Looking for a German speaker willing to do some reading and translation work for asexual history

[ithaca]

Hi all!

Today I personally learned something new. I thought that Kinsey with his group X was the first sexologist to acknowledge the existence of people with no interest in sex with anyone, back in 1948.

But! Someone on FB sent me a message and asked me if I knew of Hirschfeld (I didn't), who apparently wrote something about asexual people in....wait for it....the 19th century! 1896, I think! Something can be found in this thread on AVEN as well.

28-year-old Berlin sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld published a scheme in 1896 that measured the strength of an individual's sexual desire on two independent 10-point scales, A (homosexual) and B (heterosexual).[4] A heterosexual individual may be A0, B5; a homosexual individual may be A5, B0; An asexual would be A0, B0; and someone with an intense attraction to both sexes would be A9, B9.

The thing is, there doesn't seem to be a full translation of this text, and not a translation of the parts related to asexuality. Something can be seen here, where a pic explains his scale, but fails to mention the A=0; B=0 possibility.

This is why I'm looking for a German speaker with a lot of patience and some time to look into this publication: "Sappho und Sokrates", published in 1896. I hope it's the right text, at least

I know this may be quite a lot I'm asking for, but a translation of the relevant parts of Hirschfeld's work could be very relevant to our history!

I thank you all in advance, anyone who would like to but has no time, and anyone (fingers crossed) who may decide to start this project!

[Robin L]

I can ask in the German AVEN, if you want.

[ThaHoward]

I know some Germans I can ask.

And I have read many books and magazines in German so I could do it as a last"resort :p

[tommy92]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

[ThaHoward]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

That's good :) Tried to find it, but found mostly analysis' and articles about the pamphlet :/

But I found some archive of some sort.. I can tell you what I've found :)

[tommy92]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

That's good :) Tried to find it, but found mostly analysis' and articles about the pamphlet :/

Does anyone know how big it is? (I guess it isn't as big since it is a pamphlet) There is a site that offers ebooks and reprints of old books and they offer it...5€+0.36€ per page...It could get costly :/ *looks for the pagecount*

edit: 35 pages...that's bearable I guess :)

[tommy92]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

That's good :) Tried to find it, but found mostly analysis' and articles about the pamphlet :/

But I found some archive of some sort.. I can tell you what I've found :)

Have you edited that in later? I didn't see that before :P

Do tell^^ :)

[Guest]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

[bolding by me]

The bolded part is where I'd fail at... so I'm not volunteering. *sheepishly cheers tommy on* :redface:

[tommy92]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

[bolding by me]

The bolded part is where I'd fail at... so I'm not volunteering. *sheepishly cheers tommy on* :redface:

Thank you :)

I will do some research and if I am still unsuccessful to find it, I will buy it tomorrow^^

Hopefully they already digitalized it once...if not it can take up to 2 weeks till I get it...

[ithaca]

I would have a lot of patience also have some time and I'm a German speaker.

I guess I could give it a shot :)

...I would just have to find the book first D:

[bolding by me]

The bolded part is where I'd fail at... so I'm not volunteering. *sheepishly cheers tommy on* :redface:

Thank you :)

I will do some research and if I am still unsuccessful to find it, I will buy it tomorrow^^

Hopefully they already digitalized it once...if not it can take up to 2 weeks till I get it...

Maybe a library? I don't know, but that was my first idea for a paper that old.

Thanks for volunteering ^_^

[ithaca]

Oh, tommy, I just noticed you said you'd buy it. Please don't, I don't want anyone to spend money for this. If you can't find it, please let me know and I will look for a solution, ok?

[tommy92]

<...>

I will do some research and if I am still unsuccessful to find it, I will buy it tomorrow^^

Hopefully they already digitalized it once...if not it can take up to 2 weeks till I get it...

Maybe a library? I don't know, but that was my first idea for a paper that old.

Thanks for volunteering ^_^

Thanks to internet access I was able to look into my universities book database (I am talking about 1.8 million books ;) ) and it isn't there. It has a few books of Hirschfeld, but that isn't one of them (I am aware that he published the pamphlet under a pseudonym)

And I would say if that library doesn't have it, the smaller libraries in my immediate reach probably won't have it as well.

Also I wouldn't have a problem buying it, I am actually interested in reading what he has written in it^^

I haven't read one of his books but the titles of them alone suggest good things^^

But if you wish so, I could as well wait a little bit, maybe you are able to come up with a solution :)

Edit: Ok, the site had the option to make a Germany wide search in all databases that are collaborating in that search engine and it turns out that only one Library has that book...

[tommy92]

I tried myself to translate a little bit of text from another book from Magnus Hirschfeld. I am not sure, but I think that this book might have an official translation. Either way, I just wanted to try it out as I am motivated to translate stuff:

[...] homosexuality is fitting into the cycle of similar phenomenons in nature so perfectly, that the absence of it would mean that there is a gap, a "missing link".

[...]

To demand from an adult homosexual to suppress their urges forever means not more or less as it would mean to outlaw eating for hungry people, drinking for the thirsty, sleeping for the sleepy and it would mean at least as much as to outlaw heterosexuals (i.e. a man) having intercourse with with woman indefinitely.

It has been a century since we removed the chains from the mentally ill; But now there are unequally heavy chains on persons who are in full command of their mental faculties; that's how you turn humans into criminals and suicide victims, chasing them around dishonorably, helpless and stateless and all that – for their loves sake.

Indeed, it's not nature, it's man who is man's biggest enemy.

For reference:

Page1 (just the first sentence translated partially)

Page2 (everything except the first 1.5 lines)

I am hoping to get some feedback (I am looking at you, Mysticus :P ) but also looking at everyone regarding understandability or to to word it differently: Is what I have written understandable? Does it make sense or have I written complete nonsense?

Besides maybe one or two times back in school, I never translated something before^^

[ithaca]

I tried myself to translate a little bit of text from another book from Magnus Hirschfeld. I am not sure, but I think that this book might have an official translation. Either way, I just wanted to try it out as I am motivated to translate stuff:

[...] homosexuality is fitting into the cycle of similar phenomenons in nature so perfectly, that the absence of it would mean that there is a gap, a "missing link".

[...]

To demand from an adult homosexual to suppress their urges forever means not more or less as it would mean to outlaw eating for hungry people, drinking for the thirsty, sleeping for the sleepy and it would mean at least as much as to outlaw heterosexuals (i.e. a man) having intercourse with with woman indefinitely.

It has been a century since we removed the chains from the mentally ill; But now there are unequally heavy chains on persons who are in full command of their mental faculties; that's how you turn humans into criminals and suicide victims, chasing them around dishonorably, helpless and stateless and all that – for their loves sake.

Indeed, it's not nature, it's man who is man's biggest enemy.

For reference:

Page1 (just the first sentence translated partially)

Page2 (everything except the first 1.5 lines)

I am hoping to get some feedback (I am looking at you, Mysticus :P ) but also looking at everyone regarding understandability or to to word it differently: Is what I have written understandable? Does it make sense or have I written complete nonsense?

Besides maybe one or two times back in school, I never translated something before^^

Awesome! I can't read German, but the English version was really easy to understand to me, considering the original was written in the 19th century or early XX century and all :)

[tommy92]

(...)

Awesome! I can't read German, but the English version was really easy to understand to me, considering the original was written in the 19th century or early XX century and all :)

Good to hear. That book was published in 1906 and basically is about intersex people. It is just the last chapter (well chapter is very loosely used here...we are talking about 1.5 pages^^) that deals with homosexuality^^ But I found the things he said very impressive for the times (but maybe it isn't impressive, I just have the impression that it is^^)

[ithaca]

(...)

Awesome! I can't read German, but the English version was really easy to understand to me, considering the original was written in the 19th century or early XX century and all :)

Good to hear. That book was published in 1906 and basically is about intersex people. It is just the last chapter (well chapter is very loosely used here...we are talking about 1.5 pages^^) that deals with homosexuality^^ But I found the things he said very impressive for the times (but maybe it isn't impressive, I just have the impression that it is^^)

I've heard that he discusses intersex people too, which is awesome! If he's talking of "the third sex" he may actually be talking of gay people too, since it seems that he thought that there were men (straight), women and then the "third sex" ("inversed men" or homosexual men). That's just by quickly reading online though, so I don't know.

I'm going to PM you with a link to some other files!

[tommy92]

(...)

Awesome! I can't read German, but the English version was really easy to understand to me, considering the original was written in the 19th century or early XX century and all :)

Good to hear. That book was published in 1906 and basically is about intersex people. It is just the last chapter (well chapter is very loosely used here...we are talking about 1.5 pages^^) that deals with homosexuality^^ But I found the things he said very impressive for the times (but maybe it isn't impressive, I just have the impression that it is^^)

I've heard that he discusses intersex people too, which is awesome! If he's talking of "the third sex" he may actually be talking of gay people too, since it seems that he thought that there were men (straight), women and then the "third sex" ("inversed men" or homosexual men). That's just by quickly reading online though, so I don't know.

I'm going to PM you with a link to some other files!

Yes, that could be the case, though that book was mainly about intersex^^

Alright, I'm looking forward to it :D

[Bruno]

I can speak German, but the book doesn't seem to be easily available. Most copies were probably destroyed between 1933 and 1945.

[tommy92]

I speak German, but the book doesn't seem to be easily available.

I already have everything under control :D I got the book and translated the interesting parts.

I will open a topic about it very soon and would be more than glad if you would provide me some feedback then :) (I'll post the original and translation)

[Bruno]

How did you manage to get it? A university library?

[tommy92]

How did you manage to get it? A university library?

There was only one place in Germany where I could find it and that was the Bavarian State Library^^ and fortunately they offered digitization of books. So I ordered it as a digitization and also I additionally ordered it as a reprint for my private "library" because the cost wasn't significantly higher^^

[Bruno]

Cool - I think I might order it as well.

[tommy92]

Cool - I think I might order it as well.

If you haven't ordered/found it already, my digitization request made it possible that it can now be bought on Amazon (co.uk link for you ;) )

ISBN: 3-226-01388-2