Career "downshifting"

[Kitty Spoon Train]

Little in this topic is directly related to asexuality, but I think this is the best place to post, since the target audience is generally "Older" people. Mods: feel free to move if you think it belongs elsewhere.

A few months ago I decided that I'm finally giving up on my original career. Since then I've been doing some casual menial work and thinking about where I want to go career-wise. I'm increasingly drawn to the idea of learning a trade, or otherwise doing something practical and hands-on, rather than going back to uni and studying up for a "knowledge work" type professional career again. I'm not anywhere near 100% decided on anything, but I'd say at this point that I'm quite adamant on taking that kind of direction. Long story short: I feel that I'm more suited for practical work than for "knowledge work". I'm intellectually curious, yes, but in a very specific way - which seems to only work well for concentrating on things that are sheer 100% personal interest. As soon as something is a "job", I need it to be something that I can (mostly) switch off and go through the motions with. I simply can't concentrate on demand on something I have no deep unwaveringly passionate personal interest in (eg. Working on some random boring business system kills my motivation stone dead, despite my liking computer programming as a hobby otherwise). There are other issues too, but this psychology is the meat of it...

Anyhow, of course, most of the occupations I have in mind are a relative "downshift" (both in terms of money and social prestige and such) when compared with being a software engineer. Neither of these really matter to me personally of course: I'm not materialistic at all, I'm not called to marriage and children and don't have to worry about supporting dependants etc, and I'm certainly not a social/professional "status snob" of any sort...

But I guess on some level, it's hard not to feel like a bit of a failure some days. So much of our culture (especially for men) revolves around the idea of climbing the career ladder, so when you burn out and hopelessly fall off it, and then can't find any way back on, and then start exploring "lesser" paths in life, it's hard not to question and second-guess oneself. Almost overnight: three decades of social conditioning, expectations, family pressure, and even some internalised sense of desirable worldly accomplishment and success died. Even though on some level I was always highly philosophical about such things and rejected conformity to convention, some days certainly feel like I'm staring a severe case of "life unaccomplishment" in the face. <_<

I guess one way this does tie in with asexuality to some extent is the part about not being called to marriage and children. For me alone, facing the relative downshift of an apprentice wage or such is nothing at all, but if I had a wife and kids to support (or was actively interested in same) this would be a much more stressful situation to deal with. But the way it is, it's actually starting to combine with a general sense of I don't do relationships, and here's part of the reason why - my value on the dating market just dropped 90%!! The questions have certainly thinned out, despite my ripe age for that kind of annoying quizzing from family and friends. :P

Anyway, has anyone been through similar experiences of "career downshifting"? Or any thoughts in general? I've got no specific questions, just general discussion of work and life.

[Blue Cat]

Hi, Guzica. I can somewhat relate. I recently went on permanent disability (from the IT industry as well, coincidentally), and I had to consider both my health and finances when making this change. A big part of finances is that I don't have a family to support. Even though I was no longer healthy enough to work, I had continued to do so for here years past my docs advice because I loved my job. As my health worsened, work became less enjoyable and finances was the only consideration.

I have always believed that you can never be luckier than to have a job you enjoy. If you think downsizing your job is right for you and you can afford to, then go for it!

[SacredSorceress]

I call it a career renaissance. I just recently applied to go back to college because there is something I've been wanting to do careerwise for a long time and I'd like to study it more. I've always been the kind person to move in and out of jobs and careers according to my fancy. But yes, you do have that extra social pressure as a man...but you've done the "good job good money" thing already. Now you can "retire" to something more to your sensibilities. It's not a failure, it's a preference. Maybe the feeling of unaccomplishment is really coming from not having done whatever it is you really want to do? I went through that about 10 years ago. What did I have show for myself at 30-something years? Not much it seemed compared to some other people my age at the time. But for me, I eventually realized it was about my own unaccomplished goals and projects. That's what I focus on now and also what I typically mention if people ask what I "do". But it's also ok not to have a goal too (even though that's frowned upon in this society). That would be a great answer to give when someone asks, "So what do you do?" ..."Oh, I just enjoy my life."

[A-Critter]

[i have to remember that 'older' in internet years potentially means 'younger than middle age' :) ]

Hmm, I've had two careers (teaching and engineering) but really what has worked for me is working part time. I worked part time for twenty years when my kids were little and that was just great.

Unfortunately, the job market these years doesn't offer me that flexibility so I'm thinking about chucking it in and seeing what happens. I have enough to get by if I downshift and pick up the odd job.

I do understand your comment about identity and profession for men but for me, well, being a part time househusband kinda made that moot :)

Good luck, hope you find something that works for you. There's a book The Three Marriages by David Whyte which is an interesting take on the idea of the interaction between your relationship with another person, your relationship with work, and your relationship with yourself.

[Janus the Fox]

Community Volunteering may be a good start, if there's such a thing in the local area, an advisor of that can find a hands on approach to work and can give a better idea of where to go next career wise. As a bonus it looks good on CV/Resume's and such.

[Ziffler]

Anyway, has anyone been through similar experiences of "career downshifting"? Or any thoughts in general? I've got no specific questions, just general discussion of work and life.

I have had multiple careers in my life. I usually stay with something for 10 to 15 years and then move on to something else. The nice thing about being single, is that I have always been able to leave on job and go to another without worrying about what it pays and what I will loose in changing jobs. I do not really call them careers, because they are just jobs. When I get bored with one job, I go do something that interests me. Life is too short to stick with something you no longer enjoy.

So in doing this, I have re-started at the bottom over and over again. So as you put it, I have "downshifted" many times. I am currently capped out pay wise at this job, so it wont be long before I "downshift" again.

I will probably continue to work at something as long as my health is good, because I am a loner, and I know that if I stop working, I would stay in my house and never go out again. I need a reason to leave the house. LOL.

Money has never meant anything to me, except a tool to live on. As long as I make enough to live my life, it is enough. I have never judged success by income or status. I judge success by happiness with your life. If yo are living happy then you are a success. If you are living unhappy, then you are unsuccessful. That is my gauge for success.

I find it funny that politicians are arguing about the Middle Class, and I have never made it that high in society. I have never been in the Middle Class, but I have always been happy.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

@Ziffler

I can see a lot of myself in your thinking. :)

I've often been torn by this idea of having a "career" versus just going out there and having various "jobs". I could go either way really: if I found something that I'm utterly passionate about and it can fairly easily translate into a serious dedicated career, then I'd do that. But since I can't find anything like that (at least at the moment), I'm drawn to the opposite "extreme" of just having a string of mini-careers and straight up jobs.

Most of it comes from spending my life trying to find intellectual work that won't drive me insane. Fact is, even though I'm an intellectual person, I'm really only intellectual in the "enjoy speculating about open-ended intellectual topics" kind of way. I've never been much for concrete problem-solving. I hate puzzles. Open-ended speculation is the kind of intellectual stimulation I desire, not being the guy who has to find an obscure race condition bug in a million lines of Java code. Sure, it's "intellectual" work, in a way - but I'd prefer to do something mindless if it comes to that choice, thanks.

Money has never meant anything to me, except a tool to live on. As long as I make enough to live my life, it is enough. I have never judged success by income or status. I judge success by happiness with your life. If yo are living happy then you are a success. If you are living unhappy, then you are unsuccessful. That is my gauge for success.

I've sometimes considered selling everything I have and moving to a South-East Asian country and becoming a Buddhist monk. But no, I don't think total renunciation of the material world is the answer really. And as it stands, I live something relatively close to minimalism as it is anyway (by First World standards). Or as a friend of mine puts it: "Dude, you're so low-maintenance, all you have is a mattress and an Internet connection!" :lol:

I find it funny that politicians are arguing about the Middle Class, and I have never made it that high in society. I have never been in the Middle Class, but I have always been happy.

I've noticed that my levels of life contentment and happiness have absolutely nothing to do with money. My childhood in a developing country was relatively materially poor by First World standards, but we were all very happy kids, playing in the streets with sticks and garbage essentially. Or "street soccer" at most. hehe.

Then when I was a poor student vs well paid professional vs again a fairly "poor" lowly casual menial worker again now - once again, can't see a correlation between monetary wealth and happiness. But yes, at this stage of life it certainly relates to being single and not having dependants. *shrug*

[Busrider]

I studied something failed the final exam, noticed my lack of drive to pass it in the 2nd attempt, was told to do an apprenticeship at least passed that and am now somehow parttime jobbing in that trade and getting along. - So yes; I probably did the downshifting. From my sidejobs I know: Whoring out my brain hurts worst. - I'm a dreamer! Give me something to occupy the hands but let me keep my head. - Yes calls "earth to Busrider" happen at work but I am doing my job. I might drown in it, losing the overview when it will be done but I guess thats how catching the flow should feel. My advice to share: When you downshift: Don't go too far! - As a black sherif for example you might have to spend way too much time on the clock to make ends meet. - Find something that lets you live or at least survive on 20h/week.

IDK what to overearn for. I mean, yes I eat, but hey if cake seemed free what would keep me from stuffing myself till I'd burst? Whats wrong about looking like rag clad working class? Whom should I like to impress with a fancy car when I enjoy riding my CUB much more?

Monetary wealth is a rat race. you might burn out too much to enjoy it while chasing it. As long as your financial situation is just a nobrainer and not yet worrying you the world is fine

[Tyrnis]

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of 'hands on' work can be highly skilled labor. Look at a mechanic, or many of the jobs in the manufacturing sector -- they're not necessarily low-paying, either. The real challenge for you may be in finding the entry level job that will actually take you given your background -- many of them will look at you as overqualified, assume you're not going to stick around, and not hire you.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

Whoring out my brain hurts worst. - I'm a dreamer! Give me something to occupy the hands but let me keep my head.

This is probably the most eloquent way I've ever heard it put. :lol:

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of 'hands on' work can be highly skilled labor. Look at a mechanic, or many of the jobs in the manufacturing sector -- they're not necessarily low-paying, either. The real challenge for you may be in finding the entry level job that will actually take you given your background -- many of them will look at you as overqualified, assume you're not going to stick around, and not hire you.

Yeah, I've had issues with trying to score work like that. eg. At one point I was considering going for factory work which would include a lot of on the job training, etc. Such jobs often explicitly stated that they don't take people with degrees.

I've got a plan with what I'll go for now. Still working out the details, and will sink my teeth right into it in the New Year.

[dandkluvr]

I worked for over 20 years on an ambulance. First as an EMT then as a Paramedic. I loved my job and never thought I would do anything else. Unfortunately, due to back problems, I had to get off the ambulance. That was all I knew and never thought of anything else. I found another job in a hospital that I like but it will never be the same. I think I will always miss EMS and wish I was back on the ambulance.

[Kate1]

I am not interested in climbing the career ladder and would have been very happy to stay in my current (entry level) professional job forever but personal reasons mean I am now desperately trying to find a new job. After 2 years I still have got nowhere. Either I am geniunely considered not good enough or employers look at my history of jobs better paid than I'm applying for and decide that I won't stay and they don't want someone overqualified anyway. It feels like I'm in a trap and I don't know what to do, although I am of course grateful to have my current job in the current climate. I have considered leaving out certain qualifications but that would leave an unexplained gap. In a few years it will have been 10 years since my Master's degree so I can drop that because applications tend to ask for 10 years' employment history.

[Nevyn]

You should consider something in the Civil Engineering field. I made the switch over from IT for all the reasons you stated. I enjoy actually working with my hands and I wanted a career that would left me use all the skills i have at computer work at the same time. Now I inspect job-sites and do testing in structural fill and cement/asphalt etc. I work with contractors and developers and make sure things get built to plans. It is physical and lets me work outside which I enjoy. A lot of the work just requires certification which is a test and a practical exam. I also keep all their computers up and running (usually). I run their materials lab too which is breaking concrete samples and classifying soils. I love my job. My wages are pretty good but makes me working class. I'm good with that too.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

You should consider something in the Civil Engineering field. I made the switch over from IT for all the reasons you stated. I enjoy actually working with my hands and I wanted a career that would left me use all the skills i have at computer work at the same time. Now I inspect job-sites and do testing in structural fill and cement/asphalt etc. I work with contractors and developers and make sure things get built to plans. It is physical and lets me work outside which I enjoy. A lot of the work just requires certification which is a test and a practical exam. I also keep all their computers up and running (usually). I run their materials lab too which is breaking concrete samples and classifying soils. I love my job. My wages are pretty good but makes me working class. I'm good with that too.

Actually, the direction I'm trying to go in now isn't necessarily radically different to this. I'm trying to become a truck driver, with a view to potentially work in mining. So yes, I've just gotten a truck licence recently and started collecting some OHS certifications and such for working on industrial sites. For now I'm looking for standard trucking work, but once you have some experience it's not necessarily hard to branch out into something more specialised.

Well, I guess it's not exactly "similar" to Civil Engineering, except for the point about site work, being out and about, etc. This is something that I found lacking in being stuck in the same office all day long. I like getting out and about, and changes of scenery. It wouldn't matter much that I'm always viewing it from the same cab - the point is in not literally being in the same geographical spot all day every day.

My lifestyle is good for potential remote work too - it's not as if I've got a wife and kid to want to come home to every night. So remote work which is fly-in-fly-out, or even months at a time at a remote site, is totally okay for me (or even if I ever do have any kind of more serious relationship, it'll definitely be with someone non-clingy, who can handle this anyway!). :D

[Nevyn]

Thats great Guzica! You should look at the Hazmat carrier stuff too.

[Janus the Fox]

You should consider something in the Civil Engineering field. I made the switch over from IT for all the reasons you stated. I enjoy actually working with my hands and I wanted a career that would left me use all the skills i have at computer work at the same time. Now I inspect job-sites and do testing in structural fill and cement/asphalt etc. I work with contractors and developers and make sure things get built to plans. It is physical and lets me work outside which I enjoy. A lot of the work just requires certification which is a test and a practical exam. I also keep all their computers up and running (usually). I run their materials lab too which is breaking concrete samples and classifying soils. I love my job. My wages are pretty good but makes me working class. I'm good with that too.

Actually, the direction I'm trying to go in now isn't necessarily radically different to this. I'm trying to become a truck driver, with a view to potentially work in mining. So yes, I've just gotten a truck licence recently and started collecting some OHS certifications and such for working on industrial sites. For now I'm looking for standard trucking work, but once you have some experience it's not necessarily hard to branch out into something more specialised.

Well, I guess it's not exactly "similar" to Civil Engineering, except for the point about site work, being out and about, etc. This is something that I found lacking in being stuck in the same office all day long. I like getting out and about, and changes of scenery. It wouldn't matter much that I'm always viewing it from the same cab - the point is in not literally being in the same geographical spot all day every day.

My lifestyle is good for potential remote work too - it's not as if I've got a wife and kid to want to come home to every night. So remote work which is fly-in-fly-out, or even months at a time at a remote site, is totally okay for me (or even if I ever do have any kind of more serious relationship, it'll definitely be with someone non-clingy, who can handle this anyway!). :D

Ah... The mining industry... I had a potential job at a nearby but globally controversial open cast mine that needed an IT Systems officer to deal with quotas and various inspections so that database figures matched physical materials mined and shipped, a job that sounded like it wasn't too intensive on computers. A valid route into mining from computing backgrounds could work...

The site in question was the Ffos-Y-Fran Opencast Mine. It made news possibly everywhere from environmentalists, health experts and global heratige conversationalists.

[test account]

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