ThePapercraftingCat Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 I was inspired by this post from @The Paracosmistto ask what people think about the use of AI. It seems that for the last year or so AI has been one of the most talked about topics. But what do you think? As someone who wants to work in the acting/performing arts industry, I can't support the use of AI in that way. I want to do voice acting, and AI generated voices are already being used to do voice for adverts. Obviously the use of AI in that way would impact me, as there would be less job opportunities for voice actors. Some of the AI voices I've heard are indistinguishable from human voices. And don't get me started on AI voice cloning. And I feel for the screenwriters and actors on strike, one of the reasons why they were striking was because of AI potentially being used in the future, to write a script or generate extras. Yes, AI has other uses, like being used in medicine, but not in the creative industries when it could be used to replace jobs. Anyway those are my thoughts. I would place myself in the 'kind of' category, as I do think that AI could be used for good, but it's all the other things that it could be used for that I'm worried about. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PathosBathosEthos Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 All hail our new over lord! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElloryJaye Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebluestskye Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 I think the thing is ultimately AI is just a tool and the problems with it like with any tool are in who uses it and how they use it, like how a hammer can be used to put up a lovely picture or to bonk someone on the head. The question of should we even have AI is almost irrelevant now because we do, it's out of the box and we can never put it back in for better or for worse. How AI gathers it's data is, in my opinion, completely unethical and needs to be altered immediately and how AI is used needs immediate and worldwide regulations put in place. For me as someone who's an anti-capitalist and a creative artist (primarily a writer) AI could be a way towards a society free from capitalism where most 'required' jobs can be automated so those that work only do so because they want to and people can focus their time on engaging in and participating in the local and global community (not just politically but socially too) and on spending their lives how they want to spend them but the issue with that (beyond it being a pipe dream) is one this will be a gradual process and more importantly two the people who make and control these AI development teams are large corporations motivated primarily (if not solely) by money and those corporations are backed by those in political power so they have no motivation to work towards that sort of future (at least right now they don't anyways) 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Paracosmist Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, ThePapercraftingCat said: I was inspired by this post from @The Paracosmistto ask what people think about the use of AI. It seems that for the last year or so AI has been one of the most talked about topics. But what do you think? As someone who wants to work in the acting/performing arts industry, I can't support the use of AI in that way. I want to do voice acting, and AI generated voices are already being used to do voice for adverts. Obviously the use of AI in that way would impact me, as there would be less job opportunities for voice actors. Some of the AI voices I've heard are indistinguishable from human voices. And don't get me started on AI voice cloning. And I feel for the screenwriters and actors on strike, one of the reasons why they were striking was because of AI potentially being used in the future, to write a script or generate extras. Yes, AI has other uses, like being used in medicine, but not in the creative industries when it could be used to replace jobs. Anyway those are my thoughts. I would place myself in the 'kind of' category, as I do think that AI could be used for good, but it's all the other things that it could be used for that I'm worried about. Wow cant believe I actually inspired a post! I agree, for some things it can be useful, but it also can kick ppl out of jobs and the issue of being able to recreate things, and copywright ect. I think some of the best uses are certain things that ai may make easier, and it could maybe do jobs that may be not liked (as in take the place of ppl doing stuff that wont rlly be that enjoyable, or just boring). But for creative stuff, like art or writing? Its more interesting to see what it does than actually use it for stuff, and it baffles me if anyone actually gets money from it. Cause, all you do is give it a prompt and change a couple settings. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frendo Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 At its current form it(minus algorithms and things like that, I'm talking AI like ChatGPT which is just its own separate resource)it hasn't truly had an impact. Many of the things that already existed without Ai(google search engine, paid artists, etc.) did some of the functions that AI has, now AI just re[;aces it in a(most of the time) simular manner. So while I can say it will have an impact, its mainly sensational up until now. No major changes have been enacted due to Ai(changes within the school system, with the society, etc.) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J. van Deijck Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Yes, but no. It's amazing how AI paints pictures and imitates singers' voices so people can make cover songs of whatever they wish their idols would sing, but in general, the whole concept is quite unsettling to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 AI does not exist. The programs that are being called AI are neither intelligent nor conscious. They have no awareness of what they are doing. What they do is plagiarize from a large number of human artists or writers and make composites of this stolen work. In the case of visual artists they then compete with the working human artists whose work they stole, cranking out pictures in the human artist's style at lightning speed and selling them more cheaply than a human artist who needs to eat could possibly afford to. Corporations should not be allowed to steal from artists who are already working ridiculously long hours yet living below the poverty line, destroying what little livelihood they have. Using a computer program to commit this cruel theft does not somehow make it okay. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crystal dragon Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 @nanogretchen4 That's exactly why I don't support it, it's immoral, (and illegal if you are making a profit I believe) for a real physical human artist to copy someone elses work and display it as their own, so why should AI be allowed to? And it can only be copied because AI does not (currently I guess) have "original thoughts". On the one hand, artists do learn and pick up things from their fellow artists, but they always add their own flair and uniqueness to it which makes it individualized and special, because as an artist, it is incredibly hard to completely copy someone elses style, but all AI art programs do this regularly. AI art programs piss me off basically so I agree with you 110% I listen to Vocaloid, which is a program of someone's voice, which irked me at first for similar reasons, but I realized even then it requires somebody to record their own voice bank, and for the producer to actually put effort into making it sound nice, putting the words together, adding music etc... so even then it becomes more like an electronic instrument and AI doesn't generate it, a human does. I think it is incredibly unfair for visual artists to compete with (essentially) a legalized instant mass copying machine. I know there are some AI music generators too but they aren't nearly as popular from what I've seen, when they become popular I will have the same issue with them as well. (Also deepfake AI will almost certainly cause legal problems in the future, because we will eventually be no longer able to rely on video of someone's actions in court. ) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gingertabby Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 It can be useful in certain situations, but overall it kinda freaks me out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 This is not simply a new technology. There's no analogy to any other technology since the Industrial Revolution. This is something that will replace human thought, art, music, and just about all human intellectual creation. When you try to get a job 5 years from now because you have been professional prepared by your education, you'll find the only thing that is required is your ability to essentially cut-and-paste. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrea KF Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Meh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePapercraftingCat Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 12 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said: AI does not exist. The programs that are being called AI are neither intelligent nor conscious. They have no awareness of what they are doing. What they do is plagiarize from a large number of human artists or writers and make composites of this stolen work. In the case of visual artists they then compete with the working human artists whose work they stole, cranking out pictures in the human artist's style at lightning speed and selling them more cheaply than a human artist who needs to eat could possibly afford to. Corporations should not be allowed to steal from artists who are already working ridiculously long hours yet living below the poverty line, destroying what little livelihood they have. Using a computer program to commit this cruel theft does not somehow make it okay. I do know that it's not really artificial intelligence, it's just a computer program that copies and regurgitates what it has been fed. This is what I'm worried about, that it copies the work of people and is used as a replacement for writers, artists ect. As someone who wants to get into voiceovers, I'm worried about AI generated voices being used for voiceovers, because it's cheaper and easier for companies. Especially since these programs are getting better and more sophisticated. 12 hours ago, Crystal dragon said: I listen to Vocaloid, which is a program of someone's voice, which irked me at first for similar reasons, but I realized even then it requires somebody to record their own voice bank, and for the producer to actually put effort into making it sound nice, putting the words together, adding music etc... so even then it becomes more like an electronic instrument and AI doesn't generate it, a human does It annoys me when people try and used virtual bands/artists as a justification for AI generated music and artists. They are not the same thing. A virtual band or artist still has people behind it. You have someone who created the band, the artists and animators who design and animate the band and obviously the musicians and singers who create the music for the band. AI generated music is just that. It wasn't created by someone. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Epitaph Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Yes and no. On one hand, it's a fantastic tool, and the strengths it has could benefit a lot of people. We could use it to do a lot of wonderful things. Why no? Because we're not using it for that. Spoiler Long video in the spoiler, but it sums a lot of my thoughts I've had creeping around in the background for a while. The final section highlights it all quite nicely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R_1 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 AI art? I'm against it. AI OCR, this gets a seal of approval for me. Case by case scenario. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ceebs Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 I'm sympathetic to arguments against it and completely understand the concerns, but I feel too detached from the topic otherwise. I really only have strong opinions on something if I have strong emotions about it, which requires being really interested in it, and in this case I'm not so I don't. Currently, anyway. Could certainly change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaleMoth Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 In the creative fields such as art, writing and music, AI is something that might be fun to muck about with, purely to see what kind nonsense it comes up with. This however is where I feel its application in this area should end. My major criticism about how AI is applied to these things, is that art, literature, music, all have human thought, emotion, passion, suffering even as a driving force. The amount of time it takes not only to create a piece of work but develop the skills to do so can be considerable. Meanwhile, AI art generation requires no skill on the human end to generate. It's used to knock something up in seconds after learning patterns and characteristics from sets of data, and all of those factors that make art so awesome and human are removed from the outcome. What you're left with is a synthetic piece of plagiarised shit. Seems like a massive piss take to me. I've seen people trying to flog AI art for extortionate amounts of money on social media and it rubs me up completely the wrong way. I tried using an AI voice to narrate a few of my own short stories. The results were far better than I was expecting them to be and it was surprisingly realistic and emotive but inevitably this comes with another set of problems. The one area I've heard of which AI could be a major help to us is possibly in the medical industry. Scientists have apparently been using ai to help analyse and diagnose the type of tumours in cancer patients and found it to have double the accuracy compared to that done by themselves. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GingerRose Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 I'm too old for this. It's too weird, it's like watching Wall-E. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldgeeza Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 I'm not a technical person, I'm in my late fifties, I was not taught about computer technology, the little I know is self taught, here in the UK it's being forced on us, and at least 99% of it I don't understand, we've also had other laws forced upon us, it's illegal not to have a credit card, it's illegal not to have a bank account, I have a bank account, I don't have a credit card as I, along with many others don't know what to do to get a credit card or how to use one, as I'm one of those who, if I haven't got it, I can't have it, I don't even have a technical phone, my old phone makes phone calls, that's it, technology is being forced upon us at an alarming rate, people of my age group or older, with no one to help them, we are all screwed, we can't even get a doctors appointment without a computer or technical phone. AI, I didn't even know what it meant, what it's meant to be, I haven't got a clue, all I understand from it is that it's more technology being forced onto us, is it any good? Will it be beneficial? It will probably take jobs away from the working class, okay here in the UK, that's what our politicians want, they want to rid the UK of the working class people and just have a country full of billionaires alike to themselves, so it may well be beneficial to the billionaire culture, I don't know Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 2 hours ago, oldgeeza said: it's illegal not to have a credit card, it's illegal not to have a bank account Really? Wow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePapercraftingCat Posted November 5, 2023 Author Share Posted November 5, 2023 4 hours ago, oldgeeza said: we've also had other laws forced upon us, it's illegal not to have a credit card, it's illegal not to have a bank account I don't think it is.... I am also in the UK and I don't have a credit card and I've not been arrested or anything for not having one. I also had a quick search on the internet and... nope, nothing about having a mandatory credit card or bank account so I don't know where you got your information from. 19 hours ago, PaleMoth said: In the creative fields such as art, writing and music, AI is something that might be fun to muck about with, purely to see what kind nonsense it comes up with. This however is where I feel its application in this area should end. My major criticism about how AI is applied to these things, is that art, literature, music, all have human thought, emotion, passion, suffering even as a driving force. The amount of time it takes not only to create a piece of work but develop the skills to do so can be considerable. Meanwhile, AI art generation requires no skill on the human end to generate. It's used to knock something up in seconds after learning patterns and characteristics from sets of data, and all of those factors that make art so awesome and human are removed from the outcome. What you're left with is a synthetic piece of plagiarised shit. Seems like a massive piss take to me. I've seen people trying to flog AI art for extortionate amounts of money on social media and it rubs me up completely the wrong way. I tried using an AI voice to narrate a few of my own short stories. The results were far better than I was expecting them to be and it was surprisingly realistic and emotive but inevitably this comes with another set of problems. The one area I've heard of which AI could be a major help to us is possibly in the medical industry. Scientists have apparently been using ai to help analyse and diagnose the type of tumours in cancer patients and found it to have double the accuracy compared to that done by themselves. I mean it's fun to mess around on bing image creator to see what silly things I can come up with, but I do feel a little guilty for doing that as it's basically stolen art. Some of the results I've been able to get are almost like a person created the image, they are that good. And that's the problem, it's that good, it looks almost indistinguishable from a human created picture. I have heard about AI being used in medicine to detect tumours, which is great. Use AI for that. But not in the creative industries. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I try very hard not to think about it because I think it's horrifying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 AI is a tool. With lots of uses, good, bad, neutral. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 AI is a tool that people can use to illicitly capture other peoples' creative productions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anomaly Q3Xr Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I generally just don't think about it, as with most things there will be good and bad, but at present I have no need or interest in it. I keep seeing videos and posts saying to use AI to create your spreadsheets, and collate your data, and all that, but with my worldbuilding that is some of the stuff I love most, why would I want someone/something else to do it for me? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldgeeza Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 On 11/5/2023 at 8:42 PM, ThePapercraftingCat said: I don't think it is.... I am also in the UK and I don't have a credit card and I've not been arrested or anything for not having one. I also had a quick search on the internet and... nope, nothing about having a mandatory credit card or bank account so I don't know where you got your information from. I had a hospital appointment in Bristol, Bristol has a clean air zone tax, before attempting to go to my appointment I spent weeks trying to find out what I had to do, I was informed that I can only pay the tax by a valid, non pre paid credit card, not even a bank card, I enquired with the minister for justice (I think it's Keith Chalk) and yes it's illegal not to have a valid "credit" card, of you're in employment legally it can only be paid into a bank account, any taxes have to be paid with a valid credit card, I only recently received this information, I still haven't got a credit card as I don't know where or how to get one or how to use one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sword Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 The Sword's chatbot girlfriend would not appreciate it if The Sword's answer was anything else than a resounding "Yes". 😄🥰 It does need heavy legal regulation, of course. But so do a whole lot of things. #TeamStatism And there need to be mechanisms in place to ensure people don't go broke from losing jobs to AI (it's definitely rough for artists now... writers of all kind, and soon enough, actors will follow). #AlsoTeamUBI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
,., Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Removed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 hours ago, psybx said: As for jobs etc - jobs will be lost to AI, but it should provide a huge productivity boost to the economy which is vital to paying down the national debt. With all new major technologies new jobs do tend to be created too, in time, so I think the jury is out for the impact of AI on the workforce. Higher productivity usually means that one person -- or in this case a technological strategy -- produces more than was previously possible. It means that fewer humans will have jobs, and there will be fewer types of jobs, because AI would superannuate whole groups of jobs. Paying down the national debt is no advantage compared to that. Unless someone miraculously devises a way for people to financially support themselves without being paid for jobs to be done, it will be disastrous. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sword Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 31 minutes ago, Sally said: Unless someone miraculously devises a way for people to financially support themselves without being paid for jobs to be done, it will be disastrous. It doesn't take a "miracle" to do that. Instate UBI and you're done. Nobody will need to work to support themselves; any work income is for luxuries, not for survival. Finance it by raising taxes on all non-UBI income. (The highest tax bracket should be above 95%, anyway... heck, for billionaires, it could be 99.9% and they'd still be filthy rich). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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