White Privilege

[Missing]

I smell victim blaming.

[Forest Spirit]

.

[Forest Spirit]

It's not an opinion but an observation, but I'll leave it at that

[Fraggle Underdark]

10 minutes ago, Arodash said:

This is patently false. Its pretty even accross the board. But your free to your opinion

Yet another bizarre baseless claim. There's good data on this. This study for example found that the rates African-American men are killed by police is double the national average.

[Missing]

19 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Yeah, it happens, but thats not white privledge because it happens to white people too.

White privilege does not mean white people are never mistreated, it means white people are mistreated on the basis of race less often on average than people of color. I've lost count of how many times I've had to point this out. It's one thing to misunderstand what this concept refers to, but it's another thing to continue to straw man this concept after it's been pointed out to you repeatedly that you're misrepresenting it.

[Fraggle Underdark]

Just now, Arodash said:

  I am still of the opinion that when you attribute privilege to race it is racist or not going to change my mind on this

I think we gave up on changing your mind long ago.

[Missing]

Just now, Arodash said:

I am still of the opinion that when you attribute privilege to race it is racist or not going to change my mind on this

I'm not saying you can't think the wording used to describe the concept is racist (I know you prefer the term "majority privilege" to describe the exact same thing), I'm saying you're continuously misrepresenting what the concept of white privilege means.

[Fraggle Underdark]

Just now, Arodash said:

 Im not engaging with you anymore

Thank you!

[Missing]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

no im not. Im pointing out the flaws of calling it white privledge

Sometimes that's the line of argument you take, talking about why you believe using a race qualifier to describe the concept is racist.

 

But that's not what you were doing here:

26 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Yeah, it happens, but thats not white privledge because it happens to white people too.

Here you were making the argument that white people sometimes being mistreated disproves white privilege, even though it's been pointed out numerous times that it doesn't because the concept of white privilege is in fact compatible with white people being mistreated so long as they're mistreated at a lower rate than people of color, as is the case in the US. If we get to the point where this is no longer the case, that will be a victory, but right now, the trend is that people of color have a harder time in the US on average than white people do on average. I've been putting "on average" in italics because that qualifier keeps getting ignored.

[Missing]

3 minutes ago, Arodash said:

You also took me out of context as I said such brutality is actually rather even accross the board when we also take into account the other minority groups.

I quoted your entire post.

[Forest Spirit]

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[Missing]

7 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Look above. You missed this one

I assumed that was related only to the post you had quoted, not the completion of the thought you began in the post you had made before it. If you had said "this is is not white privilege because it's pretty even across the board" I wouldn't have said anything. But that's not what your earlier post said. You said it's not white privilege because it happens to white people too, which is not an argument against white privilege. But if you meant to say that it's not white privilege because (you believe) it's pretty even across the board, then I'll stop harping on you about it.

[Missing]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

When people ignore my evidence. I ignore theirs

I don't think this policy is fair to you. The way someone presents a link to evidence doesn't change whether or not that evidence is reliable. If you want to believe what's true, I would urge you to reconsider this. If they ignore your evidence and your evidence is reliable, that's their loss. By the same token, ignoring their evidence out of spite, if their evidence is reliable, would be your loss.

[Fraggle Underdark]

27 minutes ago, Arodash said:

When people ignore my evidence. I ignore theirs, plain and simple, dont like it? Dont ignore contrary evidence and others will give you the courtesy

I have found this to be false. You ignore our evidence whether or not we ignore yours.

[Fraggle Underdark]

53 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Believe what you like

Some people follow the path of believing what they like, I prefer to try and believe what's true

[crucis]

3 hours ago, Arodash said:

 Do you know how many of those were considered justified? 

As someone who's been placed in a law enforcement role before, I think this is an important point.

 

(Nope, I don't have the stats, but I have heard this counterpoint being used, and anyone interested in strengthening their argument can look into it).

[Skycaptain]

Locking this for a cool-down, Skycaptain moderator PPS 

[Skycaptain]

Unlocking this. Please keep the discussion civil, or it will be locked permanently. Skycaptain moderator PPS

[Alaska Native Manitou]

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2020/08/31/tennessee-gov-bill-lee-anti-protest-law-and-abuse-white-privilege/5652285002/?ocid=uxbndlbing

[JDP]

14 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2020/08/31/tennessee-gov-bill-lee-anti-protest-law-and-abuse-white-privilege/5652285002/?ocid=uxbndlbing

How can you call him privileged if you know nothing about him.

 

Has he personally abused any black person?

[Alaska Native Manitou]

33 minutes ago, JDP said:

How can you call him privileged if you know nothing about him.

 

Has he personally abused any black person?

On another thread, JDP said:  

Yes, that's a common fallacy. What you're overlooking is the disproportionate number of crimes committed by black men, which accounts for their disproportionate arrest rate.

 

How can you call them criminals if you know nothing about them.  Have the 47.8 million black people of America personally abused you?

[ElloryJaye]

The best analogy I've ever come across is that it's like difficulty levels in a video game.

 

To expand on that, let's say that life is an FPS with randomly generated content.  It has a "default character" that's the average of every single person in the world (so no one actually gets the default character).

 

A straight, able-bodied white cismale gets 20% extra health and one-and-a-half times the ammo of the default character, plus an extra healing medicine.  He can still lose the game if it randomly throws the wrong terrain or large concentrations of bad guys at him (or if he's like me and sucks at FPSs), but his chances of getting through any given level are more than average.

 

By contrast, a handicapped black lesbian would start with 10% less health than the default, half the ammo, and her starting gun would shoot six degrees off-target.  She can still win the game if she works her ass off and/or it throws her fewer enemies or better terrain, but her chances of getting through any given level are much, much lower than the white guy's.

 

That's privilege.

 

[JDP]

4 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

How can you call them criminals if you know nothing about them

Well most arrests do result in a conviction of some kind, and if a suspect is on parole, it's an automatic conviction. There isn't even a trial.

 

6 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

Have the 47.8 million black people of America personally abused you?

Of course not. They're the ones most abused by criminals, who are mostly black and Latino.

[JDP]

6 minutes ago, ElloryJaye said:

The best analogy I've ever come across is that it's like difficulty levels in a video game.

 

To expand on that, let's say that life is an FPS with randomly generated content.  It has a "default character" that's the average of every single person in the world (so no one actually gets the default character).

 

A straight, able-bodied white cismale gets 20% extra health and one-and-a-half times the ammo of the default character, plus an extra healing medicine.  He can still lose the game if it randomly throws the wrong terrain or large concentrations of bad guys at him (or if he's like me and sucks at FPSs), but his chances of getting through any given level are more than average.

 

By contrast, a handicapped black lesbian would start with 10% less health than the default, half the ammo, and her starting gun would shoot six degrees off-target.  She can still win the game if she works her ass off and/or it throws her fewer enemies or better terrain, but her chances of getting through any given level are much, much lower than the white guy's.

 

That's privilege.

 

No it's not. Asians outperform all the other racial or ethnic groups. Are they privileged?

 

So do Jews and gay men. Are they also privileged?

 

https://quillette.com/2019/08/22/why-white-privilege-is-wrong-part-1/

https://quillette.com/2019/10/16/why-white-privilege-is-wrong-part-2/

 

[MakeupJunkie4]

I'm not here to debate this, I just want to say...it's glaringly obvious that there's 2 extreme sides being presented here, and neither one is getting anywhere in this conversation.

...but hey, if debating's your thing, carry on. I'm out.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, JDP said:

Are they privileged?

Many of the Asian families that immigrate to the US, are highly affluent regarding their financial and educational statuses when they left their respective countries. 

 

Many come there highly skilled. Highly educated. Academically, the US is often humiliated by many countries in Asia. 

 

Nevertheless, many of them become successful via heavy handed sacrifices, and having to work harder than their white peers. This doesn't stop.

 

No matter how successful, they are still Asian. A life in fast food, or working three jobs is the norm for many. Definitely not for the lack of skill. Salaries don't tell the entire tale. 

 

So no. Definitely not privileged. 

 

Many black people are born in a system that castrates them from the moment they are born. 

 

I have worked with gay men that had they not been open about it, nobody would have known (or cared). 

 

A white gay male, often times won't have the same challenges as say, a Muslim gay male. Again. Numbers and stats don't tell the entire tale. 

 

Same as someone Jewish. My best friend growing up was Jewish. Had she not told me, I would have been none the wiser. Whereas one of my peers was visibly Jewish. He got bullied and ridiculed.

 

When your skin color dictates how one may treat you, its a whole lot harder to hide. 

 

Its not a level playing field. 

[JDP]

18 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Its not a level playing field.

It's not supposed to be.

 

Certain people can rise above, certain people can't. That's attributable to life, not race.

[JDP]

36 minutes ago, MakeupJunkie444 said:

it's glaringly obvious that there's 2 extreme sides being presented here, and neither one is getting anywhere in this conversation.

That's not the point of conversation.

[Comrade F&F]

White privilege isn't only in the US. You know what white people are overseas?

 

Money.

 

Shopkeepers zero in on them to buy souvenirs. Taxi cabs will flock to the white tourists first. Local cultures dole their heritage like an exotic parade to be enjoyed. If you're white and you go to a non-white country, you basically have a target on you that says 'I'm rich.'

 

So yes. White privilege exists.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, JDP said:

That's attributable to life, not race.

Environment plays a huge role too.