Got a problem

[Quill Pen Gentleman]

So I've been keeping this secret for a good number of years, and I decided that I really need to talk to someone about it.

I'm 21, ever since I was 11 I've always liked older men. It seemed normal to me. It was never really an attraction, though. It was just a liking.

Recently, I've been in an open relationship with an older man. The one thing is, I'm not attracted to him. I like it when he touches me, it feels good and I get "turned on" (in an asexual way). I keep thinking this is all very strange because he's older.

So, this morning another older man (not as old, I'd say this other guy is probably 40) sits next to me on the bus and I swear he was trying to touch my leg. I wanted him to touch me. I don't want all older men to touch me, most of them I either don't care about or they are just creepy, but there are some older men that I wouldn't mind touching me. Okay, fine, I like older men touching me. But I'm not attracted to them so what does that mean? Yesterday, I received a facebook message stating that this girl wanted to go to coffee with me. I immediately assumed she was asking me out and I wanted to go out with her. Then I realized that I'd be "dating" three people at the same time if I were to go along with the feelings of these three people. The younger (40-year-old) guy has a family, and I'm pretty sure the girl has a girlfriend.

Where am I going with all this? I want to know if I have relationship issues. Whether with myself or with others. Or am I polyamorous? I keep on feeling that I have issues, like something's wrong with me. It's not that I want to date these people, I just like the attention. Is that bad? Am I selfish?

[Zerο]

Wait, is the 40 year old guy cheating on his significant other then?

[qwair]

First thing's first. The old person this morning in the bus is not a real date thing, in fact, you said he never even touched you, just that you wanted him to. Maybe he wanted to, maybe he didn't and it all happened in your thoughts, but the point is, nothing really happened, did it?

Going out to coffee with the girl might be a date, then again it might not be. It really depends on how you two defined it. If you go out on a date with her, then yes, you would be dating two people at once. I thought you said your relationship with old guy #1 is an open relationship, so as long as you're within the bounds of your relationship, you're not doing anything wrong.

Where am I going with all this? I want to know if I have relationship issues. Whether with myself or with others. Or am I polyamorous? I keep on feeling that I have issues, like something's wrong with me. It's not that I want to date these people, I just like the attention. Is that bad? Am I selfish?

So, if I understand you correctly, you go out on dates because you like the attention, and sometimes because you have this 'fetish' for old guys, and not necessarily because you'd like to have a romantic relationship with these people. There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you tell them why you're doing what you're doing and you're being honest with them, it isn't selfish either. In my opinion it only starts being wrong if you mislead them or lie to them.

I don't see any real issue in what you've told so far. What are you afraid of? What are those issues you described? What do you think is wrong with what happened or might happen? In an ideal world, what would happen/would have happened differently?

[Quill Pen Gentleman]

@ Zero: I don't even know if the 40-year-old is married or not. I assume he is. I mean, I've seen he's got at least three kids. In that case, we've got a problem (assuming that he wants me as much as I think he does).

@ qwair: No, he didn't do anything. Well...okay that's not entirely true. We were sitting in the back of the bus and there was a seat next open next to him so he could sit on it if he wanted to but he sat SUPER close to me. I mean, close enough to where his arm was overlapping mine. I forgot to add that in before.

Is it a fetish, though? I'm curious. Yes, you understand me correctly. Well, I don't go out on dates it's more like letting people touch me in "romantic" or sensual ways.

I'm afraid of how I judge myself. People where I live make fun of my situation more than they make fun of gay people. I've kind've gotten over what people think of me, but I'm also judging myself harshly for it. It's just not what the average person does and it makes me feel alienated a little bit. Those issues I was talking about might be in the form that I'm desperate or that I lower my standards or that I'm lonely. That or I have "daddy issues". But then again, I don't find myself going after everyone that expresses interest in me.

What I think is wrong is that I don't like people in the conventional way. I know it sounds silly, but almost everything I do lacks convention. I just feel emberassed because I prefer older men to a "hot" guy my own age. I've never thought men my age were attractive. Aesthetically pleasing, at the most but other than that I'm not all that crazy about them. In an ideal world, I'd be aromantic and not give a shit about who touched me or who gave me sensual pleasure. In an ideal world I'd be Sherlock Holmes. But this ain't an ideal world.

[Philip027]

I've always gotten along better with people older than me when I was a kid, mainly because I dislike dealing with immature people, and as a kid I viewed most of my peers that way. That's alleviated somewhat as I've gotten older, because the range of people younger than me has increased, and some people that are younger than me are technically still adults nowadays and thus relateable to me.

For me though that hasn't necessarily translated to actively pursuing relationships with older people (I tend not to pursue relationships, period), although it is worth noting that my first sorta-maybe-relationship-thing was with someone far older than I was; I was 17 at the time and she was nearly twice my age.

Just wanted to say that I could relate in at least some way.

[qwair]

I've kind've gotten over what people think of me, but I'm also judging myself harshly for it. It's just not what the average person does and it makes me feel alienated a little bit. Those issues I was talking about might be in the form that I'm desperate or that I lower my standards or that I'm lonely. That or I have "daddy issues". But then again, I don't find myself going after everyone that expresses interest in me.

I'm so sorry to hear that you're judging yourself and not accepting your own feelings because you're don't feel like an average person. You're not an average person and that's wonderful! I don't think you're doing anything immoral or self-destructive, and I don't think you deserve any judgement for it, from other people and especially not from yourself.

There's nothing wrong about wanting to let people touch you in sensual/romantic ways. There's nothing wrong or embarrassing about your attraction to older men (whether or not you call it a fetish, it doesn't really matter). In fact, many older men, including older asexual men, want to experience sensual touch with younger women, and that seems socially accepted and pretty conventional, for some reason.

What I think is wrong is that I don't like people in the conventional way. I know it sounds silly, but almost everything I do lacks convention. I just feel emberassed because I prefer older men to a "hot" guy my own age. I've never thought men my age were attractive. Aesthetically pleasing, at the most but other than that I'm not all that crazy about them. In an ideal world, I'd be aromantic and not give a shit about who touched me or who gave me sensual pleasure. In an ideal world I'd be Sherlock Holmes. But this ain't an ideal world.

I sympathize with your frustration. I understand that you'd want your situation to be simpler, to either suddenly turn completely straight or suddenly turn completely aromantic and without sensual wants at all. I think you know this is not likely to happen, and that you're probably going to stay unconventional, somewhere in the middle.

The good news is that many people on and off AVEN (myself included) have dealt with those feelings of being 'not normal', and currently lead happy lives and have found labels, relationship models and partners that work for them and their little oddities :D . I'm positive that you can do it too! I know it's much better said than done, but I feel you need to embrace your unconventionality, accept yourself and your desires as uncommon as you think they may be, and start imagining an ideal world in which you are happy as you are.

Other than that, all I can offer is a virtual hug

[Quill Pen Gentleman]

I judge myself harshly a good number of times. More often than not, actually. A lot of times, I give myself strict standards and I find that I fall out of these standards a lot. For a long time, I thought that liking older men was just a phase that I'd grow out of, that I was being immature and that one day I'd just be that Holmes type person who just cares about their work (in my case, it would be writing). The things I want to do with other people, sensual things, gets in the way though.

Where I live, it's unconventional for either party to want it. Whether you're an older man wanting a younger female or vice versa.

I'm hoping that I'll grow out of it. I'm only 21. I've also noticed that this usually happens when I'm under high stress, so maybe older men are able to release the tension that I have a lot of times.

Thanks for the hug. :)

So, I'm feeling that I think I prefer the younger guy more. You know, the guy that has a family. In my opinion, he's more aesthetically pleasing and closer to my age. Let's just say hypothetically that he likes me. I kind've like him. What if he decided that he wanted to move things along and fool around with me? What should I do if he does that? Because the way he was sitting next to me on the bus, letting his arm overlap mine and such, and for some reason I have a feeling (and I'm usually right) that he likes me.

[qwair]

So, I'm feeling that I think I prefer the younger guy more. You know, the guy that has a family. In my opinion, he's more aesthetically pleasing and closer to my age. Let's just say hypothetically that he likes me. I kind've like him. What if he decided that he wanted to move things along and fool around with me? What should I do if he does that? Because the way he was sitting next to me on the bus, letting his arm overlap mine and such, and for some reason I have a feeling (and I'm usually right) that he likes me.

Well... Hypothetically, theoretically and schematically it should work like this:

1. You find out if he's available (single, divorced or open relationship, if he claims to be in an open relationship ask to hear it also from the wife/girlfriend). If unavailable, walk away. You don't need more guilt and self-judgement in your life.

2. You meet the guy for a couple of dates, during which you tell him what you're interested in right now and what you're never going to want. Possibly also what you could want in in the future. You don't have to mention asexuality by name, but do assume most people will interpret sensual touch as sexual sometimes and you do have to make that clear.

3. During dates, he tells you same, if he doesn't ask him until you're satisfied that you understand what he wants from you

4. You find out if 2 & 3 are compatible, as long as they are, keep seeing him

5. Re-negotiating 2 & 3 is okay. Don't do anything you didn't talk about and don't let him get away with doing anything you didn't specifically agree to. Also, pressing you repeatedly to agree to things you don't want to do is not okay.

Now this is how it's supposed to work in theory . In practice, people lie, miscommunicate, are ashamed of their wants, feel low self esteem that makes them agree to things they don't really want, and a ton of other problems and complications, but yeah this is the safest route that I know. Honestly, my intuition says there isn't a real chance of it progressing with that guy past 1, not to mention 2, but I can't really know that for sure.

I judge myself harshly a good number of times. More often than not, actually. A lot of times, I give myself strict standards and I find that I fall out of these standards a lot. For a long time, I thought that liking older men was just a phase that I'd grow out of, that I was being immature and that one day I'd just be that Holmes type person who just cares about their work (in my case, it would be writing). The things I want to do with other people, sensual things, gets in the way though.

Judging yourself harshly is not a very good habit, especially for an aspiring writer. Too much judgement too soon can really paralyse someone into complete lack of creativity. Let your mind stay in that judgement free area, nothing that only happens in your mind can ever be really bad :).

You might grow out of your sensual wants, and then again, you might not, you don't really have any way to know that yet, but you're right, you are young and you have a lot of time to figure things out for yourself. What I do think is that waiting around for those wants to go away while being frustrated isn't really helping you in dealing with them. Who knows, maybe if you accept yourself as you are and experience those sensual desires without judgement and even without necessarily acting on them they might lead you to thoughts that might even help your writing, instead of getting in the way :) .

[Quill Pen Gentleman]

Yeah, I had a feeling that I wouldn't be able to get with him. Even if he is interested. Someone else on the bus told me that he's Pentecostal. Cheating on your partner is looked down even in the secular world, I couldn't imagine what it would be looked at in the Christian world.

I never thought of my feelings being fuel for my writing. That's a refreshing idea, thanks.