White Privilege

[Aquatic Paradox]

Overall, I do, but I think the real picture is more complicated than white people vs non-white people.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Arodash said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703724104575379630952309408

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/the-fallacy-of-white-privilege-and-how-its-corroding-society/

 

 

The guy in second article contradicts himself. 

 

His dad got wealth, but their skin color and appearance is exactly what had them initially struggle and face rejection, socially. Wealthy sure, but he is still Indian.  

 

It's not stopping you from success. He is looking at numbers, but is missing the point. 

 

My doctor and parents growing up, made a solid point. 

 

My doctor, also from India would remind me (he owned a large medical firm):

 

"I have had to work much harder than my white counterparts, to obtain the same success" 

 

This, even though his medical knowledge was far superior than theirs. I honestly was blessed to have had him, as he is the best doctor I have ever had. 

 

"You will need to outwork your white peers, in the same way to earn the same respect"

 

I have to work harder to gain the same trust my white peers are given without thought. I had to earn a reputation in my city first.

 

Doesn't mean white people aren't busting their ass.

 

Doesn't mean that an obese white short male  may not be judged as lazy just  based on his appearance at an interview. 

 

It just means that being black, is something I can't erase. Even getting in top condition. Wherever I travel to. 

 

I can be rich. In the US, I am still subject to the police's racial profiling in some areas. Even more if my car is luxurious. 

 

I have countless times been accosted in a high end store, like I couldn't afford something. 

 

I have high pride, so what did I do last time. I almost bought all their inventory of the product I was looking for. In cash. 

 

Oprah Winfrey is a billionaire, and experienced this. 

 

That's the point being made. 

 

We are made to feel inferior the moment we are born, socially. 

 

We can have all the wealth and perfect skin. We are still black. 

 

Being a visible minority is you having to work harder, more than likely. 

 

I had business partners mention things like the staff shortages. Followed by:

 

"I keep getting Muhameds and Hassan's applying. They probably don't speak English..."

 

You can't escape that prejudice just because you make money.

 

I knew a couple Jewish people. One of which got ridiculed due to his religious garments he would wear.

 

The other, a close friend, went under the radar as they only had a Jewish last name. Never experienced any form of prejudice their entire life as a result. 

 

If you visibly wear your minority card, you won't be that lucky. 

[Forest Spirit]

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[KiraS]

To unpack my privilege. My maternal grandfather grew up on settled land that was stolen through treaty violations. His family lost everything in the Great Depression, but he survived by joining what was, at the time, a very small and highly segregated Army. After the war he benefited from programs that due to military segregation black men of his age did not have access to. As a WWII veteran, he also got a head start in home ownership, in a city where banks and insurance companies actively practiced economic segregation undermining the value of black home ownership. They vacationed in state parks that were unsafe for black people due to active harassment. That generational wealth passed to me as a head start in my professional career.

 

On the other hand, my father grew up in a house that was heated by a coal fireplace and a fuel oil heater, and wore shirts made of feed bags until he got a job and could buy his own. So no, it's not evenly distributed. But on average, ethnic minorities in the United States have less wealth, less access to services, higher mortality from preventable medical conditions, and don't have the same access to multi-generational home ownership which is a huge advantage in terms of socio-economic status. That's not something to feel guilty over, but it's a problem to acknowledge and work to correct. 

 

 

[Forest Spirit]

1 hour ago, Arodash said:

Have you lived here and experienced what we experience?

Do I need to to have an opinion?

[Forest Spirit]

If I'd need to live somewhere to be able to form an educated opinion the last 5 years would have been a waste of time🤔 a lot of science would be...

To be clear, no I don't comment on other countries if I don't know anything about them. However, living somewhere doesn't give you full insight into how that place and its society works. Experiences are naturally limited after all

 

(this is my opinion, agree or disagree but I won't start a discussion over it)

[Forest Spirit]

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[Madelise]

9 hours ago, Arodash said:

Its racist in my opinion. It is a discriminatory way to look at an entire group of people whom you can not know all the experiences of. 

If you're offended by the term "White Privilege," that's your problem, not mine. Like I said before, it's like being offended by someone calling a white person a cracker. Both don't make sense. It's not racist to say that if you're white, you have privilege. No one ever said that white people can't have hard times (I have and I'm white). We're saying that you automatically have an advantage over other people if you're white.

 

9 hours ago, Arodash said:

I'm going to really suggest you not use words like idiotic and ignorant, you dont know me, you dont my experiences, you dont even know my skin color.

And I will use whatever words I please, thank you very much.

[Madelise]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

im not going to engage with someone who used a racial slur, have a good day, we agree to disagree but I will no longer be engaging with you. 

Cracker is not a slur! White people aren't oppressed! Get over yourself. The n-word and cracker are two completely different things.

[Forest Spirit]

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[Madelise]

10 minutes ago, Arodash said:

I will no longer be engaging with you.

If only you had that same attitude in the Portland Protests thread 🙄

[Skycaptain]

"Cracker" is now a closed subject pending admod review. 

 

Can we return to discussing other aspects of this topic. Skycaptain moderator PPS 

[Missing]

20 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Like I said, I view it as majority privledge

How would you prefer to refer to the situation in places where whites are the minority by numbers, yet still have privilege due to having a disproportionate amount of the wealth/influence/land in that region?

[Missing]

Just now, Arodash said:

Minority privledge

What if the other minorities in that region do not have the same privilege as the white minority?

[Missing]

Just now, Arodash said:

you said white minority, so, in this scenario do we have a minority of white people, and a minority of say, asian people with a majority of black people?

Yeah, let's go with that.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Arodash said:

I totally see and respect your point I just don't consider it white privilege I consider it majority privilege because people of various races will experience these same things in different places that's why I refuse to call it white privilege I call it majority privilege

Isn't that like saying white people go to jail too in the US, ignoring the vastly disproportionate percentage of them that do vs black people? An even starker number when you observe black males vs white.

 

Is that luck?

 

But isn't that ignoring the deliberate ghettoisation of blacks at the hands of white lawmakers at the turn of the prior century? 

 

Where US cities were blatantly segregated. Whites got the best of everything. Blacks got the worst. Poor education. Run down homes.  Having it indoctrinated that your area being for "colored" people meant you clearly were inferior. 

 

Put together with criminals, and with no means of getting out even if you were affluent enough to. 

 

The main thing that separates then from now in some cities  is the fact that those blacks now have rights.

 

However, in predominantly white suburbs or rural townships, they are still as non welcome. 

 

The means of rejection is just no longer violent. Its subtle  like the PC culture that pressured it to be. 

 

Many still have the same slave shackles on. They are just attached to their minds now. 

 

To say this system is no longer operational, is to ignore the many cities that still have plush mostly white suburbs, and its like a line is drawn into the sand as to where the city goes to shit and needs to be avoided.

 

"Murders shouldn't be happening here!" are the cries of those having to deal with such tragedies in their white suburbs. 

 

In a black neighborhood, its just the way things are. 

 

Why is that?

 

There are levels of white privilege in the US one can't ignore, especially if they have had to live it their entire lives. 

 

My family in the US, are mostly diplomats but this doesn't stop them from being black. 

 

No matter how wealthy they are, you still run a far higher chance at being pulled over in a Luxury car with my skin tone. 

 

To say this isn't currently happening in the US, is trying to dismiss a system that was built to castrate black men and minorities. 

 

[Aquatic Paradox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

To say this isn't currently happening in the US, is trying to dismiss a system that was built to castrate black men and minorities. 

 

How would you say the system in Canada compares?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, iCicero said:

How would you say the system in Canada compares?

It doesn't (if you are comparing a system of ghettoisation), unless you are comparing reserves, where aboriginal people experience similar conditions and are equally swept under the rug. 

 

In these settings, you will see minorities experiencing high suicide rates, STD contraction rates and abnormally high rates of social issues such as drug use, teenage pregnancy and other issues that plague those communities. 

 

The segregation and lack of opportunity, castrate a high percentage of these people.

 

Again, I could also say not all aboriginal people in Canada have such dire outlooks in Canada. Many make high salaries and live well.

 

This would be ignoring the issue, by pretending it isn't there. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Arodash said:

If a white person was born in another country in which they had been a minority, grew up there, experiencing laws designed against them even today and they came to the US how do you think they'd feel if someone called them "white privledge" ?

Can you give an example of a country like that?

[Guest]

It's a different issue, as I have never felt in Canada that I had it the worst.

 

I have been to a couple reserves before, and I know how fortunate that I am. 

 

There are an incredibly disproportionate amount of Inuit, and aboriginal homeless and drug addicts in my city. 

 

Almost heart breakingly so, when you see an entire family to where you start to question our system the same way a black person would rightfully question the US system. 

 

I do feel not all racial minorities have it bad, however. 

 

Some, statistically, are quite affluent financially. 

 

You can't deny that either. 

 

So yeah, to say Canada is fine and dandy on the racial front, would be hypocritical of me. 

 

We should be embarrassed at how we have handled some demographics of people. Just pay them reparations, and tuck them aside where nobody can see them slowly destroying themselves from within their own communities.

[Guest]

First of all, I said yes. I do believe there are privileges that come with white skin in America.  I've yet to see a time where a person is in a situation where it is disadvantageous to be white. Now I'm sure that those situations exist, but it seems indicative to me that I'm not seeing them.

 

When I hear sirens and see lights after passing a police car parked on the side of the road as a white person, I think "I hope I don't get a ticket." So many of the people in the African American community in particular go into that same scenario thinking "I hope I live through this." My parents never had to sit down with me and tell me how to behave at a traffic stop, because I'm more likely than not going to get the benefit of the doubt from the officer walking up. When I walk down the sidewalk in the non-white parts of town, I have it in the back of my head that the cop car signifies an ally and a helping hand. When a person of color walks down the streets in any part of town, they pass a cop car while doing everything in their power to "look innocent" regardless of their guilt.

 

I've written this a person who has heard a handful of stories from other racial/ethnic groups that show a vastly different life than what I live. Being white is not inherently easy, it is inherently easier.

[Aquatic Paradox]

10 minutes ago, Arodash said:

 Afghanistan and Syria

Those countries are more about whether you follow Islam or not rather than the colour of your skin, because technically most people there are white.

 

Afghanistan is also very tribal, so cultural values determined by your tribe/ethnicity matter more than the colour of your skin.

 

Also, black people (and dark people in general) would have a much harder time integrating in all of those places.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Arodash said:

China Japan South Korea Vietnam Afghanistan Syria many African nations

Thanks, could you give examples of laws those countries have designed against white people? I'm not being arsey here, just genuinely curious. I've  lived in countries where I was a minority as a white person (China, Madagascar, South Africa) and I experienced "white privilege" in those countries in a real day to day way that I never have in a majority white country. 

 

(I've put "white privilege" in quotes because to be honest I don't really fully understand how the term is used and can't be bothered to research it enough to gain that understanding or form an opinion on the subject)

[Aquatic Paradox]

3 minutes ago, Arodash said:

No they are not white they are Middle Eastern they are a type of Asian. 

 

That's like when people try to say the Slavic people and eurasians are white when they were not considered white people I gave my babushka's experiences her family were not considered white

So who are white? Germanic people?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

I dont know any laws of those nations. Only experiences from people I know from them.

 

In response to that I can tell you that there are no modern US laws that are racially motivated except affirmative action laws. 

Fair enough

[Aquatic Paradox]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Anglo germanic people up until the 20th century where what was considered white. 

So do you believe in Anglo-Germanic privilege?

[Blaiddmelyn]

11 minutes ago, Arodash said:

That's like when people try to say the Slavic people and eurasians are white when they were not considered white people I gave my babushka's experiences her family were not considered white

Counter-experience - nobody on the Slavic side of my family (including my own Babushka) has ever been considered not white. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Arodash said:

That's like when people try to say the Slavic people and eurasians are white when they were not considered white people I gave my babushka's experiences her family were not considered white

This is historically true, but is it currently true?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

currently yes, but the argument is that white privledge was created in the early days, so. How could people who where not considered white bennefit from such things?

Surely the point would be that is they were not considered white... then they didn't. 

[Aquatic Paradox]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

There are no other nations that are as diverse as the United States my whole family exist because I'm the Melting Pot that we are there is racism still in this country just like every other country what to think today people have more privilege simply because of the color of their skin is too generalized it looks people in where they may not belong. It is absurd in my personal opinion to look at someone and say that they are privileged just because of the color of their skin you are assuming things about them in what is it Martin Luther King Jr said we should judge people by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin. That's just like looking at a black man who is dressed in what people would call stereotypical gangster clothes and assuming that he is a criminal or a hoodlum you don't know him he could be a very upstanding citizen who simply likes that's fashion. Either way in the end you are judging someone based upon how they look

What you say is all technically true, but that doesn't mean white people aren't treated better by society at large (especially American society) than non-white people. It's not about individuals.