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Sexuals - Initial Attraction Thoughts?

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Skullery Maid

But, if you are seeking out people when your libido flares up because you feel like partnered sex would be so much better than masturbation. Seek out a sexual relationship because you decided sex feels so good you want that in your life. And yet you're still asexual. What then separates sexuals and asexuals?

At this point it always falls to "I don't want it the same way as sexuals" and then listing a bunch of offensive nonsense. :D

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Ricecream-man

But, if you are seeking out people when your libido flares up because you feel like partnered sex would be so much better than masturbation. Seek out a sexual relationship because you decided sex feels so good you want that in your life. And yet you're still asexual. What then separates sexuals and asexuals?

At this point it always falls to "I don't want it the same way as sexuals" and then listing a bunch of offensive nonsense. :D

*insert biting sarcastic comment of agreement here that I won't say because it would violate the ToS*

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WhenSummersGone

Yes, but would you keep going back to having sex with men in order to re-experience those sensations? This is where the desire aspects come into play. It's not whether or not you may have enjoyed it at the time, but rather or not you want to repeat the experience.

I apologize in advance for the recognizably sophistic argument, but..

If I get myself an inflatable doll, use it, and like it so much that I want to keep going back to it.. That does not make me "inflatable-doll-sexual".

Of course, even to an asexual, there's probably more to sex than using the other person as a sex toy. But I really think we should be open to the idea that the experience for some might be something very much like using a sex toy. And the difference between doing it alone or with a partner would be more like the difference between playing a single player vs a two player video game, or between eating alone or with friends.

Then my question is - what difference is there between an asexual that has sex for the personal pleasure of it and a sexual that has sex for the personal pleasure of it? Both seek it out. Both want it. Both find it pleasurable enough to continue doing. Both are going to have their reasons for picking a preferred sexual partner (aesthetic attraction, trust, etc, etc). Both may or may not desire a relationship. I can think of a bunch of ways they would be similar. But, I can think of no way they would be different, unless the "magical feeling sexuals feel that asexuals do not" actually does exist. In which case, what is this magical feeling, so those of us who do not know can know if we feel it or not?

Have to go to court hearing now >.< so no time to reply properly to all the comments, but pretty much, this ^^^

If you still prefer the sensations of partnered sex over masturbation, and if given the choice with a suitable person, would choose partnered sex over masturbation alone, just because you enjoy the sensations of partnered sex... then that's no different than any sexual person who feels the same way. Or does that automatically make all sexual people who feel that way asexual, in which case asexuals are like at least 15% of the population and we are back to square one.. There are still some people who have no innate desire or need in any way shape or from for partnered sex, for their own sexual pleasure or release. They will always choose masturbation over partnered sex to relieve arousal, no matter how high their libido is.

Again, I like AVENs definition of sexual attraction; The desire for partnered sexual contact with someone else. Even if you are ONLY having partnered sexual contact with someone else because it feels good, that's still a desire to have the sex with another person, as opposed to preferring to relieve your libido on your own.

Okay, gotta go now >.<

I agree with this. If someone is seeking out partnered sex with a gender or genders I see them as sexual. It's also possible for asexuals to enjoy sex yet not desire it.

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Philip027
I've heard some say that they don't mind sex and even find it pleasurable, but they don't need or crave it even when in a relationship and if their partner didn't want it they wouldn't miss it.

This is about how it goes, with me and my partner specifically.

She experiences libido, and we're capable of "sharing" that together, and I get a sense of mutual enjoyment out of the deal and it's nice and bonding and sweet. But if it turned out tomorrow that she were exactly like me (with no sort of internal inclination for things like these) or otherwise just did not want to do these sorts of things for whatever reason, it wouldn't be any skin off my back.

The enjoyment I get out of our experiences together is a mutual thing, and the recognition that that's what it is. If she wasn't into it, I wouldn't be either. Why would I want to do anything together that felt like pulling teeth to the other person? It doesn't just go for sexual activities; it would go for anything, really.

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Serran

A few implications:

A person who by themselves never would be interested in sex, yet upon discovering the physical sensation, wants more of that in their life, can be asexual.

A person who does experience a strong pull toward sex/physical contact, yet for medical reasons does not enjoy the physical sensation of sex, would still be sexual.

Is that actually what you have in mind?

The latter example - most definitely yes, they'd be sexual.

I'll get back to you about the former when I've had a night's sleep and my brain operates at more than 60% functionality again. :P

No the former would not be asexual in my mind.

IMO grey-asexual is asexuality, and the former of tar's examples could ID as grey. more info would be needed for them to say tho.

well, the former could be grey is my main point.

I feel that grey and demi are part of asexuality. I don't have a fully formed thought about this tho, to explain it out why I think it's so...

Well, grey-a and demi are on the spectrum, but there is a reason they have their own labels. :)

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humantoafault

They're soft and squishy, who doesn't like soft and squishy things?

lol I even catch myself playing with my boobs.

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Serran

But, if you are seeking out people when your libido flares up because you feel like partnered sex would be so much better than masturbation. Seek out a sexual relationship because you decided sex feels so good you want that in your life. And yet you're still asexual. What then separates sexuals and asexuals?

At this point it always falls to "I don't want it the same way as sexuals" and then listing a bunch of offensive nonsense. :D

*insert biting sarcastic comment of agreement here that I won't say because it would violate the ToS*

"seeking out people when your libido flares up"

I've formed no oppinion either way. there are possible ways this could be asexual, however it seems like it is a desire for sex, and not asexuality.

"you feel like partnered sex would be so much better than masturbation."

seems possibly sexual, but again I see ways this could be ace. more than the previous, but well if the previous is said this doesn't really add info.

"Seek out a sexual relationship"

this shouts either sexual or cupiosexual. cupiosexual I would count as grey or demi. (and stuff like cupiosexual is why I say grey/demi is asexuality - we could come up with infinite "exception words" like these. IMO pan/bi isn't really an orientation. it is two orientations. someone oriented two ways. or all ways. I'd say that grey/demi is oriented two ways (or all ways) as well.)

"because you decided [you want sex] in your life"

could be either way but, it seems more like asexuality. I don't really see a reason for a sexual to specifically point out they "decided" they want sex in their life. if they would it would usually be with humor on the tone.

planning out your life and making decisions about it in advance isn't all that surprising for someone to do. why would deciding a sexual relationship is beneficial for your life, an indication of the person's orientation? If someone bi decided to commit themselves to a same-sex partner and no one else. they aren't suddenly gay and no longer bi. I see no reason why it should be different in any other "direction".

( I took out "feels so good" because, well, that makes it sound more "sexual" than "ace" lol)

You don't get to take out cause it feels so good in that :D It was in response to Tar's scenario where a person doesn't desire sex, but then has it, due to how awesome it feels then decides they want it in their life, so continue to seek it out/have it. So, the it feeling good bit is kinda crucial to the scenario and question.

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Serran

"because you decided [you want sex] in your life"

could be either way but, it seems more like asexuality. I don't really see a reason for a sexual to specifically point out they "decided" they want sex in their life. if they would it would usually be with humor on the tone.

planning out your life and making decisions about it in advance isn't all that surprising for someone to do. why would deciding a sexual relationship is beneficial for your life, an indication of the person's orientation? If someone bi decided to commit themselves to a same-sex partner and no one else. they aren't suddenly gay and no longer bi. I see no reason why it should be different in any other "direction".

( I took out "feels so good" because, well, that makes it sound more "sexual" than "ace" lol)

You don't get to take out cause it feels so good in that :D It was in response to Tar's scenario where a person doesn't desire sex, but then has it, due to how awesome it feels then decides they want it in their life, so continue to seek it out/have it. So, the it feeling good bit is kinda crucial to the scenario and question.

lol :P well but my point really is just, that "deciding" to desire sex just seems inherently different from just desiring sex in the first place.

Eh. Having sex causing you to desire it, is desiring it. Not realizing you would like it so much until you try it doesn't change that. I never really desired cuddling until after my ex initiated it and I found out how awesome it felt. I never desired broccoli until someone made me taste it, now it's in nearly every meal I eat (I know, food analogies are not perfect). I've seen stories of people who ID'd as ace previously, then tried sex, found out they desired it and now ID as sexual and have sexual relationships like anyone would. Do all those desires not count just because they didn't exist from birth(or rather, since puberty, since no one desires sex as an infant afaik)?

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Skullery Maid

I just smoked way too much weed to respond intelligently to most of this, so I'll come back... but I agree with Teagz description of my finger wagging :D

There is something fundamentally different about the way we choose partners. It happens to me. I don't choose it. Sure, I have the capacity to make decisions about my emotional connections, but it's more like... I start falling for someone and realize we'd be terrible together... I'd have to avoid that person entirely. I can't just "decide" not to feel feelings.

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Ricecream-man

First off, darn you guys for taking what I said out of the spoiler box. There goes me trying to be all polite and gentlemanly lol.

Second, back on topic. I would agree with Serran and say that the change is very important. Otherwise, you'd be discounting a lot of LGBT+ folk who discovered it later in life because they had never thought there were any options besides heteronormative ones.

Then, there are those who may despise sex because they only see it represented through the oversexualized physical aspect of societal media. Once they realize that's not the case then some become okay with it.

For example, if I was female, I'd probably be terrified of sex if my only ideas of it came from porn. If sex was associated with those images, I'd never want to have it no matter what my internal urges said. Upon finding out that wasn't the case I might change my mind.

Just to clarify. This IS NOT saying you have to try it to see if you like it. It's just the rare example of those who dislike it based on stigma being able to make a more informed decision once those stigmas are removed.

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Serran

hm. I am talking about something else really. I do feel that "having sex" then "wanting it" CAN be somewhere where it isn't clear ground but... what I am talking about, is considering options, making a decision, and acting on that decision. it'd be more like having sex, then deciding you aren't really repulsed by it as you thought, and the relationship you want requires sex. and since you are really indifferent, well then you don't mind, so you go for the relationship.

Well, that's just compromise. And not desire. And doesn't fall into the scenarios Tar was listing, unless I completely misunderstand him. :)

Skulls, I am sort of curious what your non-intelligent replies would be. ;)

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Skullery Maid

Eh. Having sex causing you to desire it, is desiring it.

Um... am I stupid or is that not how it works for basically everyone?

Also, sex requires practice. The general drive may be innate but the mechanics of it... at least the mechanics of the real fun stuff... aren't. I've learned and explored new stuff with everyone I've been with. I had a girlfriend who "taught" me how to orgasm... one night she was just like "OK this is ridiculous you should be having more fun than this."

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humantoafault

Eh. Having sex causing you to desire it, is desiring it.

Um... am I stupid or is that not how it works for basically everyone?

Well I've never had sex and I'm pretty sure I do desire it within certain contexts...even if I may never have it. But seems so, yeah.

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Serran

hm. I am talking about something else really. I do feel that "having sex" then "wanting it" CAN be somewhere where it isn't clear ground but... what I am talking about, is considering options, making a decision, and acting on that decision. it'd be more like having sex, then deciding you aren't really repulsed by it as you thought, and the relationship you want requires sex. and since you are really indifferent, well then you don't mind, so you go for the relationship.

Well, that's just compromise. And not desire. And doesn't fall into the scenarios Tar was listing, unless I completely misunderstand him. :)

Skulls, I am sort of curious what your non-intelligent replies would be. ;)

no that quote I made we're discussing, was stupidly innefficient lol. I just wanted to discuss the following scenario basically:

bob ID's as asexual. mary ID's as sexual. mary meets bob. they start a romantic relationship. bob doesn't want to have sex, but loves mary. mary can't live without sex so breaks up with bob.

bob goes to the bar and gets drunk. bob accidently gets himself laid. it's pretty awkward but, bob realizes it isn't all that he feared, even tho it was weird it was tolerable. and, bob likes to kiss and cuddle.

so bob goes back to mary. he can't live without her. he says, "I decided that I want to have sex with you. will you take me back"

mary says "yes" they live happily ever after

Well, again, that is just compromise. :D Unless, he decided to have sex and then he wanted it for himself as much as for Mary and would continue wanting sex even if Mary was not in the picture. As you laid it out though, it's more he's deciding he wants Mary, not sex, but to have Mary he has to have sex so he can handle having it.

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Serran

or this scenario:

toni hates to masturbate. it is painful, it is uncomfortable, and it is messy.

toni has sex. it isn't painful, it is uncomfortable, and it is messy.

then toni lives without desire for a partner for many years. however, they commonly have a rise in libido. they go to masturbate but, it is too painful to do. and they are repulsed by the discumfort and mess. so they do not masturbate, and let their libido haunt them instead.

fed up with this trend, toni says to themselves, "I remember that sex wasn't as painful. and I bet I can find a partner who will let me run away from the mess, and try to find a way to help me be less uncomfortable. maybe I should seek someone out anyway"

is toni asexual? I think they are.

Depends. If Toni could find a way to masturbate that was not painful, would they prefer to simply do that and not do partnered sexual activities? Or would they still prefer partnered sexual activities?

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Serran

or this scenario:

toni hates to masturbate. it is painful, it is uncomfortable, and it is messy.

toni has sex. it isn't painful, it is uncomfortable, and it is messy.

then toni lives without desire for a partner for many years. however, they commonly have a rise in libido. they go to masturbate but, it is too painful to do. and they are repulsed by the discumfort and mess. so they do not masturbate, and let their libido haunt them instead.

fed up with this trend, toni says to themselves, "I remember that sex wasn't as painful. and I bet I can find a partner who will let me run away from the mess, and try to find a way to help me be less uncomfortable. maybe I should seek someone out anyway"

is toni asexual? I think they are.

Depends. If Toni could find a way to masturbate that was not painful, would they prefer to simply do that and not do partnered sexual activities? Or would they still prefer partnered sexual activities?

if somehow masturbation stopped being painful, toni would not desire a partner, no. same would be true if it wasn't messy. the discomfort I suppose is more really a combination of painful and messy, so if masturbation was only painful or only messy, the discomfort would also be decreased. so with out the pain or without the mess, then toni has no need for a partner. their interest in a partner is simply because they imagine the partner would decrease both the pain and the mess.

Then that doesn't really sound like a desire for sex itself, but a desire to orgasm and the repulsion to sex is less than to masturbation methods Toni knows already. Though, there are methods that remove the mess (I use these when giving handjobs and oral, since I am totally grossed out by the mess myself). And other methods that fairly accurately simulate a vagina in pure physical feeling, so would probably help with the pain. So, Toni could probably benefit from a sexual therapist or someone that could guide them to ways that might work for them, since sex is an iffy way to deal with a libido every time it flares up, even for sexuals, since it's not always available.

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Serran

who said toni had a penis lol

Erm, it's possible for sex to be non-painful while masturbation is painful with a vagina? I only know of this happening for those with penises (friction issues, circumcision scars, etc). I mean, I guess.. though, sex is penetrative and masturbation doesn't need to be (more often isn't from what I know of techniques). Having trouble conceptualizing that scenario with a person with a vagina. But, I guess, if somehow penetration and/or oral/anal is less painful than a vibrator/fingers/rubbing against something... but again, I mean, you can masturbate with a vagina with pillows or furniture corners, so easily avoid the mess. Or even with clothes all on. Or just squeezing your thighs together a certain way. Makes it harder for me to imagine this scenario cause I keep trying to figure out what about sex could be less painful / messy. I suppose it could, I just can't think of causes.

But, if your scenario was for a non-specific physical sex or person with a vagina, answer remains the same. :D Just methods would be different, but still available.

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Ricecream-man

Teags, if I remember you're the one who was against oddly specific situations earlier.

The Bob situation is one that's already been discussed and addressed. If it's purely for the partner's satisfaction and you wouldn't want it if they didn't seem to have the need for it then yes you're still asexual.

In the Toni situation, (not sure how sex is okay but masturbation isn't in the first place...) the only realistic way that I can see Toni having sex not be painful is oral. On a theoretical note it would be hinged on whether or not Toni would continue to engage in sexual activity if a proper item for self pleasure was made available.

Eh. Having sex causing you to desire it, is desiring it.

Um... am I stupid or is that not how it works for basically everyone?

Well I've never had sex and I'm pretty sure I do desire it within certain contexts...even if I may never have it. But seems so, yeah.

Would you follow through if the opportunity presented itself or is if more of a fantasy thing?

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