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kiaroskuro
22 hours ago, Float On said:

Am I still transgender if I don’t transition and socially identify as my born gender?

Difficult to answer, I suppose it depends on how you define transgender. I for one don't socially identify as my AGAB at all, but I have no physical dysphoria. Which kind of leaves me in  a weird limbo between cis and trans. But that's my own interpretation, other people might ascribe more importance to either the body aspect or the social role, and view me as either cis or trans.

Tbh I've never heard of someone who socially identifies as their AGAB yet calls themselves trans. How do you define transgender? For yourself?

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binary suns
6 minutes ago, kiaroskuro said:

. How do you define transgender? For yourself?

I don’t know. I wish I had been born different, but transition would depress me so I don’t do it.

 

 Maybe it’s better if I make a post about it in stead of hiding here

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On 5/31/2020 at 4:34 PM, Float On said:

Am I still transgender if I don’t transition and socially identify as my born gender?

If you identify as a gender other than your gender assigned at birth and just don't transition (particularly medically) because you either can't or just don't want to then yes..

But what exactly do you mean by socially identifying as your born gender? If you mean that personally, privately, you think of yourself as a gender that doesn't allign with your sex/is not your assigned gender at birth but due to circumstances it's easier/safer/etc to continue presenting as your agab to other people for the time being then yes.. but otherwise I would have to say no, imo, because if you personally identified as your assigned gender at birth and you don't want to transition in any way that would affect the way you live socially then what would make you trans? 

(Just in case, I don't wanna offend or make anyone feel like I'm invalidating their feelings or identity I'm just saying my opinion and asking for more information and clarification).

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nerdperson777
3 hours ago, kiaroskuro said:

Difficult to answer, I suppose it depends on how you define transgender. I for one don't socially identify as my AGAB at all, but I have no physical dysphoria. Which kind of leaves me in  a weird limbo between cis and trans. But that's my own interpretation, other people might ascribe more importance to either the body aspect or the social role, and view me as either cis or trans.

Tbh I've never heard of someone who socially identifies as their AGAB yet calls themselves trans. How do you define transgender? For yourself?

I have my friend who I think is cis-genderless, even though she says gender non-conforming.  She doesn't have any dysphoria to my knowledge.  She accepts any pronoun.  When she was in grad school, she said she attended one meeting at the university's LGBT center and she found it interesting being called he.  I once read about like a political identity, perhaps that is what she has.  It was something like she doesn't politically identify as female?  She didn't actually say these things, but I thought of it after reading an article about involving politics.  But it could just be logical thinking on her part.  Periods are inconvenient, I think that's all she said about it.  She enjoys being almost flat, but the last time we mentioned boobs, she said that she likes having small boobs.  (I think last time I was with her, I noticed that mine were actually even smaller than her after exercising on T.)  For actual political stuff, I'd say logically that feminine identified people will want more rights and not be suppressed.  She would go to feminine groups (like women in [something] and call herself one just fine.  We got along because we were both not that feminine, as we both just wore t-shirts all the time, never dresses, although she loved dresses when she was 5.  She said when puberty happened, she stopped understanding when people changed.  The ace part was understandable, not understanding why people were interested in relationships.  I never really asked, but maybe she feels like me, the perfect body would've been just never going through puberty.  Of course, I'm glad I had top surgery, but if I was just flat and never had boobs in the first place, that would've been better.  

 

1 hour ago, Starbogen said:

If you identify as a gender other than your gender assigned at birth and just don't transition (particularly medically) because you either can't or just don't want to then yes..

But what exactly do you mean by socially identifying as your born gender? If you mean that personally, privately, you think of yourself as a gender that doesn't allign with your sex/is not your assigned gender at birth but due to circumstances it's easier/safer/etc to continue presenting as your agab to other people for the time being then yes.. but otherwise I would have to say no, imo, because if you personally identified as your assigned gender at birth and you don't want to transition in any way that would affect the way you live socially then what would make you trans? 

(Just in case, I don't wanna offend or make anyone feel like I'm invalidating their feelings or identity I'm just saying my opinion and asking for more information and clarification).

Sometimes it's hard to tell what you want to be from who you'd settle and be content as.  I said once there was this person at school, they were AMAB and kind of feminine.  From what I noticed, I would've just thought this is a trans girl.  When asked if they wanted to be seen as a girl or non-binary, the answer was "let's be real, no one is going to see me as a girl."  To me that sounded more like settling for non-binary when you don't think you can pass.  But often with gender, it can be hard to distinguish what you want to be and what people want you to be.

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binary suns
2 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I said once there was this person at school, they were AMAB and kind of feminine.  From what I noticed, I would've just thought this is a trans girl.  When asked if they wanted to be seen as a girl or non-binary, the answer was "let's be real, no one is going to see me as a girl."  To me that sounded more like settling for non-binary when you don't think you can pass. 

This is basically me

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nerdperson777
7 hours ago, Float On said:

This is basically me

Then you must be a girl, right?

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binary suns
5 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

Then you must be a girl, right?

I don’t live as one tho

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2 hours ago, Float On said:

I don’t live as one tho

Someone can still be trans without actively presently living as their gender though. Being trans just means they don't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth and that corresponds with their sex. So for example if someone's amab and they currently live as male but personally they don't identify as male and wish they could be seen and live as a different gender, then imo that makes them trans. 

But obviously the person is the one who ultimately decides what to label their feelings as, if anything.. I guess it gets more complicated when someone does wish deep down that things could be different but at the same time they're so sure they can't be that they also have no desire to actively change anything. 

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binary suns
8 minutes ago, Starbogen said:

.. I guess it gets more complicated when someone does wish deep down that things could be different but at the same time they're so sure they can't be that they also have no desire to actively change anything. 

This is where I’m at. I lived as female but it was depressing because every stranger saw me male anyway. I don’t have any desire to wear makeup or super feminine clothes and I was fearful of surgery I knew I needed it to pass but I’m against it anyway.

 

Even among friends I felt fake and anxious and it was so hard. So I decided I had to be male to be okay with life. I’m doing better now but I’m still depressed for other reasons. I just wish I had be born a girl.... but the way I am I know I’d never feel authentic if I transitioned. At least I can accept my life as it is. I wish it were different but I’m resigned to be male.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Float On said:

This is where I’m at. I lived as female but it was depressing because every stranger saw me male anyway. I don’t have any desire to wear makeup or super feminine clothes and I was fearful of surgery I knew I needed it to pass but I’m against it anyway.

 

Even among friends I felt fake and anxious and it was so hard. So I decided I had to be male to be okay with life. I’m doing better now but I’m still depressed for other reasons. I just wish I had be born a girl.... but the way I am I know I’d never feel authentic if I transitioned. At least I can accept my life as it is. I wish it were different but I’m resigned to be male.

 

 

Hmm yeah that sounds complicated and now I get more where your question was coming from...

There are more options besides being conventionally binary trans or living as conventionally cis though. 

If living as a trans girl doesn't feel authentic for you have you thought about seeing how you'd feel with other identities like demigirl or genderqueer or nb or just not labeling it? That way you might be living as male on the outside but without the pressure of calling yourself that on the inside, if that makes sense. 

 

There's also ways to change your presentation in a way that doesn't include medical transition so that even if people don't see you as female it'd still make certain people think twice before just assuming you were male. Maybe not the average person, but people who know about gender stuff like us for example. 

Though I'm aware that's a lot harder and riskier and sometimes just not doable for amab people than it is for afab people sorry, just trying to help somehow..

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nerdperson777

I can see how it can be discouraging.  Nothing feels like it's getting better and everything is just stuck in a rut.  It's easy to just give up.  Change is hard but don't give up.  A suggestion can be to go out and find a mentor, or someone experienced to guide you.  I was lucky to find out that the person I came out to was actually trans but didn't tell me, and then at school, there was a queer mentorship program to facilitate bonding.  Sometimes you can just feel lost and just need someone to point you in the right direction.

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Calligraphette_Coe
7 hours ago, Float On said:

This is where I’m at. I lived as female but it was depressing because every stranger saw me male anyway. I don’t have any desire to wear makeup or super feminine clothes and I was fearful of surgery I knew I needed it to pass but I’m against it anyway.

 

Even among friends I felt fake and anxious and it was so hard. So I decided I had to be male to be okay with life. I’m doing better now but I’m still depressed for other reasons. I just wish I had be born a girl.... but the way I am I know I’d never feel authentic if I transitioned. At least I can accept my life as it is. I wish it were different but I’m resigned to be male.

 

 

I've been in out of the hospital for the last month, and the very thing I was warned might happen if I took hormones, has happened. At least I was given some hopeful news lately, and I might yet make it through this. But I lie in bed a lot of nights wondering if tomorrow will be the day the hammer drops. And I keeping having these regrets that I never got to go further with transition. It gnaws at me at a time when other things are gnawing at me with sharper teeth. And I ask myself and the universe, how can something that is such exquisite torture be fake? How can the pain  NOT be authentic? And why now, of all times, can I not similarly resign myself to being cis, to give into chromosonal gender?

 

But I can't, even in this place of doubt and fear and terror and regret, and the pain of identity denied.

 

Because I can't. THAT for me would be giving up the ghost and losing my identity and becoming unauthentic instead of facing my fate with composure. I know how people have seen me, in fact many still see me, and I don't know if that was on either side of androgyny. But it seems to me what I was denied doesn't subtract from what I _am_. And always will be. Trans until the end. Knowing that this shell is only skin deep, that it was the devil of DES that can't be undone and in that there is no shame  even if there is no reprieve. 

 

I remember the character Valerie's letter in the movie V for Vendetta.

 

Quote

But it was my integrity that was important. Is that so selfish? It sells for so little, but it's all we have left in this place. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch we are free. 

I shall die here. Every last inch of me shall perish. Except one.

An inch. It's small and it's fragile and it's the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Float On said:

I don’t live as one tho

That's rough.

 

*offers a hug, if you want one*

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Calligraphette_Coe
14 hours ago, Karst said:

@Calligraphette_Coe, I can pray for you, if you like.

Thank you, Karst. I believe prayers are thoughts for intercessions on the behalfs of others, and some moments, I feel like I need all the help I can get.

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It feels hard and scary in many different ways. My view is that if I don't try to be myself, I might as well give up on everything else, because what's the point in growing older then?

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@Karst I've heard of stuff with celestial bodies, but elements is new to me.

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55 minutes ago, Laurann said:

@Karst I've heard of stuff with celestial bodies, but elements is new to me.

Same here.  This is the first time I've heard of it.

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no-longer-in-use
On 6/6/2020 at 12:37 PM, Karst said:

Has anyone ever heard of this?

 

https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Element_System

 

I came across it while wiki browsing, and I'm not sure if people are actually using this?

I have! It's pretty cool. I guess according to that I'm a ferrian? Or perhaps a vitrian. I struggle to understand the difference between "undefined" and "neutral".

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Interference
On 6/7/2020 at 2:37 AM, Karst said:

Has anyone ever heard of this?

 

https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Element_System

 

I came across it while wiki browsing, and I'm not sure if people are actually using this?

judging by that i'd probably be telluvian. though i don't feel neutrally-gendered, i don't feel genders.

 

eh, tomatoes potatoes.

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DarkStormyKnight

That's a pretty wild idea, but I'm happy that mine would probably align with my Avatar element, earth. :)

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They don't seem to have an element for 'I have no gender.' Maybe then you're just one of the non-benders and you get an electric glove or a boomerang, who knows.

 

I think I'd probably be Earth too. I like the water element better in Avatar tbh.

 

On 6/9/2020 at 6:24 AM, Coddiwomple said:

"undefined" and "neutral"

I interpreted it as the one meaning neutrois and the other meaning genderfluid or quoigender.

Dunno though, could be wrong.

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nerdperson777

Ooh, Avatar?  I've learned all four elements IRL.  I specialize in water at a school that is mostly fire.  People learn basic earth as part of the curriculum but not too many people do that either.  We have maybe 4 people that do air, a few more water people.  I've been told by energy seekers that my spirit's element is fire or earth when I thought I was tranquil like water.  I am apparently more troubled than I look.  But my goal has been to learn all the elements anyway.  I definitely haven't mastered anything yet though.

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no-longer-in-use
On 6/11/2020 at 12:10 PM, Laurann said:

I interpreted it as the one meaning neutrois and the other meaning genderfluid or quoigender.

Dunno though, could be wrong.

Yeah, it's probably something like that. What I meant was I have trouble discerning the difference for myself, i.e. analyzing my own gender to figure out whether my gender is neutral, undefined, or both.

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nerdperson777
1 hour ago, Coddiwomple said:

Yeah, it's probably something like that. What I meant was I have trouble discerning the difference for myself, i.e. analyzing my own gender to figure out whether my gender is neutral, undefined, or both.

In the beginning I felt both, but I'm slowly getting into neither.  It's no longer "I want to be both."  It's "screw gender, I do what I want."

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What ways so you guys cope with disphoria without coming out? I only have unhealthy coping skills for feelings around gender and sexuality. I really need to find better ways of coping that don't invole my parents finding out and are more healthy.

 

Thanks

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