Sexual Compromise & Support

[Tarfeather]

The question is, is it worth having sex to have a partner? Cause, I am not honestly sure anymore. At first it was fine, gradually it became more and more stressful and now... I just don't know if it's something I can actually do at all. No matter how awesome a partner I might have. The idea of someone wanting that from me is a little stressful.

... it's not like you can get in a relationship, fall in love and then in a year or so decide if you want sex on the table or not. You have to decide that before the relationship ever starts. Whether that be a new relationship, or old one. Else, it's not really fair to the partner. So, the point is not moot, given it's something i have to decide before I have a partner.

Well, sex could be "on the table", and yet you could still decide you don't want to have it, and stick to that decision for the rest of the relationship. It being an option, doesn't obligate you to do anything. If you know right now you don't ever want to have sex again, of course it's fair to say so upfront. However, if you simply think that might be the case, it's also okay to say that upfront and then never ending up agreeing to having sex. Personally, I'm more okay with my partner considering sex an option, and continuously deciding that she doesn't want it, than with her deciding right now that it'd never be an option. Sure, with the former, there is more potential for disappointment and false hope, however with the latter it'd give me a distinct feeling that my partner doesn't care about my desires, and I honestly prefer the disappointment to that.

And, I am being asked to be someone's partner again. So. Though, there are plenty of reasons not to, beyond that. But, it is something I have to give him a definitive answer on soon, or that would not be being fair either.

It sounds to me like you're being asked to have sex with him again. As he could conceivably realize that sex is a big problem for you, and that if he wants your relationship to work, he can abstain from it. But he's not offering that. It's not about being partners, it's about sex.

[Sally]

... it's not like you can get in a relationship, fall in love and then in a year or so decide if you want sex on the table or not. You have to decide that before the relationship ever starts.

Not true at all. A relationship is not a prison, where there's no hope of anything changing. It is an environment which is by definition affected by all sorts of factors, internal and external. If you find yourself feeling very differently from how you felt when you got into the relationship, you have the right -- and the duty to yourself -- to recognize that difference and take it into account. The relationship is for you and your partner, you are not for the relationship.

[BluePanda]

Hey Guys,

It's been great reading this thread and seeing how many others there are struggling with their own situations, but still being able to help each other out! I'm hoping to get some advice so if you could help that would be highly appreciated :)

POSSIBLE TMI BELOW

So I'm the sexual (quite a low sex drive in comparison to most) in an 8- month long relationship with an asexual. Going into the relationship, it was my first time with another woman, and at first the sex was reaaally frequent, but always initiated by my partner, who seemed very into it, and I was, if you like, sexually awakened after never really feeling it before. However, any activity quickly died off after the first month, and she came out to me as asexual; this was to the extent where we now barely make out (if we do it's very short- lived as she gets aroused quickly but does not actually want to go through with having sex).

Although I completely do not begrudge my partner for being asexual, as has been said before, none of us can help our orientation, I frequently fear that my sexual frustration is seeping into other areas of the relationship. For example she is frequently very flirty and will tease me about the possibility of sex, or will grope me etc, but it's always fleeting and she isnt comfortable with it being reciprocated. All said, that's fine if she wishes to be semi- sexual whenever she feels it, but to me, I feel like I'm having to be receptive whenever she wants me to be (I have turned down her semi- advances in the past because I feel kind of irrationally resentful about not being desired, but that is something I'm trying to work past). If I say I'm not in the mood to be teased sexually, she gets upset because I think she (maybe?) expects sexuals to constantly be up for it? But at the same time, I am left unfulfilled when she inevitably backs away after touching me for a couple of minutes.

As a result I feel like the only options I have are to say 1) 'no I want to just not have any sexual touching at all if it won't EVER lead anywhere', or 2) 'I may need a compromise (which I'm reluctant to do, I don't really want to make her do anything she isn't 100% into), or 3) break up (again, reluctant, I really, really love my partner, she's my best friend and I can see us being together wayy into the future)

So really I guess I'm just wondering if anyone can advise on -decreasing resentment, what to do if I feel led on all the time, any general help/ insights into asexuality that you feel I'll benefit from knowing, ie if I need to be more understanding, etc.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your responses :D Peace out <3

[Avistew]

Relationships evolve and adapt. You don't want to hide your orientation when a relationship starts, but you're not contractually obligated to stick to a sex schedule or something. Especially for something like sex, which requires you to be in the mood or it can be very damaging emotionally. Anyone who holds it against you that you "changed your mind" about having sex because you have a change in libido, or because the relationship has evolved, is someone you shouldn't trust enough to have sex with in the first place, in my opinion.

As for your ex, Serran, he just doesn't respect you. He's planned everything to have you handy for sex when he feels like it and not have to interact with you at all the rest of the time. It's like he want a sex robot or something. That would be a pretty terrible situation for everyone, but asking that of someone you know to be asexual is just a super dick move.

And 3 times a week... I'm sexual and I wouldn't be fine with that much. I can't imagine how draining that would be for you, and bad for your self-esteem to be used that way. Give him a clear "no" and move on.

For future relationships, you can be clear that you're asexual and you don't promise sex ever, but you may have it sometimes, or not. You don't know how you'll feel, and people need to be okay with that to date you. Pressuring you into doing it is just not okay. You deserve to be treated right.

[Tarfeather]

Anyone who holds it against you that you "changed your mind" about having sex because you have a change in libido, or because the relationship has evolved, is someone you shouldn't trust enough to have sex with in the first place, in my opinion.

I agree that you can't hold it against someone, but you can't expect a fairly fundamental change in a relationship to go unremarked, or that your partner will just be okay with it. It would be like deciding never to talk to them after the first month and wondering why they were upset.

Yeah, that made no sense to me. We generally don't hold things "against" a partner, they're family after all, not business partners. But we do get hurt, and we can get bitter and angry and everything, and while that's not "good", it'd also not be natural not to experience these reactions.

[BluePanda]

Sorry., not sure whether the above posts were responding to mine or earlier ones XD

But on the topic of fundamental relationship change-- yes I see where Avistew is coming from in terms of not being contractually obliged to have sex, obviously no one should feel obligated to do something they don't want to.

The only thing that I think some aces (note not meaning to make a generalisation, just in my experience) may have issues with is seeing it from a sexual's perspective- to me, suddenly having someone you lost your virginity to say they actually were never attracted to you and no longer wants sex is a pretty hard blow, even though that's no fault of the asexual. I think at first it just feels a little like the rug has been pulled from out of your feet.

Personally, I don't think its right to resent people having a change in libido, but it can certainly come as a shock, and perhaps take some time to adapt to, for the sexual.

[Guest]

... it's not like you can get in a relationship, fall in love and then in a year or so decide if you want sex on the table or not. You have to decide that before the relationship ever starts.

Not true at all. A relationship is not a prison, where there's no hope of anything changing. It is an environment which is by definition affected by all sorts of factors, internal and external. If you find yourself feeling very differently from how you felt when you got into the relationship, you have the right -- and the duty to yourself -- to recognize that difference and take it into account. The relationship is for you and your partner, you are not for the relationship.

That is true. But, I would prefer to have some idea how I will feel before I start to do anything romantic with anyone again. And have all that out in the open at the start, to avoid potential drama.

I interpreted Serran to be saying that offering a potential partner the deal of 'I'm only even going to consider having sex with you after a year, and no guarantees even then', is unlikely to be a runner for most people.

Well, I was more saying... I can't just go into a relationship and a year later be like "Ya know, I really can't do sex and I kinda thought that might be the case before we started, but now I know it is". I don't think that'd be fair. I could say "I have no idea how I really feel about sex, I am kinda hesitant to say I can do it at all". But, I think being more stable and knowing more how I feel about it might be better before I try anything with anyone that might be interested in it. That way both can go in with as much knowledge as possible.

The question is, is it worth having sex to have a partner? Cause, I am not honestly sure anymore. At first it was fine, gradually it became more and more stressful and now... I just don't know if it's something I can actually do at all. No matter how awesome a partner I might have. The idea of someone wanting that from me is a little stressful.

... it's not like you can get in a relationship, fall in love and then in a year or so decide if you want sex on the table or not. You have to decide that before the relationship ever starts. Whether that be a new relationship, or old one. Else, it's not really fair to the partner. So, the point is not moot, given it's something i have to decide before I have a partner.

Well, sex could be "on the table", and yet you could still decide you don't want to have it, and stick to that decision for the rest of the relationship.

Mmm, but if I know it's very unlikely, it seems like setting the person up for disappointment to not just say "You know, I don't feel like I can have sex. So, you shouldn't hold out hope that's going to happen with us". Though, honestly, if I decide compromise is not something I can do... I will probably avoid people with sexual desires. Because, the guilt and feeling of "not enough" just knowing someone wants that of you is something I also am not sure I want to deal with again.

[Autumn Season]

BluePanda, could you tell your partner to take a break or keep it it low with the sexual actions? You could tell her that you need time to figure out how you feel about not having sex, before you do something sexual with her again. Or that she confuses you with her advances. And that you would like to get to know her again from the beginning, while keeping in mind that sex is not on the table. That starting from the beginning is difficult though when she is being so intimate.

I hope this made sense.

Oh, and before that, the two of you might need to have a conversation about how being sexual (and having sex) with her is a big deal to you. Talk, maybe while taking breaks, until she doesn't brush off your feelings anymore. At the same time try not to make your words sound as if you were blaming her. Because the last thing you need is more conflict.

Lots of luck and success!

[Guest]

Hey Guys,

It's been great reading this thread and seeing how many others there are struggling with their own situations, but still being able to help each other out! I'm hoping to get some advice so if you could help that would be highly appreciated :)

POSSIBLE TMI BELOW

So I'm the sexual (quite a low sex drive in comparison to most) in an 8- month long relationship with an asexual. Going into the relationship, it was my first time with another woman, and at first the sex was reaaally frequent, but always initiated by my partner, who seemed very into it, and I was, if you like, sexually awakened after never really feeling it before. However, any activity quickly died off after the first month, and she came out to me as asexual; this was to the extent where we now barely make out (if we do it's very short- lived as she gets aroused quickly but does not actually want to go through with having sex).

Although I completely do not begrudge my partner for being asexual, as has been said before, none of us can help our orientation, I frequently fear that my sexual frustration is seeping into other areas of the relationship. For example she is frequently very flirty and will tease me about the possibility of sex, or will grope me etc, but it's always fleeting and she isnt comfortable with it being reciprocated. All said, that's fine if she wishes to be semi- sexual whenever she feels it, but to me, I feel like I'm having to be receptive whenever she wants me to be (I have turned down her semi- advances in the past because I feel kind of irrationally resentful about not being desired, but that is something I'm trying to work past). If I say I'm not in the mood to be teased sexually, she gets upset because I think she (maybe?) expects sexuals to constantly be up for it? But at the same time, I am left unfulfilled when she inevitably backs away after touching me for a couple of minutes.

As a result I feel like the only options I have are to say 1) 'no I want to just not have any sexual touching at all if it won't EVER lead anywhere', or 2) 'I may need a compromise (which I'm reluctant to do, I don't really want to make her do anything she isn't 100% into), or 3) break up (again, reluctant, I really, really love my partner, she's my best friend and I can see us being together wayy into the future)

So really I guess I'm just wondering if anyone can advise on -decreasing resentment, what to do if I feel led on all the time, any general help/ insights into asexuality that you feel I'll benefit from knowing, ie if I need to be more understanding, etc.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your responses :D Peace out <3

Could you explain to her that when she teases you, rather than being fun, it's frustrating due to the lack of follow through? Explain you're OK with her not wanting sex, but the teasing is something that is making the matter worse, rather than better. It's fine putting the boundary that you don't want to be touched like that if it doesn't lead anywhere. You get to decide how she touches you, it's your body.

And if you feel you need sex, you can discuss the compromise idea, you don't have to force her or pressure to discuss it.

[Guest]

Well... I told him I didn't think I could decide to move back in with him in the time table he gave me (25 days) because I didn't feel like enough would be different to make it work. And I wasn't sure if I could meet his sexual needs, even if he reduced them.

And... he did not take it well, at all.

[10:22:21 PM] "Adult Onset Asexuality".

[10:22:35 PM] My man got fat.. I dont want to fuck anymore"/ You rinternet labes pissed me off..

[10:30:10 PM] (Redacted) sO YEA.. F*** you.

[10:30:39 PM] (Redacted) You would be F****NG LUCKY if I took you back..

Etc, etc...

Soo, yeah. So much for a civil break up. :p

[nanogretchen4]

Well, Serran, I just don't see how you could resist charm like that.

[Tarfeather]

Well... I told him I didn't think I could decide to move back in with him in the time table he gave me (25 days) because I didn't feel like enough would be different to make it work. And I wasn't sure if I could meet his sexual needs, even if he reduced them.

And... he did not take it well, at all.

[10:22:21 PM] "Adult Onset Asexuality".

[10:22:35 PM] My man got fat.. I dont want to fuck anymore"/ You rinternet labes pissed me off..

[10:30:10 PM] (Redacted) sO YEA.. F*** you.

[10:30:39 PM] (Redacted) You would be F****NG LUCKY if I took you back..

Etc, etc...

Soo, yeah. So much for a civil break up. :P

Obviously he's just being very kind and trying to make himself seem like an asshole so you can get over him. *nod*

[Guest]

Well... I told him I didn't think I could decide to move back in with him in the time table he gave me (25 days) because I didn't feel like enough would be different to make it work. And I wasn't sure if I could meet his sexual needs, even if he reduced them.

And... he did not take it well, at all.

[10:22:21 PM] "Adult Onset Asexuality".

[10:22:35 PM] My man got fat.. I dont want to fuck anymore"/ You rinternet labes pissed me off..

[10:30:10 PM] (Redacted) sO YEA.. F*** you.

[10:30:39 PM] (Redacted) You would be F****NG LUCKY if I took you back..

Etc, etc...

Soo, yeah. So much for a civil break up. :P

Obviously he's just being very kind and trying to make himself seem like an asshole so you can get over him. *nod*

That's being very generous.

[Philip027]

Well... I told him I didn't think I could decide to move back in with him in the time table he gave me (25 days) because I didn't feel like enough would be different to make it work. And I wasn't sure if I could meet his sexual needs, even if he reduced them.

And... he did not take it well, at all.

[10:22:21 PM] "Adult Onset Asexuality".

[10:22:35 PM] My man got fat.. I dont want to fuck anymore"/ You rinternet labes pissed me off..

[10:30:10 PM] (Redacted) sO YEA.. F*** you.

[10:30:39 PM] (Redacted) You would be F****NG LUCKY if I took you back..

Etc, etc...

Soo, yeah. So much for a civil break up. :P

douuuuuuuche

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I think :/

[SoyCaptain]

@BluePanda (I'm not sure how to tag people, or even if you can, sorry!), your partner sounds a lot like mine. He's ace, but he enjoys making out and teasing. We ended up having to set limits on what is and isn't okay in regards to teasing so that I don't end up feeling sexually frustrated. There are certain areas he can touch/things he can do if he only wants to make out, and then he can go further than that if he knows he's comfortable with being more sexual at that time. This might be a talk to have with your partner, because it's definitely a little unfair for a partner to do things that they know triggers sexual desire and know they don't want to follow through with more intimacy.

[Avistew]

He does sound like a keeper. Good riddance!

As for the earlier discussion, I'm not saying I'd be happy about it if my partner never wanted to have sex with me, ever again, but it's always a possibility, at any time. Telling someone they have to keep having sex with you because they used to is just not okay. If they don't want to, then they don't want to. If that's enough to make you decide you want to end the relationship, then go ahead and end it, it's your call and only you know how important sex is to you. But sex isn't something you agree to at the beginning of a relationship and have to do on a specific schedule. It's an activity that happens, every single time it happens, because everyone involves happens to feel like it at the time. Planning it isn't reasonable, nor is saying it's "owed" to you.

I never meant to say that if someone will never have sex with you again, you should be happy about it. You feelings will be whatever they are. But the sex was never owed to you and just because you took it for granted didn't change the fact that at any time, any partner (asexual or not) could decide they don't want to have sex, and maybe they'll never feel like it ever again. You can't control people. Even if you pair up with someone who has the exact same libido and sexual orientation as you, it could change at any point for a variety of reasons, and it usually does in long-term relationships, because relationships evolve constantly.

[Tarfeather]

As for the earlier discussion, I'm not saying I'd be happy about it if my partner never wanted to have sex with me, ever again, but it's always a possibility, at any time. Telling someone they have to keep having sex with you because they used to is just not okay. If they don't want to, then they don't want to. If that's enough to make you decide you want to end the relationship, then go ahead and end it, it's your call and only you know how important sex is to you. But sex isn't something you agree to at the beginning of a relationship and have to do on a specific schedule. It's an activity that happens, every single time it happens, because everyone involves happens to feel like it at the time. Planning it isn't reasonable, nor is saying it's "owed" to you.

There's nothing wrong with having sex for the sake of your partner, and there's nothing wrong with setting a schedule for this. Someone here, maybe it was Serran, said that a schedule is preferable because then at least you don't have to worry about sex outside of the specific dates.

[Notte stellata]

I think what Avistew meant was you shouldn't be like "today is a sex day according to our schedule, so you're obligated to have sex with me no matter what." Even if you agreed on a schedule, it's still okay to refuse to have sex on any given day.

[Tarfeather]

I think what Avistew meant was you shouldn't be like "today is a sex day according to our schedule, so you're obligated to have sex with me no matter what." Even if you agreed on a schedule, it's still okay to refuse to have sex on any given day.

Right. Now that I re-read it, that's the actual issue.

"Telling someone they have to keep having sex with you because they used to is just not okay."

That's nonsensical. Nobody should have the control in a relationship to be able to tell their partner they HAVE to do something, anyway. You can say "If there's no sex, I'm out", which is fine. You can say "If there's no sex, I'll be really really hurt", which is fine. But you simply can't say "You have to have sex with me", unless you have an unhealthy amount of control over your partner to begin with, in which case THAT is the real problem that needs to be resolved.

[Autumn Season]

While partners are hopefully more accepting, I have been told by various people that I have to have sex in a romantic relationship. (Also that I have to be in a romantic relationship.) Unless I am fine with being a mean person. These are just words, but they do add a lot of pressure.

Before somebody jumps to conclusions: I have absolutely no intentions of making my partner miserable. If I end up in a relationship with a sexual person, they will know from the beginning about my orientation and can make their own decisions based on that.

[Tarfeather]

Except, short of leaving, that's exactly what asexuals can do with sexuals. They can say they HAVE to have no sex.

No no no no no. It's our moral values that tell us you can't have sex if there's nobody willing to have sex with you, because you can't violate the freedom of others. This has nothing to do with relationship configuration. It's the same as why you can't stab your partner with a knife.

Or do you mean, your partner can tell you not to have sex with anybody else? Because, you know, they can't. You can have sex with whoever you like, and if they don't like it, it's their responsibility to end the relationship. I don't subscribe to the notion that cheating is "morally bad", at least not any more than lying is in general, I only think it's a good way to ruin your relationship.

While partners are hopefully more accepting, I have been told by various people that I have to have sex in a romantic relationship. (Also that I have to be in a romantic relationship.) Unless I am fine with being a mean person. These are just words, but they do add a lot of pressure.

Yeah, but TBH I think that's for you to deal with. People are entitled to have opinions. Religious people are allowed to think that homosexuality is a sin and critizise someone for it. It's your job to grow a thicker skin and not take these people seriously. It's not their job to stop having an opinion about you so that you can feel "free" to choose what you want to do.

[Tarfeather]

You seem to be opening up rape as a legitimate moral choice, Tar, which I find very worrying.

Uh, yeah, obviously. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't. I understand that people can have individual moral frameworks that differ from my own. And yes, I do judge these frameworks, and I do think that any moral framework where rape is okay, or where hurting animals is okay, is messed up. But that doesn't mean I don't understand someone, even a society, could hold such a moral framework.

[Autumn Season]

It's not their job to stop having an opinion about you so that you can feel "free" to choose what you want to do.

Of course not.

[Tarfeather]

If that's your argument, your original point that nobody can violate the freedom of others doesn't stand. They can, they just choose not to.

Did I say that? I think I said in a healthy relationship they can't tell anyone to do something they don't want to do. Once coercion enters into it, that obvioulsy isn't the case anymore, but neither is it a healthy relationship at that point.

But my original point still stands, with an amendment involving countenancing vile, illegal assault:

Short of leaving or rape, asexuals can say their sexual partners HAVE to have no sex.

Since asexuals' choices don't involve ending the relationship or committing a serious criminal offence, the power imbalance is still there.

I don't understand. The asexual doesn't tell their partner anything. They simply don't agree to have sex. The asexual doesn't place any restrictions on the sexual, other than the restrictions that apply anyway, namely that you can't have sex with someone who doesn't want to. Meanwhile, expecting the asexual to have sex, would be demanding something from them that normally they wouldn't have to give.

[nanogretchen4]

The problem with this discussion is that people keep comparing withholding sex to rape. I'm assuming there are no rapists here, so why even go there? There is a much closer equivalency between cutting off sex longterm and having an affair. Both are violations of the terms of traditional marriage. Both are likely relationship enders.

Another point that should be considered is that the sexual partner has more to gain by ending the relationship. They have a far wider pool of potentially compatible people to date. It's very unlikely that their next partner will be asexual. The asexual partner, if they don't prefer remaining single to compromise, will almost certainly have the same problem in their next relationship.

Taking into account these two factors, I disagree that the balance of power favors the asexual partner.

[Tarfeather]

Another point that should be considered is that the sexual partner has more to gain by ending the relationship. They have a far wider pool of potentially compatible people to date.

I have tears in my eyes right now from laughter!

[HeidiUK]

I said the only way a sexual partner will have sex with an asexual partner is if they rape them. That's completely different.

I take massive objection to this statement. As an ace, depending on the relationship I'm in, there would be many circumstances where I would have sex willingly. I see sex like golf. I have never played golf, gold doesn't interest me. But golf doesn't turn me off. If my partner wanted to sometimes play golf, I'd go along because hey he/she has fun so why not?

[Tarfeather]

I said the only way a sexual partner will have sex with an asexual partner is if they rape them. That's completely different.

I take massive objection to this statement. As an ace, depending on the relationship I'm in, there would be many circumstances where I would have sex willingly. I see sex like golf. I have never played golf, gold doesn't interest me. But golf doesn't turn me off. If my partner wanted to sometimes play golf, I'd go along because hey he/she has fun so why not?

Uhh.. he quoted himself poorly. What he actually said earlier is that the only way to make the other have sex even when they don't want to is rape. Which is true by definition.

[Sally]

There is no power differential. The asexual can please their sexual partner by forcing themselves to have sex that they don't want. The sexual can please their asexual partner by refraining from the sex that they do want. Neither effort to please works well; both partners are compromising.

[Sally]

A really inappropriate analogy. Sexuals don't "sometimes" want to have sex; it's a regular activity, and unlike golf, they're having sex with someone else's body. Accompanying someone to play golf can be simply accompanying; that's certainly not true with sex.