Does Christianity make sense?

[Sally]

Soo... what you're saying is that no Jewish text should be taken seriously as it could related to history?

What you said makes no sense and certainly was not what I said. But think what you wish.

[panic_teh_s00prn00b]

Soo... what you're saying is that no Jewish text should be taken seriously as it could related to history?

What you said makes no sense and certainly was not what I said. But think what you wish.

Well, you're excuse seems to be that my examples were written about long after they were supposed to have occurred. If that's the case, then it would also be true for everything else because it was all written much later as well, was it not? Quit cherry-picking.

[panic_teh_s00prn00b]

I get so tired of these posts on AVEN. We need to do away with this. However, in the interest of answering some questions I would like to bring up one of the best stories about faith in the Bible found in Genesis 22. The story of Abraham and Isaac.

Abraham had many children, but Isaac was his only son. He loved Isaac. God tells Abraham to offer his son as burnt sacrifice. Remember, before the crucifixion of Jesus, sacrifice was made to God to attone for sin. Sacrifice could be gifts placed on the altar, it could also be animal sacrifice. So Abraham takes son Isaac to Moriah. He tells his son they they will offer sacrifice to God there.

When they arrive at Moriah, Isaac realizes something is wrong. They have the articles for the fire, a knife, and everything they need but no animal for the sacrifice. Isaac questions his father and his father replies, "God himself will provide the lamb for a burnt offering my son" Genesis 22:8 NRSV. See Abraham knows full well that even though he does not know how, God will not allow Isaac to perish. Abraham has complete faith.

As many know, God provides a ram for the sacrifice and spares Isaac just as Abraham had predicted. There was no way God would allow Abraham to harm his own son. Abraham in honor of God renames this place Adonai-Jireh. Or in some translations Jehoveh Jireh, which anglinized translation from the greek texts means, "God will provide".

To understand this story is to understand God's relationship with us. Wars, death, disease, these are the works of sin and of man. God redeems us from this. He loves us unconditionally. All we have to do is give it to him to find that freedom and peace. We have to be all in. Abraham was all in.

Now you don't have to be a Christian or believe to get these points. However, you should understand them to be able to intelligently talk about Christianity. Otherwise you are showing ignorance and being offensive to AVEN members who are Christian and have faith. There is a good number of us. I for one have faith. Complete faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He has been there every time I have needed Him even when I was not deserving.

If anyone wants to seriously talk to me about faith, they can find me in chat often or you can PM me. I don't bite. Just please, don't attack my faith. It is distasteful.

J.

Are you kidding? That's probably one of the most disgusting episodes in the entire book!

Oh, speaking of ritual human sacrifice in the Bible, why did God let Jephthah sacrifice his daughter to him? Yeah, no angel sent to save the day that time.

[PiF]

He's funny like that

[Sidhe]

*snip*

I for one enjoyed this post. We do take a lot of things on faith without realizing it. We trust what people say because we are taught they are supposed to know. And we can't escape doing this because we don't have time to test everything for ourselves.

So rather than have a problem with faith, I suppose the important thing is ask oneself how does putting faith in xyz affect me? Does it help or harm me? Does it make me happy or sad?

I don't think I know of any other way to make a decision about faith.

Whoa - okay, sorry, only just came back to this after a couple weeks of RL stuff.

But yes, that's pretty much my point, summarized in non-sleep-deprived babble. :D Faith is, if nothing else a very personal thing. I firmly believe that while religion is public, faith is private - and shouldn't be any other way. You can have one without the other, but in many cases, one truly helps the other grow and mature - but you have to have the right soil. And in far too many cases, you get the wrong group or wrong minister/pastor/priest and that will easily kill things and the desire to know more and close the mind against learning.

Oh, and to the comments above about cherry-picking: One thing that people often miss about the Bible is that it is not a book. It's a small library. You've got political commentary, creation myths, histories, erotic poetry, exaggerations as to literary effect, common motifs, songs, motherly advice, dietary laws, genealogies, personal testimonies, etc. The Bible is a collection of books, and you wouldn't take the whole of a library as complete truth, would you? Of course, it's forever going to be a discussion of what should be taken literally and what should be taken symbolically, and what should be looked at new through modern lenses, and I'm not going to argue that unprovable point. It's ntpicking, no matter what side of the argument you take.

Note #2: The story of Issac's near sacrifice is meant to be understood as a refutation of other religions who had child sacrifice at the time. The mountain that Abraham to Issac up was a very important one, as it overshadowed (I think - I'm recalling public college classes here) areas where child/human sacrifices took place. Therefore, the story of Issac was meant to be a story of Yahweh declaring that there would be no more human sacrifices. A direct parallel to the crucifixion, which was intended to be a final sacrifice (drawing parallels to the Passover lamb), as opposed to future blood offerings.

Note #3: The tale of Jephthah's daughter is a very common motif in stories, and one that's usually meant to teach a lesson. For example, look up "The Girl with Silver Hands." Seems to me that it's more of a warning against making foolish, boastful bargains with anyone, even God himself, rather than a tale that instructs the reader to act as the obviously grieving father does. How many people out there give desperate prayers of "If you just get me through this/help me with this/give me this, then I'll do this/give you this/obey this? And how would you feel if you were actually called on that?

[Sally]

Note #2: The story of Issac's near sacrifice is meant to be understood as a refutation of other religions who had child sacrifice at the time. The mountain that Abraham to Issac up was a very important one, as it overshadowed (I think - I'm recalling public college classes here) areas where child/human sacrifices took place. Therefore, the story of Issac was meant to be a story of Yahweh declaring that there would be no more human sacrifices. A direct parallel to the crucifixion, which was intended to be a final sacrifice (drawing parallels to the Passover lamb), as opposed to future blood offerings.

The story of Isaac's near sacrifice is understood by Jewish scholars to be an example of Abraham's acceptance of God -- Abraham was the first Jew, actually a "convert". The Christian story of the cruxifixion is not a parallel to animal sacrifices, because the cruxifixion was supposedly the way out of "original sin", which is a Christian concept -- there's no belief in original sin in Judaism. The animal sacrifices were simply trying to please God -- all ancient religions had sacrifice rituals.