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Why is Autism a dirt word on this site? There is a strong link. Thoughts? Experiences?

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daveb

Want to go to the dentist? Like Bill Murray in "Little Shop of Horrors"? :P 

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ryn2
21 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I think that asexuality combined with any lack of ability to sense emotions in others is a misery-inducing combination.

It’s a problem in either direction. I’ve had 22 years’ experience sensing something was very wrong for/with my partner, who can’t do the same in reverse, but only just learned it was a sex mismatch this year.

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uhtred
38 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It’s a problem in either direction. I’ve had 22 years’ experience sensing something was very wrong for/with my partner, who can’t do the same in reverse, but only just learned it was a sex mismatch this year.

Agreed.  

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Sweet Potato
7 hours ago, ryn2 said:

...part of that is because someone asking “do you want to wash the dishes while I deal with the cat’s litter box?” isn’t really asking the same question as a sexual person asking “do you want to have sex?”

sounds comparable to me.
sex: I don't enjoy it, it  takes effort to make it work, the benefit is that my partner has to reset the "its been X days since we've had sex" complaint.
dishes: I don't enjoy them, it takes effort to get them done, the benefit is that my kitchen is clean until the next meal.

to the OP origional question: as others have said, Autism is not a dirt word here.

I do not believe that there is a cause to asexuality. it really is a case of born this way. One can be autistic and asexual but not asexual because they are autistic, same with an abusive past, PTSD, religious/conservative upbringing, depression, anxiety and so on. These may have an affect on one's view of and desire for sex, but it doesn't change one's innate sexual attraction.

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Sally
19 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Nobody's making you do it. You're choosing to do it because the pros outweigh the cons. So in fact, you do want to do it.

 

When it comes to sex, an asexual might choose not to do it because the cons outweigh the pros, or the pros might outweigh the cons, so they choose to do it. Nobody has completely free choice, devoid of consequences, over anything, but that doesn't mean we never want to do anything. I don't think these things are neat, clean decisions.

Tele, don't tell asexuals what we choose/don't choose, etc.   And also, don't tell us we're hairsplitting when we try to explain something to someone we know needs explanation.   You affirmatively dislike asexuals portraying what sexuals think/want/choose/etc   We feel the same dislike.  

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alibali
7 hours ago, uhtred said:

n asexual person who is sensitive to others will recognize the problems in a mixed relationship, and either end it or find some accommodation

 

An asexual person who is not sensitive will never really understand what is going on. They will be happy, and unable to understand how someone else is unhappy in the same situation.   They will likely see their sexual partner as selfish and unreasonable since their partners desires  / wishes simply don't make sense to them. 

I don't exactly disagree but I think that individual situations are much more complex than that. For example by the time I knew I couldn't deal with it anymore i had 10 year old children. And they had problems and neither of us was in a position both financially and emotionally to make major life changes. Our children's needs came first and were much more important, to both of us. I would have accepted an open relationship and made that clear. We are both quite practical people and on many levels it worked.

 

It is just not black and white where the lines are drawn or who is more or less selfish....and why.

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Homer
13 hours ago, alibali said:

Well asexuals can't provide the best, they can just do their best. 

Isn't that how it is for everyone, regardless of their orientation? Unless you're pretty much exact clones of your partner, there will be differences and compromises and someone will have to settle for the best available thing instead of the best thing there is objectively.

 

I don't really understand the want/"want" debate though. Wanting the result is nowhere near wanting to engage in the way to get there. I want food, but I hate cooking. I will still expose foodstuff to heat, but that doesn't mean that I "want" to cook. I'd prefer not to have to jump through the hoops of eating and digesting. There's no want involved in the "tool" (cooking), but rather the result (food).

 

As to the original question - no, it's not a dirty word. Personally I just don't like these two being lumped together. Autism can cause symptoms which look similar to asexuality, but that's different than actually being asexual even though the results may look the same.

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IronHamster
15 hours ago, alibali said:

Well asexuals can't provide the best, they can just do their best. 

I don't want to fuck a partner that does not WANT to fuck me.  The experience between fucking my ace stbx and my affair partner was unreal.  My stbx could not keep the charade of enjoyment going for more than twenty minutes.  I would deny her my orgasm just to show her she needed to be able to do better.  With my AP, we finish the session with so much adrenaline, oxytocin, and endorphins coursing through our blood that neither of us even care that neither of us came.

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Homer
14 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I would deny her my orgasm just to show her she needed to be able to do better. 

Wat?

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alibali
3 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I don't want to fuck a partner that does not WANT to fuck me.  The experience between fucking my ace stbx and my affair partner was unreal.  My stbx could not keep the charade of enjoyment going for more than twenty minutes.  I would deny her my orgasm just to show her she needed to be able to do better.  With my AP, we finish the session with so much adrenaline, oxytocin, and endorphins coursing through our blood that neither of us even care that neither of us came.

And that's fine, that's your right to seek out something that is better for you. You only get one life.

 

Clearly you had a relationship that was better ended because you were being as selfish and insensitive to her as you felt she was to you. I assume it's over.

 

I wouldn't know...not being sexual, how wonderful sex is or can be. It's alien to me.

 

I have had amazing emotional shared experiences that have resulted in the feelings you describe. Just not sexual. There's more than one way to get adrenaline and endorphins flowing.

 

Going back to the original OP.  Autism is a way of identifying neurological issues and supporting individuals who find it difficult to negotiate the world (not just social interaction, but any kind of increased sensitivity to light, sound, space, texture). I think it's dangerous to assume that there are links with asexuality in order to prove a point or that asexuals have issues with social interaction in general.

 

 

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anisotrophic
2 hours ago, IronHamster said:

The experience between fucking my ace stbx and my affair partner was unreal. 

Ah, the thrill of an affair! What a unique experience! 😂 I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be more sexually thrilling than a current partner, regardless of their attraction to you, otherwise I'd say you're doing your sexual fantasies wrong.

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Serran
3 hours ago, Homer said:

Wat?

Im guessing its a toxic mind game, so you probably dont want more info. 😛

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IronHamster
6 hours ago, Serran said:

Im guessing its a toxic mind game, so you probably dont want more info. 😛

It was erotic as fuck, and gets better every time we can have a whole night together.  

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Sally
10 hours ago, IronHamster said:

 I would deny her my orgasm just to show her she needed to be able to do better.  

That was not terribly kind.  

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IronHamster
10 hours ago, Homer said:

Wat?

Her goal of having sex was to get it over with.  That is a silly goal.  The goal of sex should be to get the most out of it.  

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IronHamster
2 minutes ago, Sally said:

That was not terribly kind.  

In the end, the best thing to do was end the charade.  The kindest thing is the most honest thing, which is why I rail on people that advise to young aces that they lie to their sexual partners.   That lie is setting people up for a lifetime of agonizing frustration.  

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IronHamster

Getting back to the topic, my mother is borderline aspergers, and not asexual.  My stbx is not autistic in the least.  I am not sure why autism would be a dirt word here, as, in my experience, I see no correlation.  

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Homer
7 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Her goal of having sex was to get it over with.  That is a silly goal.  The goal of sex should be to get the most out of it.  

Sometimes getting it over with is the most that is there to get out of it...

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Serran
34 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

It was erotic as fuck, and gets better every time we can have a whole night together.  

Homer's "Wat?" was to denying orgasm to your wife, not what you do with your lover. Which is what I was responding to. 

 

1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

Her goal of having sex was to get it over with.  That is a silly goal.  The goal of sex should be to get the most out of it.  

People who get nothing out of it obviously get the most out of it by it being over with quickly. You can't force yourself to actually enjoy something you don't like or desire. 

 

3 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

In the end, the best thing to do was end the charade.  The kindest thing is the most honest thing, which is why I rail on people that advise to young aces that they lie to their sexual partners.   That lie is setting people up for a lifetime of agonizing frustration.  

Yes, if compromise doesn't work it's best to end things. And the only successful relationship is one that is based around trust and honesty. Though, most mixed relationships end up that way due to not knowing, which is why visibility is important. If the aces know they are ace, they won't end up in a bad situation for both partners. 

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alibali
30 minutes ago, Serran said:

Yes, if compromise doesn't work it's best to end things. And the only successful relationship is one that is based around trust and honesty. Though, most mixed relationships end up that way due to not knowing, which is why visibility is important. If the aces know they are ace, they won't end up in a bad situation for both partners. 

Visibility is virtually impossible for asexuals. My closest friends know. Their questions imply that either they don't believe me or don't understand. Consequently they think of me as a closet lesbian because I must have some needs...lolol.

 

In my own experience I just assumed I had a really low libido for a very long time which seemed more likely than not having any desire.

 

But that is the result of most people thinking that wanting to get sex over and done with quickly is a "silly goal".....its not for those of us who can't see the point of sex!!

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IronHamster

Indeed, @Alibaba, it is.  It is also pointless for the sexual that wants to have mutual pleasure.  Honesty is the best policy for all sexual orientations.  

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Serran

Visibility isnt impossible. My brother knew of asexuality when I mentioned it, cause of visibility - so did a guy I dated on OKcupid (though we didnt date long cause it just didnt click). 

 

Though I dont ID as asexual anymore, I found a lot of people knew of the label. Which helped. 

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alibali
1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Indeed, @Alibaba, it is.  It is also pointless for the sexual that wants to have mutual pleasure.  Honesty is the best policy for all sexual orientations.  

Assuming you know what you are being honest about.  I was a teen in the 1970s. I don't think asexual as a word had been invented or even the concept of sexual orientation.

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alibali

In fact I doubt if autism was known about then either. 

 

I know people in my office who don't know about any changes since the 1970s. Try having an honest coming out conversation with them....lolol

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ryn2
32 minutes ago, alibali said:

Assuming you know what you are being honest about.  I was a teen in the 1970s. I don't think asexual as a word had been invented or even the concept of sexual orientation.

Yep, same.

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Homer
9 hours ago, alibali said:

Assuming you know what you are being honest about.  I was a teen in the 1970s. I don't think asexual as a word had been invented or even the concept of sexual orientation.

That's where I struggle though. Why does one need to know about a "term" or the underlying concept? I'm fairly certain that you know whether you're interested in something or not. "I don't care about sex and it's not something I seek." is being perfectly honest without knowing any fancy words. What am I missing?

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Sally
12 hours ago, IronHamster said:

In the end, the best thing to do was end the charade.  The kindest thing is the most honest thing, which is why I rail on people that advise to young aces that they lie to their sexual partners.   That lie is setting people up for a lifetime of agonizing frustration.  

What you did was not ending the charade; it was being plain mean.  If you felt your situation was a charade, you should have left, not dicked around expecting someone to "do a better job" when they were simply being themselves.  

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alibali
1 hour ago, Homer said:

That's where I struggle though. Why does one need to know about a "term" or the underlying concept? I'm fairly certain that you know whether you're interested in something or not. "I don't care about sex and it's not something I seek." is being perfectly honest without knowing any fancy words. What am I missing?

What you are missing is that you're assuming that a) I wasn't honest before, and b) my assumption for years that there was something wrong with me, meaning I spent years also trying to fix the unfixable.

 

 Finding a label for myself and accepting that that is ok was the most important part of the jigsaw.

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anisotrophic
45 minutes ago, alibali said:

my assumption for years that there was something wrong with me, meaning I spent years also trying to fix the unfixable.

 

 Finding a label for myself and accepting that that is ok was the most important part of the jigsaw.

Agreed. It was enormous to understand this in terms of orientation. An enduring aspect of someone, not a dysfunction or natural lacuna in libido due to distractions and stress. Before, we perceived it as a series of other reasons. Trying to fix the unfixable, or waiting for a perceived cause to have resolved.

It may have mattered a lot more for me & my partner -- in the context of a relationship. My impression for another asexual person close to me, whose relationship experiences were long ago and less involved, is that they feel more like @Homer does, that it's not a big deal. They didn't seem to feel like a lack of understanding/identity had been a source of much suffering or stress.

 

On 9/15/2018 at 1:45 AM, alibali said:

I think it's dangerous to assume that there are links with asexuality in order to prove a point or that asexuals have issues with social interaction in general.

+1 This aptly summarizes my reluctance on autism/asexuality correlation.

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Telecaster68

A lot of peer reviewed robust studies do show a higher incidence of people on the spectrum identifying as non straight in some way, including asexual, though. It may be slightly uncomfortable for some people to accept, but that's no reason to pretend otherwise. 

 

Understanding asexuality as an orientation can also be important for sexual partners too - it means the lack of a satisfying sexual relationship isn't indicative of something else wrong with either person or the relationship. 

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