Kaira Aitken

I don't fully understand asexuality.

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Kaira Aitken

I am asexual and I understand asexuality in terms of me. I understand how my being asexual relates to me. But I don't understand asexuality from an objective perspective. I only know how to use me as an example, when trying to explain asexuality to people. As in this is how asexuality looks in me. I have no idea how to explain asexuality in general. Wondering if y'all could help with my confusion, which I am about to explain.

 

I watched a YouTube video that explained the differences between:

Sexual attraction - wanting to have sex with someone because of looks, personality etc.

Sexual arousal - doesn't mean they want sex. Just the bodies natural physical response. Like getting an erection or getting wet. 

Sex drive - How driven you are for sexual experiences (be they masturbation or with a partner(s).

Sexual desire - wanting sex in general. Separates this from sexual arousal. Sexual desire is basically you're sexually aroused. But you want to be sexually aroused. You want that sex. 

But this is the bit I don't understand.

An asexual person who enjoys sex with a partner. 

To me a person who feels sexual attraction is naturally picky. Because they'll be sexually attracted to some people and not others. Hence they are subconsciously picking and choosing who they want to have sex with. But asexuals with a strong sex drive don't have "sexual attraction" to decide who they want to have sex with and who they don't. So how do you asexuals with a strong sex drive decide who you want to experience pleasure with, and who you don't? If you don't have sexual attraction to decide for you. 





 

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Alejandrogynous

Speaking as an asexual with a strong libido/sex drive, who I decide to have sex with is still an easy choice. It's nobody. For me, those things are not even connected - no matter how high my sex drive is or how much arousal I feel, it never translates into wanting a partner. If it did, there would be nothing separating me from an average sexual person and I wouldn't consider myself asexual at all.

 

Some will disagree but in my opinion, if you are choosing sexual partners for your own personal enjoyment/gratification, regardless of the criteria, that's sexual attraction.

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Tame One

There are lots of other deciding factors. Romantic attraction or other romantic feelings. I think it's possible that I could have sex with someone who I didn't already have romantic feelings about if I trusted them enough, though it might not be a good idea because (and I'm guessing here) it would likely lead to romantic feelings (unless of course that's a positive development).

 

I guess I would turn your question on it's head. In a book I've been reading, "Come As You Are" the author describes how people have a sexual accelerator and sexual brakes (not everyone has the same level of breaks or accelerator, they might be very high, or one or the other might be effectively non-existant).  Sexual attraction is something that pushes the accelerator down. So because I lack attraction, I need to rely on other things to overcome my brakes. Where sexual attraction might make it easier to have sex with someone an allosexual doesn't know that well, doesn't already trust, I don't have that push and have to really on other relationship aspects to overcome things that might otherwise trigger my brakes.

 

If that metaphor makes sense.

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Ficto.

Asexuality is a lack of an innate desire to connect sexually with other people.

 

Some asexuals may enjoy some of the sensations of sex but not to the extent that they crave it or would actively seek it out just for pleasure or anything. I mean, it's a known fact that rape victims can sometimes orgasm during an attack so that means that sometimes the genitals can respond even if you personally aren't craving or wanting  the sex.

 

Those types of 'asexuals' you mentioned who claim to actively seek sex out, they're actually people who are just confused about the term 'sexual attraction'. They're still choosing sexual partners for some reason or another and that's really all sexual attraction is: choosing someone to have sex with for pleasure. If you didn't have sexual attraction you wouldn't be drawn to seek sex with other people in the first place .

 

So yeah, for an ace, no matter how high your sex drive is you're still not going to try to find people to have sex with (for pleasure). An ace will just masturbate to deal with arousal. If someone enjoys sex to they extent they're actively seeking other people to have it with, that's a very strong sign they're sexual and not ace.

 

Oh also, some asexuals may actually have sex for reasons like: wanting to have a baby, trying to make a partner happy, trying to 'fit in' etc, but they'd also be 100% happy if they never had sex again. They are having sex for external reasons instead of out of an innate desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure. But yeah, once you actively want to seek other people to have sex with for pleasure, that means you're experiencing a form of sexual attraction: An attraction that draws you to seek sex with other people instead of being satisfied with solo masturbation. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't fully understand sexual attraction!!

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Tame One

@Kaira Aitken

 

Despite what other's might say, sexual attraction is just a subset of reasons why a person might want to have sex with another person. Aside from my own experience, I can point to a psychology PhD, specifically in human sexuality (Emily Nagoski in her book that I mentioned before, "Come As You Are") that gives 6 things that push the accelerator that make a person want to have sex with another person, only 1 of which is sexual attraction--and that's not meant to be an exhaustive list.

 

The other interesting thing to note is that sexual attraction is normally something of a short duration that gets a sexual relationship started. So for allosexuals at the beginning of a relationship sex may be fueled by sexual attraction. But a long term sexual relationship even between allosexuals will not be fueled by sexual attraction. For those people, of course, they're picking their sexual partner based on history that included sexual attraction but no longer does.

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Philip027
Quote

But this is the bit I don't understand.

An asexual person who enjoys sex with a partner. 

It's possible to be able to enjoy things when they happen and still not be particularly inclined to ever do them again.

 

That's basically how I feel about going to the movie theaters.  I'll never *want* to (which is why my mom regularly asking me the question "wanna go see a movie?" is a relentless pet peeve of mine; she should know the answer by now), but it doesn't necessarily mean I'll have a bad time if I go.  I usually don't have a bad time, actually.  Still doesn't mean I'll want to go back in the future.  It's never something I'll crave.  I'm just not a movie person.

 

Quote

Speaking as an asexual with a strong libido/sex drive, who I decide to have sex with is still an easy choice. It's nobody.

Nailed it in one.

 

They already have a name for people who want to have sex with other people... sexuals.  This is what they should be defined by, not this nebulous "sexual attraction" thing that should be something simple (you are or have the capacity to be drawn toward someone in a way that has you desiring sex with them... like, "drawn toward" is literally what attraction means) but every different person seems to want to classify it as a different thing -- presumably so that they can keep calling themselves "asexual" or whatever other special snowflakey label they want in order to look cool somehow... even though they're still more or less like any other typical sexual person.

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Serran
7 hours ago, Tame One said:

@Kaira Aitken

 

Despite what other's might say, sexual attraction is just a subset of reasons why a person might want to have sex with another person. Aside from my own experience, I can point to a psychology PhD, specifically in human sexuality (Emily Nagoski in her book that I mentioned before, "Come As You Are") that gives 6 things that push the accelerator that make a person want to have sex with another person, only 1 of which is sexual attraction--and that's not meant to be an exhaustive list.

 

The other interesting thing to note is that sexual attraction is normally something of a short duration that gets a sexual relationship started. So for allosexuals at the beginning of a relationship sex may be fueled by sexual attraction. But a long term sexual relationship even between allosexuals will not be fueled by sexual attraction. For those people, of course, they're picking their sexual partner based on history that included sexual attraction but no longer does.

How is sexual attraction defined in that book?

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Nowhere Girl
10 hours ago, Kaira Aitken said:

But asexuals with a strong sex drive don't have "sexual attraction" to decide who they want to have sex with and who they don't. So how do you asexuals with a strong sex drive decide who you want to experience pleasure with, and who you don't? If you don't have sexual attraction to decide for you. 

I think that you are too strongly taking partnered sex to be the "default". (And yet also allosexual people, I think, on average pleasure themselves more than they have partnered sex - simply not always there is an opportunity present.) I can feel aroused, but I never desire sex with anyone. I can deal with arousal by myself. In fact, sometimes I don't even need to "deal with it" at all - it's pleasant enough if I just fantasise without "doing anything about it".

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Star Lion

Asexuals who want sex can decide to experience it with a person for any number of reasons and preference. Sexual attraction is a feeling of desire towards a person to have sexual contact with them and the feeling is very distinguishable. A person may want sex and decide to have it with a certain person because they’re aesthetically attractive but still be asexual because they never had any feeling of desire towards them. It’s a general want for sex and decided to experience it with this particular person because of other preferences

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Star Lion

@Ficto.

I think the difference is that these asexuals want sex in general, it’s just not a feeling of desire aimed at any particular person. The only reason they would choose a specific person is because of preferences that would distinguish them from the crowd such as aesthetic attraction, personality, and personal connections. It’s like aromantics who really want a relationship and will go out and search for one

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MichaelTannock

@Kaira Aitken Welcome to AVEN!

 

Not too long ago I had a discussion with several people on the forum about this very topic.
In the end, the consensus seemed to be that if you desired partnered sex, then you're experiencing sexual attraction towards the person you choose.
In my case, I've never had or desired sex, so I can't answer your question.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

ZWughhv.jpg

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R_1

About on the part on desire,  at what point does it become desire?  That's something you might want to look into.

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Ficto.
6 hours ago, Star Lion said:

Asexuals who want sex can decide to experience it with a person for any number of reasons and preference. Sexual attraction is a feeling of desire towards a person to have sexual contact with them and the feeling is very distinguishable.

No this isn't how it works.

 

'Sexual attraction' is merely a desire to connect sexually with someone other than yourself for whatever reason. Sure for some people there is a feeling of 'omg I need to bang her and only her or I'll literally die' but it's sad that that's come to be viewed as the 'general standard definition' in the ace community because actually, that's sexual obsession and certainly not everyone experiences it.

 

For example, there are many who just enjoy sexual intimacy as an aspect of romantic love, some just enjoy sex in general so will have it with friends etc without any real preferences, some (like my hypersexual ex) will have it with *any* person of a certain gender/s without preference.. and so on and so forth. There isn't any one box that fits all when it comes to how sexual people choose who they have sex with. What they all have in common though is that under some circumstances they do have a desire to connect sexually with certain other people. That general draw to seek someone else to share sexual release with, that's what makes someone sexual on the most basic level. 

 

6 hours ago, Star Lion said:

@Ficto.

I think the difference is that these asexuals want sex in general, it’s just not a feeling of desire aimed at any particular person.

Can you see here that what you're technically saying is an asexual is someone who will screw any person without preference? Which is actually a pansexual, not an asexual. And even then, pansexuals still usually will choose one person or another for a variety of reasons. But this kind of definition of asexual is taking it and flipping it utterly upside down by saying: no, an asexual isn't someone who has no innate desire for sexual contact. An asexual is someone who desires sexual contact with every human being alive indescriminately. So an asexual is actually a sex monster, you've all been defining it wrong all this time Ficto :P

 

And hey, there's nothing wrong with being a sex monster, it's just that ... Maybe one could come up with a new label to describe such people instead of taking a label that already has a pre-established meaning? Because the label of asexuality would lose literally all meaning if asexuality could mean (depending on how one defines sexual attraction): someone who has no desire to connect sexually with other people OR someone who desires to have sex with every single human being alive without preference. You suddenly have a label that means nothing. Heh 😛

 

6 hours ago, Star Lion said:

The only reason they would choose a specific person is because of preferences that would distinguish them from the crowd such as aesthetic attraction, personality, and personal connections.

Oh but wait, then you go on to say this... Which is literally how most people choose sexual partners, lol. There are specific characteristics that will usually draw you to have sex with one person instead of that person over there or that other person. Being a sexual person means you already have the innate ability within you to desire sexual intimacy with another, and maybe this person will stand out to you aesthetically, or you love that person's personality, or you have a personal connection with that other person, and because of all those things you may decide you'd also like to enjoy sexual intimacy with that person. What you described right here is literally how sexual attraction works for many people. It's not some overheleming magical feeling that can't be properly described or anything. It's literally just 'I'd like to enjoy sex with that person because I like her smile and she's  funny and she has a great personality, but I don't want to have sex with that guy with rotten teeth and facial tattoos because ew'.

 

If you're saying that the difference is that for an asexual, if the lady with the pretty smile turns them down then they'll go ask the guy with facial tattoos for sex instead, then again, what we are dealing with is someone who has no sexual standards. Not an asexual. We are talking about someone who just doesn't care who or what they have sex with when it comes down to it. And that truly would be a bizarre and twisted way to define asexuality. :cake:

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Whatsis
3 hours ago, Star Lion said:

It’s like aromantics who really want a relationship and will go out and search for one

😶

 

I for one don't think that's in any way whatsoever a truthful (or useful!) concept of aromanticism?

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Ficto.
3 hours ago, Whatsis said:

😶

 

I for one don't think that's in any way whatsoever a truthful (or useful!) concept of aromanticism?

Yeah I'm 100% romantic and even I don't 'really want a relationship', and certainly don't go out and search for one. I just know that if I happen to meet the right person by accident I could potentially desire a romantic relationship with them. If you're craving a romantic relationship to that extent then there is definitely some form of romantic drive underlying that desire. What's described there sounds more like an obsessive romantic teenage girl wishing for a relationship, the total opposite of aromanticism. 

 

There seems to be a bit of a trend on AVEN lately to take a pre-established label and describe it in the complete polar opposite way that it was originally intended :P

 

If we apply this same rule to heterosexuality: A heterosexual person desires sexual intimacy with people of a different gender than themselves. A heterosexual person is also able to exclusively only desire sex with people of the same gender, while having 0% interest in having any form of intimate interaction with people of a different gender.

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St. Nyaaconix the II

I wish to have a partnership... A companionship. And I really don't care if that's romantic or platonic. I just know, that being alone is a living hell.

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Kaira Aitken
18 hours ago, Alejandrogynous said:

Speaking as an asexual with a strong libido/sex drive, who I decide to have sex with is still an easy choice. It's nobody. For me, those things are not even connected - no matter how high my sex drive is or how much arousal I feel, it never translates into wanting a partner. If it did, there would be nothing separating me from an average sexual person and I wouldn't consider myself asexual at all.

 

Some will disagree but in my opinion, if you are choosing sexual partners for your own personal enjoyment/gratification, regardless of the criteria, that's sexual attraction.

Interesting. So what do you do with your high sex drive? Do you masturbate? Use sex toys? Have you ever had sex with someone and why? If it's not sexual attraction that drives you to have sex with someone, what does? 

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Kaira Aitken
18 hours ago, Ficto. said:

Asexuality is a lack of an innate desire to connect sexually with other people.

 

Some asexuals may enjoy some of the sensations of sex but not to the extent that they crave it or would actively seek it out just for pleasure or anything. I mean, it's a known fact that rape victims can sometimes orgasm during an attack so that means that sometimes the genitals can respond even if you personally aren't craving or wanting  the sex.

 

Those types of 'asexuals' you mentioned who claim to actively seek sex out, they're actually people who are just confused about the term 'sexual attraction'. They're still choosing sexual partners for some reason or another and that's really all sexual attraction is: choosing someone to have sex with for pleasure. If you didn't have sexual attraction you wouldn't be drawn to seek sex with other people in the first place .

 

So yeah, for an ace, no matter how high your sex drive is you're still not going to try to find people to have sex with (for pleasure). An ace will just masturbate to deal with arousal. If someone enjoys sex to they extent they're actively seeking other people to have it with, that's a very strong sign they're sexual and not ace.

 

Oh also, some asexuals may actually have sex for reasons like: wanting to have a baby, trying to make a partner happy, trying to 'fit in' etc, but they'd also be 100% happy if they never had sex again. They are having sex for external reasons instead of out of an innate desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure. But yeah, once you actively want to seek other people to have sex with for pleasure, that means you're experiencing a form of sexual attraction: An attraction that draws you to seek sex with other people instead of being satisfied with solo masturbation. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't fully understand sexual attraction!!

Wow that makes so much sense! So my confusion comes from those who don't fully understand that they aren't exactly asexual. I am quite certain that I am asexual based on what you've said. Thanks for making things 100 times more clearer to me. Because the misconceptions I've had about asexuality and asexuals having sex have left me pretty much tongue-tied.

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Ficto.
2 hours ago, Kaira Aitken said:

Interesting. So what do you do with your high sex drive? Do you masturbate? Use sex toys? Have you ever had sex with someone and why? If it's not sexual attraction that drives you to have sex with someone, what does? 

edit: I hadn't seen the above response to me before typing this, sorry!

 

Not to speak for @Alejandrogynous but.. I'm going to speak for them, haha.

 

Alejandrogynous said that as an asexual with a high sex drive, they don't desire to have sex with anyone ergo they choose not to have sex with anyone.

 

Just because someone is aroused/horny doesn't mean they need someone else to get them off (that would be a sexual trait, not an asexual one). Masturbation is the answer here. An asexual with a high sex drive will masturbate. If they actively go out and seek other people to have sex with (as a result of their high libido) that's a sexual trait, not an asexual one :P

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Kaira Aitken
2 minutes ago, Ficto. said:

Not to speak for @Alejandrogynous but.. I'm going to speak for them.

 

Alejandrogynous specifically said that as an asexual with a high sex drive, they don't desire to have sex with anyone. Just because someone is aroused/horny doesn't mean they need someone else to get them off (that would be a sexual trait, not an asexual one). Masturbation is the answer here. An asexual with a high sex drive will masturbate. If they actively go out and seek other people to have sex with (as a result of their high libido) that's a sexual trait, not an asexual one :P

 

 

Ah right. I also read your answer about why an asexual person would have sex, but I didn't read your answer until AFTER I had responded to Alejandrogynous. If I had read your answer first before responding to Alejandrogynous, I wouldn't have bothered asking him/her? what I asked. 

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Ficto.
16 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

Ah right. I also read your answer about why an asexual person would have sex, but I didn't read your answer until AFTER I had responded to Alejandrogynous. If I had read your answer first before responding to Alejandrogynous, I wouldn't have bothered asking him/her? what I asked. 

I was responding to your reply to Alej before your response to me came through :P I'm on my phone and unfortunately one cannot read new comments that come through until after they've posted the comment they're typing, then the editing function crapped out AGAIN (seriously, why can't they fix it yet??) so after all that I haven't even had time to read your previous response to me yet :P give me a moment!

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Alejandrogynous
21 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

Interesting. So what do you do with your high sex drive? Do you masturbate? Use sex toys? Have you ever had sex with someone and why? If it's not sexual attraction that drives you to have sex with someone, what does? 

@Ficto. already answered (correctly!) for me, but yep - to put it bluntly, if I'm horny, I masturbate. I have had sex in the past, before I knew what asexuality was and assumed that if I thought someone was good looking, that meant I wanted to have sex with them. Because that's just what people do, right? A lot of questionable experiences later, I realized that wasn't actually true. Now I can see the clear disconnect between wanting an orgasm and wanting someone to help with that orgasm, lol. The former I experience often, while the latter... yeah, never. 

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Kaira Aitken

I just want to say that after reading all these posts, I am 99% sure I am asexual. I never say I am 100% sure of anything, just in case. 

 

I want to thank you for clarifying this for me. 

 

One user said: I think the difference is that these asexuals want sex in general, it’s just not a feeling of desire aimed at any particular person.

 

To which @Ficto. responded with: Can you see here that what you're technically saying is an asexual is someone who will screw any person without preference? Which is actually a pansexual, not an asexual. 

 

OH MY GOSH! Thank you so much for clarifying that. Because the YouTube video gave me the impression that asexuals would fuck anything that breathes. My brain was like "that sounds wrong. That makes no sense."

 

Oh sexual asexuals aren't attracted to any particular person, but they can just want sex. They're drawn to the sex not to the person ... (the YouTube video seemed to imply)

 

And I felt like the hamster in my brain ran out my ear and decided to hurl itself off a cliff. That's how confused I was. But thanks to you all and your respectful responses, I'm definitely not confused anymore. 

 

I just want to say I apologize if I've offended anyone with my naivety. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Kaira Aitken
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Ficto.
20 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

Wow that makes so much sense! So my confusion comes from those who don't fully understand that they aren't exactly asexual. I am quite certain that I am asexual based on what you've said. Thanks for making things 100 times more clearer to me. Because the misconceptions I've had about asexuality and asexuals having sex have left me pretty much tongue-tied.

Okay haha sorry, thought I'd really quickly respond when I saw your other message to Alej but didn't know you'd posted more comments until after I posted mine, it's soooo annoying how that happens!

 

But yeah, let's take Alej as an example as they've said they're an asexual with a high sex drive. What makes Alej asexual instead of sexual is that even though they have a high sex drive they don't seek out people to have sex with. If Alej was like 'I'm going to find someone to bang because damn I'm so horny, I don't care who it is anyone will do!!' that's not asexual even though some others in this thread have attempted to define asexuality like that, lol. But as you can see in my response to Star Lion, if that's what asexuality was then it would be like saying a heterosexual is a person who only desires sexual intimacy and relationships with people of the same gender as themselves, haha. It's turning a pre-established definition and making it the total opposite of what it was originally designed for :P 

 

21 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

I wouldn't have bothered asking him/her?

Oh also regarding this part, if I don't know what someone's gender is or they don't make it clear, I just say 'they/them'. We have heaps of transpeople and non-gender-specific identities on AVEN so it's just easier to say 'they' and 'them' when one isn't sure!! That's what I do anyway, it's faster than writing he/her? or whatever when you're trying to type in a massive hurry!!

 

I have heard my notifications pinging while typing this so I'm assuming more replies are coming through which I won't see until after I've posted this, hopefully @Alejandrogynous hasn't responded while I'm typing this saying something like 'Ficto is totally wrong, I absolutely love to bang people but what I meant is I don't choose my partners, I stand nekked in the mall and let them choose me' or something bizarre like that :P Pretty sure I know them well enough by now though to know that probably won't be the case, haha.

 

I'd also like to add that someone can still call themselves whatever they want as far as I am concerned, it's the definitions themselves I get into debates about, not how individuals choose to identify! :cake:

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Ficto.
6 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

Because the YouTube video gave me the impression that asexuals would fuck anything that breathes.

OH MY FUCKING GOD ahahaha, no wonder the rest of the world has trouble taking asexuality seriously as a legitimate orientation when this kind of shit is out there for randoms to find :P 

 

Yes my gosh, that's pansexuality but even pansexuals aren't all sex monsters who will just grab the nearest homeless person and ravage them, they still have preferences. Some people legitimately seem to think that asexuality means 'a pansexual person with 0 standards so will bang literally anything alive' and I'm just like 

 

 

Related image

 

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Alejandrogynous
2 minutes ago, Ficto. said:

'Ficto is totally wrong, I absolutely love to bang people but what I meant is I don't choose my partners, I stand nekked in the mall and let them choose me'

LMAO

 

Well, I mean... I have stood nekked in a mall before. But it was an abandoned mall and nobody chose me except the photographer I was working with. And there was no sex involved, thanks. :P

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MichaelTannock

Uh, I've never had sex, or even the desire to have it, and I likely never will.

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Kaira Aitken
1 minute ago, Ficto. said:

OH MY FUCKING GOD ahahaha, no wonder the rest of the world has trouble taking asexuality seriously as a legitimate orientation when this kind of shit is out there for randoms to find :P 

 

Yes my gosh, that's pansexuality but even pansexuals aren't all sex monsters who will just grab the nearest homeless person and ravage them, they still have preferences. Some people legitimately seem to think that asexuality means 'a pansexual person with 0 standards so will bang literally anything alive' and I'm just like 

 

 

Related image

 

The big problem I had with the implication of "no sexual preferences towards any particular person" was it sounded like an unintentional misguided insult to me. Like oh asexuals, pansexuals would totally fuck children too. It's more like "Hey you'll do!" I know that's not what the YouTuber meant to imply, but she still implied that. And obviously it didn't sit right with me.  

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MichaelTannock

That doesn't sit well with me either.

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Ficto.
12 minutes ago, Kaira Aitken said:

And I felt like the hamster in my brain ran out my ear and decided to hurl itself off a cliff.

This is what happened to your brain hamster:

 

hamster wheel GIF

 

Now it's back on its wheel :P 

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