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Sexuals - Initial Attraction Thoughts?

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Serran

who said toni had a penis lol

Erm, it's possible for sex to be non-painful while masturbation is painful with a vagina? I only know of this happening for those with penises.

I knew someone who really liked the feeling of something inserted just right, in a way that couldn't be reached using only the hands, and she reported was very difficult to reach with a toy. so I imagine it's more common for a man yes, which is why I lol'd because I'd likely have assumed the same. but, I think that it is possible for a vagina-sporting person to have a similar experience, that masturbation doesn't work. if the clitoris doesn't have the right kinda sensation, that direct touch does nothing somehow, but that a certain penetrative angle does stimulate... whatever... *doesn't know anatomy well enough*

I suppose this theoretic female "toni" could actually call herself "broken" lol xD

Teags, if I remember you're the one who was against oddly specific situations earlier.

:o you caught me :redface:

Hrm. I have angle issues the other way around. Due to having lack of control when it's a real human penis, sex can be quite painful due to angle, but inserting things myself is not because if I notice bad angle, I can immediately adjust. Angle issues are not that uncommon, spots in there can hurt if jabbed wrong. But, OK, I guess certain sexual positions might make certain angles easier and are hard to simulate solo, if they are more "exotic" positions.

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humantoafault
Well I've never had sex and I'm pretty sure I do desire it within certain contexts...even if I may never have it. But seems so, yeah.

Would you follow through if the opportunity presented itself or is if more of a fantasy thing?

For me there is a lot of hoops that would have to be jumped through. lol This is largely because of my beliefs. When it comes to personal matters I am pretty sexually conservative. I don't think all of it is due to my beliefs, though, because if I had a desire to act outside of my beliefs I tend to think I would notice it.

But if all the hoops were jumped through, then I would act on it yes.

The general desire is there, I just don't specifically desire it unless my criteria were to be met. I don't think this makes me grey-a, because I would not want to be in a long term, understood-to-possibly-lead-to-marriage relationship without sex being an eventual possibility. (If there were understood to be a grey area on the sexual side of the spectrum, though, I would probably be there.)

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Ricecream-man

Bob's a sensual hedonist. Still counts. Sex is a compromise to get something he wants vs him wanting to have sex.

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Serran

The Bob situation is one that's already been discussed and addressed. If it's purely for the partner's satisfaction and you wouldn't want it if they didn't seem to have the need for it then yes you're still asexual.

ooh, I have an update on the bob scenario that is interesting.

imagine bob is lith :o oh wait no lith isn't what I'm thinking, exactly. scratch that

bob finds that there is something about his partners who are sexual that he likes and it's a non-sexual thing. like, sexuals make sex jokes and he likes sex jokes. or, sexuals tend to dress up pretty but w/e and it's something that he knows COULD be found in an asexual partner, but bob is addicted to dating. for romance reasons. so it's easier for bob to seek out sexuals, because while he could go from ace to ace they just don't as often have this (nonsexual) trait that bob is attracted to. so bob prefers sexual relationships, but not because of sex.

or imagine bob likes making out a heck of a lot, and most of the aces he meets do not like to make out. but sexual girls usually love it. so bob could go for any girl who would make out with him lots, but just finds it easier to have sex just so he has an excuse to make out.

I know my examples were really poor here, and make bob look ignorant... :( I hope you can ignore that part of it....

edit: you probably could scratch the "preferences" even, and just say bob is super romantic but can't find other aces very often and doesn't use internet dating sites. so he "decides" that he will have sex just for the sake of dating.

Then Bob still doesn't want the sex, just things he feels he cannot get without sex (at least not easily) so he is still just compromising for what he wants.

And yeah your pain scenario doesn't sound too common... but I imagine there is a method of masturbation that would still work, probably something not "normal" though so not often thought of. If sex works, masturbation can, just might take being creative. I've heard some "odd" ways of masturbating from people, who just had to find what worked and it took them years and years to do it. So, Toni and others would still have hope. :)

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Float On

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Serran

also before anyone makes any assumptions about me, neither Bob nor Toni are supposed to be me. I do face something like Toni's dilemma to some extent, but well let's just say she's not me. if you're curious I might be convinced to talk about it in some other thread or over pm I suppose...

Well, Bob and Toni sound kinda different, so would be hard to be both. :D

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Float On

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Serran

ikr lol

I am just anxious too much :( worry about everything

It's OK :D But, nothing to worry about! Feel free to speak your mind and give all the scenarios you want.

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Tarfeather

@Serran: It occurs to me that by "desiring sex" you mean something very specific. I never meant it to mean "desiring sex specifically and nothing else would do". I just meant someone going "Yeah, having sex again would be nice, I wouldn't mind doing that over masturbation". Not that they'd be totally devastated if they couldn't have sex again.

Why would I want to do anything together that felt like pulling teeth to the other person?

I don't really understand your point because I feel the same way and I'm sexual.

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Guest

No the former would not be asexual in my mind.

Not all sexual people are sex-craved maniacs from a young age :P Some people just don't really place much of an importance on sex, don't think about it a whole lot growing up, then get a partner and actually begin to experiment with sexually intimacy. Much of the time they will find it deeply enjoyable and pleasurable, and as a result do feel like sexual intimacy is an important part of their relationship (and future relationships) due to how good it feels etc.

People like this are not asexual by default just for not having sex constantly on their mind, or just because their motivation in getting a partner wasn't sex.

Honestly I actually don't think it's that uncommon for a sexual person to not really get what the big deal about sex is until they actually start partaking in sexual activity and realize how pleasurable (emotionally and physically) it is, usually sometime in their teens.

For me, the former could easily ID as asexual up until the point they discovered they really do want that in their life, then transition, much like we've had members do in the past (much like Pan has done, for example). Kinda like anyone who doesn't know their orientation until something happens to cause that epiphany moment. It'd be one thing if they just found out they like the sensations, then were like "well, I can take it or leave it, if someone else wants it, I can enjoy it ... but I am not going to actively go out and look for it, or make it a relationship requirement or anything". But, to decide "I now want sex in my life, because it was special enough that I don't want to continue living without it" .. well, to me, that would an awakened sexual desire. Of course, they can ID as what they want, so my opinion on it is limited to basically how I would ID if in that situation myself.

Kinda like, I didn't know I liked broccoli cause I never had it before. My partner made me, under protest (I assumed I would hate it, it looks like a tree!), try broccoli. Now, GIMME ALL THE BROCCOLIS! ... I can't call myself abroccoli just cause I didn't want it before (well, I could, but I won't). :D

The second, yes of course they'd still be sexual. Having ED or vaginismus doesn't make one asexual.

Consider +1 to both these quotes my version of getting back to it after a good night's sleep. I have nothing to add but agreement. :cake:

But, if you are seeking out people when your libido flares up because you feel like partnered sex would be so much better than masturbation. Seek out a sexual relationship because you decided sex feels so good you want that in your life. And yet you're still asexual. What then separates sexuals and asexuals?

The choice of label and belonging to a "club" on the internet, that's all there is. So, if we let that fly, I would have to say that "asexuality" is 100% purely a conscious choice; you'd be no more "born asexual" than you are "born Catholic" or "born Democrat". Comparing it to celibacy/abstinence is an infinitely closer miss than comparing it to being gay.

As such, asexuality would then not belong anywhere near real orientations or the LGBT+ movement, and would likely be better off seeking closeness with ideological celibacy/"purity" movements (for sex-repulsed/averse "asexuals") or self-help places for folks who have a problem with not having found the right partner yet (for sex-favorable "asexuals"). Sex-indifferent "asexuals" probably don't have any need for any kind of community, as apathy isn't much of a stance that leads to seeking like-minded folks out. :P Either way, these three groups have so little in common that they're probably better off going separate ways,

As a whole, "asexuals" would forever structurally (!) have more in common with people who choose an ideology to follow, than with people of minority orientations. We could only harm the latter by intruding on their spaces.

Hmm, Skulls. Would you consider yourself homoflexible by any chance? I've seen the term pop up a few times and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

If we're going by AVEN terminology I say I'm pansexual homoromantic, so it's the "romantic" part I think that kicks it over the edge for me, i.e., why I'm always going to choose the girl.

S.S. Skulls fires torpedo against being used in these examples... *dice roll* Critical Hit! S.S. Argument starts sinking! 8)

(Sorry. my inner gamer geek coming through. Carry on, nothing to see here... :blush: )

@Serran: It occurs to me that by "desiring sex" you mean something very specific. I never meant it to mean "desiring sex specifically and nothing else would do". I just meant someone going "Yeah, having sex again would be nice, I wouldn't mind doing that over masturbation". Not that they'd be totally devastated if they couldn't have sex again.

Why Mysticus thinks Tar sounds kinda gray-ace: Add one. :) :cake:

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Philip027
I don't really understand your point because I feel the same way and I'm sexual.

I'm not trying to say it's an asexual vs sexual thing. I was just explaining how I fit into the sort of category described in what I quoted.

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Guest

something that I've been considering: "sexual attraction" seems to be commonly considered to mean "first sight attraction" but the thing is, that I think "attraction for general sexual content" to be a form of sexual attraction. and there are many people who when they hear demi say, "isn't that what attraction actually is???" that shows that that mistaken "demi" experience is also attraction. I feel that "sexual attraction" could remain the definition, if it was made so that the definition for "sexual attraction" was better at encompassing these various flavors. I know that Skully is like, "I don't feel sexual attraction" but, from the way she is describing it, I wouldn't be surprised if something about what I'm say here sparks an "oh - yeah" moment for her lol :P but I might be overestimating my ability to speak my thoughts -_- But like, in the way she "Loves boobs" and has talked about sex, I see hints at something that I'd at the moment call "slow attraction" that isn't so much directed until a relationship is really developed. that it's present without a relationship, and creates a more subtle or maybe more general drive for contact some day, or maybe not for contact specifically but well IDK my words aren't working very well *waves white flag to words*

(sorry skulls, for using you as an example so brutally D: please forgive me xD)

Yes, I have a sort of generalized sexual interest that has no target until I dig someone, but unlike many people, I have no issue firing arrows even if there's no target in sight.

All that being true, what does that mean to you in the context of sexual attraction? What that says to me is that wanting sex is wanting sex, and feeling attraction to the person you're banging can be, but doesn't need to be, a component of the innate draw toward sexual activity.

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butterflydreams

Reading this thread makes me feel like commander Spock. Fascinating :O

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Float On

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Autumn Season

also before anyone makes any assumptions about me, neither Bob nor Toni are supposed to be me. I do face something like Toni's dilemma to some extent, but well let's just say she's not me. if you're curious I might be convinced to talk about it in some other thread or over pm I suppose...

Well, Bob and Toni sound kinda different, so would be hard to be both. :D

xD Nice, I'm still chuckling, an hour after I first read this.

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Ricecream-man

something that I've been considering: "sexual attraction" seems to be commonly considered to mean "first sight attraction" but the thing is, that I think "attraction for general sexual content" to be a form of sexual attraction. and there are many people who when they hear demi say, "isn't that what attraction actually is???" that shows that that mistaken "demi" experience is also attraction. I feel that "sexual attraction" could remain the definition, if it was made so that the definition for "sexual attraction" was better at encompassing these various flavors. I know that Skully is like, "I don't feel sexual attraction" but, from the way she is describing it, I wouldn't be surprised if something about what I'm say here sparks an "oh - yeah" moment for her lol :P but I might be overestimating my ability to speak my thoughts -_- But like, in the way she "Loves boobs" and has talked about sex, I see hints at something that I'd at the moment call "slow attraction" that isn't so much directed until a relationship is really developed. that it's present without a relationship, and creates a more subtle or maybe more general drive for contact some day, or maybe not for contact specifically but well IDK my words aren't working very well *waves white flag to words*

(sorry skulls, for using you as an example so brutally D: please forgive me xD)

Yes, I have a sort of generalized sexual interest that has no target until I dig someone, but unlike many people, I have no issue firing arrows even if there's no target in sight.

All that being true, what does that mean to you in the context of sexual attraction? What that says to me is that wanting sex is wanting sex, and feeling attraction to the person you're banging can be, but doesn't need to be, a component of the innate draw toward sexual activity.

It means that sexuality isn't just one flavor. some sexual people define their experience off of attraction towards people while others off of general interest in sex and/or relationship with those people instead. There's probably other flavors as well.

which then means, asexuality is none of those experiences. someone who is drawn towards a sexual lifestyle is experiencing the form of sexual attraction that you feel.

Did Teagan just agree with everything we've been saying? :P

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Float On

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Guest

the thing I disagree with is the idea that an exclusive definition gives people the right to think they understand others perfectly just because they s said one phrase one way

Then I think we're all in perfect agreement because no one here had ever said, and knowing all you fine folk, I know you don't think that you "understand others perfectly."

I do have a nitpick though. We ALL have the right to think whatever we want. You keep talking about the right to think a certain thing and really, that's an inalienable right, the right to think anything we want to think.

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Float On

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Tarfeather

Then my question is - what difference is there between an asexual that has sex for the personal pleasure of it and a sexual that has sex for the personal pleasure of it? Both seek it out. Both want it. Both find it pleasurable enough to continue doing. Both are going to have their reasons for picking a preferred sexual partner (aesthetic attraction, trust, etc, etc). Both may or may not desire a relationship. I can think of a bunch of ways they would be similar. But, I can think of no way they would be different, unless the "magical feeling sexuals feel that asexuals do not" actually does exist. In which case, what is this magical feeling, so those of us who do not know can know if we feel it or not?

As a rule of thumb? A sexual would see a big difference between masturbating/using sex toys and sex. An asexual would not (not in the positive way, anyway).

It's a difficult question, but the same is true for romantic orientation and I've never heard anyone complain that all those aromantics in QPR's must actually be romantics, as clearly they desire a relationship and all. The reason nobody's suggested that is because it would be silly, and it's equally silly to suggest that if somebody enjoys physical sexual stimulation with another, they must necessarily be sexual.

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Float On

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Guest

it's just, some of the times when many of you respond to the example of some person who feels some way, you make some sort of statement as if the person is offensive. and I am afraid that you think it's ok to say that sorta thing to an actual person. or what if the actual person came up with a theoretic person to see if it's safe for them to come out of the closet? then the response was just shunning them, but no one knows but them, and IDK

I just.. I want you to have your oppions. but there are ways to share them without shunning the person you have them about...

I guess, it's more often Pan or Myst that I've seen say something I felt was too harsh, sometimes Serran or Skully or Tar do step on toes but as soon as they realise they have I've seen them be pretty apologetic. and like, ok yea you don't have to be apologetic like that all the time and dance around people like their glass but the thing is, the thing that's really important is all of us being high-count posters, and active members, we aren't just people going through our day on AVEN, we are the representation of the community. we gotta remember to treat new members with respect and forgiveness. yell at each other sure, but tiptoe around the new members as if they're precious goldfoil. if you want to encourage the growth of the community.

also it's other members of the community too, I just am terrible with names and can only think of those five names right now lol

edit: lol I totally wouldn't mind if someone pm'd me this long rant and said "Teagan can you translate this for me please to kindhearted words and go post on this thread pretty please <3"

Ohhhhhh.

I'm actually pretty nice to people, or try to be. Not while arguing concepts, thoughts, philosophies, politics, etc... my opinion on that is, if you've jumped into an argument, then you gotta accept that arguing will happen. :lol: But someone who comes asking about their situation, trying to figure stuff out, looking for support... no no no, that is NOT the time to argue. I agree with you that everyone deserves the same respect regardless of whether I think their opinion about themselves is a bit skewed. The only time in those scenarios when I'll get grumpy is if they start saying shit about sexuals... and even then most of the time I don't really care. ;)

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Float On

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Guest

@Teags...

I'm someone who needs logical consistency, it drives me crazy if something doesn't make sense... so yeah, I point out - often with a dissecting scalpel, and at times with scathing sarcasm, when I'm really annoyed - the weaknesses in arguments I see as just not holding up to that standard of consistency.

Nine times out of ten, though, my beef will be with the argument itself, not with the one holding it. It takes a lot more to "get on my bad side" than just to make an argument (or fifteen :P) that doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny. People who do get on my bad side by continuous disrespect, arrogance, obvious dishonesty, or trollery, usually end up on my Ignore list. As long as I still do answer you in an argument, you can count on it that I think you're an okay enough person. :). Trust me, you are nowhere near that point where the Ignore button would come into play. You're miles and miles away from it. And you would know it if it were otherwise... ;)

I may consider some of your arguments logically flawed - and yes, I really do - but that changes nothing at all about the fact that I value you both as a member of AVEN as a whole, and as someone to discuss stuff with, no matter whether we end up agreeing or agreeing-to-disagree. :cake:

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Tarfeather

sometimes Serran or Skully or Tar do step on toes but as soon as they realise they have I've seen them be pretty apologetic.

Wait, what? When have I been apologetic? I can assure you all of the toe-stepping I've done that I'm currently aware of has been intentional, unless you're referring to statements of mine that lay quite a while in the past.

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