Gender identity vs expression?

[krmnlg]

I was fairly sure I knew the difference between these terms

My definitions:

Gender identity: the way we want ppl to perceive us and how we perceive ourselfes (e.g you are are a boy and therefore want to be seen as as such)

Gender expression: the way you behave/dress etc to present our gender to the rest of the world. Which may or may not be comfirming to the stereotypes of ur gender. (E.g you fully ID as a boy and choose to conform to the roles of being a man, or you choose not to (by acting e.g more fem))

 

But I might be wrong.

 

I talked to an online person who's Agirl: being agender but still wanting to be seen as a girl as it makes them happy. So a person who says theyre a woman but still wants to be seen as a man, doesnt necessarily make her a non-woman?

Im really confused to how that works. They dont owe me an explanation ofc, but it makes me question my understanding of gender. 

 

The reason why I identify as enby is bcoz I dont like to be seen as my agab, and being seen as neither a man or a woman gives me happiness. But apparently, that doesnt need to mean anything? 

 

Sure, men can be feminine and women can be masculine and enbys dont have to be androgynous but why would you want to be seen as *a gender* (not presentation) you dont feel like you are?

Could someone perhaps explain?

 

[Guest]

I'm struggling with gender identity right now, because I want to be a woman and want people to see me as a woman, but that isn't my gender identity inside me, for my own sake. I just have no gender, or something, idk.. There's something there in my gender directory, but I don't really know what it is. 

 

but I still want to be seen as a woman. 

 

so does that mean I identify as a woman? it's weird. I feel like it does. but I don't know. 

 

this isn't a scientific, mathematic, predictable thing. We can't say, identity is this way for everyone because it isn't. Identity is more than just gender or hobbies or jobs or family. But when it isn't right, it can be something that causes problems . I was supposed to be a girl, and wasn't. Would I have found out about nonbinary, and identified as non binary, if I was born female? maybe. Maybe. Do I identify as nonbinary, or as a woman, as I am now? I'm not sure. They both fit ok. I just wish I didn't have to think about it.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 hour ago, krmnlg said:

I was fairly sure I knew the difference between these terms

My definitions:

Gender identity: the way we want ppl to perceive us and how we perceive ourselfes (e.g you are are a boy and therefore want to be seen as as such)

Gender expression: the way you behave/dress etc to present our gender to the rest of the world. Which may or may not be comfirming to the stereotypes of ur gender. (E.g you fully ID as a boy and choose to conform to the roles of being a man, or you choose not to (by acting e.g more fem))

 

But I might be wrong.

 

I talked to an online person who's Agirl: being agender but still wanting to be seen as a girl as it makes them happy. So a person who says theyre a woman but still wants to be seen as a man, doesnt necessarily make her a non-woman?

Im really confused to how that works. They dont owe me an explanation ofc, but it makes me question my understanding of gender. 

 

The reason why I identify as enby is bcoz I dont like to be seen as my agab, and being seen as neither a man or a woman gives me happiness. But apparently, that doesnt need to mean anything? 

 

Sure, men can be feminine and women can be masculine and enbys dont have to be androgynous but why would you want to be seen as *a gender* (not presentation) you dont feel like you are?

Could someone perhaps explain?

 

Being Non-binary doesn't mean being agender, it's included in it as an umbrella label though. It means not just being a man or not just being a woman. It could be both, it could be neither, or any kind of mix or range.

 

I don't know this person and maybe they have reasons to be seen a different way than they know themselves inside. Someone could id as a woman but have a masculine gender expression too though.
There's different ways to be so maybe we just don't understand exactly everything about them either.

 

But to add to what you said about gender identity, it's not about perception, it's about what we 'know' about ourselves inside, past perception, past beliefs we might have had (and why it can take a while to understand more about how we feel). Whether or not we want others to perceive us a way or another depends on a lot of things, people and society can be complex sometimes.

[Picklethewickle]

My view on it is that gender identity is who you are, and gender expression is what you choose to show people. These things don't have to match. Presentation does not change who you are.

 

A person may present a different gender than their identity for social reasons, such as feeling unsafe opening up about being transgendered, or fearing that gender diversity won't be accepted. A person could also be seeking the social positions or advantages of another gender: art history is full of women who pretended to be men in order to get their writing published, their paintings seen, and so on. They aren't non-women, they are women whose struggles under gender oppression led them to seek other means.

 

A person might be presenting not in the sense of wanting to be seen as a different gender, but in the sense of defying gender norms. Many people find gender stereotypes and gender expectations too restrictive, or even damaging. Engaging in behaviour or having an appearance that is associated with the opposite gender can serve as a means to challenge and escape those restrictions.

 

A person may present as a gender they don't have because they like the social or psychological associations that are placed on that gender; for example, the Agirl you mentioned may not feel like a woman but may like the way other people perceive women.

 

A person who experiences fluidity or flucuations in their gender may present differently on different days, depending on their feelings at the time. That same person may just as readily present the same every day, because they don't consider appearance to be an important part of identity. An outsider might look at that and say "How can you be fluid? You look like a (specific gender) every day. Surely that means you are that gender." It doesn't make that fluid person a specific gender, it just means that people perceive them as that gender.