White Privilege

[Salmakia]

8 minutes ago, grez said:

i think we would be better served by leaving politics out of the debate for the moment.

Thank you, and yes.

 

For me, a lot of white privilege is the fact that I have to come to a discussion thread specifically talking about white privilege to even think about the fact that I am white. It's not something I think about every day when I'm driving, or walking late at night, or deciding whether to buy a Nerf gun. I don't think about my race when I'm watching TV, because most of the actors onscreen look like me. I don't think about my race at school, because most of my peers look like me and we're learning about people who look like me. 

 

You can make the same argument about allosexual privilege. Pretty much whenever I watch a movie with romance or see couples walking down the street, I think "damn, wouldn't it be nice if QPRs were more acceptable and normalized in our society? Or if not every movie had a sex scene?" I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure that most allosexuals don't think like that. They just...exist...because this society was built for them. That's privilege. 

[Alejandrogynous]

Being able to deny the existence of white privilege because you've "never seen it" is the epitome of white privilege. 

Of course it exists.
 

[Phi!]

I realised white privalege exists (for sure) when I saw an Amazon Prime documentary about race (called The Talk: Race in America) and there was one story of a black woman pastor who was questioned in her car then practically beaten just when trying to drive along a driveway to her home. Anyone can feel free to prove me wrong but I cannot believe that this would ever happen to a white person in a predominantly white country.

 

Here is an article about the story (which I think is worse than I made it sound) but warning, it's not a nice thing to read about or see. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3573306/Shocking-dashcam-footage-shows-Chicago-police-LAUGHING-pepper-spray-beat-female-pastor-children.html

[gisiebob]

the dog whistlin' orchestra! everyone knows acknowledging systemic racism is racist, yup. uh huh. that sure is some perfectly nice opinions that are facts that you folk came up with by your own selves. sometimes you just gotta smile and nod.

[grez]

4 minutes ago, Phi! said:

I realised white privalege exists (for sure) when I saw an Amazon Prime documentary about race (called The Talk: Race in America)

if you have netflix another really good documentary is "13th" which documents the history of systemic oppression of black people in the united states from the end of slavery to the present

[Philip027]

Quote

The idea of white privilege is a extremely racist and dangerous concept that has come out of the far left, the fact it is being accepted by mainstream liberals is very disturbing. The sooner people start treating each other as people and not by their race the better. You can't solve racism with more racism.

Oh please.  Recognizing that racial privilege exists is not itself racist.

 

Is it "sexist" to recognize that men are paid more on average than women?

[Madelise]

Just now, Philip027 said:

Oh please.  Recognizing that racial privilege exists is not itself racist.

 

Is it "sexist" to recognize that men are paid more on average than women?

Thank you!

[gisiebob]

1 hour ago, andreas1033 said:

My life was ruined by uk gov for being born of irish parents, in london during the troubles.

 

My life has been ruined every single day for 28 years.

 

Find one black person that was followed around like me, and ruining there life like mine. There is none. There is no black person who has had to live with what i had to live with for now 28 years, for no reason, other then uk/usa gov targeting my life for there fun.

 

My life proved that white people have no privilege.

so you are sayin'..."that your skin color isn't one of the things making [your life] harder"? or that your skin color is "Irish" instead of "white" and you have been excluded from white privilege because of that? 

regardless you seem to viscerally understand being discriminated against for an arbitrary characteristic of yours over which you have no agency over.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

To clear things up even more, "privilege" does not mean you've had life easy. It means you don't have to worry about systematic discrimination against that particular trait. That does not preclude the fact that there are POC who hate white people, but society at large gives preferential treatment to white peeps in the same way it gives preferential treatment to straight, cisgendered men of a certain age and wealth status (again, being where I live, I am well aware poor blokes have a very tough existence and end up on the streets and in prison a lot more often than women).

[grez]

@andreas1033 i'm sorry this has turned into a pile on and the part I played in it. What you went through isn't ok and I hope you can see the similarities between your experiences and those being faced today by minorities around the world including black people in America. I am British myself and am ashamed that I never learnt anything about the troubles in school of the discrimination which persists to this day.

 

please try and empathize with those looking for the same thing as you - equality 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

2 minutes ago, grez said:

I am British myself and am ashamed that I never learnt anything about the troubles in school of the discrimination which persists to this day.

It hasn't actually been allowed to be taught in schools, because I think it has to be at least 30 years on to count as history; same reason we never learnt.

[grez]

1 minute ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

It hasn't actually been allowed to be taught in schools, because I think it has to be at least 30 years on to count as history; same reason we never learnt.

ah... lol mb 

 

still you would think something as relevant to the modern UK could be slipped in there somewhere 

 

idk i studied ww2 like 4 times...

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I guess cos it's still going on (I mean they're in a stalemate, they haven't 'made peace' yet) it's a rather sensitive, political issue. I agree the bare facts should be taught, but given the difficulties in finding unbiased views, it might be better not to be taught.

 

WW2 however, has definitely ended. We even got a fancy treaty to say so.

[Mostly Peaceful Ryan]

2 hours ago, Elise Jennings said:

That's just idiotic! It's not racist, it's facts. I've gone through some tough stuff in my life, BUT it wasn't because I was white. White people can go through some tough shit, but it's not because they're white. White privilege exists. To say it doesn't is ignorant. I don't have to worry about getting attacked for being white.

For starters I would advice against assuming someone that disagrees with you on a socialogical theory is "idiotic" or "Ignorant" I have actually read books and taken classes on the subject, there us a difference between disagreement on political or sociological theories and being ignorant on the subject.  If your further responses are going to be ad hominem attacks,  than I don't see much of a point responding. In addition it is not "fact" it is a sociological theory, that has studies to support and studies that have debated the topic. There is no "fact" here. As for it "not being racism"; it is racism when you make judgements about people based on their race. As for white people not being attacked for their race in America, that is blatantly false. There are areas of my city I don't go 

 

 

1 hour ago, grez said:

its not racist to critique society and the institutions which systematically oppress certain groups of that society

Making judgments on people based on race is racism. Just because the target might be racism doesn't justify using racism to take it down. The problem with the KKK is that they are racist, focus on that. If you want to stop racism stop judging people on their race altogether, the solution is not to try and uses discrimination to make an equal outcome.

 

1 hour ago, grez said:

no hate but i think we would be better served by leaving politics out of the debate for the moment. Party politics shouldn't play a part in determining the existence of something. The role of politics in a debate like this is what should be done were it agreed that white privilege exists. Bringing politics into the debate will likely just cause people to take sides and block out the other side's arguments without considering them.

 

I know this happens because I often find myself guilty of unfairly dismissing views that come from a political party i disagree with 

Possibly true,  but my post on the subject is going for the foundation of the argument being flawed entirely.

 

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

Oh please.  Recognizing that racial privilege exists is not itself racist.

 

Is it "sexist" to recognize that men are paid more on average than women?

Recognizing racism exist is not what I am calling racist, I am calling white privilege racist. White privilege is racist because it is assuming someone is privileged because they are white. White people are not free from racial discrimination. I would say the arguments of "Male privilege" is also sexist. If you want me to get into a debate on pay difference between the gender, I would be fine with that, or you could look into Thomas Sowell's position on the topic, I am not far off from him.

 

1 hour ago, gisiebob said:

the dog whistlin' orchestra

Oh yes the racist dog whistle of people wanting to live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. 🙄

[Phi!]

10 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

Making judgments on people based on race is racism

But nobody is judging white people for having privilege. It is just stating that in terms of race, in white majority countries, white people will unfortunately be in a fortunate position due to the colour of their skin.

 

10 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

I would say the arguments of "Male privilege" is also sexist.

It is becoming unclear whether you are against the terms specifically calling out race / gender as being racist/sexist or whether you fundamentally disagree with privilege being something that exists in society (and specifically that privilege exists in areas of our life that we can't really change such as our gender, the colour of our skin, etc) as something I have previously seen you say suggests.

[grez]

6 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

the solution is not to try and uses discrimination to make an equal outcome.

the only equality of outcome that i am advocating for is probability of being killed in a police encounter all else being equal. I would say that using discrimination to achieve an equal outcome would be something like police quotas where they have to arrest a certain proportion of each race. I simply want to change the system such that people are treated equally, trying to get rid of racism isn't itself racist 

 

12 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

The problem with the KKK is that they are racist

they killed people. They wouldn't be good people if they decided lynchings randomly rather than based off skin colour 

 

13 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

If you want to stop racism stop judging people on their race altogether

could you clarify if you think attacking a system which targets black people is judging their race. The way I see it you are only judging the system which is in place at the moment

[Madelise]

21 minutes ago, Mostly Peaceful Ryan said:

For starters I would advice against assuming someone that disagrees with you on a socialogical theory is "idiotic" or "Ignorant" I have actually read books and taken classes on the subject, there us a difference between disagreement on political or sociological theories and being ignorant on the subject.  If your further responses are going to be ad hominem attacks,  than I don't see much of a point responding. In addition it is not "fact" it is a sociological theory, that has studies to support and studies that have debated the topic. There is no "fact" here. As for it "not being racism"; it is racism when you make judgements about people based on their race. As for white people not being attacked for their race in America, that is blatantly false. There are areas of my city I don't go 

I didn't say you were idiotic, I said the statement was idiotic. And saying privilege (specifically white privilege in this case) doesn't exist is ignorance. I think you're grasping at straws honestly. You're not going to get attacked just because you're white. And how is saying white people have privilege racist? Make that make sense. That's like taking offense to the word cracker. Jeez...

[gisiebob]

pointing out racism is racist, guys. that's just the way the world works. yup. can't do nothin' about it.
pack it up, boys. we've been beat

[GingerRose]

Okay so why am I advocating strongly for this idea of White privilege? Just for it to supported as an existent term isn't enough. White privilege looks for a few things:

1. Recognition: recognizing that it exists.

2. Understanding, learning , and experiencing why it matters

3. Making a change.

If all lives matter, then all lives deserve to be treated in a way that which another race doesn't have more privilege over another.

 

The point of white privilege is not to say that privilege affects every aspect of a white person's life. It's not saying that a white person's life is easy. It's saying in the best terms that words can form for myself at this time: That white skin and white people have certain privileges in certain situations in life, as a critique on society, that isn't okay. White privilege creates racism, it creates a negative self image for some people who aren't white, usually affecting children. It affects what is put first before a person's character. I didn't ask for white privilege, I didn't ask to have my race be put out there as a privilege, just as people of other races don't want their race to define all of their person, but unfortunately that is how society is, and I want a change.

 

*personal stuff*

My family went through severe poverty and they are white.

I have been through abuse and I am white.

I struggle with mental health, trauma, and disorders, and I am white.

I'm not saying white privilege cancels any of this out that millions of Americans face. 

There are some people who are not white who are very rich.

There are people who are not white who face good homes without abuse.

There are people who are not white who have good mental health and no disorders.

I am not ruling any experiences of anyone whether they be white or of another race.

I am simply critiquing society on how white people are treated different than black people.

 

 

[GingerRose]

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

   "a program to combat racism"

    

    

   Just leaving this here for reference.

[GingerRose]

I feel satisfied with my posts on this topic. Feel free to keep discussing! Be respectful!

 

My final word. Provoke thoughts, learn something new, change perspectives, gain new understandings, here if my goal. ❤️ 

[Guest]

White privilege, isn't to state that white people can't struggle. That they aren't subject to discrimination, nor that some white people would not fall under groups that are marginalized (I.E LGBTQ community, to name one).

 

Its to point out that in the US at least, that you have had laws designed specifically, to castrate black people and minorities.

 

Do you think the 3 strikes law came about to target white people?

 

When white law makers were forced to accept that slavery was abolished, do you think they found a loophole in jailing blacks for bullshit charges so they could enslave them legally via slave labor while incarcerated was also designed for white people?

 

The prior point still goes on to this day, in a clearly antiquated system many have not been in a rush to change. Why is that?

 

The prison system in the US is a highly lucrative one, which disproportionately incarcerates black people.

 

Black celebrities of influence, can talk about selling drugs, or killing people and its fine. But if a white person does the same (I.E Eminem), they are up in arms about the harm to their kids. Influencing the black community into a life of crime, is socially acceptable. Why is that?

 

A life in jail, is a life doing slave labor for some. Why isn't there an outcry about this? Think that would be the same if the majority of inmates were white?

 

Being white is a privilege. Simply put. You being white won't stop you from living in an affluent neighborhood, to give one point.

 

Being black in the US, has many avoiding affluent neighborhoods and townships, feeling unwelcome.  Many preferring to live in parts of the city which are more heavily populated by minorities even though many have the money to "move up". Why is that?

 

How are some cities in the US, designed to have predominantly white suburbs, and then cut to one crime infested part of a city, and you're dealing with mostly black people and minorities?

 

You might get stared at being white with a skin condition that makes it stand out, but being black is permanent. You're being judged by your skin color, not by its condition.

 

The thing with white privilege I don't like however, is the fact that it is a blanket statement. Not all white people benefit from it. This also has to be recognized.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I'd like to reiterate the statement AVEN gave:

 

 

(This was publish in the recent AVENues on page 4)

[Grimalkin]

25 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

The thing with white privilege I don't like however, is the fact that it is a blanket statement. Not all white people benefit from it. This also has to be recognized.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that all white people benefit from appearing white (in America), but that white privilege isn't the only privilege out there? A white person being poor or disabled or whatever else doesn't mean they don't experience white privilege, just that they're lacking the other privileges that comes from being rich or able-bodied, etc.

[AspieAlly613]

2 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Wouldn't it be fair to say that all white people benefit from appearing white (in America), but that white privilege isn't the only privilege out there? A white person being poor or disabled or whatever else doesn't mean they don't experience white privilege, just that they're lacking the other privileges that comes from being rich or able-bodied, etc.

Nah, there are definitely some White-specific stereotypes with negative associations who definitely do not benefit from their grouping.  (Rednecks, etc.)

[Madelise]

3 minutes ago, AspieAlly613 said:

Nah, there are definitely some White-specific stereotypes with negative associations who definitely do not benefit from their grouping.  (Rednecks, etc.)

I mean, the rednecks in Missouri seem to be doing just fine 😂 

[Grimalkin]

21 minutes ago, AspieAlly613 said:

Nah, there are definitely some White-specific stereotypes with negative associations who definitely do not benefit from their grouping.  (Rednecks, etc.)

But those rednecks still find that the majority of people in power in America look like them, that the majority of people in American media look like them, that the majority of book characters in America share their race, and that the cops who live in their area-- probably rednecks themselves-- are not participating in any kind of profiling based on their skin color. White people are still the "default" in America.

 

This isn't to say that anyone who is white is automatically immune from stereotyping or other kinds of profiling. There are many other kinds of privileges out there. A quote from this essay sums it up: 
 

Quote

For example, I often hear, “I don’t have white privilege because I’m working class.” White working class people do not have the same socioeconomic privileges as white upper-middle class people. But, while class privileges are being withheld from them, they are given the same skin color privileges.

The thing about "white privilege" is that, much like systemic racism, it's hard to sum up in some kind of compact sentence. Attempting to do so will result in a multitude of people protesting that it isn't like that, and that might be true; it's probably not exactly like however it was summed up. But debating whether any one of us as a white person fits into the privilege is not really the point; in arguing, we are making it about ourselves again, and not exercising the ability to try and see it from the point of view of the people of color who are decidedly not on the receiving end of whatever white privilege really is. 

[gisiebob]

1 hour ago, AspieAlly613 said:

Nah, there are definitely some White-specific stereotypes with negative associations who definitely do not benefit from their grouping.  (Rednecks, etc.)

in the example of rednecks. say they are stereotyped as rednecks, and are disadvantaged as such, do you think they do not additionally experience white privilege? like, can you from a stranger receive a whack in the face and an ice cream bar?

[Mostly Peaceful Ryan]

4 hours ago, Phi! said:

But nobody is judging white people for having privilege. It is just stating that in terms of race, in white majority countries, white people will unfortunately be in a fortunate position due to the colour of their skin.

Yes, saying someone has a privilege based on their race in these cases is judging them on their skin. I'm not saying some people aren't blessed or privilege, I am saying attributing these to being white, and saying all white people have these "privileges" is false and racist.

 

4 hours ago, grez said:

the only equality of outcome that i am advocating for is probability of being killed in a police encounter all else being equal. I would say that using discrimination to achieve an equal outcome would be something like police quotas where they have to arrest a certain proportion of each race. I simply want to change the system such that people are treated equally, trying to get rid of racism isn't itself racist 

I think you and I could probably find similar ground on this topic and I agree trying to get rid of racism, in itself is not racist, I am not arguing that point.

 

4 hours ago, grez said:

they killed people. They wouldn't be good people if they decided lynchings randomly rather than based off skin colour 

I agree with this. I am just unsure if they would have motive to kill if they were not racist. But they possibly could, I have no idea.

 

4 hours ago, grez said:

could you clarify if you think attacking a system which targets black people is judging their race. The way I see it you are only judging the system which is in place at the moment

So in your previous, statement you are against Police targeting black people for their race, I would support going after police departments that do this, I am unsure if this is an issue with every police department across the country. I think the issue comes in when statements are made with white privilege because it pushes a narrative that is untrue, for many, that white people don't deal with some of these issues. For Example I know white people that have been pulled over for being white and were told they were in the wrong neighborhood and to leave.

 

4 hours ago, Elise Jennings said:

I didn't say you were idiotic, I said the statement was idiotic. And saying privilege (specifically white privilege in this case) doesn't exist is ignorance. I think you're grasping at straws honestly. You're not going to get attacked just because you're white. And how is saying white people have privilege racist? Make that make sense. That's like taking offense to the word cracker. Jeez...

Okay so to be clear I am happy that you have never been attacked for your race, but that is not true for every white person in America. The problem I have with "White privilege" is it groups white people together as if they all have the same experience, that to me is racist. I want to be treated as an individual and that is how I treat others.

 

Back in 2016, Gregory Alfred, a black man, slashed Janina Popko, 53 year old  white woman,  in the neck in Brooklyn, when he was arrested he told police quote "I cut her because she was white".

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/n-man-cut-woman-brooklyn-white-article-1.2573520

 

https://nypost.com/2016/03/22/man-says-he-slashed-woman-because-she-was-white/

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Wouldn't it be fair to say that all white people benefit from appearing white (in America), but that white privilege isn't the only privilege out there? A white person being poor or disabled or whatever else doesn't mean they don't experience white privilege, just that they're lacking the other privileges that comes from being rich or able-bodied, etc.

I do think being white is a privilege whether you benefit from it or not.

 

I sort of see it like being attractive and fit. You get advantages in society again, that not all will benefit from (but there is a clear advantage, especially in some lines of work).