I don't feel very comfortable here anymore...

[DannyKitty]

This is supposed to be a place for asexuals to interact and feel safe, about doing so, right? So why can't I or my girlfriend post any rants about the way the sexual trolls treat us without getting the "I was coming in here prepared to defend sexuals" or "they're just ignorant and you insulted them first.." from a sexual member.... Personally I find that quite insulting because it feels like my situation is being denied when people say things like those.

What are your thoughts on this? Are sexuals really as perfect as some members here (esp. the sexual members) seem to think they are? Should I go to hell like someone said to me in this post? (well, that's what "condemn" means)

I don't think all sexuals are bad--some of my best friends are sexuals, by the way.

It's been nice finding out I wasn't alone, and it's been nice making a couple friends here and finding my girlfriend here, but I'm afraid part of the reason I wanted to be on this site was to be around like-minded people, and sadly that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. :cry: Especially if I am being put down by people who run this site and are sexual (I am strongly against people who don't fit the topic of a site like this being an admin.) I'm afraid that if I can't rant here and be understood that I don't fit in here anymore, even though I am definitely asexual. :(

[deladangerous]

Don't expect to get the kind of response you'd expect, saying this sort of thing.

I don't think anybody's perfect. I don't think anybody on here thinks anybody's perfect. I think that a lot of sexuals and asexuals alike on this site are tired of asexual elitism (see the thread in the Hot Box if you don't understand why).... So every time somebody makes a thread with an intent just to laugh at how terrible sexuals are, yeah, people are gonna come in and say "wait a second, that's not right."

Or at least, some people are bound to disagree with some part of it.

There's thousands of members on here, and one can't expect everyone to agree on everything at all times. People who can't open their minds enough to understand that different people believe different things are gonna have a bit of a problem moving through this forum, and this world.

Also, Hallucigenia's not an admin. I think it's really not fair to be discriminatory enough to say sexuals can't do the job of an admin. C'mon, they're not that extremely biased, and you know it.

Nothing personal against you, I think it's just time to sit down with a nice cup of hot cocoa and pet a cat or something. It's gonna be okay.

[McBuh]

A lot of people feel insulted at times on this, or any message board. At least, I know, I do.

No reason to feel out of place in general, or that you should leave.

[DannyKitty]

Don't expect to get the kind of response you'd expect, saying this sort of thing.

I expect flames.

I don't think anybody's perfect. I don't think anybody on here thinks anybody's perfect. I think that a lot of sexuals and asexuals alike on this site are tired of asexual elitism (see the thread in the Hot Box if you don't understand why).... So every time somebody makes a thread with an intent just to laugh at how terrible sexuals are, yeah, people are gonna come in and say "wait a second, that's not right."

I clarified my post in that thread before you posted this: I wasn't laughing at sexuals--I was laughing at how the thread got out of hand.

Or at least, some people are bound to disagree with some part of it.

I expect that, but using the word "condemn" in a reply to it is pretty nasty since it means "to send to hell".

There's thousands of members on here, and one can't expect everyone to agree on everything at all times. People who can't open their minds enough to understand that different people believe different things are gonna have a bit of a problem moving through this forum, and this world.

I do NOT expect everybody to agree with me. HOWEVER, some of the replies hurt my feelings, especially coming from sexuals who do NOT know what I'm going through.

Also, Hallucigenia's not an admin. I think it's really not fair to be discriminatory enough to say sexuals can't do the job of an admin. C'mon, they're not that extremely biased, and you know it.

Leaders of communities should represent the community as a whole, and having sexuals leading this site makes me quite uncomfortable. I wouldn't run a Deaf community site (but would participate in it) because I don't know what it's like to be deaf. Nor would I attempt to run the NAACP or any other black rights organizations because I'm white and don't know what it's like to be black.

Nothing personal against you, I think it's just time to sit down with a nice cup of hot cocoa and pet a cat or something. It's gonna be okay.

I am not leaving forever yet--but I have wanted to let this out for a while because it's been on my mind a lot.

[DannyKitty]

A lot of people feel insulted at times on this, or any message board. At least, I know, I do.

No reason to feel out of place in general, or that you should leave.

Thanks for your post. I'm not ready to leave--I wanted to find out if anyone would understand how I felt first. Thanks to you, I now know I'm not alone. *hugs*

[Neurovore]

We have all had our little tiffs and run ins with other members here on this forum. They have happened because of various reasons, often through misunderstandings or short tempers.

The important thing is to realize that nothing is perfect, and that aruging about nothing does indeed lead to nothing of value.

[deladangerous]

I expect flames.

Once again: you shouldn't. You've been here long enough to know that people generally don't do that on here.

I clarified my post in that thread before you posted this: I wasn't laughing at sexuals--I was laughing at how the thread got out of hand.

But the very name of the thread is "LOL, check out the sexual dork".... And can you imagine they're doing the same to you right now? ...And would you like that?

I expect that, but using the word "condemn" in a reply to it is pretty nasty since it means "to send to hell".

I saw that. I don't think she meant it anywhere close to the way you've interpreted it.

I do NOT expect everybody to agree with me. HOWEVER, some of the replies hurt my feelings, especially coming from sexuals who do NOT know what I'm going through.

I think only one of the people you got a reply from was sexual. I think, at least. And I think the sexuals on this site do know what asexuals are going through. It's not impossible to know simply because they are not experiencing it themselves. At the same time, you seemed to be laughing at being harrassed or whatever happened in that other forum... Is "what you're going through" really that bad if you yourself are laughing at it?

Leaders of communities should represent the community as a whole, and having sexuals leading this site makes me quite uncomfortable.

They aren't. As far as I know, all the admins at this moment are asexuals. Even so, what's an admin's job? To delete spam and trolls and be able to edit posts and stuff. I don't think anybody should have to be of a certain orientation to be able to do that.

I wouldn't run a Deaf community site (but would participate in it) because I don't know what it's like to be deaf. Nor would I attempt to run the NAACP or any other black rights organizations because I'm white and don't know what it's like to be black.

But you could, in theory, care about people who do know what it's like to be different, and want to make a difference by helping out. I think that's the case with our non-asexual members and moderators.

[DannyKitty]

I wouldn't run a Deaf community site (but would participate in it) because I don't know what it's like to be deaf. Nor would I attempt to run the NAACP or any other black rights organizations because I'm white and don't know what it's like to be black.

But you could' date=' in theory, care about people who do know what it's like to be different, and want to make a difference by helping out. I think that's the case with our non-asexual members and moderators.[/quote']Helping out==siding with other sexuals?

[spinneret]

I'm with dela, have some cocoa. You're in flame mode right now, and you're seeing fights everywhere.

Attacking Hallucigenia or any of our sexual AVENites is completely inappropriate. What I saw at your other thread was a lot of AVEN members trying to express their honest thoughts. We're under the radar, hon. Most people outside AVEN are going to be ignorant of asexuality and all it entails, and it's unfair to expect them to readily accept the idea. Hell, most asexuals have trouble readily accepting the idea.

We don't hate you, we're not out to get you. But there is a line between ranting about poor treatment and dishing it out yourself, and you crossed it. It happens, we move on. Perhaps we apologize to friends we've insulted.

Just, please don't bring flame wars home to AVEN.

[deladangerous]

I'm an Aspie, so sue me. :P

Heh.

Thing is, if you recognise your tendency towards interpreting things incorrectly, then... why throw blame all over the place when it's probably all just a bit of a misunderstanding?

It's not a matter of good or bad. Her reply was more offensive than the troll's flames because she seemed to pretend to understand me when she really didn't.

I know Hallucigenia to be a reasonable, intelligent, generally forthright person. From the way I saw it, she wasn't pretending anything. If this is once again much ado over a misunderstanding, I think you might owe her an apology.

You totally missed my point.

Well, I don't know who else you'd believe to be the site's leaders, then, 'cuz in your original post here you were complaining of the admins being sexuals.. Do you mean AVENguy? He's probably as much a "leader" as we've got, and he's asexual.

Unless of course you mean that sexuals and people who are questioning just shouldn't be allowed on the site... But that wouldn't be fair. If you'd like to explain it more clearly, if I'm still wrong here, do feel free.

Helping out==siding with other sexuals?

Yeah, about that... On AVEN, it's not a game of sexuals verses asexuals, it's a game of human beings. I think what happened in this situation wasn't because of anybody's orientations, I think that whoever criticised your stance just didn't like yer stance, period.

We're supposed to be working to build understanding between communities and people of different lifestyles, here, not sit around and tell each other "you can't possibly understand me 'cuz you're different" or laugh at the rest of the world.

If you wanna laugh at the rest of the world for being not like you, yeah, you're gonna be facing some opposition on this site. That just ain't the way we roll, here.

postscript: I agree with explainneret. We aren't out to get you, so ....yeah, cocoa.

[Shadow girl]

Come on people lets not bicker this is supposed to be a friendly peaceful place. Not taking sides here or anything but how about we just bury the hatchet and forget any of this was mention I really hate to see this happening. Come on what do you all say lets let by gones be by gones?

[Shockwave]

I've been through several phases where I didn't feel at home here. I typically take some time away and the feeling passes.

[deladangerous]

Come on people lets not bicker this is supposed to be a friendly peaceful place.

If by chance you're referring to me, with this...

I don't feel like I'm bickering with anybody, here. It's been my intent to clear things up that seemed as though they needed clarifying, which is, in my opinion, better than letting people just stew with anger beneath the surface.. Especially in an instance like this one where many things just seem misunderstood.

No hard feelings, honest.

[Jesh]

I've been through several phases where I didn't feel at home here. I typically take some time away and the feeling passes.

ditto, and ditto on most of the points dela's made.

no one hates you here, no one thinks you're an awful person, but most of us aren't going to lie and agree with you when we think differently from you. It's not bickering, or flaming, or fighting, it's just expressing a different point of view.

also, while I, personally, would hate to see you, or anyone, leave AVEN over something like this, no one's forcing you to stay. there are several other asexual communities out there where you may feel more comfortable.

[Penumbra]

Um, I'd just like to point out that Hallucigenia is on the Project Team, so she is as much of an AVEN leader as any of the admins, if not more so.

In my opinion, having a sexual up at the forefront of the asexuality visibility movement is, maybe not quintessential, but hugely in our favour. Having a sexual ambassador is important in the eyes of the public, as it shows that we are not an exclusive subset of society, and is a good way to build bridges and promote acceptance in general. (Besides, Hallucigenia has an asexual sibling, so it's not as if she's a complete stranger to the issue.)

That aside, I don't have much to add. Few people out there know about asexuality, and in the culture we live in it's asking a little too much that everyone should accept it firsthand without question. Learn to be patient with ignorance.

[Dargon]

I don't see why one thread in which a good portion of AVEN has disagreed with you is reason to feel uncomfortable at the entire site. In the thread at the aspie forum, things got a little out of hand on both sides. Whatever. It ain't AVEN, and it'll pass, who freakin' cares.

Perhaps I'm a little unable to relate though. You mention showing it to people who have experienced the same hurt you have. Perhaps I'm a bit desensatized, I find any jokes which I am the butt of, any insults towards me, anything of that nature funny rather than offensive or hurtful. Plus laughing rather than getting upset just pisses off the intended offender even more, assuming offence was their intent.

As for Hallu, as has been said, she isn't a mod or admin, she's on the PT. I actually placed a vote for her, because I felt it was important to have a sexual on the PT because 1 ), it allows the non-asexual viewpoint in things, and 2 ), having a sexual representing AVEN, someone who the rest of the sexuals can better relate to than any of the asexuals, is very good for being recognised as a valid orientation by the rest of the world.

Anyhow, don't let one little thread make you feel unwelcome. I've pissed people off here before, it passes over.

[Derp]

I can understand where you're coming from, gnulinuxman. I do think the site has become more PC (for better or worse) since I've joined, and the lines between an asexual rant and an elitist rant are becoming more blurry. I know I probably said a few things when I first joined that people found amusing at the time, but would probably earn me an attitude check if I said them today. And I don't consider myself elitist.. just a tad disgruntled, maybe. :P

I wouldn't run a Deaf community site (but would participate in it) because I don't know what it's like to be deaf. Nor would I attempt to run the NAACP or any other black rights organizations because I'm white and don't know what it's like to be black.

Neither would I. And furthermore, I wouldn't jump into every discussion where someone said something less-than-glowing about white people or the non-hearing-impaired (or whatever) and get all indignant, because I understand that minorities are going to be frustrated with the way the majority runs the railroad from time to time.

[Parth]

...

....

..... ?

[Orbit]

As others have said, I too have gone through times when I didn't feel comfortable posting here - but I came back because it is full of people from every persuasion and perspective who discuss every topic imaginable in a civil way.

Over all there needs to be a balance of feeling like people will understand you and support you and knowing that people will be honest and not just agree with everyone to make them feel better.

One of the most valuable lessons you can learn in life is being fine when someone disagrees with you on a topic you feel strongly about. (I'm still working on that one, and being at Aven has helped. ;) )

[Cacille]

Whoa, after reading thread linked to thread linked to thread here gnulinuxman, i'd have to say this is getting confusing!

From what I am thinking I have read here, which I'm not too sure I have a good grip on myself because it's rather confusing.

I shall attempt to help you figure things out from the posts that seem like it starts something bad.

TheMachine1 wrote:

I'm curious about this kinda relationship to. Like mine and Werbert's joking post

(we know what asexual means) seem to not get any LOL (what we live for!) which got

me thinking do you two enjoy humor?

----

Uh, your posts weren't very funny...

Okay. This person tries to lighten things up, and then you blatently tell him that you didn't think he was funny. First slap in the face.

TheBladeRoden wrote:

Man, she's asexual? Good thing I didn't hook up with her then.

----

You have one sick mind if you'd honestly admit that...

Second "humourous" post. You once again slap someone else in the face.

subatai_baadur wrote:

I know that you're not morally opposed, but my point was that you've hit the jackpot with an aspie girl and have decided to not take it. You won the lottery, took the money, and threw it all in the nearest lake.

----

You're sick...

Instead of Educating this guy about what sex means to you and that love matters a TON more than sex does - and you still have the best relationship you could ever have and you are HAPPY with it...

You slap him in the face.

And it gets worse and worse from here, seemingly you take offense to EVERYONE'S questions and comments, his in particular, and instead of trying to educate him, you get in a all-out-WORD-FIST-FIGHT.

Then you come to Aven to show off what a arrogent prick that guy is (the title of that thread proclaims it)...except then we read the posts and see that you are somewhat to blame yourself. You TRUTHFULLY, started it. You were the one the threw the first slaps gnulinuxman. Then you slap Hallu and other people for not agreeing with you that the other guy is to blame, and start a small fight with Hallu because she didn't completely agree with you.

THEN you post another topic, this newest one. "I don't feel comfortable here anymore".

Let me quote you some more here:

deladangerous wrote:

Don't expect to get the kind of response you'd expect, saying this sort of thing.

----

I expect flames.

Wait, you expected flames? You sure as heck took to beating out the flames pretty fast (you considered Hallu to be the flames). You fought fire with fire. My question to you is, if you expected flames, did you intend to put OUT the flames or make them worse? You made them worse.

deladangerous wrote:

There's thousands of members on here, and one can't expect everyone to agree on everything at all times. People who can't open their minds enough to understand that different people believe different things are gonna have a bit of a problem moving through this forum, and this world.

---

I do NOT expect everybody to agree with me. HOWEVER, some of the replies hurt my feelings, especially coming from sexuals who do NOT know what I'm going through.

Apparently you DID expect people to agree with you. Because when only ONE person nicely said that they didn't, you attacked her. And no, I'm sorry, I do not see how Hallu's post could have possibly have hurt your feelings - she posted nicely and did not outwardly say something. Now me, on the other hand, I do not care if i hurt your feelings -I never have and have stated that in other threads. If I am hurting your feelings, I'm using logic to hurt your feelings and if you consider logic to hurt you, then you will have one hell of a life trying to make logic bow down to your will.

Direct Quote: Leaders of communities should represent the community as a whole, and having sexuals leading this site makes me quite uncomfortable.

Wait a minute. Last I checked, having a leader being a sexual was a good idea. It gives the site a BALANCE. An Equal weight - so anti-sexual ideas do not even begin to get formed. Without a few leaders who are normal but who understand us completely, one day this site just might become a Hitler-regieme - where any sexual is immediately put to death. This is an extreme case, but without BALANCE in the upper ranks, not only could it happen, but it HAS.

Okay, this thread is now impossibly long. My whole point is, gnulinuxman, is that YOU started it all, YOU threw the punches, then YOU run and hid in terror and proclaimed "I'm not comfortable" when people actually nicely tried to state their opinion that they didn't agree. So frankly, if you leave because you are "uncomfortable here", then this one thing you should know. YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF, NO ONE ELSE MADE YOU LEAVE.

The End.

[ghosts]

After reading through these 2 threads, I honestly just think we all just need to calm down a bit. I don't think this is really that big of a deal, to be honest- and no, I'm not trying to trivialize anyone's feelings.

To respond to your post, gnulinuxman... This is supposed to be a place where asexuals can come and talk about asexuality, yes. This is an open forum though, so sexuals are also welcome to come here and express their own opinions. People are allowed to agree or disagree...

What are your thoughts on this? Are sexuals really as perfect as some members here (esp. the sexual members) seem to think they are? Should I go to hell like someone said to me in this post? (well, that's what "condemn" means)

I seriously doubt anyone here thinks sexual people are perfect. Even the sexual members. So even though a lot of people may defend sexuals when some conversations come up, it's not because they think that they're perfect.

And as dela said, I think you misread the "condemn" post- Hallu wasn't telling you to go to hell.

Especially if I am being put down by people who run this site and are sexual (I am strongly against people who don't fit the topic of a site like this being an admin.) I'm afraid that if I can't rant here and be understood that I don't fit in here anymore, even though I am definitely asexual.

There are no sexual people that are administrators, as far as I know. And I personally have no problem with sexual people being leaders in this community because I think of AVEN as more of an alliance. The fact that there are sexual people here who really want to get involved in the community is awesome, I think. I don't feel that you were being put down by anyone, really. I think some people agreed with you, and some people didn't, but everyone was respectful about it.

So! In conclusion, you are free to leave if you'd like to. But I'd strongly urge you to rethink this, because I don't think the situation is as bad as you might feel...

[Wario]

Hm, and if you want to get technical, while the word "condemn" is oftentimes used in religion as condemning you to hell, that's only an application of the word, not the actual denotation. I looked it up, and for none of the definitions given did it specifically mention sentencing one to hell. For this connotation, condemn is just harsh judgement.

[asafugitive]

Leaders of communities should represent the community as a whole, and having sexuals leading this site makes me quite uncomfortable. I wouldn't run a Deaf community site (but would participate in it) because I don't know what it's like to be deaf. Nor would I attempt to run the NAACP or any other black rights organizations because I'm white and don't know what it's like to be black.

did you honestly just compare being the admin on a message board with running the NAACP?

seriously?

[Tarnera]

I'm gonna go with the old standby of everyone is different. Sure, there are dumb, ignorant sexuals, but there are open-minded smart sexuals, too--and I'm sure there are asexuals with both of those attributes as well. I suppose you can rant about them, if you like...but you should expect some people to defend the sexuals. At least you'd have some rage off your chest if you ranted. I know it always helps me to rant about things when I'm mad.

And hey, if you manage to find some logical arguments as to why you're right, you might get some people on your side, whatever that might be.

[winter]

i would like to point out that we have had sexual admods in the past. any sexual person is welcome here, just as any asexual person is welcome here.

[Amcan]

I have little to add but echo the sentiments already expressed in this thread.

There are probably some asexuals out there who are bigoted or racist or both.

Asexuals aren't perfect, sexuals aren't perfect that alone gives us some common ground.

And yeah the term asexual isa new one. It's only in the last 4 yars or so that there has been a community and a place where asexuals and asexuals can learn there is such a thing as asexuality. The more exposure we get the fewer comments born form ignorance will aappear nad having sexuals here already to bridge the gap is a good thing.

[vikingo]

I did see a thread with the headline "LOL! Check out the sexual dork.", but since I was unable to find some of the words in my dictionary I concluded that it was probably above my level.

[jaybird721]

So, uh, who else is up for not pursuing this thread any further?

People have made rational points, but there is so much emotion flying around right now that none of those points are finding homes, and are instead wandering around the streets and dying of malnutrition. That is not a good place for them, so they should be saved for a more friendly atmosphere.

In other words, lets not fight guys. Everybody is getting dogmatic, and that gets nobody anywhere good.

[spinneret]

I'd just like to know Hallucigenia's gotten a proper apology, and then I'll be glad to have it behind us. There's no need to draw this out, but it is good to make amends.

[LonePiper]

Agreed. I think this topic should now be officially closed.

But I would like to make one final point. AVEN is, in general, a friendly place. People generally don’t go out of their way (with only few exceptions) to insult other members. Insults generally occur out of misunderstandings – I know it’s happened to me before. This is an internet forum – we don’t have the luxury of talking to people face to face, and as such the meaning behind the words we write aren’t always as clear as we mean them to be. This is how these misunderstandings happen. But if we try to keep this in mind at all times, and try to find the good will and understanding in every post rather than the insults and flames I think we will all be better for it.

Oh yeah, and while I now consider this topic closed, I am not going to lock it. I imagine there may still be some posts people wish to make, and I trust all AVENites will understand the unneccissity of further discussion and will refrain from further posts and aggrevation of the situation unless they relly have something imortant to add.