Need help with "the talk."

[Asexy Existentialist]

<<Also, it's cool that your wife was willing to tell you that pornography is cheating.>>

I, for one, find it extremely selfish for a spouse to deny even a visual outlet to her partner if she's unwilling to have sex with said partner. Does she have NO EMPATHY at all for your frustration and loss?

E.

Except some people don't just view it as a 'visual outlet'. To some people, it's not okay for your SO to watch other people having sex, or to see other people naked, or to become so aroused by it that they have no choice but to take off their pants and pleasure themselves furiously. You can also argue that pornography is a disgusting mockery of something that should be special. Or maybe she's against the degredation and objectification of women. If she thinks it's cheating, those are her moral views, and if he's willing to respect that, I can only applaud him vehemently. He has demonstrated nothing but love and affection for her all this time, and I, for one, find it extremely selfish and conniving of you to try to change that in any way.

At the risk of lowering the opinion of me around here, I did not stop viewing pornography. She can demand that I don't have sex with her, and she can demand that I don't have sex with other people, but she CANNOT demand that I don't have sex with myself.

I'm visual, like many men. If I fantasize w/o some sort of stimulus, I end up fantasizing about my wife. Which is painful, frustrating, depressing, and kinda masochistic. Imagine being a world-class baker but never getting to eat your products.

Would you like to add that it's only fantasy, it's not harmless, the women enjoy it and get paid for it and would leave if they wanted to, that she and other women just 'can never understand'...?

By the by, are you lying to her about it, too?

[Not-You]

<<Also, it's cool that your wife was willing to tell you that pornography is cheating.>>

I, for one, find it extremely selfish for a spouse to deny even a visual outlet to her partner if she's unwilling to have sex with said partner. Does she have NO EMPATHY at all for your frustration and loss?

E.

Except some people don't just view it as a 'visual outlet'. To some people, it's not okay for your SO to watch other people having sex, or to see other people naked, or to become so aroused by it that they have no choice but to take off their pants and pleasure themselves furiously. You can also argue that pornography is a disgusting mockery of something that should be special. Or maybe she's against the degredation and objectification of women. If she thinks it's cheating, those are her moral views, and if he's willing to respect that, I can only applaud him vehemently. He has demonstrated nothing but love and affection for her all this time, and I, for one, find it extremely selfish and conniving of you to try to change that in any way.

At the risk of lowering the opinion of me around here, I did not stop viewing pornography. She can demand that I don't have sex with her, and she can demand that I don't have sex with other people, but she CANNOT demand that I don't have sex with myself.

I'm visual, like many men. If I fantasize w/o some sort of stimulus, I end up fantasizing about my wife. Which is painful, frustrating, depressing, and kinda masochistic. Imagine being a world-class baker but never getting to eat your products.

Would you like to add that it's only fantasy, it's not harmless, the women enjoy it and get paid for it and would leave if they wanted to, that she and other women just 'can never understand'...?

By the by, are you lying to her about it, too?

I said it's not cheating. I didn't say it's not harmful. And it's my understanding that SOME women enjoy viewing pornography. So, yes, there are some women who "can understand." *gasp* I believe some of these women are even posting on AVEN.

Additionally, it was my wife's idea to purchase and view pornography together. She has no problem with it, just when I'm watching it alone. Which makes complete sense.

There's no need to get hostile. You disagree with the entire idea of pornography. Others don't. Lets leave it at that.

[Deremna]

I said it's not cheating. I didn't say it's not harmful. And it's my understanding that SOME women enjoy viewing pornography. So, yes, there are some women who "can understand." *gasp* I believe some of these women are even posting on AVEN.

Additionally, it was my wife's idea to purchase and view pornography together. She has no problem with it, just when I'm watching it alone. Which makes complete sense.

There's no need to get hostile. You disagree with the entire idea of pornography. Others don't. Lets leave it at that.

I watch porn. I don't have a problem with my boyfriend watching porn, in fact I wish he WOULD because then maybe he would go let off some steam by masturbating (which he is oddly weird about doing). The only way I would have a problem with it is if he were watching, like, real rape or child porn, obviously. Or beastiality.. Under those circumstances, I would definitely have to say soemthing. But if he's just watching consenting adults do their thing (or anime characters in my case, ha) then he can go right ahead and do it. Just wanted to throw my opinion out there.

[Asexy Existentialist]

<<Also, it's cool that your wife was willing to tell you that pornography is cheating.>>

I, for one, find it extremely selfish for a spouse to deny even a visual outlet to her partner if she's unwilling to have sex with said partner. Does she have NO EMPATHY at all for your frustration and loss?

E.

Except some people don't just view it as a 'visual outlet'. To some people, it's not okay for your SO to watch other people having sex, or to see other people naked, or to become so aroused by it that they have no choice but to take off their pants and pleasure themselves furiously. You can also argue that pornography is a disgusting mockery of something that should be special. Or maybe she's against the degredation and objectification of women. If she thinks it's cheating, those are her moral views, and if he's willing to respect that, I can only applaud him vehemently. He has demonstrated nothing but love and affection for her all this time, and I, for one, find it extremely selfish and conniving of you to try to change that in any way.

At the risk of lowering the opinion of me around here, I did not stop viewing pornography. She can demand that I don't have sex with her, and she can demand that I don't have sex with other people, but she CANNOT demand that I don't have sex with myself.

I'm visual, like many men. If I fantasize w/o some sort of stimulus, I end up fantasizing about my wife. Which is painful, frustrating, depressing, and kinda masochistic. Imagine being a world-class baker but never getting to eat your products.

Would you like to add that it's only fantasy, it's not harmless, the women enjoy it and get paid for it and would leave if they wanted to, that she and other women just 'can never understand'...?

By the by, are you lying to her about it, too?

I said it's not cheating. I didn't say it's not harmful. And it's my understanding that SOME women enjoy viewing pornography. So, yes, there are some women who "can understand." *gasp* I believe some of these women are even posting on AVEN.

Additionally, it was my wife's idea to purchase and view pornography together. She has no problem with it, just when I'm watching it alone. Which makes complete sense.

There's no need to get hostile. You disagree with the entire idea of pornography. Others don't. Lets leave it at that.

I didn't get hostile, actually, unless you consider 'voicing my opinion' hostile (which, ironically, most people do when their pornography use is in any way questioned).

Interestingly enough, I disagree with the idea of child marriage and killing elephants for ivory and drilling in Alaska, but others don't. I'm not willing to forgo morality if other people don't have any.

[Not-You]

I didn't get hostile, actually, unless you consider 'voicing my opinion' hostile (which, ironically, most people do when their pornography use is in any way questioned).

Interestingly enough, I disagree with the idea of child marriage and killing elephants for ivory and drilling in Alaska, but others don't. I'm not willing to forgo morality if other people don't have any.

Well, you did express your opinion that pornography is

a disgusting mockery of something that should be special.

and that people shouldn't watch pornography if they are

against the degredation and objectification of women.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that you are implying that people who view pornography enjoy the "degradation and objectification of women" and like to participate in a "disgusting mockery of something that should be special." Note exactly glowing praise. I am one of those people who likes to view pornography, so I do take offense at your implications, whether you meant them to be hostile or not. So, I admit to being defensive.

Edit: It's the same thing as telling somebody who eats meat how horrible eating meat is and then feigning shock when they act upset. Opinions can be hostile (and often are) when expressed.

Nobody is asking you to forgo your morality (well, at least I'm not). I'm asking you not to presume to impose your morality on my relationship. My wife enjoys porn, but not when I watch it alone. Again, that's understandable.

Double edit: anyway, I should stop contributing to the derailment of my own thread. :lol: Feel free to continue discussing your views on pornography here if you feel so inclined but I'm gonna stop.

[evanescence]

He has demonstrated nothing but love and affection for her all this time, and I, for one, find it extremely selfish and conniving of you to try to change that in any way.

Huh? I'm not trying to change anything, just empathizing with the OP's plight. Sounds like you lack empathy for the deep frustrations of a sexual in a committed "mixed" relationship. The prospect of living without sex for the rest of his married life is not something he can just shrug off. Is there anything in life that's emotionally necessary for you? Imagine if your spouse refused to discuss it, let alone provide it.

I stand by what I said: cutting your spouse off from something he deems essential to well-being (with no discussion, negotiation, or search for outside-the-box solutions) is extremely selfish. "I dunno" is a childish and disrespectful answer. As for porn: if you (generic you) are willing to provide sex, it's reasonable to ask your spouse to stay away from porn (not that I personally would ask it). If you're not going to provide sex, you're cheating your spouse out of a core expectation of marriage. Under such circumstances, insisting your spouse not "cheat" with porn seems egregiously self-centered to me. ("My morals count, your needs don't.") How someone can live in contentment while knowing her spouse is suffering because of her marital choices is beyond me.

E.

E.

[Not-You]

I stand by what I said: cutting your spouse off from something he deems essential to well-being (with no discussion, negotiation, or search for outside-the-box solutions) is extremely selfish. "I dunno" is a childish and disrespectful answer.

E.

I did finally get her to tell me that "I dunno" is actually the best answer she can provide. She either can't or won't investigate her own sexuality beyond the simple question of "do I want to have sex right now?" Or, possibly, she has investigated her sexuality and either doesn't understand what she's found or doesn't want to share what she's found. In any case, a shoulder shrug is all she can give me. Is that disrespectful? I can't say.

AVEN has shown me that, just like I cannot MAKE her have sex with me, I cannot MAKE her engage in some introspection. I wish she would, but I just have to take it or leave it, apparently.

Not that I want to keep a box-score of my sex-life on AVEN, but I plan on updating this thread at least a few more times to let anybody who cares whether our new plan is working or not.

[evanescence]

AVEN has shown me that, just like I cannot MAKE her have sex with me, I cannot MAKE her engage in some introspection.

That's right, you can't. If you're able to accept -- without resentment -- her lack of willingness or ability to introspect, then carry on. I know that I couldn't accept this in a spouse. One of my core relationship needs is a partner who has the insight to parse his experience and a willingness to share that insight with me.

E.

[Not-You]

AVEN has shown me that, just like I cannot MAKE her have sex with me, I cannot MAKE her engage in some introspection.

That's right, you can't. If you're able to accept -- without resentment -- her lack of willingness or ability to introspect, then carry on. I know that I couldn't accept this in a spouse. One of my core needs is a spouse who has the insight to parse his experience and a willingness to share that insight with me.

E.

Be careful using the 'n' word around here. Some avenites will berate you for saying anything beyond food, water, and shelter is a 'need.' :lol:

[Deremna]

Not that I want to keep a box-score of my sex-life on AVEN, but I plan on updating this thread at least a few more times to let anybody who cares whether our new plan is working or not.

Please do; I would like to see it updated. You are the sexual partner in a mixed relationship and therefore, you help me to understand my partner a little bit better. I mean, I obviously talk to him, but it's nice to read another perspective.

[Not-You]

Not that I want to keep a box-score of my sex-life on AVEN, but I plan on updating this thread at least a few more times to let anybody who cares whether our new plan is working or not.

Please do; I would like to see it updated. You are the sexual partner in a mixed relationship and therefore, you help me to understand my partner a little bit better. I mean, I obviously talk to him, but it's nice to read another perspective.

You mentioned elsewhere about being Grey-A and that your boyfriend has gone as long as 8 months without. And that, after the "honeymoon" period you may only be interested once or twice per year.

My questions to you: 1) how did he handle it when the frequent sex ceased and 2) how often do you actually have sex with each other? You said up there ^ that you wished he'd blow off some steam by masturbating...I take it you have sex more often than when you are interested?

As for me, I'll try to keep this updated. I've probably gotten all the 'help' I'm going to get from AVEN. Now I'm sticking around for the after-dinner entertainment. That and I hate doing actual work at my job.

[Deremna]

1. He handled it better than my exes did, that's for sure. The only problem when it first happened is that he automatically assumed it was him, that I wasn't physically attracted to him, I was falling out of love, I was going to break-up with him... Etc. I didn't know about asexuality then and so I automatically assumed there was soemthing wrong with me and I tried everything for trying to do new things in the bedroom to having my doctor check my hormone levels.. But he dealt with it in his own way.. I can tell when he is jonesing because he is easily irritated. *edit* He has not cheated on me like every other ex so, needless to say, I appreciate his dedication to our relationship.*

2. It depends on the whole sex things, we'll go a couple weeks, a couple months.. The problem there is I don't initiate anything ever because I simply don't feel the need to. It's not on my mind so I kind of forget that other people have urges. He doesn't want to ask me flat out because he's afraid that I will register that as him pressuring me. I exlpained to him two days ago that he just has to tell me when he feels like he's going to start punching holes in things and then we'll go ahead and do it. I may be uninterested in the situation but I don't want him to go insane from semen seeping into his brain, either. And like I said, he DOES need to masturbate, it may help a little, but he has some weird thing against it. I don't know what the issue is there but that's his deal.

And if we only had sex when I was interested, he'd be waiting a very, very long time. I think we need to establish some sort of at least weekly routine because I do feel very bad that he doesn't get his release.. I can only imagine how he feels by thinking to myself, "Rosey, could you go 8 months without playing a single video game?"..

Dear gods, now that I have put it in that perspective, I have gotta starting putting out more no matter how much I don't wanna!

[Not-You]

And if we only had sex when I was interested, he'd be waiting a very, very long time. I think we need to establish some sort of at least weekly routine because I do feel very bad that he doesn't get his release.. I can only imagine how he feels by thinking to myself, "Rosey, could you go 8 months without playing a single video game?"..

Dear gods, now that I have put it in that perspective, I have gotta starting putting out more no matter how much I don't wanna!

:lol:

[evanescence]

Be careful using the 'n' word around here. Some avenites will berate you for saying anything beyond food, water, and shelter is a 'need.' :lol:

If so, that's their problem. I make a distinction between subsistence needs and emotional needs. Obviously subsistence needs are more basic, just like Maslow's first level is more basic than the fifth, but that doesn't invalidate emotional needs. Just because food and shelter are more basic to physical survival than social relationships, for example, doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to expect and insist on social relationships in your life (if you're a socially inclined person). And a romantic partnership is supposed to be a medium in which to thrive, not just survive. If a relationship leaves you feeling sad and deprived, there's no reason to tough it out, IMO. Love isn't always enough.

E.

[MadRat]

*hugs* *hugs* *hugs*

You are sooooo admirable man with unbelievable patience. You are trying so hard all the time - but what is she doing? I don´t want to be offensive against a woman you love, but she seems to me like a selfish person. All she can do is to keep herself from the whole problem and constantly tell only "I don´t know."

Well, I don´t know too, but I´m searching for answers here on AVEN, and deep inside of my confused heart. And until I will find the answers I´m not going to hurt any hypothetical sexual boyfriend, because I think it would not be fair. Sorry but I´m not selfish and I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to hurt the one I love. OK, I´m an introverted loner since I was born, but there are times I feel very lonely. But I can deal with it (I like your motto) ;) .

Is she registered on AVEN? Does she read the posts of aces in here? I mean many posts, not only the main page and a few threads and that´s the end.

Why, why the hell is she so unwilling to talk with you honestly and openly? Can´t she talk openly to her own husband? This is so...childish. It seems to me like she is not trying, because she is too sure you will not pressure her into anything. She is safe. She is fine. That´s all what matters to her.

I´m sorry but it sucks... You don´t deserve to be treated this way. :( I can´t imagine anyone else who would not break up with her or cheat on her in the same situation.

At the risk of lowering the opinion of me around here, I did not stop viewing pornography. She can demand that I don't have sex with her, and she can demand that I don't have sex with other people, but she CANNOT demand that I don't have sex with myself.

And THIS sucks so much that I will not fall asleep because of this (it´s midnight here in Czech Republic). OMGs, how can anyone consider viewing pornography as cheating?

*hugs again*

If you´ll find my post too unjust and offensive against your wife, I´m sorry.

[Not-You]

*hugs* *hugs* *hugs*

You are sooooo admirable man with unbelievable patience. You are trying so hard all the time - but what is she doing? I don´t want to be offensive against a woman you love, but she seems to me like a selfish person. All she can do is to keep herself from the whole problem and constantly tell only "I don´t know."

Well, I don´t know too, but I´m searching for answers here on AVEN, and deep inside of my confused heart. And until I will find the answers I´m not going to hurt any hypothetical sexual boyfriend, because I think it would not be fair. Sorry but I´m not selfish and I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to hurt the one I love. OK, I´m an introverted loner since I was born, but there are times I feel very lonely. But I can deal with it (I like your motto) ;) .

Is she registered on AVEN? Does she read the posts of aces in here? I mean many posts, not only the main page and a few threads and that´s the end.

I sent her to the FAQ hoping she'd be interested and that I could then show her the glory that is the actual AVEN forums. But, she didn't bite.

Why, why the hell is she so unwilling to talk with you honestly and openly? Can´t she talk openly to her own husband? This is so...childish. It seems to me like she is not trying, because she is too sure you will not pressure her into anything. She is safe. She is fine. That´s all what matters to her.

I´m sorry but it sucks... You don´t deserve to be treated this way. :( I can´t imagine anyone else who would not break up with her or cheat on her in the same situation.

I wish I knew. In all honesty, neither thing is going to make me leave her and my daughter. I can live without sex. I can even live without really knowing WHY I'm not having sex. I'd just be unfulfilled, frustrated, and a whole host of other things. I still feel it'd be worth it, however.

At the risk of lowering the opinion of me around here, I did not stop viewing pornography. She can demand that I don't have sex with her, and she can demand that I don't have sex with other people, but she CANNOT demand that I don't have sex with myself.

And THIS sucks so much that I will not fall asleep because of this (it´s midnight here in Czech Republic). OMGs, how can anyone consider viewing pornography as cheating?

I believe the idea here is that those who view pornography are fantasizing about people other than their partner? Understandable, but also kind of silly. What happens when I watch a movie with Natalie Portman in it? Or see somebody on the street I find beautiful. Hell, what happens if I have a dream about sex with another person? If viewing porn is cheating because of the fantasy, then all of those other things are cheating, too.

I also think some people don't like it when their partner views porn because it somehow creates a competition for the viewing partner's attention. Which is probably true in some cases. But certainly not mine. I'd cut off my own feet if I could have sex with my wife instead of watching porn.

*hugs again*

If you´ll find my post too unjust and offensive against your wife, I´m sorry.

No need to apologize. I've lobbed most of these criticisms at my wife thousands of times over the years (never to her, however...I just never saw any dividend in doing such a thing). A lot of people on AVEN agree with you both, Aces and non-Aces.

Other people think I'm a jerk for even questioning her. Meh.

Like I said, I've probably gotten all I'm ever going to get out of AVEN. To wit:

1) Asexual people exist (no, really!),

2) It's possible for mixed relationships to work because,

3) Some asexual folks don't really hate sex all that much and can compromise,

4) There's a chance my wife is asexual, and

5) Nobody knows but her.

Beyond that, it's up to her and I to figure things out. She doesn't really want to "figure" anything out, but she's willing to compromise on the actual sex-issue (at least so far). I really believe that AVEN has helped me both keep my sanity and figure out different/better ways to ATTEMPT conversations with her. So I count myself blessed.

Thanks for the support! Hope you got some sleep by the time you read this.

[evanescence]

You are trying so hard all the time - but what is she doing? I don´t want to be offensive against a woman you love, but she seems to me like a selfish person. All she can do is to keep herself from the whole problem and constantly tell only "I don´t know."

My sentiments exactly -- glad I'm not alone in thinking it. "I don't know" is a copout, IMO. Whether she's asexual or not, there's a lot she could be telling the OP, such as: whether she's ever felt horny, sexually attracted, turned on, etc. If so, under what conditions. Does she ever enjoy sex. If so, what parts does she enjoy. If not, is she indifferent or repulsed. This is information he needs in order to find inner peace. Avoiding the conversation, even if it's uncomfortable for her, shows insensitivity and lack of empathy, IMO.

Perhaps the OP has left out some of his wife's wonderful qualities. Even so, she hasn't stepped up to the plate in this area.

To the OP: just wondering why you accept your wife's lack of effort (I don't mean sexual) so readily. Are you afraid of confrontation or rocking the boat?

E.

[Not-You]

"I don't know" is a copout, IMO. Whether she's asexual or not, there's a lot she could be telling the OP, such as: whether she's ever felt horny, sexually attracted, turned on, etc. If so, under what conditions. Does she ever enjoy sex. If so, what parts does she enjoy. If not, is she indifferent or repulsed.

Maybe I haven't been clear enough, but I do know the approximate answers to most of these questions. Or, at least what she's told me.

Ever felt horny? Maybe. Not really any more.

Sexually attracted? Not really. She claims to not have sexual thoughts.

Turned on? the necessary parts cooperate at least.

Under what conditions? This she won't be clear about.

Does she ever enjoy sex? Yes, once it's begun. "It feels really good" Orgasms make her feel dirty however.

What parts does she enjoy? Receiving oral sex, and penetration seems to be enjoyable. Again, up until orgasm and then all hell breaks loose. The only no-no I've gotten from her is performing oral sex.

Her answers won't get any more detailed than that. I HAVE gotten answers better than "I dunno," it's just like pulling teeth to get them out of her--and I have to wade through a swamp of "sorry I'm such a bad wife" bon mots.

The BIG questions get ignored. I suppose AVEN has contributed to much of my frustration in this regard, however. Here I am surrounded by people who are able and wiling to discuss, in very intimate detail, their thoughts and feelings about sex. My wife will not.

She was clearly "interested" in sex when we were dating. That began to dwindle until even my own invitations were rejected . The thing I REALLY want to know is "why did that happen?" Why the change? This she cannot or will not tell me.

Perhaps the OP has left out some of his wife's wonderful qualities. Even so, she hasn't stepped up to the plate in this area.

Of course I have! I didn't come here to dote on her. :P She's extraordinarily beautiful. She's (usually) got a good sense of humor. She's smart, curious (about some things LOL), sympathetic (again, about some things). She makes a mean cheesecake, shes an extremely determined woman and she's a FANTASTIC and exceedingly patient mother. Edit: she also doesn't really snore that much AND she puts up with me. What more can a man ask for?

To the OP: just wondering why you accept your wife's lack of effort (I don't mean sexual) so readily. Are you afraid of confrontation or rocking the boat?

E.

What's the point? She's made it perfectly clear that she's not going to (or cannot) tell me more than what I already know. There is absolutely no sense in having a huge, potentially relationship-altering, argument when the ONLY result will be to simply bring us back full circle: we have less sex than I would like (used to be NONE, but hopefully that is changing). Why? Because sex isn't really important to her, and is pretty invasive. Why? She doesn't know.

At some point (I think I've already passed it), I'm beating a dead horse and getting absolutely no benefit from it. Let's be honest. Anybody who wants a long-term relationship wants it to be PERFECT. I don't believe such a thing exists. If she cannot (and I believe it's cannot as oppose to will not) tell me why she feels the way she does about sex, is that reason enough to destroy an otherwise near-perfect marriage? I deem it not so.

We know where each other stands. There's no longer any need to try to discuss the reason for the divide, there is only reason to discuss how to bridge it. She's willing to do that, at least in general terms.

Edit: tossing in some more parentheses for good measure. (((()))))

[mylittlehazmat]

For my part, I'm sorry to have contributed to your frustrations by being so incredibly hell bent on figuring myself out that I'll sacrifice personal dignity (ahem, some posts ... ahaha) for the cause. :roll eyes: You've always made it clear your wife is "worth it" as it were. :) And despite whatever we are, you are also amazingly able to describe your difficulties in such an intimate manner, which shows your dedication to this. So I think that's all that really needs to be said anymore.

[Not-You]

For my part, I'm sorry to have contributed to your frustrations by being so incredibly hell bent on figuring myself out that I'll sacrifice personal dignity (ahem, some posts ... ahaha) for the cause. :roll eyes: You've always made it clear your wife is "worth it" as it were. :) And despite whatever we are, you are also amazingly able to describe your difficulties in such an intimate manner, which shows your dedication to this. So I think that's all that really needs to be said anymore.

I hope I'm coming across this way! Thanks.

Re-reading this thread is almost comical: I've taken quite a turn from when I created it. I came to AVEN to learn about asexuality, to get some diagnosis for my wife (lol at that now) and to get some advice on how to relate to her.

This thread in particular was created as a way to vent my frustrations about her communication issues and to get advice on the same. Almost two months later, I am less frustrated and have taken the best advice I have gotten to heart: "she keeps giving you the same answers-either believe her and work around it or you need to 'move on.'" Harsh advice, but I needed to hear it (er...read it).

[evanescence]

I have to wade through a swamp of "sorry I'm such a bad wife" bon mots.

Sorry, but I find the "I'm such a bad wife" riposte to be childish and manipulative. It's designed to elicit your sympathy while deflecting the conversation. It puts me in mind of a friend of mine in university (I'll call her X). She was one of four girls (including me) living together in an apartment. Whenever one of us would confront X about anything (say, forgetting to buy groceries when it was her turn), she would get pouty and say, "Right, I'm such a horrible person" (instead of addressing the issue at hand). Finally, another girl in our group told me that the next time X said this, she would respond, "Yes, X, sometimes I think you are a horrible person." And she did!

F.

[Not-You]

Sorry, but I find the "I'm such a bad wife" riposte to be childish and manipulative. It's designed to elicit your sympathy while deflecting the conversation.

F.

Yes.

[MadRat]

She was clearly "interested" in sex when we were dating. That began to dwindle until even my own invitations were rejected . The thing I REALLY want to know is "why did that happen?" Why the change? This she cannot or will not tell me.

I think there´s is a possibility she was never interested in sex, but she thought she will be later because "everyone wants sex...blah blah blah".

Or she could know she will never be interested in sex, but she pretended she is sexual, because she didn´t want to lose you. But, as I said before, this second possibility sucks. And the fact she obviously looked on AVEN only a few times and took no next steps to selfdiscovery, sucks too. She is very passive about the whole matter.

She might be a beautiful angel in your eyes and I get it, because when you love someone, you would excuse this person even things you would never excuse yourself.

Evanescence mentioned your wife is manipulative. I agree with it. I used to know very pretty girl with a sweet voice and a cute smile. At first everyone liked her, because she seemed to be really nice person. But she was manipulative and in addition very selfish, greasy and she was a bit*h who cheated all of her boyfriends. But it was hard to see her real shape under her beautiful face. I don´t want to say by this that your wife is SO horrible person like this girl. The point is that some people are manipulative and so they seem to be better than they are.

I can understand her asexuality, but I don´t understand her lack of will to comunicate with you and to search for the answers for her questions, which she has deep in her mind. If she searched, it would help her, I´m sure. She is avoiding the entire problem and this is very childish. She acts like 14 years old girl who doesn´t know what she wants. She might be great woman in other ways, but this one thing is important and she is not trying to work on it. Is it so difficult for her to understand it?

I´m asexual or rather gray-A with absolutely no sexual experiences. For me, sex is something abstract what I´ve never known. But despite of this, I understand how important it is for sexuals. If there was a guy interested in me (and if I fell in love with him), I would tell him I´m not "normal". I would risk a rejection rather than more problems in future. I think one broken heart is better than two and my broken heart is better than his. Because I´m not selfish.

*hugs**hugs**hugs*

I have no better advice for you than to force her a little more to her selfdiscovering and to tell her that "I don´t know" is NOT an answer.

P.S. I went to sleep at almost 3 o´clock in the night (or morning:-)) after listening to heavy metal. Nice, sweet music for appeasement. :D

[Not-You]

Update: we're now batting .500 for the "sex on the weekends" plan. For those of you who aren't baseball fans, or people who don't understand math, that's 50% or 1/2. :P

I am clearly in denial. The plan is to have sex on the weekends so long as the baby cooperates (meaning, sleeps in her crib--something that almost NEVER happens because we're awful parents). Because of my denial, I took that to mean that we would MAKE the baby cooperate--i.e. put her down for a nap. Even though that was clearly NOT the plan. So, the baby didn't nap on her own, so we didn't have sex.

Yes, I'm in denial. If I want to have sex every weekend, that would require my wife's help putting the baby down. Which would require her to WANT to put the baby down. Which would require her to WANT to have sex. Which she doesn't.

I've been in denial for a long, long time, I've finally come to realize. At least I recognize my own limitations?

[mylittlehazmat]

*snug*

[MadRat]

I was always sleeping in my crib when I was a baby. And I wasn´t coming to my parentś bedroom ´cause of bad dreams etc. I´ve never had fear of the dark. I have only fear of sex and spiders. :lol:

The whole matter with your baby is only an evasion.*sigh*

Your wife should be honest and tell you she doesn´t want to have sex, when it is so obvious, that even a blind man would see it.

I don´t know what else to tell you. I´m so sorry for you.

Everytime I read your posts it helps me to understand sexual people. I can´t help you, but at least I can avert myself to hurt some potential boyfriend, because the only one thing I must do is NOT to date sexual men.

[Not-You]

I was always sleeping in my crib when I was a baby. And I wasn´t coming to my parentś bedroom ´cause of bad dreams etc. I´ve never had fear of the dark. I have only fear of sex and spiders. :lol:

The whole matter with your baby is only an evasion.*sigh*

Yes and no. I truly believe that she's not using our daughter as some sort of sex-shield. On the other hand, I'm quite sure the baby would have started sleeping on her own a LONG time ago if my wife wanted to have sex.

Meh. I've been ignoring the writing on the wall for so freaking long.

[Olivier]

OK, I'm going to talk about me, and my wife, for a bit. I know everyone's different, and these observations may not apply, but as you say that your wife doesn't, or can't offer her perspective, I'll share what my wife told me around the same stage with our kids.

Basically, she felt that she no longer had control of her own body. That the baby, naturally without any thought for my wife's my feelings on the matter, had simply appropriated my wife's body for her own use. And while it made my wife feel like a good and nurturing mother to provide for her infant daughter's needs in such a basic way, when the baby was asleep she really felt she needed the feeling of having control of her own body back, not pressure from me to use it as I wanted.

Now no doubt many women, on fleetingly being given back control of their own bodies by their hyper-insistent infants, would say: "Finally, some child-free time, and I can have sex like I want to." But even these women will also really feel the need for a simple break - to enjoy their bodily autonomy by kicking back and doing absolutely nothing with it, for a change - just for a break from the relentless demands young children put on mothers, especially breastfeeding mothers.

My wife simply doesn't have a huge need for touch, and even at 4, 6, and 8, our kids pretty much give her all the touch she needs, and then some. Her argument goes that under those circumstances it makes sense for me to go without because the kids don't understand all that, and I do, and should just man up and deal. Which I do, for the most part, but part of our solution is to actively find stuff that's high on sexiness, but low on touch. For example once we get the kids to bed instead of high-touch foreplay and sex, my wife might change into lingerie and we'll lounge around watching a movie together eating chocolate. She gets candy, I get candy and eye-candy and then we'll have a quickie. If you can identify what exactly the issues are, then you can find solutions.

As you also know, we also went through a period where talking about sex just didn't happen, and it was hugely frustrating. That frustration led to quite a bit of snark and hurtfulness on both sides, which just reinforced the idea that talking about sex was a bad idea. That's a hard loop to break out of, I know. Apart from using our method of much patience combined with one explosively huge fight (for us, both were necessary), I'm not sure what to suggest.

[Not-You]

Thanks Olivier. I get it, I really do. Even if she were fully sexual, she's bound to feel "over-touched" and not really be interested in sex.

On the other hand, it sounds like your wife is a bit (maybe a lot) more open-minded about sex in general than my wife. However, we've never spoken much about details ( <_< ), so I could be wrong...

At this point, I just need to continue to be patient. And get my head out of the sand. If we're ever going to have a satisfying sex-life (for me, anyway), it's not going to start now. We're still months away.

She's willing to compromise. That ought to be enough for me. I'm wrapping my head around it as we speak.

But, there still is the communication problem. That's why I whine at you guys and not her!!

For example once we get the kids to bed instead of high-touch foreplay and sex, my wife might change into lingerie and we'll lounge around watching a movie together eating chocolate. She gets candy, I get candy and eye-candy and then we'll have a quickie.

Awesome! I totally DO NOT see us doing that. :P

[Olivier]

On the other hand, it sounds like your wife is a bit (maybe a lot) more open-minded about sex in general than my wife. However, we've never spoken much about details ( <_< ), so I could be wrong...

Indeed. On a scale of 1 to 100 for prudishness, my wife would rate somewhere between 0 and 5. On matters sexual she is entirely impossible to shock, and indeed quite capable of shocking others by finding banal what they find risqué or embarrassing.