The Asexual-Sexual Q&A Thread

[anisotrophic]

6 minutes ago, StrangeDruid said:

How does this work with flings and casual sexual relationships though? When you say love, I think of something very emotional and social.

I didn’t say it was the same as love. But yes, sex is often very emotional and inherently social, even if it’s a fling.

 

Emotional social things can involve strangers — eg helping a stranger in need, or being helped by a stranger — a social interaction that can carry strong emotions of kindness, altruism, or gratitude. Again, not equals sex, but I’m trying to explain that emotional and social doesn’t require knowing someone.

[ModestFox]

Umm… I’m sorry if this question has already been asked, I still want to try, because it’ll take me forever to read the entire thread ^ ^’ (but I’ll certainly do it sometime, something tells me it’ll be super helpful in my research).

Not really asexual, by the looks of it, but I have very little experience and very little idea about what’s going on in other people’s minds, ace and non-ace alike. Although I’ve read enough about asexual experiences to have a clearer idea about at least one side by now.

 

A question for sexuals in a relationship with compromising asexuals. I’d like to know... aside from not having sex as often as one would want, or having to avoid certain kinds of it, or feeling uneasy (as if putting pressure on them even if they seem willing to compromise), is there anything else that feels off? Anything lacking in comparison with being in a relationship with another sexual? If it’s the lack of reciprocation, how is it expressed? It’s probably hard to explain and I’m not sure what I want to hear, reading a ton of other answers would probably help better. I guess I’m interested in what feelings (actions?) are expected to be reciprocated and aren’t, because that basically seems to be the core of asexuality ^ ^’

 

I’ve only had an experience with another gray ace who seems as confused as me, and it was good enough. Nothing to really compare with, though.

[KiraS]

2 hours ago, ModestFox said:

Umm… I’m sorry if this question has already been asked, I still want to try, because it’ll take me forever to read the entire thread ^ ^’ (but I’ll certainly do it sometime, something tells me it’ll be super helpful in my research).

Not really asexual, by the looks of it, but I have very little experience and very little idea about what’s going on in other people’s minds, ace and non-ace alike. Although I’ve read enough about asexual experiences to have a clearer idea about at least one side by now.

 

A question for sexuals in a relationship with compromising asexuals. I’d like to know... aside from not having sex as often as one would want, or having to avoid certain kinds of it, or feeling uneasy (as if putting pressure on them even if they seem willing to compromise), is there anything else that feels off? Anything lacking in comparison with being in a relationship with another sexual? If it’s the lack of reciprocation, how is it expressed? It’s probably hard to explain and I’m not sure what I want to hear, reading a ton of other answers would probably help better. I guess I’m interested in what feelings (actions?) are expected to be reciprocated and aren’t, because that basically seems to be the core of asexuality ^ ^’

 

I’ve only had an experience with another gray ace who seems as confused as me, and it was good enough. Nothing to really compare with, though.

On my part, no.

[uhtred]

20 hours ago, ModestFox said:

Umm… I’m sorry if this question has already been asked, I still want to try, because it’ll take me forever to read the entire thread ^ ^’ (but I’ll certainly do it sometime, something tells me it’ll be super helpful in my research).

Not really asexual, by the looks of it, but I have very little experience and very little idea about what’s going on in other people’s minds, ace and non-ace alike. Although I’ve read enough about asexual experiences to have a clearer idea about at least one side by now.

 

A question for sexuals in a relationship with compromising asexuals. I’d like to know... aside from not having sex as often as one would want, or having to avoid certain kinds of it, or feeling uneasy (as if putting pressure on them even if they seem willing to compromise), is there anything else that feels off? Anything lacking in comparison with being in a relationship with another sexual? If it’s the lack of reciprocation, how is it expressed? It’s probably hard to explain and I’m not sure what I want to hear, reading a ton of other answers would probably help better. I guess I’m interested in what feelings (actions?) are expected to be reciprocated and aren’t, because that basically seems to be the core of asexuality ^ ^’

 

I’ve only had an experience with another gray ace who seems as confused as me, and it was good enough. Nothing to really compare with, though.

For sexuals like me where ideas of love, romance and sex are all tied together, it really doesn't work.  It makes it feel like a sort of sham-romance.  A Potempkin village, or a dry husk of a relationship. Form the outside as seen by anyone else, my wife and I are the "perfect" couple - I think we are greatly envied.  Inside - I feel like my life has no love or romance - things that matter a great deal to me.

 

Its just the way I am wired - and others of course are different. For me though sex is an inseparable part of romance, not a thing to do as one more chore to get out of the way.  Its not that we need to spend a lot of time actually having sex, but the attraction / desire is just sort of always there in the background. 

[RDIAG]

21 hours ago, ModestFox said:

A question for sexuals in a relationship with compromising asexuals. I’d like to know... aside from not having sex as often as one would want, or having to avoid certain kinds of it, or feeling uneasy (as if putting pressure on them even if they seem willing to compromise), is there anything else that feels off? Anything lacking in comparison with being in a relationship with another sexual? If it’s the lack of reciprocation, how is it expressed? It’s probably hard to explain and I’m not sure what I want to hear, reading a ton of other answers would probably help better. I guess I’m interested in what feelings (actions?) are expected to be reciprocated and aren’t, because that basically seems to be the core of asexuality ^ ^’

What "feels off" is not having a way to give my wife anything close to the intensity of pleasure I get from sexuality.  I can contribute to her happiness, and I feel loved, but I don't feel desired or - for want of a better word - needed.  And that led to decades of unnecessary self-doubt. 

 

I think you're right on the money when you say the core of the challenge is about expectations.  (You say the core of asexuality, but I think what you mean is the core of sexual/asexual relationship challenges.)  That question of feelings vs actions is good, as well.  I've had trouble giving myself permission to want reciprocated feelings, thinking that actions would be sufficient.  Engaging in sexual activities is an action, but sexual pleasure is about feeling in both senses of the word: physical and emotional.   It can't be willed into existence.  The action of compromise sex -- while definitely appreciated, especially because it's done out of love and understanding -- can still be heart-breakingly unsatisfying.

 

It's interesting to wonder whether some other form of overpowering joy could take the place of sexual joy.  Maybe humor? Cooking?  Music? These things can give intense pleasure, both physical and emotional.  There's just something instinctive in sexual people that needs shared *sexual* joy.

[KiraS]

24 minutes ago, RDIAG said:

It's interesting to wonder whether some other form of overpowering joy could take the place of sexual joy.  Maybe humor? Cooking?  Music? These things can give intense pleasure, both physical and emotional.  There's just something instinctive in sexual people that needs shared *sexual* joy.

Yeah, I don't get that.

[anisotrophic]

40 minutes ago, RDIAG said:

It's interesting to wonder whether some other form of overpowering joy could take the place of sexual joy.  Maybe humor? Cooking?  Music? These things can give intense pleasure, both physical and emotional.  There's just something instinctive in sexual people that needs shared *sexual* joy.

I would love to have reciprocity, and… I would love to be able to give joy to my spouse in other ways. (Isn't that normal? To be motivated to give someone you love joy, by whatever means? And maybe that underlies his motivation to have sex, but what can I give him?) But he doesn't seem to experience much intensity or motivation in other things, it's not that sex was an unusual gap.

And for me, what was probably missing was "feeling loved". But on reflection that was a global issue, neither caused by – nor solved by – sex. (We're working on it.)

[KiraS]

Like, I've had the kind of sex where I see stars and rainbows and puppies, and puppies with stars and rainbows and laser-beam eyes. But for me,  that's kind of like winning the big stuffed puppy at a rigged carnival game. Honestly, I have problems with pressure to reciprocate "sexual joy" because I honestly can't do that on cue. And that's been a big problem for previous partners. One reason why my relationship works is mutual respect for boundaries.

[uhtred]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:27 PM, RDIAG said:

SNIP

 

It's interesting to wonder whether some other form of overpowering joy could take the place of sexual joy.  Maybe humor? Cooking?  Music? These things can give intense pleasure, both physical and emotional.  There's just something instinctive in sexual people that needs shared *sexual* joy.

I think the problem is that for many sexual people, trying to substitute something for sex is like trying to substitute something for food when they are hungry.   Its niece, but in a different way and doesn't fill the void.    

[Centora]

This has probably been discussed before but I don't know where so...

 

As an allosexual, how is sex emotional for you?  Ex: I know how sex works from a physical and scientific viewpoint but not from a social viewpoint.  I'm aware some people have an emotional-connexion to sex and some people need their partner to sexually desire them (which is totally their right).  What does this mean, if you have sex with someone  you feel emotionally close to them?

How does someone realize they are attracted to someone and it is mutual, then start having sex?  (In my mind there would be a negotiation and planning stage, but that's me and I'm weird) Is there some sort of inherent social expectation for this type of interaction?

 

I also saw this

On 8/10/2020 at 8:25 PM, anisotrophic said:

But yes, sex is often very emotional and inherently social, even if it’s a fling.

What exactly does this mean?  Is it comparable to how people socially want to have friends or family, and many times people who don't are lonely?  So people who need sex in their lives but don't would feel lonely?

 

 

[Mountain House]

Hi @enagrom,

You can search my activity for a discussion in which I tried to explain.  I'm not sure it's a good explanation but I tried.  It's one of the very first things I did here at AVEN.  I was at the time trying to explain to my wife why sex is a "need", why it seems so important to me, and why it affects my mood so.

 

It turns out you're question is a lot like a blind person asking for a description of red.

 

I think it's great that you are asking though because one thing that seems to come out of this is an understanding by asexuals and sexuals alike that sex has a profoundly different meaning; in fact, it is the very core difference that is the asexual/sexual incompatibility that some of us struggle with.

 

[ryn2]

24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's like a super-intense version of cuddles and hugs.

(this only translates for those for whom cuddles and hugs build emotional closeness)

[ryn2]

12 minutes ago, CBC said:

Which is the vast majority of people, so.

Huh.

[Traveler40]

On 11/5/2020 at 1:38 PM, ryn2 said:

(this only translates for those for whom cuddles and hugs build emotional closeness)

I can’t imagine it not resulting in amplified closeness. How do you experience it that leads to, “huh”?  Interesting 🤔.

 

We were supposed to dive today, but conditions are terrible, so we opted for an afternoon of hugs and cuddles in lieu. It’s all closeness to the power of 10 💕. There was no sex. We slept and chatted while wrapped around each other. Neither could get physically close enough, and emotional senses were both heightened and exaggerated. I can’t imagine otherwise.

[ryn2]

6 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

How do you experience it that leads to, “huh”?

I guess I think of hugs as something you do more to comfort someone who is sad or upset.  So, sure, I might feel good about being able to help them but not in a different way than I would if I made them their favorite cocoa or verbally comforted them.

 

I also think of hugs as a greeting/farewell, one that - if it’s your idea, not something you’re doing to be polite because it’s

customary - expresses “it’s nice to see you again” or “it was good to see you” better than a handshake.

 

So (again, as the initiator, not in a polite behavior sense), I guess I see hugging as an expression of  some level of emotional closeness... not as something that feeds or builds it.

[Traveler40]

51 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I see hugging as an expression of  some level of emotional closeness... not as something that feeds or builds it.

Ah, I understand now. So how you experience that expression is the same for me in friendship and other non-romantic relationships. It holds true generally and platonically, but that’s only one form of hugging.

 

Within romantic relationships (at least for most sexuals I’d think) it stokes, feeds and builds which is all associated with desire. It’s touch between you that when lingering and leisurely awakens senses.

 

I always assumed this was given and part of why many asexual partners seem to go cold when hugged by their romantic partners and pull away. At least I read that often enough on these forums. They seem to understand it builds toward even more closeness in the form of sex and want to avoid that.

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, Traveler40 said:

They seem to understand it builds toward even more closeness in the form of sex and want to avoid that.

I’m not sure this is just an ace thing.  Plenty of people, if they are in a situation where they would prefer not to have sex with someone (whether or not they were once attracted to them, or are attracted to others... or are just very much not in the mood at that point), pull away from or are made uncomfortable by things that have previously been overtures to sex.

 

To the broader discussion, agreed that if sex builds emotional closeness for you than something you experience as sex-adjacent would likely do the same.  I just don’t think of hugs as sex-adjacent.

 

 

[Traveler40]

2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

if sex builds emotional closeness for you than something you experience as sex-adjacent would likely do the same.  I just don’t think of hugs as sex-adjacent.

 

I remember most of your story and if recalled correctly, you used to spoon and spend a lot of time hugging with your ex. The absence of that was an indication of problems in paradise, correct? There seemed to be that sex-adjacent association and understanding of build, at least within that relationship. 
 

I suppose it could happen between any couple for whatever reason: The avoidance of the build by pulling away. Regardless, it’s never a positive sign to the one being rejected. 

[Traveler40]

Also to the point, touch (specifically hugging as an expression of desire and deep attachment) is what was able to sustain me through sexless times with my lover. These are not simple hugs nor quick. They are those building hugs referred to as between lovers. It can substitute for sex to an extent, at least for me.

[ryn2]

5 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

you used to spoon and spend a lot of time hugging with your ex. The absence of that was an indication of problems in paradise, correct? There seemed to be that sex-adjacent association and understanding of build, at least within that relationship.

I don’t recall the specifics of the discussion(s?) you’re referring to but in the case of my most recent ex we used to sleep that way (and used to comfort one another with hugs).  When he stopped doing it I  did feel like he liked me less*.

 

It wasn’t sex-adjacent, though, at least for me (can’t speak for him). I was never really sexually attracted to him, not once the first time was about to get underway.  My mistake was in thinking that was fine and actually helpful/convenient, since he had persistent ED issues anyway, rather than recognizing that it was a major problem.

 

* ETA:  in a loss-of-affection sense, the same way I feel if someone who used to show they cared about me in whatever way, from really listening when they asked about my day to remembering my favorite chocolate, stops doing those things.  The issue wasn’t that there wasn’t a lack of touch; it was that he had stopped doing something he used to do to express affection.

 

So, to me it comes across as an expression of love, not as a build-up to sex.  I don’t recall hugging in general being a build-up to sex in prior relationships either, excepting naked embraces that actually took place during foreplay.

 

But the difference with this particular ex was that sex was never really welcome or desirable and that proved not to simply be a “different than before, just need to get used to it” or “learning curve” issue.  I was turned off rather than turned on.

[anisotrophic]

2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I guess I think of hugs as something you do more to comfort someone who is sad or upset.

Something that’s come up repeatedly with me/us is that when I’m upset *and* it’s related to my partner, touching/hugs from him make me *more* upset. But if I’m feeling loved & trusting already, I do like/want physical affection. That might be part of why it’s easier to routinely sleep in my own bed as a default these days — less pressure to be physically close when it’s upsetting to me.

 

... and sometimes the “main” bed has four humans in it, thank goodness for a king size mattress. (These days I’m often finding someone else got there first if I decide to switch to his bed for cuddles. 🙄) Cuddling definitely != sex when children are present.

[ryn2]

17 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

Something that’s come up repeatedly with me/us is that when I’m upset *and* it’s related to my partner, touching/hugs from him make me *more* upset.

Yes!  Get away!

 

Your sleeping experience totally makes sense framed that way.

 

Not that it has to make sense to me...  

[Mountain House]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:12 PM, Telecaster68 said:

It's like a super-intense version of cuddles and hugs.

This, then

On 11/5/2020 at 2:38 PM, ryn2 said:

(this only translates for those for whom cuddles and hugs build emotional closeness)

and then

13 hours ago, CBC said:

Which is the vast majority of people, so.

And I thought "huh?" just like @ryn2.

 

Here we are in an online place where the crowd already doesn't react like "the vast majority" and we seem confused that a physical description might not translate.  To me it seems kind of like explaining to the blind person, "Well, red is like green but more intense."  Remember, the asker is trying to understand how sex affects and is tied to emotion.

 

I wasn't going to say anything but it became a conversation.

 

For me it totally translates.  Just like @Traveler40 said and for the same reasons.

 

[ModestFox]

I’ve been wondering… is there a difference between an asexual who wants to please their partner, and a sexual who wants to do the same? Not in the sense of taking part in activities they wouldn’t do otherwise (although it could be that, too), but in a more literal, physical sense. Is there anything else behind a sexual's motivation, or any additional feelings?

[Traveler40]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:57 AM, anisotrophic said:

Something that’s come up repeatedly with me/us is that when I’m upset *and* it’s related to my partner, touching/hugs from him make me *more* upset. But if I’m feeling loved & trusting already, I do like/want physical affection.

That makes complete sense as hugging communicates acceptance (by the hugged) and care when offered as a gesture of solace. When you’re neither accepting nor in a mood to share care, not wanting touch from the source of your angst makes perfect sense.

 

Furthermore, for those in a mixed relationship devoid of routine touch, the idea of a hug may become awkward to outright unwanted across time. The continual rejection of one’s basic need for touch becomes so complete that any offered crumbs are neither wanted nor even acceptable after a point.

 

Hugs eventually lose “simple” status and are so fraught with background noise that they complicate versus heal or soothe. The gulf of pain and hurt is so vast that attempting to heal with a hug is futile. That form of accepting, in effect, dies. The point of communication becomes rather “I do not accept and am not ok with what’s happening!” No hugs.

[ryn2]

23 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

one’s basic need for touch

I think this is something I lack, in general.  While I am happy to touch others and am not personally touch-repulsed (which I think is separate from not wanting to be touched when annoyed, e.g.), I don’t seem to have this need for touch so many people are describing as #pandemiclife right now.  I haven’t hugged anyone since February and have only been briefly touched by medical professionals (and one elbow bump with a contractor) since then, and I feel neither relieved nor touch-starved.

[ModestFox]

2 hours ago, CBC said:

It's just straight-up wonderful and... joyous... to be able to do that for someone, and makes you feel really close to them, and that's a turn-on in itself.

I believe I experienced it vicariously when reading a particular sort of fanfiction a few days ago 😶 They might have exaggerated it, though, because fiction can be like that.

I even felt some of it IRL, but I can only do it if I'm comfortable with the action, don't feel pressured, and don't have to worry about doing something wrong. Well, probably like many people...

I guess I was just asking to make sure ^ ^'

Now it makes me wonder if it's right to describe asexuals as people who don't get turned on (or even get turned off, and in the mind, not body) by being in a sexual situation with anyone, but that might sound too shallow and not include the whole complexity of it, I don't know.

 

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

and I feel neither relieved nor touch-starved.

While I'm touch-starved, there's only one person right now whom I would want to hug. Otherwise, I'm not a fan, sometimes even averse.

[Sylvestra]

My impression from my friends is that most people rate everyone else according to their "attraction value" even if they do not do it in a conscious and crude way. And when there is a couple with diverging "values", they get all upset about it. (The attractive one must have low self-esteem or some issue or is stupid. The less attractive one must be manipulative or a gold digger or is "greedy".) They do not explain it like that, but they behave like that. ("Of course, he rejected her. What the hell did she expect?") I have always known that I cannot separate my judgment of someone's looks from my sympathy for them.

 

Would you agree that this automatic rating thing is a common behavior? Do you have another explanation for my observations? Do you have an automatic instinctive opinion when you see a couple whether they "deserve" each other or if someone hits on someone and it is "too good to be true"?

[dogloverrrr]

Hi everyone!

Edited November 30, 2020 by dogloverrrr

[AQuestioner]

I have what may seem like an odd thought experiment for sexual people. Hopefully this is the right place for this sort of thing.
 

First, think of a current or former partner or someone you find attractive and would like a relationship with.

 

Now think of someone of the gender you’re normally attracted to that you don’t find sexually attractive at all.

 

Now imagine your current/former/ideal partner’s consciousness is somehow transferred to the body of this person you do not find attractive. Does that change anything for you? Would knowing what you know about the person you love be enough to overcome their new appearance? Or would sex with them and your feelings for them never be the same?

 

The reason I ask is because I’ve been trying to understand my own sexuality better. I’m pretty sure I’m demisexual but I’m not positive because I get hung up on what sexual attraction actually means. Looks mean absolutely nothing to me and I always thought caring about looks was central to sexual attraction. But I am married and I enjoy and even desire sex with my husband but only with him and it took a long time to get to that point. 
 

So my answer to the question above would be that no change in physical appearance would change how I feel. My husband is my husband no matter what he looks like. But I guess my perception of sexual people is that a change like that would significantly affect how sexually attracted they were to their partner. But am I wrong about that? And if I’m not, how serious of a factor would that be? Would that be a relationship-ender?

 

Again, sorry if this isn’t the right place for this sort of question. I didn’t know where else to ask.