#Trans + non-binary problems

[Heart]

*warm comforting hugs to The-world-is-quiet-here*

I'm so sorry your mother can't understand your gender struggles, and that it's so hard to find a therapist that does. If you try asserting your gender to the therapist, and telling her that she's wrong, how does she react? Sometimes, correcting a therapist is enough to make them realize that they may have said something invalidating. And sometimes, saying something like "If you're not a man or a woman, then to me you must be both" is a way of saying "I don't know anything about nonbinary gender identities that aren't a combination of the two binary ones, but I don't know how to ask"... I mean, you were there and I was not. So perhaps that's not the situation at all. But if you think this therapist is overall worth another try, I guess that's something to try?

I'm sorry you have to fight for your identity though. That's a really sucky thing to have to do.

Hehe. I wish I could just choose my sexual orientation. I'd choose to become sexual for a bit, just to see what it's like. I'd take being a lesbian. Or straight, I'm not picky. Or bi.

But for real serious talk. I think this is invalidating to people whose orientation does change after a traumatic experience too. I know there are documented cases of a straight woman becoming a lesbian after a traumatic event (rape, or an abusive relationship, for example). But that's not the same as a choice. She didn't just up and choose to never date men again because she "hates men" or something. If it were that much of a choice, half my straight women friends would have made that choice at least for a little while after bad breakups (or so they've said). Maybe for some people it is a choice, but I know that many people don't find it to be a choice.

And heck, even if it were... why is that somehow less valid? I know that the quotation doesn't actually say that, but far too often, people who say things like that are implying that if they can explain someone's orientation with a reason, then it's less "real" somehow. Like, she's just a lesbian because a man beat her up that once. But she's not really a lesbian. It's like they're saying that these trans women don't really like women, they just don't like men. So they're lesbians, because that's how all this works, right?

Mmm, Heart, this is actually really tough for me. I totally see what you're saying, and agree with a lot of it. Cases of assault or abuse notwithstanding of course, all my life I was told again and again and again that sexual orientation is not a choice, and that so much of what people agitated for was based on that premise. After all, if it's choosable, suddenly conversion therapy has a leg to stand on. It's just a very scary can of worms I'm afraid to open.

The person who wrote that quote is in fact a trans woman (who ironically seems to be in a pretty abusive relationship with her wife, it's very sad). I understand that there are situations (especially with asexuals) where our orientations are explained away, and that's not right, of course. Though that's not how I read the line. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me she was saying a "general distrust" (which is awfully vague) and a "fear of violence" were being used to make a choice. Both of those are based on things that haven't actually happened. See what I mean? It's really tough. I think she's treading a very fine line and even that makes me very uncomfortable.

Ugh! I'm just so conflicted. I maybe flew off the handle a little too much initially, but still. Whenever I see any implication that people can just choose their orientation, or gender for that matter, there's an immediate red alert in my head. I wouldn't have chosen what I am. It just is who I am, and I deal the best I can. Any implication that I "chose" it is so unfathomably hurtful. If it really was an innocuous line that happened to hit on a personal sore spot for me, I'm sorry.

I think we're actually mostly agreeing, and I maybe just didn't phrase it well. I was saying that even if people's gender and/or sexual orientation does change, that doesn't make it a choice. Heck, my gender changes without my consent all the time. It's not like I choose immense amounts of dysphoria every once in a while.

And you're right. Conversion therapy is a terrifying thing, and I would never want to open that door. The only company where you'll hear me saying that there may be some people who can will-fully change their gender is somewhere like here, where the atmosphere is accepting. I've never met someone who had full control of their gender, but I'm just allowing for the possibility I guess. Nothing's impossible.

[sir octepus tea]

don't know if these have been done but

"only pan people can date nb people"

"so are you a nonbinary girl or nonbinary boy?"

"asexual and agender mean the same thing"

I chose my current therapist because she said she dealt with nonbinary and transgender issues. I was trying to explain to her that I was nonbinary, and she said, "Well, if you're not male or female, to me you're both!"
Huh? In what world does "neither" mean "both"? I mean, I guess if you're genderfluid and fluctuate between the two main binary genders that could be the case, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I was upset about this conversation, so I tried to talk to my mom about it. The main thing I remember her saying was:
"It's hard for someone who's not on the gender spectrum to understand the 55 shades in between." Earlier, she had asked me if my therapist was cis, and I said something like "I don't know. She says she doesn't care." And then we got to that point. Later, my mom asked me, "Are you going to switch from [current therapist]? I know that's why you switched from [past therapist]. It seems kind of drastic." By that point, I had started crying in front of her, and she was taking off her makeup so she didn't notice.
Kind of drastic. It's "kind of drastic" for me to want to change therapists to somebody who can understand me? I am surrounded by cis people who don't understand.
I'm so done. :/

I'm sorry to hear about that. if you decide to change (which I fully support), I hope you find someone a bit more knowledgeable/respectful

[ChillaKilla]

I'm bisexual and NB. Come at me, biphobes! :D

[The-world-is-quiet-here]

*accepts hugs from Heart*

Yeah, the strange thing about that is that my mom seemed accepting of my gender stuff in the past. Since I've come out to her, she doesn't understand it, but she tries to be respectful, and most of the time, she is.

I don't know how my therapist would react- if she would apologize or just continue asserting her opinion. I tried telling her she was wrong during our last appointment, but I guess I was too subtle. I'm not sure what she meant by that comment either.

I'm going to try to talk to my therapist about it at the beginning of my appointment tomorrow.

My mom and I have been avoiding the subject. I think she knows I'm upset about it, but I don't want to talk about it (at least, not to her). Whenever I think about starting the conversation again, I feel upset and angry again.

I wouldn't be so upset with fighting for my identity if I knew what that identity was, but I feel like I'm just floundering.

I'll let you all know how my appointment goes. Hopefully I won't have to add another entry to the "Annoying things cis people say" post. :)

[All the little Lights]

If someone wants to compliment me by saying:

"You are such a beautiful/inspiring/clever/... young woman!"

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment. But couldn't you say person?

[Mychemicalqpr]

Even before I realized I was agender I would correct people to say person and tell them that my gender is irrelevant to being beautiful/inspiring/clever. It was eventually noticing this that started my questioning.

[All the little Lights]

Yes, I realized a long time ago that the "woman" part doesn't fit quite right. But I thought it was only about growing up.

Now I found out: When you're a kid, you are just a child.

But when you are an adult, you are a woman or a man.

(I don't see it that way of course, but somehow the people around me and their language imply that.)

Of course my characteristics don't have anything to do with my gender. This is such a strange thought to me!

Sometimes, I think people are even saying it to remind themselves that I'm a woman. But why??? (rhetorical question, no need to answer :P )

And sometimes, they even leave out the beautiful/inspiring/clever/... part. They are just complimenting me for being a woman. Well...

[deltaX]

And sometimes, they even leave out the beautiful/inspiring/clever/... part. They are just complimenting me for being a woman. Well...

If I had a dollar for every time someone tells me it's so great that I'm a woman in STEM, I'd be the richest grad student ever... And yet I still fail to see why I should be complimented for my gender. I'd much rather people compliment me on my research or work as a TA or something else that's actually relevant :huh:

[Mychemicalqpr]

So yesterday I was with my role playing group, which consists of me, my brother, my zucchini, her siblings and dad, her friend, and his dad as the game master. I can get why people would assume that I seem like a girl, because I do like necklaces and skirts and wearing colors other than black, grey, and the occasional dull boring red, blue, or green, but I do not see why they would keep forgetting my cleric isn't a woman, and it's rather jarring to hear "she" used repeatedly when it fits neither the player or the character. He isn't even genderqueer; he is just a male bodied man, and his name sounds masculine. Is there no way for me to escape femininity?

[UncommonNonsense]

So yesterday I was with my role playing group, which consists of me, my brother, my zucchini, her siblings and dad, her friend, and his dad as the game master. I can get why people would assume that I seem like a girl, because I do like necklaces and skirts and wearing colors other than black, grey, and the occasional dull boring red, blue, or green, but I do not see why they would keep forgetting my cleric isn't a woman, and it's rather jarring to hear "she" used repeatedly when it fits neither the player or the character. He isn't even genderqueer; he is just a male bodied man, and his name sounds masculine. Is there no way for me to escape femininity?

And this is one reason I never really liked joining in with my (long, long ex) boyfriend's tabletop gaming group... I was the only female-bodied person in the group, and I always played male characters (and usually the most macho, masculine, manly ones I could possibly create, like a blacksmith, a warrior, and a mercenary as examples) but the rest of the all-young-male group always called my characters 'she' or 'her' despite me designing, naming, and drawing them as clearly male. They could not get past my (unfortunate) IRL physical gender no matter how much I tried to man-up my characters.. And the guys who played female characters always played prostitutes or women of 'easy virtue', who were designed to be total sex-pots - and wanted me to draw their characters (I drew everyone's characters for them) as basically Dungeons and Dragons or Magic: the Gathering porn. Um.... no... How about 'no'.

After weeks of that, I gave up trying to join in the game and just confined myself to serving drinks, cleaning up their empty cans/bottles, making and serving snacks, and chatting with his mother.

It really was painfully clear that my (ex) BF's friends had absolutely no experience in being around real, physical, non-game, non-imagined women, and they routinely said things that made me want to hit them in the crotch with a small nuclear warhead.

[butterflydreams]

And sometimes, they even leave out the beautiful/inspiring/clever/... part. They are just complimenting me for being a woman. Well...

If I had a dollar for every time someone tells me it's so great that I'm a woman in STEM, I'd be the richest grad student ever... And yet I still fail to see why I should be complimented for my gender. I'd much rather people compliment me on my research or work as a TA or something else that's actually relevant :huh:

Hell, if you're even just a person in STEM people should compliment you. It's a huge pain in the ass, takes a ton of time, you might even get bitter about it (lol, I did). But you meet cool and eccentric people along the way. It's kind of like having a second family. When you spend 12-14 hours a day with the same goofballs ;)

[Nylocke]

So yesterday I was with my role playing group, which consists of me, my brother, my zucchini, her siblings and dad, her friend, and his dad as the game master. I can get why people would assume that I seem like a girl, because I do like necklaces and skirts and wearing colors other than black, grey, and the occasional dull boring red, blue, or green, but I do not see why they would keep forgetting my cleric isn't a woman, and it's rather jarring to hear "she" used repeatedly when it fits neither the player or the character. He isn't even genderqueer; he is just a male bodied man, and his name sounds masculine. Is there no way for me to escape femininity?

And this is one reason I never really liked joining in with my (long, long ex) boyfriend's tabletop gaming group... I was the only female-bodied person in the group, and I always played male characters (and usually the most macho, masculine, manly ones I could possibly create, like a blacksmith, a warrior, and a mercenary as examples) but the rest of the all-young-male group always called my characters 'she' or 'her' despite me designing, naming, and drawing them as clearly male. They could not get past my (unfortunate) IRL physical gender no matter how much I tried to man-up my characters.. And the guys who played female characters always played prostitutes or women of 'easy virtue', who were designed to be total sex-pots - and wanted me to draw their characters (I drew everyone's characters for them) as basically Dungeons and Dragons or Magic: the Gathering porn. Um.... no... How about 'no'.

After weeks of that, I gave up trying to join in the game and just confined myself to serving drinks, cleaning up their empty cans/bottles, making and serving snacks, and chatting with his mother.

It really was painfully clear that my (ex) BF's friends had absolutely no experience in being around real, physical, non-game, non-imagined women, and they routinely said things that made me want to hit them in the crotch with a small nuclear warhead.

Yikes, now that I think back its probably a good thing that I never got involved with my ex and his campaigns for pathfinder. His best friend did have a chick living with him so he was about the only other one(besides my ex) who was actually dating someone. My ex did know I was genderqueer and I had told him when my own family didn't know but I guess I will never know now that I've long cut him loose.

[Sibemarie]

About annoying things cis people say i have a lot.

One i remember i went out to a bar with one friend i knew for a couple of years, to have a drink. We usually had a good time, with other friends as well, but sometimes i could feel that he had a few "innocent" romantic jokes or whatever they are called. Once he was curious and asked if i ever fell in love, and i said no, i did not, and i am ok with that.

He was shocked. "How can you be ok with that? "

And i "Honestly, really i don't feel the need for being with someone"

And he, still visibly shocked "I don't believe it!"

Me "But believe me, i am being honest. I don't need and i don't want love or sex"

He was apalled "I cannot understand how on Earth is it possible! How can someone dont want or need it? how? I just can't believe or understand"

Me: "As far as i am ok with that, that's none of your business. But about understand or not, that 's your problem. There is for sure a lot in Universe that we donbt understand but still exists!"

I was a little angry but i was almost going home so the conversation ended up there. I think the guy went home all shocked and confused. Some time later we met again and we were out and he came with the goddamn subject "Why dont you try to give yourself an oportunity? Look at the guys, see what you feel"

Me "Ok some of they are handsome. That's all. Nothing else!"

He "Maybe you should try to explore your body"

Me (angry) "Damn hell! If i dont want i DONT want, ok? Just.as.simple.as.that!!!"

He "Ok ok, sorry i wont talk about that again"

I was really p*ssed off, like grrrr. He was being immenselly annoying.

He was not a bad person. He was friendly ad fun, but when it reaches the sex-love subject i got always p*ssed off with him! Fortunatelly, later on, i think he slightly changed his mind, i started sending him info about asexuality so i believe he might be a little more convinced of our reality nowadays. I hope he opened his horizons.

 

[The Mechanic]

My coworker: "Nah, you just think that way because you haven't gotten any pussy yet"

[fiѕh]

"If you were a woman... [insert random very unplatonic thing they'd do with you]"

 

I'm not even ACTUALLY not-CIS. I mean, not really... but this is fucking weird.

[Nylocke]

On 11/27/2016 at 11:47 PM, jackdog1 said:

My coworker: "Nah, you just think that way because you haven't gotten any pussy yet"

 

... Seriously this is why I can't stand cishet dudes.

[Dodecahedron314]

The first-years in my dorm decided to build giant snow genitalia to celebrate the first snow of the year, because of course they did. -_- 

I can see the quad where this was happening from my window, and it looked like they were just building a snowman from where I was, so I went down there to join in. A close friend and acquaintance were down there as well, both kind of facepalming at the situation because they're both on the ace spectrum. I joined them instead, and said I'd thought the first-years were building a snowman. The acquaintance said "Well, they're building a snow part of a man."

 

He seemed to have forgotten that he was talking to a trans girl and an agender person who occasionally swings transmasculine. 

[fiѕh]

On 11/28/2016 at 5:47 AM, jackdog1 said:

My coworker: "Nah, you just think that way because you haven't gotten any pussy yet"

 

How much of it can he have had if he still thinks pussy is magic...?

[just an owl]

Right, so where do I begin...

The other day in my Computing class, my teacher was trying to use an example where you'd have two options so inevitably... gender, just saying something like "you're male or female"

And everyone else was going "ooooh controversial!!" and making all those typical "how dare you assume my gender" jokes.

 

I figured it was just for that lesson, but today, it came up again, and people looking up all the "obscure" genders, then "gender and sex are the same", "you either have a dick or you don't". To my surprise, some guy (considering some of his other transphobic and homophobic comments) was slightly defending trans people, bringing up some of the brain map studies etc and that gender is different to sex.

I didn't properly overhear the next part.. but I swear the guy next to me said something about "putting them [trans people????] down". Could've not properly heard that part but still.

Anyway. Fuck that class.

[ChillaKilla]

Screw people who still think "triggered" and "did you just assume my gender" jokes are funny. They're something a stupid 11 year old would say. And don't get me started on the attack helicopter people. Like, what is this? 2009?

[just an owl]

@ChillaKilla Okay that's basically half the people I know at college

I'm real fucking fed up of it

It's generally just a reminder of "Well this is why I'm in the closet"

Not that only transphobic people make these jokes ... but I sure as hell feel uncomfortable around people who do make those jokes.

[AsexualMemeTrash]

On 3/15/2016 at 8:02 PM, ChillaKilla said:

"I'm not cis I'm normal!" <- BIG ONE

 

 

My ex said this one time when I explained to him what cisgender was. 

"Then it should just be gender because there's only 4 genders: guy, chick, t----y, and whatever the fuck doesn't have a dick or a snatch." 

I should've left him when I realized that he's a homophobe but he would've said that it wasn't a good enough reason.

[AsexualMemeTrash]

Another one I just remembered, found on Twitter, don't know if this was said yet. 

 

"I think cis is a faulty term." 

 

Guess what? As an oppressor, you don't get to decide what the people you oppress call you.

[fiѕh]

cis = oppressor?

 

Congratulations. You just said the most offensive thing in a thread about offensive things.

 

Crossed out 'cause I got a thing wrong.

[AsexualMemeTrash]

1 hour ago, sam#2 said:

cis = oppressor?

 

Congratulations. You just said the most offensive thing in a thread about offensive things.

 

I was referring to a tweet I saw and apparently that person was a homophobe or something and they said that cis was a faulty term and didn't see the point in using cis. My ex thought that it shouldn't exist either. 

[ChillaKilla]

2 hours ago, sam#2 said:

cis = oppressor?

 

Congratulations. You just said the most offensive thing in a thread about offensive things.

You must be new here. If people discussing their actual experiences with a group that historically has been responsible for a lot of misery, then this might be the wrong thread for you... Just a thought.

[fiѕh]

↑ I seriously just won't comment on that.

 

@AsexualMemeTrash I got you wrong so sorry for that. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

27 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

 

 

You must be new here. If people discussing their actual experiences with a group that historically has been responsible for a lot of misery, then this might be the wrong thread for you... Just a thought.

 

Let me ask a question. What would you call a person who generalises in a negative way about someone who is Trans?

 

Now then.. A  person of colour, who calls a white person something generally negative about the colour of his / her / their skin is still racist right?

 

So generalising about CIS people is in my opinion as transphobic as someone insulting and generalising about trans people.

 

My or Sam's opinions are only valid if he is trans?

 

Thats pretty bold, and insulting.

[ChillaKilla]

This is a thread about trans people's experiences with cis people. So yeah, if you're cis and trying to come in here with no background or context whatsoever and blindly criticize people here? No validity.

 

It's also funny you used a reference to racism because it actually works to my advantage in this argument. A person of color getting angry at white people has extremely different (and minimal) social consequences compared to systemic racism of white people against people of color. Individual racism hurts feelings. Systemic racism causes Jim Crow laws and the KKK. So, yeah. Us offending your feelings because "OMG ur mean to cis ppl" is nowhere near the scale of damage caused by bathroom bills, forced institutionalization, conversion therapy, societal rejection and ostracization, and general oppression faced by trans people at the hands of the cisgender majority.

 

If you don't like people complaining about cis people, why are you in a thread called "Annoying things cis people say"?

And if you try to start an "Annoying things trans people say" thread I will laugh. Go and see how well that turns out.

[ChillaKilla]

[double post]