Update on the slimeballs

[Anthracite_Impreza]

It's been a long time since I posted anything about the snails, so here's the crew as they are today. We've lost a few oldies since I last did one of these; I can't remember exactly who has died since then, but I would hazard a guess that they would be Adrastea, Taygete and Dione. RIP 💔

 

For those who don't know me I keep Cepaea nemoralis aka. brown-lipped or grove snails. They are a fairly small species of helicidae (think garden snails, Cornu aspersum) snail native to Europe and parts of Asia, though they have been introduced to North America (where they are doing very well for themselves). They are a mostly temperate species though they can cope with cold weather by hibernating, and live in grassland, hedgerows, woodland/forest and mixed terrain. They are found less in urban areas than the common garden snail. They are obligate land-lung breathers, so they will drown in water or if their breathing hole is covered too long. They enjoy climbing, but don't go more than a metre or so off the ground, and usually sleep in the leaf litter, under wood, rocks, or man-made structures. In hot weather they do sometimes sleep higher up where it's cooler.

 

This species is highly polymorphic (one species, many different colour morphs) - they can be found in solid yellow, peach, rose, red-orange and brown (in many shades), can have one to five bands which can be clean and neat, spread-banded (the stripe takes up most of the shell), interrupted banded, be full or faded pigment (erythristic, to biologists) and even have different coloured stripes on the same snail in a seemingly endless variety of ways. Their feet also vary. They can be "black" based or "red" based (the black is usually grey, the reds have a brownish tint), and have an equally amazing level of variation, even down to the edging of their foot from underneath (I can identify some of my snails solely by their feet, as they snail up the wall). 

 

Brown lips are hermaphroditic, but cannot self fertilise unlike some species. Before they mate they do a mating dance, which involves a lot of snailing back and forth, rearing up at each other, firing love darts (darts of calcium that increase the chance their sperm will fertilise) and eventually, the sex part. Snail sex is very serene and, honestly, quite cute. They just snuggle next to each other for a few hours and they're done. This species can store sperm and most clutches have the DNA from three parents - one lot of eggs, two lots of sperm. This increases genetic variation, because snails have absolutely no compunction breeding with their relatives and don't tend to roam far, so they're always likely to mate with a part-relative in the wild.

 

Without further ado, here are the adults (in case you're unaware all my snails are named after moons. Yes there is a moon called Weywot, google it):

 

Callisto (yellow, single banded) is probably the oldest snail in the tank right now, and comes from the furthest afield - Spurn Point in Hull. I found him as a baby and raised him, and he has been a very prolific breeder; I suspect related to every non-wild snail in the tank by now. He is also one of the smallest and quite shy, or private, I'm not sure how he feels about that.

 

Iapetus (peach, multibanded) is the contender for oldest and certainly second if not. I found him behind a shed near my egg donor's house, already an adult, a good few years ago, but he's still going strong! He's the one who gives the least shits, the naughty one, the one who will snail off if you don't watch him. He's also usually one of the first up when food is available.

 

Nix (solid peach) is a couple of years old now, found in the wild near a railway line and a pretty rare morph to find. He is a bit of a dork, he sleeps (like the late Adrastea and Dione did) with his head out and at an angle, regularly falls off things because of that, but appears not to care. He also likes to sit and contemplate life a lot, and the other snails know not to disturb him!

 

Praxidike (red-brown, interrupted banding/solid?) is the last wild "caught" snail in the tank, and the youngest. He was almost full grown when I found him on a wall, but not quite, so is about 1 1/2 years old now. He's a lazy bugger, he rarely emerges from his shell, but since he's always been like that I suspect it's just part of his character.

 

Lysithea (peach, multibanded) is a few years old now and was raised by me. He's very active and enjoys sitting on other snails' shells so he can have a ride, as well as being almost as naughty as Iaepetus. He's a snuggler, you rarely find him sleeping alone, and since he's a smol he uses that to his advantage.

 

Telesto (peach, red banded) is one of the contenders for biggest snail, is a few years old, and is the greedy one of the tank. If food appears, he is usually the first to it, and usually the last off it too. He is another snuggler, but has a habit for falling off things just like Nix. Usually though he just stays there and goes back to sleep again, if he even noticed in the first place!

 

Sinope (peach, single banded) is of a similar age to Telesto, though different clutch, and is just a bit smaller. He is also one of the greedy ones, though often beaten by Telesto. He's a bit more adventurous and will snail around even without the lure of food, also snuggling to sleep, though he tends to prefer the moss than the roof.

 

Himalia (solid rose) is the other contender for biggest snail, and one of the three newest siblings, all a year old. He's quite a quiet snail, a little more reserved than his clutch-mates, but not shy; he has no issues getting himself to the food if he wants it.

 

Erriapus (red-orange-pink faded/interrupted banded) is the second largest of the three siblings, the most active and mated with his probable parent the very day I introduced them ._. He is very much the snail version of I do what I want.

 

Weywot (rose multibanded) is probably the smallest snail in the tank, but that does not bother him at all. He's lively, curious and is always quick to find food, and he has a "siamese" eyestalk which I suspect may be a form of chimaerism. It's certainly useful for quick identification, because I have never seen anything like it anywhere on the internet, let alone my own snail tank!

 

Snail life:

Spoiler

Food doubles up as bedding for snails.

 

"Beat him for once!"

 

"Does this moss smell funny to you?"

 

Sometimes, snails are giraffes.

 

"I think this moss suits me, don't you think?"

 

"Why did you wake me up without at least having some lettuce?"

 

The sibs.

 

I think we all know this feeling.

 

"I did it, I found the exit!"

 

As suggested, and most of you know, I do indeed raise snails too, usually a clutch a year depending on how things go. This year it will be two due to an "accident", so the younglings I currently have are summed up nicely by this pic: 

Yesterday I released the smallest third because they were too small to go in the big boy tank, but the biggest ones were getting cramped in the baby tank, so I have 22 left and they are much happier in the four times bigger growing up tank (which I don't have a good photo of cos of the lighting yesterday). I ended up being naughty and keeping three from the last clutch, so who knows this time 🤦‍♂️

 

And finally, some FAQs! I love talking about snails, so I am happy to ramble about them all day, but these are the questions I get most:

Spoiler

How long have you had snails?
I would hazard a guess of 7 years.

How long do they live?
Almost all of mine have lived to around 5. I've heard reports of them living to 7, but never had anyone confirm that, so I would guess 5 is average and 7 is very old.

How long do they take to grow?
To adult size they take about a year, they're pretty slow growing for inverts. From what I have seen they tend to start breeding not long after this and are pretty randy in their prime, then start to lose interest. Some don't breed at all when they get older, others continue to be randy til their dying day.

What do snail eggs look like?
When first laid, bright white and near perfectly spherical; as they develop they turn cream. They're a few mil in diameter.

How many do they lay?
Between 30 and 50 usually, with most hatching. They bury their heads in the soil an inch or so and lay them all at once; it usually takes them about 12 hours because they tend to snooze while they're at it. Then they get themselves back up (which is quite impressive with no limbs) and leave them.

How long do they take to hatch?
Depending on temperature, 2-3 weeks, though the snaillets spend a few days to a week underground where they eat their eggshells and any non-viable eggs, and soil, for the calcium, nutrients and bacteria they need to digest food. They also wait for their little shells to harden in this time (they are born with shells, though at this stage they are colourless and see-through).

 

If they can be so randy, why don't you have a million by now?
When snail eggs are first laid, they are an undeveloped blob of cells, so I take them out while they're still white and freeze them for a few days (yes in our freezer there are sometimes snail eggs, it's a snail keeper thing), defrost them, and then I sprinkle them outside to feed other wildlife. When I raise a clutch and they are grown up, I release most into a suitable environment (they are native, they will do absolutely no harm. In fact they're introducing fresh genes into wild populations). Sometimes I'm too late and they are too developed for me to ethically freeze, so I keep them until they have emerged into the world, give them a head start then release (though in some cases I keep them cos snails).

 

In non-native species this is obviously illegal, so you have to be very on top of egg freezing. Rehoming exotic snails isn't easy, and they will have a lot of babies.

What do they eat?
This species prefers senescent vegetation, ie. stuff that is already on its way out. In the wild they eat decaying leaves, moss, lichen, fungi and algae/micro-vegetation, though they will eat dead animals if they come across them. For calcium and bacteria they tend to eat soil, rasp at rocks, and bones. They don't drink, they get all their water from their food and soaking it in through soil and damp conditions.

I feed mine wild food when I can, in addition to salad leaves, broccoli, carrot, cucumber, sweet tatie, baby corn, aubergine, tomatoes, fish flakes and treats like apple, pear and melon. They always have cuttlefish bone to rasp on, though I am trying to find vegan alternatives for their protein and calcium, but I won't waste what I've already got in, nor will I jeopardise my creatures' health.

 

A suitable gut biota is essential to snails because otherwise they can't digest their food and will starve no matter how much they eat. When keeping snails you can't be overly clean, you have to encourage a microbiome in their tank much like fish tanks, though of course food and poop needs to be taken out regularly. It goes without saying handwashing and disinfecting non-snail surfaces and equipment is essential every time they come into contact with snaily things!

Can you catch diseases from them?
Like any pet they carry bacteria and viruses, so yes, you could, but since humans are mammals and snails are molluscs there are very few specific diseases that affect such distant groups. There is however a very very small chance they can carry germs that cause meningitis in some, though this is a freak occurrence in general. Proper hygiene will eliminate almost all risk.

Can they catch diseases from people?
I'm unaware of any diseases passed from humans to snails, though I'm sure there will be. Washing hands before touching snails is just as important as after, not only for disease risk, but the bigger danger of toxic chemicals transferring. Snails are very sensitive to these, especially being so small.

Are they really as slow as people think?
Not when there's food around, no! Snails are not the quickest of creatures, I grant you, but they can "sprint" if they want to (if they feel stressed, or you know, food). Babies are rapid, a lot faster for their size than adults. They make up for their bursts of speed by spending most of the time fast asleep.

Do they have personalities, really?
Ask any snail keeper and they will all give you a resounding yes. Snails absolutely have personalities, they're all different, and after a while you just know who's gonna be up to mischief dragging moss all over, first to the food, snuggled up with other snails, hiding in the moss, who's just fell off the stick, how everyone sleeps, how much everyone eats, who's the most confident and who's timid, who climbs over their tankmates as though they need a taxi everywhere, the randiest, greediest, laziest, most adventurous, who sits and contemplates life and who has the most wiggly eyestalks. They are so different you really do just get to know them all like any mammalian pet.

 

Do they bond?

I can't tell you what snails think and feel, but they certainly interact and seek each other out. They will often sleep next to each other and are generally very peaceful and quite happy to sit next to each other while eating or just chilling (though they are clumsy and often end up bumping eyestalks). I would never keep a solitary snail, I always aim for a decent sized group; it gives them company and something to do.

 

Do they bond with people? Depends what you mean. They certainly recognise individuals by their smell, and once they've established you aren't a threat and indeed, are associated with food, they become perfectly comfortable with your presence. They learn to trust, and that is a privilege from such a tiny, prey animal.

 

Whether they love or feel affection... I can't speak for snails, but there's no reason they couldn't, even if not in a form we're used to.

 

Do they make good pets?

I liken snails to keeping fish. They are not a pet that is going to run up to you (it would take them a while at any rate) when you come in, you can't cuddle them, you can't even be sure whether they care about you, but they are still loveable in their own way. They shouldn't be handled too much, they take a fair amount of upkeep in regards to egg removal, keeping on top of leaf/stick decay, misting requirements, and they require specialist knowledge due to not being a commonly kept creature, and you can't really take them to the vets if they're ill, but if you love them, they are entirely worth it.

Why snails though?
I just love snails, I don't really have an explanation. This species is my favourite and I am blessed with the little beasts who live with me 💚
 

 

🐌

[Mrs Telecaster-to-be]

I love how much you love your snails, and they have great names.  I still have a handful of snail pics on my camera roll that you sent me in a PM, haha. They're adorable.

 

3 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Do they have personalities, really?
Ask any snail keeper and they will all give you a resounding yes.

This is my favourite bit of information from your whole post.

 

4 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Do they make good pets?

I liken snails to keeping fish.

Good to know. I'm great at looking after fish... and not really anything else lol. Well besides my tarantula. I'm bad with pets that need loads of attention. Honestly you make me want snails myself...

[Purple Red Panda]

Pretty snails are pretty 💜🐌

[Blue eyes white dragon]

Awwwwww how cute!!!! If we go to Ruidoso in the summer, my brothers and I catch snails and keep them for a couple of days. They are so fun!!

[Mrs Telecaster-to-be]

Oh I think I mentioned before... can't quite remember... when I go for a walk on the trails along the lake here, if it's been raining, there are always loads of snails on the footpath. I've spent inordinate amounts of time rescuing as many of them as I can and moving them to safety. I've actually cried seeing ones who've met an unpleasant fate. 😕

[Morays]

6 minutes ago, CBC said:

Oh I think I mentioned before... can't quite remember... when I go for a walk on the trails along the lake here, if it's been raining, there are always loads of snails on the footpath. I've spent inordinate amounts of time rescuing as many of them as I can and moving them to safety. I've actually cried seeing ones who've met an unpleasant fate. 😕

I do this where I live, but with salamanders -- we get lots of the juveniles coming out onto paths and roads after every rain. I always do my best to get them out of harm's way and back into the underbrush.

 

I actually remember one time a lady in her car pulled over and asked if I was okay. I assured her I was fine, and she said, "are you sure? You were all bent over." I didn't have the heart to tell her I was bent over so as to rescue a slug 😆

[Black Tourmaline]

❤️ ❤️ ❤️ kawaii   ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ 

[LeChat]

Wow! You sure know a lot about snails!

 

I've never come across anyone with snails as pets, before (also, I don't think I've come across any snails, in real life; I only remember seeing worms), so it's fascinating, for me, to see how small they are (I think, from picture book drawings, I thought they'd be a lot bigger, like the size of a person's palm/hand) and their shells. I didn't know their shells could be colorful, a bit like seashells!

[Anthracite_Impreza]

46 minutes ago, CBC said:

I love how much you love your snails, and they have great names.  I still have a handful of snail pics on my camera roll that you sent me in a PM, haha. They're adorable.

Feel free to save any of these if you want  And I do, I wuv my squishy bums, gross and messy as they are 💚

 

Quote

This is my favourite bit of information from your whole post.

Tis true, anyone who says otherwise has never spent any time with snails.

 

Quote

Good to know. I'm great at looking after fish... and not really anything else lol. Well besides my tarantula. I'm bad with pets that need loads of attention. Honestly you make me want snails myself...

Unfortunately I think it would be illegal to keep this species in Canada because they're "invasive". I'm not sure what species you do have over there, though things like Giant African Land Snails might be an option, but honestly I think they're banned as pets in the US at least.

 

They're a pet that is all or nothing really. You do have to clean them out and de-egg them roughly once a week/fortnight (during breeding season at least), during which time I also give them all a check over for mites, injuries, illnesses etc. but they only really need feeding every few days, and depending on the species misting about the same rate up to once a day. Most of the time you can leave them and they're perfectly fine; in fact, it's better to leave them alone most of the time. Snails naturally spend a lot of time asleep or chilling (they have the most energy-taxing form of locomotion ever evolved, fun fact), so disrupting them too much is stressful and unhealthy for them.

 

39 minutes ago, CBC said:

Oh I think I mentioned before... can't quite remember... when I go for a walk on the trails along the lake here, if it's been raining, there are always loads of snails on the footpath. I've spent inordinate amounts of time rescuing as many of them as I can and moving them to safety. I've actually cried seeing ones who've met an unpleasant fate. 😕

 

29 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

I do this where I live, but with salamanders -- we get lots of the juveniles coming out onto paths and roads after every rain. I always do my best to get them out of harm's way and back into the underbrush.

 

I actually remember one time a lady in her car pulled over and asked if I was okay. I assured her I was fine, and she said, "are you sure? You were all bent over." I didn't have the heart to tell her I was bent over so as to rescue a slug 😆

I am exactly the same  I don't think I've ever come across a salamander, in fact I'm not sure we have them. We have newts, but they're very endangered and I've never seen one.

 

22 minutes ago, LeChat said:

Wow! You sure know a lot about snails!

 

I've never come across anyone with snails as pets, before (also, I don't think I've come across any snails, in real life; I only remember seeing worms), so it's fascinating, for me, to see how small they are (I think, from picture book drawings, I thought they'd be a lot bigger, like the size of a person's palm/hand) and their shells. I didn't know their shells could be colorful, a bit like seashells!

I am a bit of a snail dork :x Where do you live you never come across snails?!

 

But yes they're molluscs, so in the same family as sea snails, limpets, clams, oysters, whelks, sea slugs and other shelled (even slugs have shells, but they're very small and hidden under their fatty hump), legless creatures; being colourful is something of a family trait (may I introduce sea slugs). C. nemoralis are unusual for temperate land snails in the sheer variety and brightness of their patterns though, though they do blend in well in the wild (which I can attest to from personal experience).

ETA: And most species of snail are actually very small, smaller than the ones I have. Large snails are not the norm.

[Morays]

9 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I am exactly the same  I don't think I've ever come across a salamander, in fact I'm not sure we have them. We have newts, but they're very endangered and I've never seen one.

The ones we have in our neck of the woods look like this:

 

\

 

They're called red efts -- they're the juvenile stage of the eastern red-spotted newt. The adults live and mate in the water, and that's where the eggs hatch, but they spend the first two or three years of their life on land. Thankfully, their color makes them easy to spot on the pavement.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

I found snails cool. I gathered some up at some point and kept them in a big transparent enclosure (not stuck together, plenty of air can flow), with greenery added and all. It was fun to watch them. But at one point (much later) one snail was eating another one, and I'm not sure why, I don't know if that's normal or if it was sick/dying or what. But I decided to free them into the wild after that cuz I felt I just 't maybe didn't know how to take care of them, and they probably had plenty of life left in them.

 

[Acing It]

I never thought I'd say this, since the blighters tend to eat most things I plant in my garden (you'll be happy to know I never kill them but catch them and release them a fair distance away where they find plenty of nourishment) but I loved reading every bit of this and find out they have personalities. 🙂

[LeChat]

28 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

...Where do you live you never come across snails?!

 

..(may I introduce sea slugs)...

...mostly suburbs, for most of my life...I don't know if the lack of a huge amount of trees might have something to do with it (also, in the rural area I live in, now, they're cutting a lot more of the forest trees, to make way for more homes (that are developed to resemble suburban neighborhoods and yards, without many trees/vegetation) or whether residents' dogs might've scared them away from settling in suburban or rural resident's backyards.

 

Hmm...now that I think about it, there are a lot of birds around, every day, and I've just read that they eat snails, so, perhaps, that might be the reason why I don't see snails around.

 

Also, when I lived in Colorado, the weather was colder, drier, windier, and with snow--which, I'd imagine, wouldn't be the best environment for snails.

 

I'd guess the snails might be up in the mountains, in my area, among all of the plenty of trees.

 

Wow! Those sea slugs are so colorful!

[Acerna]

1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

who has the most wiggly eyestalks

Well, who in your group does? 

[ben8884]

I'm glad your snails are doing well! I never thought that snails would have personalities but it makes sense.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

29 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

They're called red efts -- they're the juvenile stage of the eastern red-spotted newt. The adults live and mate in the water, and that's where the eggs hatch, but they spend the first two or three years of their life on land. Thankfully, their color makes them easy to spot on the pavement.

Ok they're adorable. I'm not an amphibian guy in general but, yeah, they're very cute. Are they toxic, is that why they're so bright?

 

26 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I found snails cool. I gathered some up at some point and kept them in a big transparent enclosure (not stuck together, plenty of air can flow), with greenery added and all. It was fun to watch them. But at one point (much later) one snail was eating another one, and I'm not sure why, I don't know if that's normal or if it was sick/dying or what. But I decided to free them into the wild after that cuz I felt I just 't maybe didn't know how to take care of them, and they probably had plenty of life left in them.

I have heard before of someone who keeps regular garden snails (Cornu aspersum), where they thought one of their snails attacked and killed another. Now, most land snails are 90% herbivorous, but if they come across a dead insect or even something bigger, they will eat it. It's likely their other snail had recently died and their "attacking" snail, with a sense of smell as good as a dog's, sensed that and started eating them before the owner smelt the death (dead snails smell really really horrible). It's a bit grim, but it's nature. Herbivorous snails do not go out of their way to harm others, they're very peaceful, and they can also retract into their shell if they're upset, so it's extremely unlikely they would even manage to damage each other, let alone kill each other. That is almost certainly what happened with yours too.

 

20 minutes ago, Acing It said:

I never thought I'd say this, since the blighters tend to eat most things I plant in my garden (you'll be happy to know I never kill them but catch them and release them a fair distance away where they find plenty of nourishment) but I loved reading every bit of this and find out they have personalities. 🙂

I am glad because, you know, they're snails, they're just looking for noms; they don't understand the concept of ownership or farming  Taking them more than ten metres away is pretty effective though, cos they don't exactly wander far (or fast). I'm glad you enjoyed reading, and yes every snail is a little individual 💙

 

19 minutes ago, LeChat said:

...mostly suburbs, for most of my life...I don't know if the lack of a huge amount of trees might have something to do with it (also, in the rural area I live in, now, they're cutting a lot more of the forest trees, to make way for more homes (that are developed to resemble suburban neighborhoods and yards, without many trees/vegetation) or whether residents' dogs might've scared them away from settling in suburban or rural resident's backyards.

 

Hmm...now that I think about it, there are a lot of birds around, every day, and I've just read that they eat snails, so, perhaps, that might be the reason why I don't see snails around.

 

Also, when I lived in Colorado, the weather was colder, drier, windier, and with snow--which, I'd imagine, wouldn't be the best environment for snails.

 

I'd guess the snails might be up in the mountains, in my area, among all of the plenty of trees.

 

Wow! Those sea slugs are so colorful!

Tbh, it's probably a combination of the environment not being great for snails, the climate (if it's dry or cold, less snails) and the fact you aren't looking for them. They're nocturnal for the most part, they only come out in wet weather and since they're prey animals they're very good at hiding, so unless you're actually paying attention they're easy to miss.

 

3 minutes ago, Acerna said:

Well, who in your group does? 

It used to be Dione, he was the champion eyestalk wiggler and still retains that title, but he died last year 💔 Nowadays I would say Nix, especially when he's excited (which is usually at feeding time), though Telesto and Sinope have such long eyestalks (they're almost certainly half-siblings) they do look like they're directing air traffic when they wiggle them. They're also related to the late Tethys, who also used to direct air traffic 💙

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 minute ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

 

I have heard before of someone who keeps regular garden snails (Cornu aspersum), where they thought one of their snails attacked and killed another. Now, most land snails are 90% herbivorous, but if they come across a dead insect or even something bigger, they will eat it. It's likely their other snail had recently died and their "attacking" snail, with a sense of smell as good as a dog's, sensed that and started eating them before the owner smelt the death (dead snails smell really really horrible). It's a bit grim, but it's nature. Herbivorous snails do not go out of their way to harm others, they're very peaceful, and they can also retract into their shell if they're upset, so it's extremely unlikely they would even manage to damage each other, let alone kill each other. That is almost certainly what happened with yours too.

 

That's kindof what I thought. But it was still alive, so that's what confused me. I think it ate part of its shell too which caused problems. I'm not sure exactly what or why it happened, but my guess is that it was maybe dying and the other snail smelled it. Don't really know 😕

Pretty sure they were regular garden snails, that's where we picked them from XD.

[Sea Lemon]

I love your snails! Thank you for the update! 🐌💕

[Anthracite_Impreza]

52 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

That's kindof what I thought. But it was still alive, so that's what confused me. I think it ate part of its shell too which caused problems. I'm not sure exactly what or why it happened, but my guess is that it was maybe dying and the other snail smelled it. Don't really know 😕

Pretty sure they were regular garden snails, that's where we picked them from XD.

This is what we call "garden snail", but there are so many species commonly called "garden snail", I always like to specify I mean Cornu aspersum.

Spoiler

 

This is the only species I've heard doing this sort of thing (I'm sure others do it, these are just the most well known) and they are more opportunistic/omnivorous than the species I keep, so I suspect that has something to do with it. A healthy snail would retract or retaliate if it was attacked, and the layer of slime on a snail forms a protective barrier against minor scrapes (snails have no teeth, they have a radula, which is basically a tongue with little spikes on it), so if a snail is getting eaten by another it is definitely either dead or very much on its way out.

[Morays]

4 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Ok they're adorable. I'm not an amphibian guy in general but, yeah, they're very cute. Are they toxic, is that why they're so bright?

I presume so! Though they're only poisonous to eat -- they're harmless to touch.

[Unleash the Echidnas]

8 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I don't think I've ever come across a salamander, in fact I'm not sure we have them.

Taxonomically, salamanders are suborders Cryptobranchoidea and Salamandroidea of order Urodela, the latter of which contains family Salamandridae. Subfamily Pleurodelinae of the Salamandridae is newts. So all newts are salamanders but most salamanders aren't newts.

 

Some quick googling is suggesting there are no extant non-newt salamanders species native to the British Isles, though apparently newts are sometimes called as salamanders in Ireland. There are also some fossil salamander species.

 

 

7 hours ago, LeChat said:

Also, when I lived in Colorado, the weather was colder, drier, windier, and with snow--which, I'd imagine, wouldn't be the best environment for snails.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect many native species beyond riparian and aquatic habitats. Googling also gives me A Field Guide to the Freshwater Molluscs of Colorado, including Acroloxus coloradensis named for the state, and a citizen science project looking for land snails.

 

7 hours ago, LeChat said:

I don't know if the lack of a huge amount of trees might have something to do with it

It's plausible. Removal of mature forest increases the amount of light reaching the ground, raising temperatures, increasing evaporation, and presumably making life harder for gastropods. Removal also increases windspeeds below where the tree canopy used to be, also increasing evaporation.

 

I don't know offhand of any studies looking at snail responses to timber harvest but there's a zillion of them for a broad range of non-tree vegetation species, birds, small rodents, amphibians, and insects as well as some mark-recapture and tracking studies for larger vertebrates. So somebody probably looked at snails too.

 

The bird studies I've looked at tend to show more birds in open habitats compared to closed forests. So, depending on the bird species responses, there might be shifts in predation intensity. Changes in vegetation might also change snail detectability, resulting in greater or lesser predation success if there are snail-eating birds around. Similar would apply for other snail predators.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

6 minutes ago, Unleash the Echidnas said:

Taxonomically, salamanders are suborders Cryptobranchoidea and Salamandroidea of order Urodela, the latter of which contains family Salamandroidea. Subfamily Pleurodelinae of the Salamandroidea is newts. So all newts are salamanders but most salamanders aren't newts.

 

Some quick googling is suggesting there are no extant non-newt salamanders species native to the British Isles, though apparently newts are sometimes called as salamanders in Ireland. There are also some fossil salamander species.

I did not know that, thank you for educating me  There are things called salamanders in English heraldry (I did heraldry for my art gcse) but they're... not very realistic. They're associated with fire for a start 🤦‍♂️

[Unleash the Echidnas]

12 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

They're associated with fire for a start

I'm not sure where that comes from, though I think it goes back to at least some of the Greek writers. Maybe it's derived from earth-air-water-fire elemental theory, perhaps it's just being fanciful with the meaning of the type taxa (Salamandra salamandra) in Greek.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

1 hour ago, Unleash the Echidnas said:

I'm not sure where that comes from, though I think it goes back to at least some of the Greek writers. Maybe it's derived from earth-air-water-fire elemental theory, perhaps it's just being fanciful with the meaning of the type taxa (Salamandra salamandra) in Greek.

I think it's the association with dragons. They were basically thought of as little dragons from what I remember.

 

Interestingly (for me anyway) snails are believed to be the origin of Cupid's arrow, because of their love darts.

[Karst]

I recently ended up getting a pet snail by rescuing it off a path during a rainstorm- the little guy would have gotten squashed otherwise.  I'm keeping it in one of those mini-tanks they sell for betta fish, with some pebbles and moss.  I'm not 100% sure what species it is.

 

Science fact: Octopuses and squid (cephalopods) are actually adjacent to snails on the taxonomic tree.  They're generally considered to be the smartest invertebrates by biologists, which makes me wonder about snails in that regard.

 

Here's a video of an octo opening a jar to get food:

 

 

[Morays]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:23 PM, Unleash the Echidnas said:

I'm not sure where that comes from, though I think it goes back to at least some of the Greek writers. Maybe it's derived from earth-air-water-fire elemental theory, perhaps it's just being fanciful with the meaning of the type taxa (Salamandra salamandra) in Greek.

This could be totally apocryphal, but I've heard that it was common for salamanders to discreetly live undetected in people's wood piles, only to be spotted once the logs were dumped in the fireplace and the salamanders jumped out of the flames. This purportedly led to a widespread belief in early/medieval Europe that the salamanders were hatching out of the flames, perhaps as the juvenile form of a dragon, and they became associated with fire as a result.

 

I don't have a citation for this, though, as it's been too long since I first read about it, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

This could be totally apocryphal, but I've heard that it was common for salamanders to discreetly live undetected in people's wood piles, only to be spotted once the logs were dumped in the fireplace and the salamanders jumped out of the flames. This purportedly led to a widespread belief in early/medieval Europe that the salamanders were hatching out of the flames, perhaps as the juvenile form of a dragon, and they became associated with fire as a result.

 

I don't have a citation for this, though, as it's been too long since I first read about it, so take it with a grain of salt.

Many species of salamanders do commonly take refuge and hibernate in log piles, so this kind of makes sense. It's a nice story anyway. I've always found it funny that a type of amphibian should be associated with fire.

[Unleash the Echidnas]

Speaking as someone who's lived with wood heat on occasion and therefore spent plenty of time cutting wood, splitting rounds, and bringing in wood I'm skeptical about woodpile salamanders making it all the way to the fireplace. Maybe if their instinct is to hunker down when a round or split log is moved and the wood has rot or other hollows, particularly rough bark, or thick moss to hide in. If it's something that actually happened I suspect it's more likely one or a few rare occurrences getting around. Makes a good story, after all.

 

Another possibility might be more extended thinking, such as associating wood with fire, salamanders with wood, and therefore salamanders with fire.

 

I tried checking about fire and snails and the internet is all Platymma tweediei.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Unleash the Echidnas said:

Speaking as someone who's lived with wood heat on occasion and therefore spent plenty of time cutting wood, splitting rounds, and bringing in wood I'm skeptical about woodpile salamanders making it all the way to the fireplace. Maybe if their instinct is to hunker down when a round or split log is moved and the wood has root or other hollows, particularly rough bark, or thick moss to hide in. If it's something that actually happened I suspect it's more likely one or a few rare occurrences getting around. Makes a good story, after all.

 

Another possibility might be more extended thinking, such as associating wood with fire, salamanders with wood, and therefore salamanders with fire.

 

I tried checking about fire and snails and the internet is all Platymma tweediei.

relevant anecdote: I once found a toad in the firewood bucket in my previous home, it must have been clinging to one of the logs for sheer life when I carried it inside. I'm amazed I didn't notice it, it wasn't small!

[Karst]

5 hours ago, SocialMorays said:

This could be totally apocryphal, but I've heard that it was common for salamanders to discreetly live undetected in people's wood piles, only to be spotted once the logs were dumped in the fireplace and the salamanders jumped out of the flames. This purportedly led to a widespread belief in early/medieval Europe that the salamanders were hatching out of the flames, perhaps as the juvenile form of a dragon, and they became associated with fire as a result.

 

I don't have a citation for this, though, as it's been too long since I first read about it, so take it with a grain of salt.

This is an olm.

 

 

They live in caves in eastern Europe, and people used to think that they were a sort of tadpole form of dragons.  Looking at them, it's honestly pretty understandable to me that someone would come to that conclusion.