Olallieberry Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Welp I had a hard day. It started in the morning with me mentioning I was planning to get books from the library about polyamory and ENM. I was feeling like it was time to reveal this and let my spouse know I was thinking along these lines, kind of rip the band-aid off. Her reaction wasn't like ripping off a band-aid. It was like ripping out stitches. She wasn't mad, just really firm. I guess this is what I get for anticipating that this idea might go somewhere, and keeping it to myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Okay. Well, now there has been actual communication between you and your partner and you have actual information in place of speculation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Liara Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Until now ENM was just a possible option among others. But you just make it more real, more concrete. Maybe she just needs time to digest and accept this change... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 4 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said: …and you have actual information in place of speculation. Maybe, maybe not. I agree with @Liara. More time and discussion are needed. You’ve learned nothing concrete so far, but have cracked the door. 👍🏼 My only questions are, “Does she not know the options before you? Does she expect only 3 to be on the table?” I’m sorry you feel “gut punched”. 🙁 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I mean, you could give it a couple of weeks to digest and bring it up again. Maybe go ahead and check out some books from the library and leave them where your wife could look at them if she wants. Don't leave them where guests might find them though. I'm pretty sure your wife doesn't want to discuss your marital issues with visitors. Generally speaking, it's best to assume people mean the things they very firmly say. No means no, and your wife has a right to choose divorce over nonmonogamy if that is her preference. This is not about strategizing and wearing her down until she gives in to the option of your choice. If you are both still hopeful that you can reach a mutually agreeable sexual compromise, or if you think maybe you should give celibacy a serious chance, now would be the time to try that. But if nonmonogamy was the last thing to scratch off the list before divorce, a cooling down and digestion period is probably in order before having a talk about whether there is anything *both* of you would rather do than get divorced. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 5 hours ago, Traveler40 said: My only questions are, “Does she not know the options before you? Does she expect only 3 to be on the table?” She knows, we’ve only talked about it as purely hypothetical before this. I guess we still are. “Reading books is fine…” 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Well, it’s way too early to draw any conclusions. My husband was a hard no until he couldn’t be. It may not work that way for you, and she could opt for divorce over exploring ENM. You could opt for sex as it is now forevermore by default. No one knows yet. I have zero regret given my end result, but if my husband could remove my lover from our lives….hmm. IDK. Nevermind. So much has changed I can’t say for sure what he would choose, and I’m not going to bring it up. Maybe two years ago (and we are about to celebrate six) he would have still preferred I drop my lover and close our marriage. For me that would have been a hard no. There will likely be a hard no from someone and alternatives must be weighed. That weighing takes time and resolve. We didn’t choose these relationships with full knowledge all around. Now that we are in them with long histories plus love and entanglements, it ain’t simple. You’re a firm no on “no sex forevermore” and your wife’s a firm no on ENM currently. Nothing stays firm forever as it evolves. Perhaps it ends at option 4, but hard choices are still left to be made by each of you. Either way it will suck for a time. Figuring it out and moving forward is critical. She will likely surprise you up and down. Keep moving forward… 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vorps Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Sorry to hear that. The bruise from that punch probably feels really similar to the last time a major door was shut in your face, and is all the more tender for it. Good luck and good vibes 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Hey - There was a recent post that may be beneficial to you. You may have seen it already, but it’s worth a moment. When @anisotrophic speaks, I listen. https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/259573-my-partner-recently-told-me-he-is-asexual-but-i-am-not/?do=findComment&comment=1064886715 Edit: I understand you are working on it within your home, but perhaps there’s something in @anisotrophic’s words that you’ll find helpful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 3/10/2023 at 7:01 PM, Ollie415 said: Welp I had a hard day. It started in the morning with me mentioning I was planning to get books from the library about polyamory and ENM. I was feeling like it was time to reveal this and let my spouse know I was thinking along these lines, kind of rip the band-aid off. Her reaction wasn't like ripping off a band-aid. It was like ripping out stitches. She wasn't mad, just really firm. I guess this is what I get for anticipating that this idea might go somewhere, and keeping it to myself. Yes to your last sentence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Wouldn’t you know it, there was some important stuff she was keeping to herself too, I found out tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Windmills of My Mind Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Would you care to share what that important stuff was? Don't if you don't feel comfortable about it, I am sincerely interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said: Would you care to share what that important stuff was? Don't if you don't feel comfortable about it, I am sincerely interested. It's too fresh. It was disturbing. But thanks. I suppose it was good to hear and should yield progress regarding our difficulties, but it was out of left field to me, alarmingly unflattering, and pretty unfortunate in that she felt gaslighted (not her word) by something she misunderstood/misperceived (exactly what a gaslighter would say, no?) Gaslighting's not even quite the right way to put it, but a form of manipulation. Hopefully easier times ahead now that this has been discussed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 I guess the good news is that this wouldn't have come out at all if we hadn't been actively practicing certain communication skills: pattern-interrupt, trigger identification, emotional regulation, repair and forgiveness, receiving influence, and others, from a marriage communication masterclass we took with a therapist this winter. Good communication is at times hard and painful but better than the alternative. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vorps Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Damn you've been through the wringer here recently. It sorta seems to be like that with these things, doesnt it? You're either stagnant or things are entirely upside down. ❤️ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mountain House Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Ollie415 said: I guess the good news Ha, well, I was going to write a bit about the post preceding this and say it's good news in a way. It means that your communication skills are leveling up. Able to say the hard stuff. Able to hear what you don't want to hear with grace. Just saying I agree with you and letting you know I can relate. 👍 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Vorps said: Damn you've been through the wringer here recently. It sorta seems to be like that with these things, doesnt it? You're either stagnant or things are entirely upside down. ❤️ Things didn't seem stagnant but there were stagnant things behind the apparent progress. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Windmills of My Mind Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 hours ago, Ollie415 said: It's too fresh. It was disturbing. But thanks. No worries. We all earn our scars in life. I'm with you and @Mountain House : good work on the communication skills. It is indeed essential to any real progress and further understanding of the radically different ways in which people experience the same thing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 3/11/2023 at 12:36 AM, Liara said: Maybe she just needs time to digest and accept this change Yeah, maybe. I'm not going to bring it up again for a while but I'm going to be seen reading those books, dammit. Sounds passive-aggressive, don't it. But I'll probably learn something which will improve the conversations when they do resume. And by "improve" I don't mean "convince her to go along with this." I just mean however it goes, that's how it will go, but, at least I won't be unprepared and uninformed. If she keeps refusing to consider it at all, she'll let me know, she's of course free to think and feel how she will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 What she specifically said when telling me "that wouldn't work for me" was, it would be too painful for her if I had sex with someone else. I kind of hate that I find myself thinking "painful compared to what?" I'm never going to say that out loud. But I hate that it might be a choice between one of us hurting, or the other one, in the relationship. Or both of us hurting, without it. At least that last bit wouldn't last forever, if it came to it. The first two? No way to know, really, but it seems possible she could get over it. I'm struggling so hard to find out if I can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mountain House Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 It's a lot to digest and goes against the mononormative grain most of use grew up with. She doesn't understand you yet. Give it time. My wife felt broken and worried that the universe would judge her as a bad wife. Your wife is probably facing insecurities she's working through. In our discussions we committed to our authentic selves (personal and each other's) and overlayed that on the idea of staying together. Can we? Should we? Open marriage makes staying together possible. To me, you pursuing an open marriage would be telling her that you value her and your marriage. It is a way that your authentic selves can stay together. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mountain House said: To me, you pursuing an open marriage would be telling her that you value her and your marriage. It is a way that your authentic selves can stay together. This is exactly how I see it too. I feel like we’re months away from being able to say this. I’m not even sure what I would look for from her to indicate that we’re ready to talk about it in those terms. I need to look into what in me is creating this reluctance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mountain House Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Reluctance to ____? Have the conversation? It's scary. You are facing the end of your relationship with your wife head on. I had a full blown can't stop crying breakdown* when the 'I have to open up or break up' suddenly dawned on me as the dead end that it is. There are no secret trap doors to get out of it. * My wife as witness. It became real for her in that moment as well. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, Mountain House said: Reluctance to ____? Have the conversation? It's scary. You are facing the end of your relationship with your wife head on. I had a full blown can't stop crying breakdown* when the 'I have to open up or break up' suddenly dawned on me as the dead end that it is. There are no secret trap doors to get out of it. * My wife as witness. It became real for her in that moment as well. I had this, in front of spouse as well, when we talked about how this could break us up. The opening-up bit wasn't even part of it at that time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 hours ago, Mountain House said: To me, you pursuing an open marriage would be telling her that you value her and your marriage. It is a way that your authentic selves can stay together. But to the partner who is facing having their partner devote some of their attention to a third person, it can be very frightening. What if the sexual partner finds that the third person provides the "whole thing" -- an emotional and sexual relationship? There's no way that the sexual person can guarantee that that won't happen. And if that turns out to be the case, the asexual person will not only suffer through the initial stages, but will be left in the end. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 56 minutes ago, Sally said: But to the partner who is facing having their partner devote some of their attention to a third person, it can be very frightening. What if the sexual partner finds that the third person provides the "whole thing" -- an emotional and sexual relationship? There's no way that the sexual person can guarantee that that won't happen. And if that turns out to be the case, the asexual person will not only suffer through the initial stages, but will be left in the end. We get this, thanks. What I don't get is what you think alternatives are? Or should be? For me or for my spouse? Or for the hypothetical couple you might have had in mind when saying this? I'm asking because what it sounds like you're saying is, no, don't tell her that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Olallieberry Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 3/10/2023 at 7:01 PM, Ollie415 said: I guess this is what I get for anticipating that this idea might go somewhere, and keeping it to myself. On 3/14/2023 at 12:06 AM, Sally said: Yes to your last sentence. Which part? The keeping it to myself part? Or the entire idea of ENM? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Ollie415 said: Which part? The keeping it to myself part? Or the entire idea of ENM? The keeping it to yourself part. Never a good idea. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Ollie415 said: What I don't get is what you think alternatives are? Or should be? For me or for my spouse? Or for the hypothetical couple you might have had in mind when saying this? I don't know any alternatives, and it isn't my place to suggest any. But I've seen what can happen with several couples I've known -- the sexual develops pretty complete feelings for the third party. Opening up a relationship also involves another person who may want a complete relationship. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vorps Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 9 hours ago, Ollie415 said: What she specifically said when telling me "that wouldn't work for me" was, it would be too painful for her if I had sex with someone else. I kind of hate that I find myself thinking "painful compared to what?" I know what you mean. I've never been quite so disgusted with myself as I have been with some of the stuff that runs through my head. It can be hard to be charitable sometimes. Heres hoping she's able to open up and you're able to explore her reticence effectively together, and, I hope, with as little pain as possible. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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