I want beer and paintball!

[Forensic]

Personally I'd subscribe to the gent's eve and go.

They cannot tell you that you cannot do so... you have every right to claim sexism and such. Separate but equal isn't allowed...

If they are saying you cannot go, go above them. Go above the person above them. And if that doesn't work, go to the papers.

Or, just go do your own thing and pretend they don't exist... but that's hardly going to change anything.

[mylittlevoices]

Here's a link to a pic of me doing a jacknife, it's an advanced move and can be fairly dangerous, in case anyone would like to see the strength involved in the sport (nothing dodgy, it's in a gym I'm wearing shorts and a top)

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/loop...la/PICT4551.jpg

All I have to say is that picture convinces me. Ow.

Thanks, that generally isn't one of the painful moves, although one time I fell out of it and jolted my shoulder and that did hurt

[Lunacy]

Okay, that's the type of thing that would really infuriate me. This is so blatantly sexist. I wouldn't consider it to be just a "small, unimportant thing" - it upset you, and that's not right. When sexism starts to invade your everyday life like this, it shouldn't just be ignored. If I were in that university, I'd have already complained to the student council by now. Stereotyping people based on gender (or anything else) is inacceptable under all circumstances.

Actually, I'm not very surprised you're the only one in your school to get upset over this....a lot of people are really apathetic when it comes to that kind of stuff. They're so used to witnessing/experiencing racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination in their life that they're not even aware of its presence unless it's very obvious. They've become insensitive to it. Those things just don't make them react anymore, but it doesn't mean it's okay.

So the guys get to do all the fun stuff, like paintballing, while the girls are going to be wasting their time buying sex toys. What kind of party is that??? They'll probably be gossiping about boys and describe their sex life. Although I think that pole dancing lessons actually seem fun (and something I might even consider trying eventually), the rest seems really boring to me. I hope you won't show up to the girls' party - that would just encourage them.

Showing up to the guys' party is up to you, but I don't know if it would be such a good idea, unfortunately.....paintballing sounds great, and if you have the courage to attend that party, good for you. However....I think you'd have to face some hostility from the guys, and you'd have to expect that you might not feel so welcome. Also, when guys are all together, a lot of them become different....If you can put up with that, then it should be fine. Just try looking as androgynous as possible, so that they won't notice that you're not 'supposed' to be there.

What would I do if I were in your situation....I'd organize a party of my own. It wouldn't be as big as the uni's parties, but at least you can have fun without having to deal with all that fucking sexist crap.

[Derp]

I don't know, sounds like there's some potential for fun at the girls' party. You could gather up all the dildos, and run around yelling "I AM LORENA BOBBITT! ALL YOUR PENIS ARE BELONG TO ME!!" And then throw them into a nearby shrub.

Also, something dipped in chocolate fondue might make a nice makeshift paintball... ;)

[Sammie]

As I said already: there's legally nothing I can do because my membership in itsself isn't official. Result; no legal ground to stand on.

However, I wrote a strong-worded column and handed it in for publication of the student-society website. If they refuse to post it, or it doesn't convince them, I'll defenitely go above their heads. Also, I'm planning to hand in a bunch of suggestions for parties that challenge gender norms, like a dance with a drag-dress-code. Any ideas?

I'm pretty much alone in this fight together with one guy who doesn't think open oppposition is a good idea, so my possibilities are few. A petition or protest is not an option.

I'll disagree with you on this point because I actually pole dance, not as a stripper, not for a bloke but I do it for me. Pole dance is coming into the mainstream now and is considered to be an accepted fitness class. It is highly acrobatic and requires a great deal of flexibility and strength plus a high pain threshold. I am currently covered in bruises from my last class. A lot of people seem to have this idea that pole dancing is nothing but gyrating around a pole when it's actually not. Trust me, looking sexy is the least of my worries when I'm hanging upside down by one leg, in pain, petrified that I'm gonna lose my grip and fall on my head.

Impressive picture.

Yes, I know, pole-dancing can be atlethic, and it can be non-sexual. I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that it can be.

However, it depends on the context. In a stripclub, of course pole-dancing is sexual. And pole-dancing lessons held on a Lady's Night sqeezed in between a rubber-ware party and a session of man-hunting, sounds to me like a completely sexual affair. There's nothing non-sexual about it in that context.

I don't know, sounds like there's some potential for fun at the girls' party. You could gather up all the dildos, and run around yelling "I AM LORENA BOBBITT! ALL YOUR PENIS ARE BELONG TO ME!!" And then throw them into a nearby shrub.

WHAHAHAHAHA!!! That'd be Hilarious!

I'd be the only one laughing though. I never met a girl in real life who came remotely close to understanding references like that.

[thylacine]

"Chocolate fondue, yoga-classes, pole-dancing classes, cocktails, and a rubber-ware party! Yes, the girls are going to go shopping for dildo's" -- WTF??? This is the most ridiculous concept for a party I ever heard of... I just wouldn't go at all.

[Skylark]

Even if I win the party will suck because the guys wouldn't want me there.

I disagree. I think that the guys would probably respect you for standing up for what you want instead of jumping on the bandwagon. And if they don't, then they deserve to have their party wrecked by you, I say.

[Seien Hananosei]

Lame! Who would want to go to the girls party when the guys get to participate in legal violence? :o Well, when all else fails, Cross-dress! >:D (I doubt they'd be able to do much if you just decided to show up at the guys party, though... )

[Blueflare]

I would have thought that there would be a few other girls who wouldn't be into the girl's party (especially the "rubberware" part) so perhaps you could have a party with them if all else fails. If you can't throw a party just go out for drinks or something. But definietely don't go to the stupid girl's party. I don't know about you, but apart from the fondue, I would hate every minute of it.

[Lunacy]

Lame! Who would want to go to the girls party when the guys get to participate in legal violence? :o Well, when all else fails, Cross-dress! >:D (I doubt they'd be able to do much if you just decided to show up at the guys party, though... )

I agree that cross-dressing is one of the best alternatives. If you look like a guy, they have no excuse not to let you inside the party room. And if they don't let you, you could always sneak inside when nobody's looking.....

If that doesn't work...like I said, make a party of your own. Make it an 'anti-establishment' non-conformist party, or something like that. If nobody from your school comes, then invite friends that you have outside of school (if you have any). Then go to the girls party and play pranks on them. Ruin their stupid party!!!!

[Shinnok]

I honestly feel like punching people who say "Well you can't do this because you weren't born with a penis/vagina! That makes you completely different!" Nothing burns my ass more than people saying stupid shit like that....Sorry that happened to you..

[Spoofmaster]

If it were me, I doubt that I'd have the courage to show up at the guys' party (and it really is too bad about the legal aspect). I am glad that you've written an article about it (tell us if that gets published!), and I think what would be best at this point would be to try to publicize how you feel about this, even if you do so anonymously.

While it's true that a lot of people seem to just plain not care about these things, I doubt that you're really the only one who feels this way. People have a tendency to keep their heads down and go with the flow--unless someone speaks up, all those people who are secretly feeling wronged will never let the organizers know about it. It's hard to be the first person to make a stand, but once you do you might find that you'll have followers.

I don't think it's inherently bad to have separate parties for girls and boys some of the time. Being in a group composed entirely of your own gender can make things feel more relaxed, and as long as the majority of the parties are open to everyone and have a mixture of activities (i.e. paintball followed by a fondue party), it shouldn't be a problem. What gets me about this is the fact that the girls' party is sexualized, and the boys' party is not. Like other people have said: the boys' party is full of inoffensive activities that should work for everyone on some level (I'm not sure I'd want to participate in paintball, but it would be fun to watch), and the girls' party seems almost deliberately designed to exclude any girls who are not desperate for male attention.

[Kelly]

*sings*

I want beer and I want paintball!

Beer and paintball, beer and paintball!

Lots of good posts on this. I hope that somehow you and other female-type peeps can go to the cool party.

[Nico-Nico Friendo]

Man! Be a gender rebel! You should just crash the guys' party! The cross-dressing part sounds like a good idea, too. Heh. ^^ Maybe they will kick you out and maybe they won't . . . BUT if you really want to go, it's better than not trying at all, right? (Then again, I'm a bit of a coward myself and probably would not do it. But I'm socially inept, and don't like parties and drinking alcohol, anyway . . . Though, as a side note, if I WERE more of the social type, I would have to say that I would MUCH rather like to go to the guys' party than the girls' party -- it does sound a WHOLE lot better and more fun to me!)

[Sammie]

I decided not to crash the guys party. Because:

- I don't want people to think that its just about going to a party, its about something bigger then that. I'm not jealous, I just want things to change. I want to show that I'm serious, and not just want to go to a party.

- These are my friends. I don't want to start by arousing hostility. I think I might actually be able to convince them in my views if I handle it less provocatively.

Instead, I wrote a column for the Student Society website, and if that doesn't help, I'll publish more, at different places. I think this way I have a chance of actually convincing my fellow students.

[Sha'zar]

hmm, if i was going to your uni/college, i would've totally dressed up as a 'girl' dressing up as a 'boy', and gone to the guys party w/ you... just to screw w/ their idea of gender...

[thylacine]

Sammie, would you like to show us the essay you wrote for the Student Body Website? I'm sure a lot of us would love to read it.

[Sammie]

Well, the two party's are tonight, I've decided not to go to either. I don't even feel like a party.

The column is in Dutch, but I might translate it. It hasn't been published jet, but I already had my first hateful reaction. I showed a few people and one guy said litereally: that if I wanted to live in a perfect gender-tolerant world I could go do so alone, in my own little paradise. That I should be careful not to eat that apple while he was in the real world getting a beer. I'm afraid most reactions will be like this. Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are.

[Forensic]

Well, the two party's are tonight, I've decided not to go to either. I don't even feel like a party.

The column is in Dutch, but I might translate it. It hasn't been published jet, but I already had my first hateful reaction. I showed a few people and one guy said litereally: that if I wanted to live in a perfect gender-tolerant world I could go do so alone, in my own little paradise. That I should be careful not to eat that apple while he was in the real world getting a beer. I'm afraid most reactions will be like this. Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are.

If this is your audience, I would take no offense to stupid comments. :)

[AllyCat]

Well, the two party's are tonight, I've decided not to go to either. I don't even feel like a party.

The column is in Dutch, but I might translate it. It hasn't been published jet, but I already had my first hateful reaction. I showed a few people and one guy said litereally: that if I wanted to live in a perfect gender-tolerant world I could go do so alone, in my own little paradise. That I should be careful not to eat that apple while he was in the real world getting a beer. I'm afraid most reactions will be like this. Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are.

Sounds like you touched a nerve. I agree with Forensic: if people like this are up in arms, it's probably because you're doing something right. Don't let the idiots get you down; you are doing something really good.

By the way, it seems like the boy's party is gendered and politicized just as much as the girls' party. Paintball and meat are both about killing things; this seems like part of a larger "real men are violent" message. I also suspect that it gets a lot of its "cool" from the fact that it's masculine, and people value masculine qualities over feminine ones in our society.

[thylacine]

"Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are." I thought the Dutch were more open minded... ? Oh well. Guess I may have been wrong.

[Sammie]

Yeah, I noticed the "real men are violent" message. Its defenitely there. I may not find it as repulsive as the "real women are sexy" message, but its just as present.

"Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are." I thought the Dutch were more open minded... ? Oh well. Guess I may have been wrong.

Sigh. I thought so too. I was so wrong.

[AVENCakes]

The column is in Dutch, but I might translate it. It hasn't been published jet, but I already had my first hateful reaction. I showed a few people and one guy said litereally: that if I wanted to live in a perfect gender-tolerant world I could go do so alone, in my own little paradise. That I should be careful not to eat that apple while he was in the real world getting a beer. I'm afraid most reactions will be like this. Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are.

Well, as long as we're dragging in religion. Is he saying that women are bad due to the original sin? I read that bit of one version of the bible- he wouldn't like my take on it. (It was an actual bible, but apparently there's various versions. Like old, new, king james')

[Miala]

As fun as it might have been to turn up at the guys' party, and dare anyone to make a fuss, I think you're going about things the right way. ^.^ Had you gone along to the party, people might just have assumed that you were stroppy over the party itself, and continued to chide you with comments like 'It's just a party, stop making such a big deal'. As is, you're showing that it's more a matter of the principles behind it, rather than something as trivial as you sulking over not getting beer and paintball. Hopefully people will start to take notice. ^^;

I think it's good that you're not just letting the whole thing slide, as you...really shouldn't. Nobody should. Even if it's 'just a party', discrimination is discrimination. Had the two nights been gender themed, but open to people of both genders, I wouldn't have had a problem. Well...okay, the girls' activities are pretty crummy, and would alienate a bunch of girls, let alone guys. So I might have had a problem with that. ^^; But as long as the choice is there, it's not...so bad. Terribly stereotypical, but not so bad. Restricting people based on their gender, though? Even if it's something as trivial as a party, that's not really right.

For the record, I don't think I would have gone to either party either. I might enjoy yoga and chocolate, but pole dancing and dildos? Not so much. And paintballing might be fun, but I don't drink, and I'm a vegetarian. Evidently I fail at being both genders. I guess I wouldn't be invited? ^_~

[Sammie]

The column is in Dutch, but I might translate it. It hasn't been published jet, but I already had my first hateful reaction. I showed a few people and one guy said litereally: that if I wanted to live in a perfect gender-tolerant world I could go do so alone, in my own little paradise. That I should be careful not to eat that apple while he was in the real world getting a beer. I'm afraid most reactions will be like this. Stupid permanently-drunken idiots these students are.

Well, as long as we're dragging in religion. Is he saying that women are bad due to the original sin? I read that bit of one version of the bible- he wouldn't like my take on it. (It was an actual bible, but apparently there's various versions. Like old, new, king james')

I don't think the guy who made that post ever gave so much thought to it. I think he meant that if I wanted to live in a world without sin, I should do so without bothering him about it. He was just ranting. Its usefless to wonder what he meant really.

[Sammie]

Well, I haven't even posted the column jet and already the ammount of negative reactions is overwelming. I have no idea how to react to the waterfal of rants, false logic claiming I'm just selfish in my feminism, people digging up every little thing they ever disliked about me. Apparently, I struck a nerve. I'm getting damn sad, sick and tired of it though.

[Beardless]

Sammie, you're being Awesome for standing up for this. Any call on the gender ratio of your detractors? I get the feeling that they'll be mostly male, because a) a shallow interpretation is "I want to play with the boys", which they might not be happy about, and b) I suspect that a higher proportion of males than females were happy with their party. And of course, c) they're claiming you're a feminist.

If they're resorting to personal attacks, it shows they have no real response.

The best way to respond? Let the responses be seen by all, and point out their fallacies. If there's certain individuals who should have known better (those in positions of responsibility) name and shame them with their comments.

[Sammie]

Yes, most are guys. But that might be because guys are just more active on these debates in general.

So far, I've heared mroe guys be critical (secretly) about these parties, then women. It suprised me that not one woman seemed to really care or think the woman's party to be sexist....

Most of the posts take place on a public forum, so they're just making a fool out of themselve. I responed to the worst insults by rickrolling them. They're still trying to figure out what a rick-roll is. Maybe they stopped taking me serious, but I've lost all hope of convincing those people.

[Sammie]

SUCCESS!!!

Well, I posted my column, got a debate going, and things quickly turned for the better. Turns out that in previous years men had been allowed on ladies day and vise versa, and that had nog been an unpleasant thing. Next time, that will be the case again! (as this year, the party is already in the past).

While the activities op ladies day and gentlemen's eve are still kind of sexist and stereotipical, at least there won't be any most exclusion. I can't wait for next years gentlemen's eve!

[Olivier]

That's great, Sammie, well done!! :cake: