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Christian sexual married to an asexual


MightBeLosingIt

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(You are tolerating far more than almost anyone else would. Any normal person would be out of the relationship by now.)

When you say she "isn't willing to compromise"... what happens if you talk about it? what happens if you say "This cannot continue. I need you to keep your promise that you made to me and god now. I don't want any excuses; I need you to have sex with me now. I have been in pain and misery for years because you didn't keep your promise... it's time for things to change. Right now."

I don't think we should decide what sexual behavior normal people will tolerate or not tolerate.

I also don't think marriage vows are inclusive of a promise to god to have sex with your partner...mine weren't.

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Rose, I don't think that your constant badgering of sexuals to demand, insult, and assault their asexual partners is appropriate or helpful. I personally find your "advice" appalling and it breaks my heart to even imagine treating the love of my life that way.

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(You are tolerating far more than almost anyone else would. Any normal person would be out of the relationship by now.)

When you say she "isn't willing to compromise"... what happens if you talk about it? what happens if you say "This cannot continue. I need you to keep your promise that you made to me and god now. I don't want any excuses; I need you to have sex with me now. I have been in pain and misery for years because you didn't keep your promise... it's time for things to change. Right now."

I don't think we should decide what sexual behavior normal people will tolerate or not tolerate.

I also don't think marriage vows are inclusive of a promise to god to have sex with your partner...mine weren't.

He had specifically mentioned that his partner made specific promises to him regarding sex. This isn't about you. I was not talking about marriage vows in general.

I was stating my belief about what normal people in the world will tolerate or not; I could be wrong but in my opinion most people would not stay in that kind of relationship. I think it's important for him to know that he's not doing anything wrong by saying he can't put up with it anymore, and I didn't want him to feel like he was a bad person or abnormal for needing sex. A lot of times people are shamed into thinking only a bad person would leave a relationship over sex, and so forth.

Rose, I don't think that your constant badgering of sexuals to demand, insult, and assault their asexual partners is appropriate or helpful. I personally find your "advice" appalling and it breaks my heart to even imagine treating the love of my life that way.

I would only say something like that to someone who I believe is in an abusive relationship and has trouble asserting his needs. Maybe I'm wrong. SM, you're not in an abusive relationship, so this doesn't apply to you.

I don't think most asexuals are as heartless as his wife.

And I would never badger anyone to insult or assault anyone, but there is a time for making demands, expressing tough love, being harsh, and setting boundaries.

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I'm very confused now...

So you believe in human rights, and you treat people with respect because you care about their rights... but you don't think you have any duties to them? I'm not really understanding the difference. If you care about not violating people's rights, how is that different than having a duty to respect their rights? Could you explain what you mean about duties being oppressive and shackling?

I'm also not understanding what you mean about "In a world that works the way you envision it." I'm not envisioning anything different than you're experiencing. I just think people have an obligation to treat others with respect. Whether or not they feel that obligation and how they act on it is up to them.

I'm curious about the way you see the world...

Spoilered for off-topic derailment and all... as Skulls already said, if you want to continue this part of the discussion, there are more adequate threads where we can do so.

Basically, I'm fiercely independent and amoral. :)

I'm a free individual, and I believe that so is everyone else. For me, that means rejecting all obligations (moral or otherwise).

I can do whatever I want, and others can do whatever they want. The only way that this is limited is by cause and effect - actions will have consequences, both physically and socially - but I will not tolerate having my behavior restricted by duties. I alone am in charge of my life - no other person, instution, social construct, or whathaveyou.

Out of my own free decision and conviction, I choose to act in accordance with values like human rights (and the respect for others derived from that), not because it's a duty (= moralist construct), but because I see that as the best logical path to living the most free and most pleasant life for myself without interfering with the freedom and happiness of others (whom I assume to be free agents with needs comparable to mine = empathy). I couldn't care less if that's considered "good", "evil", or by whatever other made-up constructed moral term. I have no authority over other's convictions and choices, so even if noone else were to follow a human rights based personal code of ethics, I would still do so - not because it's the right thing to do, but because it seems most logically consistent with my premises.

So, I guess one could say that the funny paradox is that I have a fundamental respect for other people because I wholeheartedly believe that my life really is all about me. ;)

When you say she "isn't willing to compromise"... what happens if you talk about it? what happens if you say "This cannot continue. I need you to keep your promise that you made to me and god now. I don't want any excuses; I need you to have sex with me now. I have been in pain and misery for years because you didn't keep your promise... it's time for things to change. Right now."

Ughhh. No. Just no.

I'd dearly hope that what would happen is this, namely the most adequate and healthy response to that: "Well, hun, you know where the door is. Tell me if you want to pack alone; if not, I'll gladly help you with it if you want." If you feel things cannot continue, you are always free to leave. You are not free to cast off that personal responsibility of yours onto your partner, and you are not ever entitled to have them change for you. End of story.

I can't for the life of me see how such a confrontation would be the least bit more respectful than "I need you to just get over your urges, learn to control yourself and settle for a celibate life already. Right now." Weirdly enough, I suppose you'd feel controlled and disrespected if someone expected that from you, instead of seeing it as your duty to them to accept a life in celibacy. I can't help but consider that hypocrisy.

If no compromise is in the works, then I see only two ethically sound options:

a) Settle for how it is (in this case, that would indeed mean learning to be celibate - effectively "for the love of God", keeping your end of the promise as a personal sacrifice, no matter if your spouse follows suit or not. It's then most mature to do this stoically, accepting that you freely chose it, without whining about it.), or

b) End the marriage and leave. (Depending on the religious ideas you hold and whether or not you consider them absolute, that may mean accepting your fate of having to be single forever. But that's a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the wife's behavior, and literally all "between you and your God".) [/sincerity mode, honestly no snark intended]

Anything else would be unethical due to restricting the freedom of others in ways one doesn't accept for oneself.

TL; DR: Take and accept personal responsibility for your life, and for yours only.

ETA, because I only just saw this (and found it awful...):.

I would only say something like that to someone who I believe is in an abusive relationship and has trouble asserting his needs. Maybe I'm wrong. SM, you're not in an abusive relationship, so this doesn't apply to you.

I don't think most asexuals are as heartless as his wife.

And I would never badger anyone to insult or assault anyone, but there is a time for making demands, expressing tough love, being harsh, and setting boundaries.

The key to ending an abusive relationship lies in walking away, not in trying to change the abuser.

If you choose to stay and enable the abuse while trying to change your partner's behaviour... well, you bring any further abuse on yourself, and I will not acknowledge you as a "victim", and instead point out your share of responsibility for it. Offering support only on the condition that you yourself take steps to get out of the dysfunctional dynamic instead of perpetuating it is much closer to actual "tough love" than what you are suggesting here (which just raises tons of codependency red flags for me).

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@Black Rose...Most people doesn't equal normal. To say normal people wouldn't tolerate it, makes those of us who do abnormal. That's just not right, as I said.

I didn't say it was about me. I can express what was said in my vows though because they were similar.

The forums are not for one person to say what they think and that becomes law. We all get to express our thoughts and share our experiences and how they might apply to the situation. Each couple is different...you are welcome to say what you think, but I get to as well (up to and including my experience in my relationship).

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I would only say something like that to someone who I believe is in an abusive relationship and has trouble asserting his needs.

I agree that there are some relationships I see that I would consider unhealthy for the primary reason that both parties seem miserable. But it isn't my place to decide the worthiness of other relationships.

You guys see how I talk... my partner and I are like this at home too. We say "fuck you, dickbag" to each other like 5 times a day, we're very honest with each other about the things we love and hate about each other, and we try to be realistic about the future by acknowledging that there's the possibility of affairs and/or opening the relationship. We keep no secrets (that I know of, obviously), including how we feel.

A lot of people, including more than a couple on AVEN, have taken my characterizations of my relationship and declared me, her, or both of us abusive. I participated in an article about mixed relationships that ended up spread around Tumblr, and I got to read comment after comment calling me a rapist, abusive, etc. People said I should be held down and raped, they said my partner should be rescued from me...

That experience was invaluable for me because I learned how easy it is for people to project all their own insecurities onto other's lives, and I learned that it is REALLY hard to describe and defend one's intimacy.

My partner and I are overeducated lazy Portland stoners. When we say "fuck you, dickbag", its hilarious, not mean. But, I don't know how to convince anyone of that, and more importantly, I don't have to. I know my relationship is good and I don't really care how it appears outwardly. I'm sure there are some people who think what I described sounds like a nightmare of a marriage, and I'm sure some people think it sounds awesome. The only opinions that actually matter are mine and hers.

My point is... you cannot know with any level of certainty what the quality of someone else's relationship experience, so it's extremely disrespectful to other people's autonomy and free will to assume that they've made objectively poor life decisions, like being in an abusive marriage.

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My point is... you cannot know with any level of certainty what the quality of someone else's relationship experience,

...especially via an internet forum, without firsthand acquaintance of that someone and without ongoing proximity enabling observation of their relational dynamics. At least (to repeat what I posted earlier) without being a mind reader.

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Mysticus Insanus, on 19 Dec 2013 - 3:54 PM, said:

I can't for the life of me see how such a confrontation would be the least bit more respectful than "I need you to just get over your urges, learn to control yourself and settle for a celibate life already. Right now." Weirdly enough, I suppose you'd feel controlled and disrespected if someone expected that from you, instead of seeing it as your duty to them to accept a life in celibacy. I can't help but consider that hypocrisy.

:cake::cake: :cake:

Skullery Maid, on 18 Dec 2013 - 7:17 PM, said:

One's wife is not one's employee

Ooo, I missed that. It gets :cake::cake: :cake: also.

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trapped.within.limbo

Yes, this person's religion plays a part in this, but playing off stuff against them serves no purpose. This is a place where people can come for support regarding their sexual issues, whichever side of the coin they may be. The fact that we have a thread that has prompted the OP to apologise for her belief is disgraceful.

Debate is good and I'm a passionate atheist but we are not discussing god here, we are supposed to be supporting a person who has come to this corner of the internet for help.

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Debate is good and I'm a passionate atheist but we are not discussing god here, we are supposed to be supporting a person who has come to this corner of the internet for help.

DITTO.

Though I'm an agnostic who is atheist-specific toward Christianity (as well as toward Islam and some other specific versions of theism), I've deliberately avoided the discussions involving the validity of the OP's or others' particular theism.

Obviously, if the OP had a non-theistic viewpoint, then advice to the OP could be along other lines. But, whether I agree with the OP viewpoint or don't, the OP's is theistic; so, since this thread is about supporting Sexuals, not about challenging nor discussing theism, I want to respect that and offer advice in open forum only within the framework of the OP's viewpoint.

Only if the thread topic was something like, "If My Christian Beliefs Prohibit Compromises With My Sex-Repulsed Asexual Wife, Should I Reconsider The Validity Of My Beliefs?", would I feel appropriate in addressing theism.

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I don't see the posts arguing the person should not believe in their faith? I see a debate about duties, which even in Christian faiths what ones duty is to their spouse is up for debate - it varies by who you ask/what religion they are in - though as Skullery said, this debate probably belongs more in the philo thread.

Seeing as we do not know the posters religions or the posters themselves though, we can't really say WHAT their faith says in terms of obligations / duties. It's not a good idea to stereotype all Christian faiths by what the most popular ones believe, when we have no information on what this individual believes. Even IF that duty is there in the faith and followed by the wife (Catholics will divorce, for example, Jewish people may not keep Kosher, so simply belonging to a religion doesn't mean you follow it to the letter and we do not know her to say) I doubt invoking it would really help though, since sex from feeling guilty I doubt would be very enjoyable to the OP.

I have had "obligation sex" and it felt like rape, even though I wasn't saying no, I felt like I had no choice and it was horrible. My partner also eventually picked up on how against it I was and said they felt guilty about their own sexuality due to the fact it was feeling like rape to them as well. Unless the asexual partner WANTS to have sex, for whatever reason, I doubt most people would enjoy the act. Which would just move the problem from "we aren't having sex" to "I can't even enjoy the sex we have and it's making us both miserable".

This situation seems very unfortunate. Due to the restrictions, the options the OP and Fight have are limited. :( It's a shame the wife didn't know this about herself and say so before marriage. But, hind sight is 20/20 and not much use at this point. Fight, would it be possible to discuss this problem with your pastor/priest/elder/whatever your church leaders are called, with your wife preferably, but without as well to see what your options are in their opinion? I know in all of the churches my family are in, relationship advice is part of the spiritual counseling they offer. Not sure if your church has that though, but it might be useful.

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If someone writes to say, essentially, "I'm miserable in my relationship because my partner refuses to/can't do what I want her to do, but my beliefs prevent me from leaving the relationship", what possible advice could anyone offer? How can anyone "support" that person? They are in a cage of their own making and we don't have the key.

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Sally, I agree... it is frustrating to read about because they do indeed hold the key to their own cage.

The thing that blows my mind is that sometimes little things can make a huge difference... like if one of these ace partners was just like "hey, I'll let you enjoy my body for 15 min a week, not out of obligation but just to do something genuinely nice for you because I care about you and want your life to be a little better," in a lot of these cases it seems like that would transform the relationship... a very small investment could get big returns that could benefit both people. Assuming the ace partner could do that and genuinely be ok with it.

And I think a lot of the time the sexual feels guilty or ashamed of having these needs, so I like to encourage people to have assertive conversations where they express how important sex is and explain, because a lot of ace people don't get it.

So I think there is hope in some of these cases: either the asexual partner will realize this and try to meet halfway or compromise, or the sexual partner will make every effort and finally realize that the asexual partner can't or won't change (and at that point, either give up hope and accept a life full of misery, or finally get out of there).

So I think there may be hope for some change or improvement in some of these situations.

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In some, the ace partner can find a way to provide relief, even if it's just mutual masturbation. But, a lot of these cases are sadly because the ace partner is simply too repulsed by the idea to be able to do it, or the sexual partner can't be happy with what the ace partner can provide without damaging themselves (or the sexual partner needs mutual sexual attraction/desire, which no matter how much one of us tries to compromise, that we can't provide). That is where it becomes frustrating - because two people are kind of stuck knowing they aren't compatible in a very essential way and not seeing a way to fix it, but also being unable (or unwilling) to leave the relationship. And it is sad. That sort of being torn between belief and need I can't even imagine, the pain of feeling like you have no options left. I hope both of the posters in this thread with such an issue are able to find some sort of solution.

We may be out of advice to give, but we can still support them by recognizing their pain and giving them encouragement that they should not feel bad about needing something that is natural to them. :)

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If someone writes to say, essentially, "I'm miserable in my relationship because my partner refuses to/can't do what I want her to do, but my beliefs prevent me from leaving the relationship", what possible advice could anyone offer? How can anyone "support" that person? They are in a cage of their own making and we don't have the key.

For advice, how about, among other possibilities, "Asexuality neither has nor needs a "fix", so don't frustrate yourself even moreso by wasting time and effort seeking one"... "Practice focusing on the good aspects of your partner and of your relationship"... "Realize that years and aging will likely reduce the pain of your situation, so look forward to it being less miserable as time passes"..."Venting often helps makes a situation more bearable"..."Have you sought strength to cope through the other components of your belief-system?"

For support, how about, "How are things going for you? I know it's tough -- you feeling the need to vent to a person who understands? I'm willing to listen."

Heck, we're wired for empathy -- it is possible for us to offer advice and support even to people in what we conclude are self-built "cages".

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I have had "obligation sex" and it felt like rape, even though I wasn't saying no, I felt like I had no choice and it was horrible. My partner also eventually picked up on how against it I was and said they felt guilty about their own sexuality due to the fact it was feeling like rape to them as well. Unless the asexual partner WANTS to have sex, for whatever reason, I doubt most people would enjoy the act. Which would just move the problem from "we aren't having sex" to "I can't even enjoy the sex we have and it's making us both miserable".

A million likes.

I sometimes get told that I act too tentatively, because after having the same experience as Serran and her partner with an ex of mine, I now try really hard not to put any pressure on my current partner. She reminds me that she never does anything she doesn't want to do, and that she always feels completely OK saying no.

And thank god for that, because I do not want to ever make her feel forced, and I know how much damage that does to both people involved.

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diffcult situation

I only came across the original post today and I too am a Christian sexual married to someone who is almost certainly asexual. I have been married for nearly 30 years and this was always a huge problem from day one.

Our story was that we had both been in one serious sexual relationship before we found Christianity. I met my wife to be at church and when she agreed to marry me she said that as we were "born again virgins" i.e. the old sexual sins were forgiven that we should wait until the wedding night. I thought that sounded reasonable at the time, but needless to say there was no sex that night and precious little ever since. Despite this we did manage to have two children fairly quickly (I used to joke that she got pregnant every time we had sex and sadly this was very near the truth) and so being a good Christian I put up with it and threw myself into family life, church life, work life etc - almost anything to make the pain go away. I also naively thought that it would get easier as I got older, but after I reached 50 it actually became much worse. I am not entirely sure why, but perhaps it is the sense that time is running out.

In the end in 2011 I gave my wife an ultimatum that things had to change as I just could not stand it any more. And after a few major rows she promised to make regular sex part of the relationship again. For about two months sex came back into the marriage and it was the best it had ever been between us, but then it soon ebbed away again and all the old excuses came to the fore. I nearly left at the end of 2012 for good, but we have a complex family situation with a sick daughter and I just could not go through with it.

I am not sure that I expect any words of wisdom but it is hard to be a sexual person in such a relationship and at one point in 2011 I even felt that death would be preferable to carrying on as I have been. You even find yourself considering outsourcing your needs with someone in the same boat because it seems the only solution. But can you do this without conflicting with your faith?

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

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All I can say is this...

If you are interpreting your god to require your misery, maybe you're misinterpreting him? Why would he want you to suffer needlessly? You can be just as supportive of your children in a different residence, I promise you, and isn't that what truly makes you a good man?

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But can you do this without conflicting with your faith?

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

As an agnostic, I say...

IF your interpretation of Christian beliefs includes prohibitions against anything except marital sex and against remarriage while your first spouse still lives, then simply put -- NO, you cannot do that without conflicting with your own beliefs and deliberately disobeying the version you profess to be your "Lord, God, and Savior".

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I only came across the original post today and I too am a Christian sexual married to someone who is almost certainly asexual. I have been married for nearly 30 years and this was always a huge problem from day one.

Our story was that we had both been in one serious sexual relationship before we found Christianity. I met my wife to be at church and when she agreed to marry me she said that as we were "born again virgins" i.e. the old sexual sins were forgiven that we should wait until the wedding night. I thought that sounded reasonable at the time, but needless to say there was no sex that night and precious little ever since. Despite this we did manage to have two children fairly quickly (I used to joke that she got pregnant every time we had sex and sadly this was very near the truth) and so being a good Christian I put up with it and threw myself into family life, church life, work life etc - almost anything to make the pain go away. I also naively thought that it would get easier as I got older, but after I reached 50 it actually became much worse. I am not entirely sure why, but perhaps it is the sense that time is running out.

In the end in 2011 I gave my wife an ultimatum that things had to change as I just could not stand it any more. And after a few major rows she promised to make regular sex part of the relationship again. For about two months sex came back into the marriage and it was the best it had ever been between us, but then it soon ebbed away again and all the old excuses came to the fore. I nearly left at the end of 2012 for good, but we have a complex family situation with a sick daughter and I just could not go through with it.

I am not sure that I expect any words of wisdom but it is hard to be a sexual person in such a relationship and at one point in 2011 I even felt that death would be preferable to carrying on as I have been. You even find yourself considering outsourcing your needs with someone in the same boat because it seems the only solution. But can you do this without conflicting with your faith?

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

What happened with your wife -- things getting better for a few months and then reverting -- is very typical in this kind of situation. If you're in a situation where you can't leave, you need to make it clear that you can't go on living like this and that she's hurting you. You have to point out the excuses and set clear standards which you hold her to. She needs to understand how important this is to you, that you're considering death or leaving, and so on. Basically, she's only going to change if she feels sufficiently shaken up that she has to.

Check out what Pandante said here:

And also, since we had been together for a few years already, she had fallen into a comfort zone where she didn't deem it necessary to show affections regularly because she considered me her life-buddy who could take any amount of selfish behaviour. Her semi-aromantic nature also didn't desire much affection from my part. Some of the above reasons may be at work the case of your partner, when she's being less than affectionate.

As you say, it is important to get her on the same page as you, and figure out what is going on. If she is not willing to cooperate much in improving your relationship and figuring herself out, the strategy of reducing your show of affection toward her could work. I used that strategy too, and in my case it had the effect of a wake up call to my partner that something was wrong. You can take one step further and state to her in a very earnest tone that she must improve her attitude and that you must talk through the issue of her sexuality together otherwise it is impossible for you to continue the relationship. These may be the only ways you can take control of matters if she won't communicate properly with you. Otherwise you'll just be flung around by your partner like a teddy bear, treated well only when she requires it, and ignored when not.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/96258-good-days-and-bad-days/#entry2647950

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Basically, staying in the relationship is going to mean a long hard fight where you have to keep reminding her and push really hard just to make things a little bit better for you. She doesn't seem to care very much about your needs or happiness. Right now, you're doing all the compromising... the only fair thing is for her to compromise too so that you're both somewhat unhappy, instead of you being miserable and her being fine. Why should she change unless you're pressing her to? She's got a good deal now.

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Basically, staying in the relationship is going to mean a long hard fight where you have to keep reminding her and push really hard just to make things a little bit better for you. She doesn't seem to care very much about your needs or happiness. Right now, you're doing all the compromising... the only fair thing is for her to compromise too so that you're both somewhat unhappy, instead of you being miserable and her being fine. Why should she change unless you're pressing her to? She's got a good deal now.

I just have to say I really disagree with this general line of reasoning about relationships and type of advice. One of the main reasons I disagree is because nothing is this cut and dried. There's no real way for us to know that she's got the good deal now, or that she is fine when we only get to hear one side of the story.

The second reason I don't like the advice is because oftentimes the sexual partner doesn't want to take the hard line approach...there's little satisfaction in harshly coerced compromise and I doubt it's likely to last. I think things need to be worked through in baby steps I guess. Sometimes it takes repeated conversations with little improvement, and sometimes it takes accepting and loving your asexual partner for who they are and what they are able to give from the heart.

I honestly feel that our inflated expectations cause us more misery than the reality of our situation.

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Basically, staying in the relationship is going to mean a long hard fight where you have to keep reminding her and push really hard just to make things a little bit better for you.

Not necessarily. You could just surrender. Fighting on will net you nothing but trouble. Don't waste your strength like that.

She doesn't seem to care very much about your needs or happiness.

Possible, but hardly relevant. There's no way for him to change what she cares about. It's none of his business, and not in his power to effect.

Right now, you're doing all the compromising... the only fair thing is for her to compromise too so that you're both somewhat unhappy, instead of you being miserable and her being fine. Why should she change unless you're pressing her to? She's got a good deal now.

What good would such "fairness" do? That would only worsen the situation by causing more misery than there is now.

Also, there's nothing at all Christian in making someone else suffer to improve one's own lot.

If religious convictions make it so for someone that walking out is not an option, the best thing to do is to just accept this as the end of their sex life, and to learn to be as content with that as they can. Seeing it as a test by God asking for the sacrifice of their libido, like a monk or nun does, might help. Turn the other cheek, bear your cross, and all that jazz. If they truly believe that God wants them to remain married in this situation, it logically follows that God expects them to abstain from sex forever. Don't like it? Understandable. But that, as I said, is a problem between you and capital-H Him, not between you and your wife. Take the conflict where it belongs: Into prayer.

And because it applies so well here on several levels... ;)

May God grant me

The Serenity

To accept things that I cannot change,

The Courage

To Change things that I can change,

And the Wisdom

To tell one from the other.

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If they truly believe that God wants them to remain married in this situation, it logically follows that God expects them to abstain from sex forever.Don't like it? Understandable. But that, as I said, is a problem between you and capital-H Him, not between you and your wife.

Exactly.

The logic goes something like this: If that version of god exists...and if that god is sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, omniprecognitive, infallible, just, loving, and compassionate...and if that god has given commands and instructions that must be trusted and obeyed, among them commands and instructions regulating sexuality and marriage; then a follower of that god must accept even the agonizing circumstances in the follower's marriage as that god's will. In most Christian varieties of belief in a god described as mentioned, "God" promises to supply believers with strength, perseverance, patience, forbearance, and peace for handling any and all suffering and adversity, particularly if a follower seeks those helps; therefore, a follower should expect those helps from that god, especially if the follower seeks them. Logically, if that god exists, then those promises of help are equally as real and as true as the prescriptions for sexual boundaries, and a follower will receive that help.

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I just want to throw in one thing: to care for sexual needs of a partner when you are asexual can be very hard and it is almost disrespectful to say, that a asexual person probably doesn't care just because you can't see it in their actions...to me this sounds like telling a blind person that he isn't listening to you, because he isn't looking at you...of course there CAN be people not caring for the needs of their partners, but when you love a person, don't you wnat to make them feel good? like not out of duty, but just give the best you can to see a smile on their face? And this exactly is the point why I sometimes can't sleep, always thinking about how I can grow with him...can be like walking on a thin line, so better not forget to put both arms up to keep the balance.

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If they truly believe that God wants them to remain married in this situation, it logically follows that God expects them to abstain from sex forever.Don't like it? Understandable. But that, as I said, is a problem between you and capital-H Him, not between you and your wife.

Exactly.

The logic goes something like this: If that version of god exists...and if that god is sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, omniprecognitive, infallible, just, loving, and compassionate...and if that god has given commands and instructions that must be trusted and obeyed, among them commands and instructions regulating sexuality and marriage; then a follower of that god must accept even the agonizing circumstances in the follower's marriage as that god's will. In most Christian varieties of belief in a god described as mentioned, "God" promises to supply believers with strength, perseverance, patience, forbearance, and peace for handling any and all suffering and adversity, particularly if a follower seeks those helps; therefore, a follower should expect those helps from that god, especially if the follower seeks them. Logically, if that god exists, then those promises of help are equally as real and as true as the prescriptions for sexual boundaries, and a follower will receive that help.

Heh! Makes sense. The only thing is that I'm not sure if all Christians believe God will give them complete strength and peace to handle any adverse situation without suffering... I think many Christians see suffering as part of the package and don't think God will necessarily help them through everything, at least not easily and painlessly.

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Heh! Makes sense. The only thing is that I'm not sure if all Christians believe God will give them complete strength and peace to handle any adverse situation without suffering... I think many Christians see suffering as part of the package and don't think God will necessarily help them through everything, at least not easily and painlessly.
But I'm guessing that God probably doesn't want them to handle that adverse situation by demanding that the other person in that adverse situation immediately conform to what the first person expects. In this case, sex. Suffering should be handled, somehow, without making someone else suffer.
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Basically, staying in the relationship is going to mean a long hard fight where you have to keep reminding her and push really hard just to make things a little bit better for you. She doesn't seem to care very much about your needs or happiness. Right now, you're doing all the compromising... the only fair thing is for her to compromise too so that you're both somewhat unhappy, instead of you being miserable and her being fine. Why should she change unless you're pressing her to? She's got a good deal now.

Based upon the information available, the information posted by Diffcult Situation, being able to conclude that "She doesn't seem to care very much about your needs or happiness" would only be possible for a mind reader. Since, it is very much possible, for various reasons and combinations of them, for someone to care and yet be unable to behave caringly. HOW a person acts and behaves is not always nor even necessarily an indication of how the person WANTS to behave. Sure, one possibility is that his wife does not care -- but it's also possible that his wife deeply cares about his needs for sexual intimacy yet is sincerely unable to act to meet them and even unable at this point to discuss the issue. Unless one's a mind reader, an appropriate statement can only be, "She's not doing what meets your needs or gives you happiness."

"...so that you're both somewhat unhappy, instead of you being miserable and her being fine..." likewise requires mind reading to be able to state. Based on the information available, the statement can only be true if made by someone who's read the wife's mind and infallibly knows that the wife ISN'T miserable because of the situation. Sure, one possibility is that his wife is "fine" -- but it's also very possible his wife feels miserable because of her inability to meet her husband's needs. That a wife might be "getting her way" in not having to engage in sex doesn't somehow prevent her from simultaneously feeling miserable and unhappy from being unable to fulfill the sexual needs of the man she loves. (So as not to introduce another subject, I'm omitting my thoughts on the question of "do two wrongs make a right-way-to-address perceived relational inequities?" ) How could anyone reading Diffcult Situation's post know how his wife is feeling apart from mind reading?

So, I really am curious, Black -- since in this case only a mind reader could word statements with such certainty, ARE you a mind reader?

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Good question, Joe.

I'll attest, as an asexual woman who was in two long relationships with sexuals, that when I felt too miserable to have sex and avoided it, I was NOT fine. Neither of us were fine. Assuming that asexuals who don't want to have sex are "fine" characterizes them as heartless and unloving. That's a very unfair characterization.

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You guys make some good points. We don't know for sure what her situation is or how she's feeling. Her behavior does not match what I would expect to see in someone who cared, but there is the possibility that she does care but for many reasons could not express it. All any of us can do is say what it seems like to us based on the little we know.

I tend to communicate in pretty stark or blunt terms to people in DS's situation, and I do this for a specific reason. By pointing out the "worst-case scenario" or most pessimistic viewpoint, I hope to shock him and help him wake up to the reality of the situation, that things might well not get better, and that it may be important for him to take a step back and try a new approach. If someone's been doing the same thing for decades and their life continues to be unhappy, maybe it's time for a change.

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