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[Guest]

I would define a relationship equal if both partners are happy with what they get and give, whether they're both seeking for the same thing or not. If a partner doesn't mind being pleased less than the other, and the other partner doesn't mind being more pleased, then there should be no problem. Think about all those asexuals who have sex with their partner because they don't mind it.

I know something about your past relationship with this man and I guess you shouldn't pursue it, because your needs are clearly too different and you won't build up the long-term relationship you probably desire with him. But that's not my place to say so ;) Just giving a few opinions which should be useful on a general level.

[henshin]

Personally:

Is it expected that both parties make an equal effort to physically please the other? I'd say yes to this but it is worth nothing that I'm a homoromantic woman and I have this idea that when two women are having sex you do both have to be a bit active cus its not just like you can lie back and think of England and wait for the guy to just get it done.

Is it 'cheating' to receive more pleasure than you give? Not really, I mean, if you're like 'all me' it is kind of selfish but you shouldn't do anything you aren't comfortable with. If your partner doesn't like your behaviour on a consistent basis then it would seem like you two just aren't a very good match.

Is it offensive to reveal to the other person that you don't care if they can't please you because you can do it for yourself if necessary? I would say it is a bit antagonistic and unnecessary, yes, but its all about context.

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[Pamcakes]

Averillo, sex operates on many of the same rules as any other social interaction, regardless of the emotional intimacy involved; consideration, respect, and mutuality should all be striven for by a polite partner. Whether the sex is within the context of an existing serious relationship or not, similar conduct is expected during it - which is to treat the other person as well as possible.

That said, on occasion, even normally considerate 'giver' people decide they just want to get off, and that's fine, too, but it's my personal opinion that if one is not even willing to pay any attention to making sure the tryst was enjoyable for the other person, then the prospective one-night-lover should be appraised of this at some point between the 'deal' being clinched and actually getting into a cab to retire to a more private location for the evening's acrobatics. It's just polite to give them warning going in, and let them decide if they're interested in pursuing the tryst if it's just going to be all about pleasing the other partner (and plenty of people would still be up for this).

P.

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[Olivier]

Hmm, I guess you actually have to appreciate the value of what your lover is doing for you to be motivated to reciprocate. I valued it on a physical level but on a personal level, after things went bad, I thought it was like eating mcdonalds. Tasty but junk.

And I think that's what is confusing about sexuality. I'm still attracted to having impersonal sex with that guy the same as I sometimes crave a big Mac. But it's still junk to me and I'd rather enjoy a healthy life--what is healthy for me I mean. I don't think that makes me asexual. I don't know what it means really. Anal retentive maybe. Or just easily satisfied with watching pot plants grow. Dunno.

Sounds pretty normal to me. I've given up regular sex for singledom in the past, because the relationship (if it even was one) wasn't good for me. If nothing else, having a regular fuckbuddy would have sent all the wrong signals to the sort of person I was hoping to attract.

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[sonofzeal]

Is it expected that both parties make an equal effort to physically please the other?

Yes. That can take different forms, depending on the preference of the people involved. It may be that interests line up enough that, by the time one partner has their pleasure, the other does too with no special effort. Either way, it's good form to try and make sure that whoever you're partnering with is satisfied, whatever that means for them, and to be willing to see to their satisfaction within reasonable limits.

Is it 'cheating' to receive more pleasure than you give?

No. Honestly, for most partners, it's downright inevitable that there's an imbalance in some way. See the previous; as long as both partners are being considerate and GGG (Good, Giving, and Game), then it's all cool.

Is it offensive to reveal to the other person that you don't care if they can't please you because you can do it for yourself if necessary?

I'd say no. It'd be offensive to presume they can't please you, because that insults both their sexual desirability and their skill at pleasing you. On the other hand, many people have masturbation fetishes and may actively enjoy watching you do it for yourself. Good form would probably be to let them try, and then either finish it by guiding their hands or gradually take control yourself if they can't. If you don't want them attempting, spell that out beforehand, and make it clear that this isn't about their desireability or skill. Make up an excuse if you have to; "I chaff really easily" for guys, or "it's hard to get me off at certain points in my cycle" for girls. Or just be honest. But hurting their feelings can probably make the whole event a no-go, as well as damaging the friendship.

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[sonofzeal]

Thanks

I feel like I'm learning a new language here. Not that I ever expect to be good at speaking it, nor obliged to do so, but is good to understand it. Maybe I won't be so clueless in future :)

Honestly, most of it should be common sense.

Imagine hanging out with friends. You have things you enjoy, they have things they enjoy. Last time I had a friend over, we played some Star Control 2, then played some board games, then watched the old 80's Ninja Turtle cartoon. I definitely got more out of the SC2 and board game, he probably got more out of the TMNT.

When choosing what activities to do, I thought about both my desires and his. I tried to choose activities both of us would enjoy to some extent, and I'm sure he did the same. We didn't sit with a pen and paper work and keep a tally, and it may be that I had more fun than he did (I won both the games), or vice versa (I'm not really into TMNT beyond a basic curiosity). But neither of us forced any activity on the other, and the primary enjoyment was from each other's company and from the conversations that came out of it. Games and TV shows are fun, but it's the person I was chilling with that made it a good evening.

Now, let's say I'm hankering for more SC2, but I suspect he's getting bored. What should I do? The most polite solution is to carry on to other activities that might be more interesting to him, and then come back to it later on my own time. Or, I could leave him with TMNT for a few minutes, tell him I'm just going to check something out on SC2 before I forget, and come back and rejoin him as soon as I can. If I'm gone for more than 5-8 minutes that can get rude, but if I make it quick then it's acceptable. And he might not mind checking out what I'm doing there, as it may teach him something about the game. Again, the point is about the time shared, more than exactly what's done.

If you can navigate social situations, you can navigate more intimate encounters. Same rules apply.

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[sonofzeal]

Well, it's not exactly common sense. For instance, you don't expect a native Kalahari bushman to know how to navigate the politics of a business meeting in the United States. All social stuff is stuff you learn, it's not instinctive. You can draw on what you know already, but if the culture is new to you, you can get it quite wrong till you learn.

But I appreciate the good intentions. It's worth noting that since leaving the religion I was brought up in, I've been having to learn the social rules for lots of settings that I've not been exposed to before. Believe me, behaviour is not instinctive. You get socialised a certain way and it feels normal to you, but it's just a culture. Like moving to a different country. Feelings may be universal, such as respect, but how that is demonstrated can be quite different. ;)

Oh, granted. But I would expect that, for whatever society you're in, etiquette around sexuality is going to resemble etiquette around social events. Cultures obviously differ, but whatever your culture, I would expect that pattern to hold as long as that culture is sexually open enough and egalitarian enough to not have other overriding forces. In heavily patriarchal societies were women are seen more like property, obviously it'll differ... but probably still resemble male-female relationships outside the bedroom.

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[Guest]

AA, there are websites that are for people, especially women, who have left oppressive religions. I suppose you might call them online support groups. Not that I'm telling you to leave AVEN, I think you're one of the more interesting people on here :P but those websites might have people who have been through the same things you have and will have better advice to offer you than us (mostly) asexuals.

Now, to actually be on topic, from what I've heard, a partner who only focuses on pleasing themselves and not their partner is simply seen as "bad in bed" or possibly selfish. I think it is understood that "good" sex is supposed to be about pleasing each partner equally. Not that I have any real experience! :lol:

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[Avistew]

Is it expected that both parties make an equal effort to physically please the other?

Yes, assuming that's what they both want. That is, insisting on giving someone an orgasm when they want you to drop it isn't cool, in my opinion. Some straight men especially are like that, and it can put a lot of pressure, cause women to fake orgasms, and be painful when they keep going even though they should stop.

I think here it's important to dissociate between "pleasure" and "orgasm", as you can give each other pleasure with or without orgasms.

Is it 'cheating' to receive more pleasure than you give?

No. One might feel bad about it, but people just don't all work the same way. Going back to orgasms (which are easier to quantify than the more vague "pleasure") some people have them way more easily than other, and some people have stronger ones than others. It's somewhat easier when you have two males or two females to have the same amount of orgasms, but it's pretty hard with males and females, as males get them way more easily usually. On the other hand, women have the ability to have many in a row, meaning they might be the one getting way more of them.

It can be good, if you feel it's very unbalanced, to have a night dedicated to the person who's had less "pleasure", where it's all about them, for instance. Obviously it needs to be an enjoyable experience for everyone involved, and not a chore or something.

Is it offensive to reveal to the other person that you don't care if they can't please you because you can do it for yourself if necessary?

Speaking as a straight woman, many get offended because they have that pride thing where they think they should be able to get you off magically with their penis. Which doesn't work for most women. On the other hand, a lot of them get aroused by the idea of a woman masturbating. I find the option can be to do it first. They get aroused by it, and then they don't get all stressed out about having to make you come, and if you do they feel all pleased about it. What I actually really like (graphic)

is lying on top of a partner (I only get orgasms when masturbating if I'm lying om my front) and using their penis to masturbate with, holding it at the base and rubbing it against me. It feels good for the guy but is generally not enough to make him come. I just take my time and as I'm about to come I put him inside of me, so I come with him inside, and then we have "regular" sex

. Doesn't mean it's the only way I do things, either.

And honestly, sometimes I'm like "I'd love to have sex, but I'm too tired to have an orgasm". It's a lot of effort for me, I need to tense all my muscles and focus a lot, and with someone else there, there is a lot of pressure, too. So sometimes I'm like "I don't feel up to having an orgasm tonight, let's not worry about it".

Of course, the downside (for me personally) is that sometimes they answer "okay, then let's not have sex at all" and I get disappointed that I don't get to see/make them come!

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