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Today i visited a local group for trans-people for the first time. 

 

We were just chatting for a couple of hours and now it feels quite liberating that others in my hometown share my feelings.

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nerdperson777
On 2/6/2020 at 4:30 PM, Bloc said:

I am definitely femme not gender neutral. What I definitely don't want is a nullyfying surgery. Having neither a penis nor a clit would be a nightmare to me. I like masturbation to much for it. It is that erections make me dysphoric if I don't take extra effort put them out of the way when I am with a partner, so having a vulva with a working clit is so much more appealing at the moment. If I didn't had to worry about erections maybe I would be more comfortable with having a penis. I'm not sure if the risks of surgery would be worth it and you don't get access to surgeries here without HRT. Also I would want to see the effects of HRT First before deciding about surgeries. It would be different if there would be a magical pill which would give me a vulva without any risk for medical complications.

I know someone who takes just a T blocker to lower libido.  They like to wear dresses and have long hair.  It's possible that you can lower your libido enough to not get erections?

 

17 hours ago, Starbogen said:

Yeah exactly. If I had been born male I probably would have just thought I was a guy who was pretty indifferent to being a man. Which I mean is pretty much how I feel now but if I had been amab the term cisgenderless could have applied to me.

I think I would be the same.  I'm not really sure how I'd feel about having a penis as I'm currently kind of indifferent.  I don't have one, so how would I know?  If I had one, I'm not sure if I'd go through all the effort to get rid of it.  But I might end up with way more body hair than I want.  I'm used to not being all that hairy, and even now on T, all the hair feels more like a distraction if anything.  I also wouldn't know certain things that I could only know from being trans.  Like I'm still not attracted to anyone, but the T has given me dirtier thoughts.  That makes me think that if people still had attractions, but we took hormones out of the equation, the interactions could be quite different without the thoughts being as dirty.

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Janus the Fox
10 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I know someone who takes just a T blocker to lower libido.  They like to wear dresses and have long hair.  It's possible that you can lower your libido enough to not get erections?

Is my ideal course of treatment in my own transition, not for the reason to lower libido, that’s already low as is.  I’d like to remove some male features first and possibly see how I feel with E.  I’ve read it lowers or converts the libido into something more fitting with the bodies changes.

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nerdperson777
7 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Is my ideal course of treatment in my own transition, not for the reason to lower libido, that’s already low as is.  I’d like to remove some male features first and possibly see how I feel with E.  I’ve read it lowers or converts the libido into something more fitting with the bodies changes.

I guess I assumed lowering libido would make the erections go away or at least be less frequent.

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9 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

I’d like to remove some male features first and possibly see how I feel with E.

I've really enjoyed the emotional changes with hormonal transition & fully believe that there must be a lot of people that would be happier in the "other hormonal state" – setting aside the physiological changes. So I think "see how I feel" is a really valid thing to want to try!

Which is a wild thing to reflect on! Wondering how many people would just be... happier people, if their body had the other hormonal state.

(People be like "yeah yeah that's because you're relieved of dysphoria" but honestly I think emotions used to be a lot more raw and painful for me. It's very hard to prove!)

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One day I will have the bravery to just walk outside in the middle of the day dressed as myself and just live for once.

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1 hour ago, Kimmie. said:

One day I will have the bravery to just walk outside in the middle of the day dressed as myself and just live for once.

I wish that for both you and me :) (and everyone here in the same boat)

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22 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I wish that for both you and me :) (and everyone here in the same boat)

Thanks and the same.

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My mom has been slipping up on pronouns a lot more the last couple of days and I finally corrected her one time.

It's still weird that after all this time of being scared of bringing up anything with my family they're making an effoet to do better and I'm actually totally free to correct them now. I almost never do it though because idk, I've lost all faith and trust in them when it comes to that. I gave up on caring a long time ago so now when they mess up my pronouns I'm honestly not surprised and I'm just grateful when they get them right.

 

But maybe I should start correcting them more because it's really weird and annoying to be hearing two sets of pronouns all the time. Like before it fucking sucked because they always used the wrong pronouns but at least it was a consistent kind of hell that I was used to and numb to. But now I never know what to expect, one moment I feel really good that she used male pronouns and then the next I get the metaphorical slap to the face of female pronouns and then later I feel weird when I hear male pronouns again because I'm so disoriented if that makes sense. I feel like that inconsistency kinda makes me feel unstable in my own identity in a way that being misgendered all the time didn't even make me feel. The fact that they're at least trying is a great change and I definitely prefer this to that but it's still uncomfortable in a different way that I hadn't expected. 

Has anyone else experienced this sort of feeling when people who are new to changing the pronouns they use for you keep switching every now and then? 

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I haven't asked anyone who knows to use the right pronouns yet, and I think I need to be more fully out to do that, but I do hope some people will do it.
On interesting about being french is that it's not just how others talk about me but also how I talk as well, because a lot of adjectives and stuff change depending on gender. I used to not like that everything was gendered in french, but now it makes me see opportunity for some self-expression :P

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1 hour ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I haven't asked anyone who knows to use the right pronouns yet, and I think I need to be more fully out to do that, but I do hope some people will do it.
On interesting about being french is that it's not just how others talk about me but also how I talk as well, because a lot of adjectives and stuff change depending on gender. I used to not like that everything was gendered in french, but now it makes me see opportunity for some self-expression :P

Yep same with Spanish. I spent years dancing around the gendered endings of words for myself because my family was really unsupportive and would get upset if I used male pronouns, so I'd just say those words in English. I've been freely using the Spanish male endings for a while now but I'm honestly still not used to it, especially when other people keep using the wrong ones.. it's very frustrating. 

I honestly prefer the neutrality of English when it comes to that stuff. 

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5 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I haven't asked anyone who knows to use the right pronouns yet, and I think I need to be more fully out to do that, but I do hope some people will do it.
On interesting about being french is that it's not just how others talk about me but also how I talk as well, because a lot of adjectives and stuff change depending on gender. I used to not like that everything was gendered in french, but now it makes me see opportunity for some self-expression :P

The same in German. Which makes it complicated to speak about non-binary people. XYZ is the friend person of ABC. Because friend only comes in a male and female version. Or you have to speak in a way where you avoid using nouns and pronouns for the person. What makes it really hard is that you can't use relative clauses because there is no equivalent to who/whose/whom in German, you have to use der/dessen/dem/den or die/deren/der/die for male or female persons respectively.

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nerdperson777
7 hours ago, Starbogen said:

My mom has been slipping up on pronouns a lot more the last couple of days and I finally corrected her one time.

It's still weird that after all this time of being scared of bringing up anything with my family they're making an effoet to do better and I'm actually totally free to correct them now. I almost never do it though because idk, I've lost all faith and trust in them when it comes to that. I gave up on caring a long time ago so now when they mess up my pronouns I'm honestly not surprised and I'm just grateful when they get them right.

 

But maybe I should start correcting them more because it's really weird and annoying to be hearing two sets of pronouns all the time. Like before it fucking sucked because they always used the wrong pronouns but at least it was a consistent kind of hell that I was used to and numb to. But now I never know what to expect, one moment I feel really good that she used male pronouns and then the next I get the metaphorical slap to the face of female pronouns and then later I feel weird when I hear male pronouns again because I'm so disoriented if that makes sense. I feel like that inconsistency kinda makes me feel unstable in my own identity in a way that being misgendered all the time didn't even make me feel. The fact that they're at least trying is a great change and I definitely prefer this to that but it's still uncomfortable in a different way that I hadn't expected. 

Has anyone else experienced this sort of feeling when people who are new to changing the pronouns they use for you keep switching every now and then? 

I get it.  I sometimes think it's because my family is Chinese and verbally, all the pronouns sound exactly the same.  It's just that when it's written that it's a different word.  So anyone can be a he one moment, and she in another.  They still gender me wrong like 90% of the time, so sometimes I just take whatever he gets said.  My cousin learned new terminology so she said that everyone is genderfluid, if we base it on my parents' pronoun usage.  There was a time a couple years ago that I mentioned before.  I was at the airport, going back to university.  My dad said, "be a good girl..boy..girl."  I didn't realize it was possible to be misgendered twice in the same phrase.  IT'S WORSE THAN IF YOU STUCK WITH THE ORIGINAL ONE.  But I'm used to people just using he/him for me since no one actually uses they.  In my apartment, we have each of he/she/they so I'm the he to make things easier.  At work, I'm a he for binary situations.  One friend just called me they once at her birthday party, don't know if anyone noticed, or if even she noticed.

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On 2/13/2020 at 2:11 AM, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I haven't asked anyone who knows to use the right pronouns yet, and I think I need to be more fully out to do that, but I do hope some people will do it.
On interesting about being french is that it's not just how others talk about me but also how I talk as well, because a lot of adjectives and stuff change depending on gender. I used to not like that everything was gendered in french, but now it makes me see opportunity for some self-expression :P

I haven't either, and not gendering myself IRL is so hard! French is a gender minefield, English is much better in that regard; Russian has a neutral grammatical gender, which is so cool, but it's also very gendered. 

I'm out to one friend, so I can try using ungendered phrases for myself with them (mostly via text) and they sometimes do so too, which is awesome. It's difficult but funny, we often engage in what I call 'grammatical creativity' :P

Being forced to misgender myself after that feels worse than usual, though. 

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I saw in the irish times an interview with a couple who are both trans, as this week there is a documentary about them on irish language station tg4

 

https://eile.ie/2020/02/09/irish-trans-couple-tras-documentary-tg4/

Irish times article is online for subscribers only

 

Anyway I put the documentary to record

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Calligraphette_Coe

I didn't want to draw too much attention by making this a thread of its own, but this is something that nags at me without end? The Posting-While-Trans part of putting a gender marker in your profile-- in my case, as far as I know past the DES/ androgynous situation, I'm more AMAB than not in the way I'm forced to present and live my life. 

 

Is it morally wrong or dishonest in a safe space like AVEN to put "Female" as your gender if you look even androgynously XY but haven't or can't transition? I don't want to deceive anyone and I don't want to cause any scenes or make anyone uncomfortable. I don't date at all, I'm a sexually repulsed asexual and I NEVER go into any spaces that are designated strictly binary. Being able to do this and not violate any rules certainly does help with my dysphoria, and it feels soooo wrong having to be old What's-His-Name every day in the 'real' 3D world. So it's a like a Gordian Knot-- damned if you do, damned if you don't, but cutting the knot and going with the F marker seems the way out of the dilemma. But is it? Really? 

 

I guess what got me thinking about this again was reading an article where a lesbian was sexually assaulted by someone who posed as being gay, but wasn't. He gained her trust and then used a ruse to lure her into a vulnerable situation. Knowing this happened makes me feel terrible-- as someone who was sexually assaulted myself-and I don't know that to do to make the world safe against something like this happening. It doesn't seem enough to just implore the universe "How can things like this be allowed to happen????"

 

How much disclosure is required and how much is allowed to protect _my_ safety?

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32 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Is it morally wrong or dishonest in a safe space like AVEN to put "Female" as your gender if you look even androgynously XY but haven't or can't transition?

I don't think so, no.. Your gender is what it is whether you're out, or have transitioned, or can do it at all, or not. If you're female but you can't express that in your daily life that doesn't make you "not female".

Think about it from another perspective, like for example a gay person who has to live as straight for fear of the consequences.. they're still gay, so if they were in a safe space where they could call themselves gay it'd be totally valid and authentic for them to do so even though in their daily "real" life they were "straight in practice", if that makes sense. 

 

It's horrible that there are people who do shit like that and deceive people to abuse them, but you being yourself has nothing to do with that you know? You're forced to live a certain way because of your circumstances but that doesn't make you a "man pretending to be female" it just makes you a trans woman who isn't able to come out irl or transition. But if you have safe space online or otherwise where you can freely call yourself female then there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying you're female and not even specifying you're trans or whatever if you don't want to.

 

I haven't transitioned medically or legally, so in a biological and legal way I'm still considered "female", but whenever I'm asked my gender and not my sex I just put male, like here, because I can and want to and it is what it is even if I haven't transitioned as much as I want to yet. (I also always sign my real name instead of my birthname on official stuff.. like you know, I have to write my legal name in print but when it comes to signing I say fuck it and write my name, and I don't consider that wrong either... no one has noticed or said anything at least X'D). Also, there's been several times when I've had to fill out documents at like a doctor's office or something and some of the papers ask just what your sex is but then others also ask your gender. I always ask to make sure that that's what they're really asking and that they're not just using sex and gender interchangeably, and the response I've always gotten to that is basically "oh yeah, just whatever you identify as", so then I gladly and freely mark male. Anyway my point with that is just that even in a real life, official, professional setting there's still a lot of people and systems that understand that some people's sex and gender aren't alligned and they don't consider it wrong or dishonest for someone to be classified as one thing in some areas but openly identify as something else.. so yeah idk just put whatever you're comfortable with you know?

Sorry for the rambling response..

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17 hours ago, Starbogen said:

I haven't transitioned medically or legally, so in a biological and legal way I'm still considered "female", but whenever I'm asked my gender and not my sex I just put male, like here, because I can and want to and it is what it is even if I haven't transitioned as much as I want to yet. (I also always sign my real name instead of my birthname on official stuff.. like you know, I have to write my legal name in print but when it comes to signing I say fuck it and write my name, and I don't consider that wrong either... no one has noticed or said anything at least X'D). Also, there's been several times when I've had to fill out documents at like a doctor's office or something and some of the papers ask just what your sex is but then others also ask your gender. I always ask to make sure that that's what they're really asking and that they're not just using sex and gender interchangeably, and the response I've always gotten to that is basically "oh yeah, just whatever you identify as", so then I gladly and freely mark male. Anyway my point with that is just that even in a real life, official, professional setting there's still a lot of people and systems that understand that some people's sex and gender aren't alligned and they don't consider it wrong or dishonest for someone to be classified as one thing in some areas but openly identify as something else.. so yeah idk just put whatever you're comfortable with you know?

Sorry for the rambling response..

I usually only write my initials when signing stuff. My birthname also begins with an A.

 

There are many times when you have to specify your gender, like in surveys, and I can't understand why that is interesting. Why is it interesting to separate gender in surveys etc? Why isn't it interesting to separate hair or eye colour?

 

Anyway, I almost always choose 'woman' in such situations. Recently it's become quite common with some kind of non-binary choise. I pick that whenever possible. I never choose male, even if I'm Amab.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Andrea KF said:

I usually only write my initials when signing stuff. My birthname also begins with an A.

My name has a different initial from my birthname but it has enough of the same letters and similar letter combinations that usually if I scribbled it and someone squinted they could convince themselves it said my birthname, but nope lol

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23 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

but cutting the knot and going with the F marker seems the way out of the dilemma. But is it? Really? 

Seems to be, yes :) 

Do it. You're not deceiving anyone. It's not at all dishonest to put 'female' if you are a trans woman. It's the truth, in fact.

 

I think that it's not your job to 'warn' people that you are trans. Some people just are trans, and people have to just accept that there's a possibility they are talking to a trans person when they're talking to someone they don't know well.

 

Sure, you should probably tell people about this aspect of yourself when you date them, but since you don't, that's not an issue.

 

I understand that this fear you have of deceiving people comes from societal transphobia that portrays trans women as predatory, but I just wish you could see that as the bullshit it is. Easier said than done of course, but I still think it would help you a lot ❤️

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Urgh I'm gonna vent a bit about a couple of things..

So the first is that this morning I was kinda going back and forth about something and everyone got frustrated with me and at one point my brother made a reference to my lower parts (sounds weird I know, and it was, but it made more sense in context, anyway long story), but yeah so he called that by the name for female parts and fucking hell the dysphoria ugh

But later I told him that that word, and others like it, in reference to my body made me uncomfortable as fuck and that I never used them and would aopreciate it if no one fucking called anything on my body by female terms either (with the exception of doctors if it was necessary) and after talking about it a bit he seemed to understand where I was coming from and that it wasn't just that I was "denying reality". Like fuck that was frustrating and shitty but in the end it seemed like he agreed to respect my feelings at least.. Two years ago he would have totally bullied me and intentionally said more shit to make me feel worse if I had tried talking to him about being trans like that. So yeah, progress.

 

The other thing is that my mom has been slipping on pronouns soooo much. Like basically she calls me female pronouns almost all the time, but then she's also been correcting herself a lot, so it's like I'll hear her call me by fem terms and then immediately by male ones and it's kinda disorienting to say the least. I don't even know how to feel about it at this point.. On one hand it sucks that she keeps slipping up so often but on the other I can see that she's actually trying and I really appreciate that. So yeah I'm not upset at her or anything, I'm actually more lowkey impressed since this is so different from just less than a year ago. But personally, it's quite frustrating to hear pronouns being switched around for me all the time and never being able to feel like things are stable and reliable and in a way "real" on that front, if that makes sense?

I don't wanna be ungrateful cause tbh I never expected my family to change this much ever or this soon but it's just a really strange thing to deal with in a way I'm not used to.. Before at least they were consistently wrong and I could consistently tell myself "nope, you're wrong". But now they get it right sometimes, wrong sometimes, both in the same sentence, and it makes me feel kinda like less of a concrete person. 

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nerdperson777
On 2/29/2020 at 4:07 PM, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Is it morally wrong or dishonest in a safe space like AVEN to put "Female" as your gender if you look even androgynously XY but haven't or can't transition? I don't want to deceive anyone and I don't want to cause any scenes or make anyone uncomfortable. I don't date at all, I'm a sexually repulsed asexual and I NEVER go into any spaces that are designated strictly binary. Being able to do this and not violate any rules certainly does help with my dysphoria, and it feels soooo wrong having to be old What's-His-Name every day in the 'real' 3D world. So it's a like a Gordian Knot-- damned if you do, damned if you don't, but cutting the knot and going with the F marker seems the way out of the dilemma. But is it? Really? 

 

How much disclosure is required and how much is allowed to protect _my_ safety?

Not at all.  It asks for your gender, not gender expression.  There are a lot of people who can't pass as their desired gender, but it doesn't make their genders any less valid.  

 

You get to choose how much you get to disclose.  Some people are trans-friendly and it's kind of hard to tell who is and who isn't.  If you think someone can be trusted, go for it.  But I personally am a cautious person, so I'm usually going on the side of not disclosing, but of course my situation is different from yours.  I pass as male despite not being that assigned at birth, meaning that I don't get misgendered most of the time.

 

10 hours ago, Starbogen said:

My name has a different initial from my birthname but it has enough of the same letters and similar letter combinations that usually if I scribbled it and someone squinted they could convince themselves it said my birthname, but nope lol

I kept my initials.  My name is the closest to "genderbending", as I don't have a direct one.  I know a guy who changed from Jessica to Jesse.  That's an easy change, but I don't get to have that.  When I was at school, even if people heard the "genderbent" name, they would've probably thought they heard wrong because of how similar they were.  I may have changed my identity legally, but I haven't figured out what to do with my signature.  It's still my old signature and I have less common letters in the new one, so I'm not sure what to do with that, as I'm not comfortable with that yet.

 

5 hours ago, Starbogen said:

Urgh I'm gonna vent a bit about a couple of thing..

So the first is that this morning I was kinda going back and forth about something and everyone got frustrated with me and at one point my brother made a reference to my lower parts (sounds weird I know, and it was, but it made more sense in context, anyway long story), but yeah so he called that by the name for female parts and fucking hell the dysphoria ugh

But later I told him that that word, and others like it, in reference to my body made me uncomfortable as fuck and that I never used them and would aopreciate it if no one fucking called anything on my body by female terms either (with the exception of doctors if it was necessary) and after talking about it a bit he seemed to understand where I was coming from and that it wasn't just that I was "denying reality". Like fuck that was frustrating and shitty but in the end it seemed like he agreed to respect my feelings at least.. Two years ago he would have totally bullied me and intentionally said more shit to make me feel worse if I had tried talking to him about being trans like that. So yeah, progress.

 

The other thing is that my mom has been slipping on pronouns soooo much. Like basically she calls me female pronouns almost all the time, but then she's also been correcting herself a lot, so it's like I'll hear her call me by fem terms and then immediately by male ones and it's kinda disorienting to say the least. I don't even know how to feel about it at this point.. On one hand it sucks that she keeps slipping up so often but on the other I can see that she's actually trying and I really appreciate that. So yeah I'm not upset at her or anything, I'm actually more lowkey impressed since this is so different from just less than a year ago. But personally, it's quite frustrating to hear pronouns being switched around for me all the time and never being able to feel like things are stable and reliable and in a way "real" on that front, if that makes sense?

I don't wanna be ungrateful cause tbh I never expected my family to change this much ever or this soon but it's just a really strange thing to deal with in a way I'm not used to.. Before at least they were consistently wrong and I could consistently tell myself "nope, you're wrong". But now they get it right sometimes, wrong sometimes, both in the same sentence, and it makes me feel kinda like less of a concrete person. 

My mom did that once.  We were playing with our dog and she just happened to jump onto her hind legs and the front legs came down onto my crotch.  My mom laughed and said that I got attacked in the pussy.  I'm not dysphoric about my genitals, but I prefer to refer to them with neutral terms.  I don't want a penis so I wouldn't call my crotch my penis.  I just rather say crotch, as it's way more neutral.  But I didn't like it when she said pussy.  I don't mind uterus, as it doesn't sound gendered to me.  Vagina still has that stigma to me, and plus many people use it for sex so I prefer to stay away from it.

 

At least your parents try.  My parents said that they would but I haven't seen the effort.  Everyone else who I've told already made the change.  My parents didn't even change my name in their phone contact lists so I get to see that whenever I look at their phones.  No one can use the excuse that it isn't my legal name, when it is now.  They're lawful people so they acknowledge that it is my legal name, since they can't dispute that, but they won't use it socially.  

 

 

 

My parents were watching America's Got Talent a couple weeks ago.  There was this man who sang in high and low pitches.  He used a song I've used myself and posted in this forum.  From what I was hearing, he wasn't even doing falsetto.  His voice could sound like a legit cis female.  That has been my goal but this guy did it.  The fact that he used my chosen song, I wonder what that says about me, since this was an assumed cis guy and the people on the show gendered his voice as male and female.  Someone accomplished my dream of "both" authentic, cis sounding voices.

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I kind of want to bring my girl stuff to the Stockholm meetup. But I am still a bit afraid.

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SithAzathoth WinterDragon

I want to get more of a masculine hair cut. I will have to let my hair grow then.....

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5 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I kind of want to bring my girl stuff to the Stockholm meetup. But I am still a bit afraid.

I imagine you'd have a lot of support.

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On 3/3/2020 at 12:10 AM, daveb said:

I imagine you'd have a lot of support.

Yeah maybe I should, but I am planning to pack light so I don't have to bring more bags then my messenger bag. I will have to think about it. But something I will do is shopping!

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I wore some new joggers today that are tighter than my usual ones and like.. on one hand I hate my hips and but area but on the other the rest of my legs looks very nice actually XD

 

The weight I've gained lately isn't so bad though. I do like that my arms are noticeably a bit ticker. But for me the weight redistribution is definitely one of the things I'm looking forward to the most about HRT. I especially want more weight/muscle/bulk in like my back/torso area? Because my waist looks naturally pretty flat from the front but when I turn sideways there's a more visible feminine-looking curve, even though my butt isn't that big, and I hate that.. 

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Looking for a new bra with removable inserts that is not a sports bra. I find one but looking for them make me feel like shit because i so much wish i did not need the inserts.

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Is it weird that my whole.. evolution or whatever with gender expression so far has been like.. so I'm afab, and I started out presenting as neutral as I could as soon I could choose my own clothes. Then when I realized I could also just get things from the boys' section I went for that. For the last four plus years since I came out I've been presenting totally typically masculine because it made me feel better and more like myself... but now I want to do a lot of things to have a more androgynous look and the only reason I don't do it is because presenting 100% masculinely is necessary for me to pass. So yeah it's this weird situation where I've been trying to look more masculine my whole life through stuff like clothes but as soon as I can make my actual body/face look more male I know I'm gonna add a lot of feminine elements to my look and play around with that X'D 

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anisotrophic
3 minutes ago, Starbogen said:

as I can make my actual body/face look more male I know I'm gonna add a lot of feminine elements to my look and play around with that X'D

It's so real! Definitely look forward to it!! 🙂 I got my ears re-pierced a couple months ago,  I'm going to replace the studs with hoops that should arrive soon. I started wearing occasional pendants. It's like... finally I can do those things and not feel like I have to reject them.

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