A brief rant/vent or whatever

[RileyA]

I understand that a few ace people might have worked really hard to shame their partner into thinking that they are an awful person for needing sex, and I might be interrupting that process by talking to fellow sexuals about sex positivity and autonomy, but that's sexuals speaking to other sexuals about sexual incompatibility. 

 

If you can't take seeing that, Maybe it's better you steer clear of this part of the forum. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, RileyA said:

I understand that a few ace people might have worked really hard to shame their partner into thinking that they are an awful person for needing sex, and I might be interrupting that process by talking to fellow sexuals about sex positivity and autonomy, but that's sexuals speaking to other sexuals about sexual incompatibility. 

See, this pretty much sums up your entire perspective in a neat little sentence, coming from someone who by your own admission has never had an ace partner and never will have an ace partner. Having an ace partner would be your 'worst nightmare' according to you. Except of course when you need an ace partner to conveniently defend whatever argument you're making then suddenly an ace-questioning partner appears in the picture.

 

13 minutes ago, RileyA said:

If you can't take seeing that, Maybe it's better you steer clear of this part of the forum. 

 

You know you're being inflammatory and it's actually kind of hilarious that you get so offended and upset for being called out over all of this. ''These bullies keep arguing with my extremely offensive takes - they're targeting me personally! They couldn't possibly just be responding to my offensive takes in the same way they'd respond to anyone who spews this kind of nonsense! Woe is me!'' 

 

If you can't handle the idea that not everyone will blindly agree with you then maybe you should steer clear of the kinds of inflammatory statements you keep making? Otherwise yeah, there are many members who will call you out when they happen to stumble across whatever aggressive, uninformed nonsense you're spouting about asexuals on any given day. That's the nature of discussion forums.

 

 

[RileyA]

3 minutes ago, Major West said:

See, this pretty much sums up your entire perspective in a neat little sentence, coming from someone who by your own admission has never had an ace partner and never will have an ace partner. Having an ace partner would be your 'worst nightmare' according to you. Except of course when you need an ace partner to conveniently defend whatever argument you're making then suddenly an ace-questioning partner appears in the picture.

 

 

You know you're being inflammatory and it's actually kind of hilarious that you get so offended and upset for being called out over all of this. ''These bullies keep arguing with my extremely offensive takes - they're targeting me personally! They couldn't possibly just be responding to my offensive takes in the same way they'd respond to anyone who spews this kind of nonsense! Woe is me!'' 

 

If you can't handle the idea that not everyone will blindly agree with you then maybe you should steer clear of the kinds of inflammatory statements you keep making? Otherwise yeah, there are many members who will respond when they happen to stumble across whatever aggressive, uninformed nonsense you're spouting about asexuals on any given day. That's the nature of discussion forums.

 

 

Ah fake cop is back.

Lol you've harassed me continously for a week and you think I'm the one upset and offended. I don't think you're bullies, I think you're sad and weird. I explained my set up in my very first posts.

 

But keep highlighting your boundary and control issues as well as your obsessive resentment for those who you disagree with.  I'm sure everyone reading in the future will see the harassment, fake quotes as a sign of the type of emotional stability that they want in their relationships.

 

It will be me those sexual people dismiss as batshit crazy when they're wondering what to do about their future. Not the woman stalking some gay dude across a website.

 

I've already heard how far some users have gone on this site when they disagree with opinions. I've had inbox messages warning me not to talk to or agree with certain sexuals. You guys need to be told this isn't an acceptable way to behave when you disagree with someone. It's really crazy. And I'm starting to associate it with being ace or around ace people. At least on this site. Because some of you here act in really disturbing ways when you feel aggrieved. It needs to stop. 

[iff]

 Remember to remain civil in your responses as this thread is getting heated, avoid making accusations against other members and name calling, and consider stepping away from a thread if it is frustrating you

 

Iff,

Moderator,  sexual parterners, friends, and allies 

[Guest]

ANYWAY… since hopefully some folks got their cross-board feud out of the way in this thread (sheesh… a week and a half away and can’t tell what happened in this thread).

 

My last update post was kinda a kumbaya happy amazing post, right? Well, this update is gonna be different.
 

Mind you this doesn’t mean everything has changed course and all that is good has turned to shit. This is just about some of the odd struggles we’ve been confronting simultaneously with everything else. Every day is a new saga, yet my updates too sporadic to capture all of it.  

Warning - TMI incoming and all kinds of incoherent, unedited babbling. 

 

After 18 years of marriage, where we finally reach this point of opening up our marriage because of @TheWife11’s asexuality, how would you take it if suddenly your partner seems to now desire all that had been lacking? For all that NRE I mentioned in my last update, yeah… well… it’s also led to sex she’s initiated and desired. She also may have discovered she’s into a few kinks. 
 

WTF?! Sure, that sounds great and all, right?!? Like everything I would’ve wanted, but where the hell is it coming from?
 

Is there something legitimate here?

 

In the last 18 years the only time she’s seemed at all interested in sex has been when our relationship has been threatened in some way (reference my post a couple years ago). Well… opening up a marriage sure seems like it would fall into the category of a ‘threat’ to our marriage.
 

My wife desires me in a way that I’ve craved, yet I don’t know when or if I’ll trust where those desires are coming from. The first time she initiated something since we opened up, I had like a complete breakdown. 
 

My body yearned for that attention from her, but my mind was all over the place wondering if I shouldn’t even let it happen (the body won… remember this mind/body theme for later). How messed up is that? Like I’m in an open marriage now, and I’m wondering if I should let myself have physical intimacy with my own wife, yet be free to do so with women outside my marriage?!?!
 

In this saga it’s best to disregard any expectations on the issues you think you’ll face cause shit ain’t going to go how you think. 
 

If that has been the recent experience with @TheWife11, my experience with dating has been quite the opposite. 
 

Despite the usual experience of men in open marriages using dating apps, I’ll tell ya that I’ve had a pretty good and easy time with it. Chatted with some women, went on some dates and at this point had a couple who I’ve seen with enough regularity for ‘stuff’ to happen. 
 

The first girl things started happening prior to any of the above with my wife (a few weeks ago at this point, maybe a month?). She was into me, and I’ve been starved of being desired for sooooo many years. 
 

She’s into me, ready to do all manner of things to turn me on, and in my head I’m fully engaged in the moment, my brain flooded with sexually starved desire. WOW! I FINALLY have the freedom to explore all of the excitement created by my new non-monogamous marriage, right?!?!

 

Uhhh…. Hmmmm… errrr…. So why is nothing happening down there? 
 

What the hell? It’s supposed to be the brain that keeps us from resisting urges, right? How is it that my man parts seem to have missed the non-monogamous memo?!
 

Yeah, so for whatever issues someone thinks they’ll face in these situations, what you actually deal with is going to be a helluva lot different. Am I just getting older (42)? Am I just not into this girl enough? I mean she’s different than the usual girl I’d be attracted to, but she’s cute. I don’t ‘feel’ nervous, but maybe there’s something else going on? Is my trauma deeper than I realized (well… yeah, I’ve already learned that lesson, but THIS isn’t the time I’d think to have that issue)? 
 

uggg…. 
 

I probably should’ve started with the TMI about dating and then mentioned the TMI about @TheWife11 because I was left wondering if I was broken here, but when my wife made her advances on me, there have been zero physical issues. 
 

lf all this wasn’t enough TMI, I mentioned two ladies.

 

If the first one was cool, albeit more non-standard, the second who I’m still talking with regularly is much more akin to someone I’d normally be attracted to. Conversation with her (let’s call her Allison), is great, our personalities are similar, and yeah, I’m quite attracted to her. Well, if my wife’s continued advances confirm how physically stuff works, Allison helped confirm that while my head tells me I’m ENM, my man bits are telling me that I’m still very much monogamous. 

 

When I started this rambling post, this isn’t the update I was intending to write. I definitely need to make some updates regarding @TheWife11’s struggles with the idea of me dating, and our continued conversations. I’m leaving the update with this though as it will help add color to how much of a mess this can all be (oh yeah, and I gotta include how it was wayyyy to early in all of this to have my wife and ‘Allison’ meet one another… there’s another award I’ll win for colossal stupidity). 

 

At the moment I’m left with a non-monogamous marriage where it looks like I’m destined to simply be friends with women outside of my marriage, and a wife who is the only one who can turn me on, yet eighteen years of our history leaves me unable to trust where her desire is coming from.

 

This trust really is the toughest part to reconcile what it means for our future. We’re so early in this process where everything that is good about us is because we forced the issue, opened and started communicating. It ‘feels’ like it is too early to call an end to being ‘open,’ despite all appearances being at this moment we are right in the place I’ve always dreamed of, but given up all hope of having. 
 

Anyway, this shit is just confusing as all hell… WAY more confusing than I ever imagined it would be. 
 

I don’t know what’s next. 

(Will edit later if this all reads like a bunch of nonsense). 

 

[Mountain House]

48 minutes ago, HiddenKS said:

shit ain’t going to go how you think. 

Word!

 

53 minutes ago, HiddenKS said:

It’s supposed to be the brain that keeps us from resisting urges, right?

Your brain is telling you this story. Your body decides (and remembers).

 

57 minutes ago, HiddenKS said:

it was wayyyy to early in all of this to have my wife and ‘Allison’ meet one another… there’s another award I’ll win for colossal stupidity

Oh my. Did they want to?

 

57 minutes ago, HiddenKS said:

I don’t know what’s next. 

[OPINION]

Slow way TF down.  Don't change your relationship style, don't seek more partners, concentrate on the partner(s) you have, and make damn sure your relationship with @TheWife11 is healthy and strong. You will have to be able to answer the following without a doubt:

 

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

but where the hell is it coming from?

...

I’m wondering if I should let myself have physical intimacy with my own wife

...

unable to trust where her desire is coming from.

...

This trust really is the toughest part to reconcile

 

As for most of the rest of your story. Ditto. It gets better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mountain House said:

Oh my. Did they want to?

It was @TheWife11’s idea. First time I met Allison in person just for a cup of coffee. Allison mentioned being fine with meeting spouses (provided we’re not talking unicorn type of thing). I think the idea behind it was that since nothing had gone anywhere up to that point, the wife meeting someone sooner rather than later wouldn’t be threatening.  The wife was more comfortable with her in part because Allison was more like me than her (another previous mistake of mine with the first girl was telling my wife about what they had in common). 
 

I may be misremembering the reason here though cause we’re both kinda traumatized by the attempt. The wife wasn’t ready. Wasn’t my idea, but I shoulda called it off before we left the house. 

1 hour ago, Mountain House said:

OPINION

Dude, you know your opinion is gospel to the both of us, right? 
 

1 hour ago, Mountain House said:

Slow way TF down.  Don't change your relationship style, don't seek more partners, concentrate on the partner(s) you have, and make damn sure your relationship with @TheWife11 is healthy and strong.

Oh yeah. I’ve disabled my profile on the apps, not talking to anyone new at present. too much, too many, too fast. 
 

We’re staying open, but pretty much Allison is the only other person I’m talking to at the moment. It was never really my objective to or date many. In a way it was an accident I talked to more than a couple. 
 

When I started using the dating apps, reading about the M/F dynamics, I just presumed my response rate would be pretty low and take a long time to meet anyone. Yet another thing I was wrong about and wasn’t really prepared for. 

 

2 hours ago, Mountain House said:

You will have to be able to answer the following without a doubt:

And that, my trusted mentor, is the thing that I have no clue how I’ll possibly answer. 
 

The thing I’m most hesitant for her to know is simply that everything we’ve become in this short time is all I’d ever need. 
 

Isn’t that messed up? 

[Mountain House]

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

Isn’t that messed up? 

Nope. We learn through experimentation. Now you know more about yourself.

 

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

that is the thing that I have no clue how I’ll possibly answer

Give it time. It will come.

 

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

telling my wife about what they had in common

🤭 newbie mistake. Nobody likes to be compared.

 

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

Wasn’t my idea, but I shoulda called it off before we left the house

Another Newbie mistake but this one is on her. She chose it. It's not your job or place to manage @TheWife11's choices or emotions. She knows a little more about herself. 

[RileyA]

It's pretty common to have some performance anxiety in this situation. Dint make penetrative sex the goal, have fun, and you should be okay after a while

[Windmills of My Mind]

17 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

After 18 years of marriage, where we finally reach this point of opening up our marriage because of @TheWife11’s asexuality, how would you take it if suddenly your partner seems to now desire all that had been lacking? For all that NRE I mentioned in my last update, yeah… well… it’s also led to sex she’s initiated and desired. She also may have discovered she’s into a few kinks. 
 

WTF?! Sure, that sounds great and all, right?!? Like everything I would’ve wanted, but where the hell is it coming from?
 

Is there something legitimate here?

 

In the last 18 years the only time she’s seemed at all interested in sex has been when our relationship has been threatened in some way (reference my post a couple years ago). Well… opening up a marriage sure seems like it would fall into the category of a ‘threat’ to our marriage.
 

My wife desires me in a way that I’ve craved, yet I don’t know when or if I’ll trust where those desires are coming from. The first time she initiated something since we opened up, I had like a complete breakdown. 

This sounds so familiar. You've had this happen only once it seems. For me it is a repeating cycle. Whenever I spoke up and made it clear that I was unhappy about the situation up to a point where something *had* to happen, we'd see an increase in activity, sometimes a little, sometimes more. For many years this has again and again fed my expectation that things would improve at some time in the future. But the decreases went further, my unhappiness in the dry spells got worse and worse. Last year I felt like I had reached rock bottom and lost faith that something would ever improve for real.

 

That's when we did not open up in the traditional sense, but I did open up the conversation about our sex life (by means of a proverbial crowbar - just saying I was unhappy would not work). We started talking more about sexuality and what it meant to us, what we wanted and expected. At least I did, she did not - she is still working on finding that out. Again a little improvement but things wore off again. I thought I reached rock bottom last year. A few weeks ago was yet much worse. I was literally sick for over a week. She still questioned the validity of my desire and the impact it had on me. Took long talks. We are now seeing a sex therapist. Things have improved these last few weeks. While I am happy about that, and about the help we are now getting as a couple, I will not break open the champagne just yet. Could be just another iteration of the same old circle, ultimately leading to yet another dry spell.

 

Rant over. Just a note that what seems to have happened once to you, sounds extremely familiar to me. The only difference being that it has happened to me countless times.

[Mountain House]

47 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

For me it is a repeating cycle.

Same except that is in the past now. Learning about the ace-spectrum has really freed us from this. We even used to call it the cycle. No kidding. We knew it was happening but couldn't figure out how to get out of it.

 

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

The only difference being that it has happened to me countless times.

Unfortunately, no it isn’t our first time and it has been a repeating cycle, but the degree of it is what is quite different now. 
 

In the past it would be very much like what your situation sounds like. I’d suppress my desires, stuff would boil over, we’d have ‘that talk,’ followed by a brief period of sex, till we were right back where we were before.

 

The most profound instance though was about 8-9 years ago where I had met someone, felt I was starting to develop feelings for this person, and ran home to talk to my wife about everything. Nothing happened with this other person, but during that time I was invariably talking about our sexual issues, and that was also the first time we had talked about finding a real solution and ‘opening up’ our marriage. Technically we did agree to open then, but that was only in words, not deeds (and good that nothing was done about it cause those are not the right circumstances to open). 
 

Anyway, following those conversations back then, which were right at our ten year anniversary I phrased it in such a way about how “the first decade of our marriage has been like this, and I absolutely will not be married for another 10 like this.” Between having feelings for this other person, the ten year anniversary ultimatum of sorts, and opening our marriage in words, the ‘threat’ to our marriage was greater, as was the sexual response from her end. 
 

At other point in this cycle we’d have sex, that specific time in the cycle there was more of it, and it was a point where I actually felt desired. She was more engaged in it. 
 

In the end, it was just a sharp spike in the cycle, but not a lasting change. 
 

Now, fast forward to everything happening now and everything ‘feels’ quite different than ever before in our relationship. We are truly communicating now, we did agree to open our marriage more than just in words, I have been dating, and we’ve been having sex again. More than just having sex, she seems highly desirous of it. Truly, between the way we are talking, and how I ‘feel’ desired, it is everything I would’ve ever wanted my marriage to be….

 

That is IF I could truly trust where this is all coming from because of how things had been in previous cycles. Yes, everything feels very different. The level of communication we have is totally new, and beyond that where she has been an emotionless brick wall in the past, she’s awash with feelings. 
 

She feels like she is a completely different person than before. I feel like she is as well. I feel like sexually she is more like the girl I proposed to, and not the person I’ve been married to. 
 

I FEEL all of this, but I don’t yet know if I can trust my feelings. My fear is that the response from her is commensurate with the level of the threat to our relationship. Everything feels different, but also the threat level that comes with an open marriage, and dating also is different. 
 

Anyhoo, while the post before this last one was about all of the good stuff between us, I wanted to make sure I’m also sharing how messed up and difficult this all is. We both know that if she was this person prior to THE talk, then we would’ve never opened up our relationship in the first place, yet we’re only in the place we are because of the more serious steps we’ve taken. 

We are staying on this path. 
 

Never would’ve guessed though where this has ended up. Never would’ve thought having everything I’ve always wanted with her would be so confusing. 
 

Trust is a mindfuck. 
 

1 hour ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

We are now seeing a sex therapist.

How is that going? We’re you seeing them before you started posting here or is this in the last few weeks? Does the therapist understand asexuality and the complications it adds? Just curious cause the tone of your posts has shifted quite a bit, so wondering how it is all going. 

[Windmills of My Mind]

2 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

 

4 hours ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

We are now seeing a sex therapist.

How is that going? We’re you seeing them before you started posting here or is this in the last few weeks? Does the therapist understand asexuality and the complications it adds? Just curious cause the tone of your posts has shifted quite a bit, so wondering how it is all going. 

It is all quite new, just got started, no idea as of yet where it is going. The therapist understands asexuality. My partner does not think the label applies, and I must say we have seen a few days that were way beyond what happened in years. Followed by a brief and again inexplicable relapse. I really don't know where this is going at this point.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

I really don't know where this is going at this point.

Welcome to the club 😜

 

Still, you’re prompting new action, and forcing change. Hopefully this works out for you, but if not you’ve checked off one action to take, and are more ready to try the ‘next’ option. 
 

An easy and fast win would be nice one of these days, right? 
 

Keep on keeping on! 

[Traveler40]

1 hour ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

I really don't know where this is going at this point.

Same quote, but my thought is, “yes, you do.”

At least as it pertains to sex with your wife. 

 

What you both do about it is the unknown.

 

To @HiddenKS - Your wife has not changed. You seem to not know this yet. 😬

[TheWife11]

29 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

To @HiddenKS - Your wife has not changed. You seem to not know this yet. 😬

What do you mean by this?

[Traveler40]

16 hours ago, TheWife11 said:

What do you mean by this?

It’s the cycle. Any sexual partner of an asexual can pretty much see this across time.
 

Only you can identify. If you are indeed ace, it’s your orientation and that’s not going to change. Many ace partners give sexuals false hope that locks us in.
Hope is a powerful aphrodisiac.
 

i am not saying you’re doing this intentionally.
 

Have you identified as ace or are you still working through it?

[Traveler40]

12 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

My fear is that the response from her is commensurate with the level of the threat to our relationship.

Furthermore, this is a hedge on saying what he already knows deep down, but is still being head faked by the hope In the moment. 

[Windmills of My Mind]

14 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

Just curious cause the tone of your posts has shifted quite a bit,

Just curious, too 😄

How has the tone of my posts shifted? I can imagine you see change, things are changing all the time at my end. I am sincerely curious what change you perceive.

[TheWife11]

10 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

It’s the cycle. Any sexual partner of an asexual can pretty much see this across time.
 

Only you can identify. If you are indeed ace, it’s your orientation and that’s not  going to change. Many ace partners give sexuals false hope that locks us in.
Hope is a powerful aphrodisiac.
 

i am not saying you’re doing this intentionally.
 

Have you identified as ace or are you still working through it?

I’m not ace. 

[Traveler40]

1 minute ago, TheWife11 said:

I’m not ace. 

🤔

 

Then why this thread? Why AVEN? I’m confused. 

[Traveler40]

Not saying this is a parallel, but it popped into my head given we are here and your husband picked this venue for reasons only he can answer….

 

My very ace husband adamantly was not ace. Recently he quasi admitted to being ace, then promptly forgot it. 
 

There is the old, “walks like a duck, quacks like a duck” thing that has floated around for as long as I’ve been here. Who knows, only you two can figure it out, but his experience is legitimate. 
 

One more random: My spouse never identified, and I was bothered by the legitimization and acceptance of it for a while due to that fact. Frankly, it sucked.
 

I’m not saying you’re ace, only you can figure that out. I’m also saying that his perspective is legitimate until it’s sorted. His experience matters, and he shouldn’t be held hostage in the meantime.  
 

FWIW - I’m pro best life, whatever that means for you both. 

[RileyA]

I'm not sure it matters if the person is ace or not. 

[Traveler40]

I agree to the extent that the identification is irrelevant to the sexual. You stated it more succinctly.

 

It’s a bit awkward to have a couple to contend with, but I think the benefits are potentially great to folks in the same situation.

 

It feels awkward to throw down my thoughts though.
 

Real people, real feelings, real time - tough. 

[Traveler40]

Ahem, might I suggest that folks go back and read the first post on this thread?
 

I reread it to remind myself why we are here, and it appears straightforward from the partner’s perspective.

Sure, one post. Legitimate nonetheless.

[Guest]

Well damn… this is getting more complicated huh? 
 

11 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Only you can identify. If you are indeed ace, it’s your orientation and that’s not  going to change.

Perhaps, but why? Why is it that so many of our partners, like your husband do not identify? I mean ace isn’t a simple, and clear label. 
 

If someone is hardcore Demi, that’s an aspect of the spectrum, but no one could ‘really’ could identify as Demi until they actually found that connection. Ace ain’t easy, and who ever knows WTF ‘spectrum,’ ever really means? 

In our discussions here we often say to ‘disregard’ the label, while most of use are here because of it. 
 

It’s all a mess. 

 

16 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Your wife has not changed. You seem to not know this yet. 😬

Even given what I said above, yeah, you may be right, but you may be wrong. Therein lies the confusion. 
 

There’s a helluva lot that’s different with us right now, and very unexpected. Our history, and the cycle prevents me from believing it, but yeah, there’s hope we’ve broken some kind of barrier. 
 

All you need is hope? 
 

or 

 

It’s the hope that kills us? 
 

I don’t know if her feelings are a MASSIVE spike, but still just part of the cycle, or if it truly is different. For the time being, that’s why I’m resolved to stay on this path of being open. In the past I let myself be sucked into the cycle too easily. 
 

At the same time, @TheWife11 is a main character in my story here. I’m not disregarding the past, but I also don’t want to be shackled to it. 
 

For the time being, the other people in my story, are supporting cast. It is too early for someone like ‘Allison,’ or the others to be anything else. 
 

44 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Real people, real feelings, real time - tough. 

Exactly. Updates here are at least close to real time, stream of consciousness absent the benefit of reflection, rationalization or conclusions. 
 

You’re getting my twists, turns and @TheWife11 is here as well whose perspective may at times look in conflict. She is going through her own struggles, and confusion as well. 
 

In our weekly checkup chat, all of this stuff was very much the subject. It was the first conversation we’ve had since we started this journey that didn’t end well. We’re right in the middle of taking a step back before we figure out how to move forward. 
 

One thing we could agree on though last night is that if she had held onto the ‘Ace’ label, then a lot of this would’ve been a whole lot easier, while also keeping us further apart from one another. 
 

We’re both confused. Same issues, same characters, but different perspectives. 
 

7 hours ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Just curious, too 😄

How has the tone of my posts shifted? I can imagine you see change, things are changing all the time at my end. I am sincerely curious what change you perceive.

You have a hint of optimism. A hint of progress, and resolve to alter your situation. I dunno, but it seems like you have a little more belief that you do have some measure of control. Like me though, not at a point where you know a result, still confused, but shades that it at least may be possible to break the cycle. 
 

It also appears from other posts that you’re putting in the work, reading some of the things folks like @Mountain House suggested. Most people come here, make a couple posts, but disappear or wallow. You appear so far at least like you’re trying to do something about it. 
 

We’ll both have setbacks, probably both break down in the future, but we’re trying, right? 
 

 

[anisotrophic]

I think it's fair to observe "what someone believes about themselves is valuable information, but it's useful to others only insofar as it helps them in predicting future behavior".

There are going to be people in relationships that do not identify as asexual, and it's difficult to impossible to ever fully "prove" a negative. There are going to be partners that come to conclude a partner cannot and will never desire sex, and it is justified as they've done their best (within reason) to explore other explanations. There are going to be partners that come to it as a suspected explanation, and believe they should explore more. There are going to be partners for which the explanation is too convenient, they're reluctant to consider their own role. And our capacity to sort through these is limited, third hand, based on limited information.

 

@TheWife11 I think it might be important for you to introspect and try to find an explanation for why things happened as they did, and determine if there's some way that explanation can be used to avoid undesired outcomes in the future. I think it would be very understandable to feel upset and hurt by suspicion or accusation of "deceptive change" that disappears in the future. And I think those suspicions do come from an understandable place: it's a common human pattern to see "dramatic change" that is ephemeral, followed by a relapse into old patterns. Sustained change is possible, and it doesn't require the belief of others -- but it does often require some internal effort (which might be any of a variety of things -- introspection, problem solving, anticipating future contexts, taking responsibility for one's role e.g. in communication, etc).

 

@HiddenKS I think it's fairly normal to have permission to have sex with others and not feel very "drawn" to it. I think sometimes there's two sides of a coin in "poly" -- (1) capacity to be okay with a partner having other partners (for something like sustained trust; distress is absent or navigable, possibly countered by positives e.g. "compersion"), (2) desire and capacity to have multiple partners (for interpersonal attraction and potentially bonding with multiple people).

[Personal experience: in our own marriage so far (nearly 18 years now)... #1 has been true. But the "desire" aspect of #2 was entirely absent, and so it went unrealized. Then I did fall in love, a handful of years ago, while not seeking it. That never was romantic, but it has evolved to be a friend who matters as much to me as a partner might -- and so my capacity to "bond" to multiple people turned out to exist (but I never knew it, it was chance rather than sought, and it has been a strange thing to experience). I think it's been a source of support that's helped me get through a period of marital distress -- stabilizing rather than destabilizing. I don't think it always happens that way, and I think it speaks well of my friend, maybe it's what I would want in any close relationship (to support me without destabilizing other relationships), and I would want to be the same for him. My "desire" to seek new partners remains very low: I messed around with dating apps a year and a half ago (both spouse and friend knew and were positive) but I never got past a couple uninteresting conversations. Too much work, too many other priorities.]

 

And some thoughts about the new situation...

1. maybe some level of "challenge" without being "too much" (feeling threatened or pressured) resulted in increased sexual interest. If that's the case, it might be good to find ways to keep it in a goldilocks zone.

2. a current spike may be an opportunity to train arousal triggers (and really, it's happening anyway -- any time arousal occurs). You might read up on conditioning, get deliberately aware of how association occurs and can trigger future arousal.

[Mountain House]

2 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

It feels awkward to throw down my thoughts though.

The value of having a couple here diminishes if we hold back though.

 

Their story is a rerun for me. @TheWife11is pretty much following the script that my wife followed.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

The value of having a couple here diminishes if we hold back though.

 

Their story is a rerun for me. @TheWife11is pretty much following the script that my wife followed.

@Mountain House - You are just an amazing human being and your wife is so fortunate to have you in her life. 
 

That’s it for now. Have to work so I can get outta here. So burned out from the week. 
 

30 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

current spike may be an opportunity to train arousal triggers (and really, it's happening anyway -- any time arousal occurs)

@anisotrophic - I haven’t said much about it beyond the word ‘link’ in one of my earlier posts, but something along the lines here actually is a MASSIVE part of why we’re are both questioning so much of what we thought we knew. 
 

It has added so much to the confusion I wrote about, and alters the path we thought we were on. I guess I’d say it has been less about training triggers, and more about ‘holy shit, have these been here the whole time?!?’ Did we simple anchor to the wrong moments in our past? 
 

But then that’s where the confusion if this is a spike, yet still a part of the cycle, or a break in it. 

[Traveler40]

Quick thoughts:

 

1. @Mountain House agreed. That’s why I endeavor to comment even if uncomfortable.

 

2. @HiddenKS of course it’s more complicated. Y’all were a bit too euphoric at the outset which smacked of “first days of therapy” euphoria. That is, before the real work starts….

 

Also, demi is on the spectrum. You need to ask yourself, if she was demi, then why were you celibate for the time you were? It’s incongruent. You have to work it out for yourself though.
 

While I speak my mind, I’m rooting for the best outcome for you both, however that looks. It is not my intent to knock what’s happening. My perspective is farther away and may be useful, or not. 

 

@anisotropic should be read and reread. Their thoughts are such a value to me. Thank you as always.