counseling empathy test too twisted for an asexual?

[mouth brooder]

I am in the process of applying to a Counseling and Ed Psych grad program. In the initial application, there were some visualizations to respond to. Here's the one that caught me off guard:

Imagine for a while that you live in a society in which the majority of the people are gay and lesbian. The entire society is set up for homosexuality. It is the way things are. Children (from adoption, artificial insemination, etc.) are raised by parents who are both women or both men. Your parents are gay, your peers are all gay. When you were younger, you were not sure you had ever met anyone who is not gay or lesbian. BUT, you are heterosexual.

Daily you "hide" and try to "pass" for lesbian or gay. You talk about the person you are dating making sure that you use a pronoun of the same gender you are. You have to make sure you don’t "slip" and use the wrong pronoun. If you are a woman, you are very afraid they will find out that you are in love with a man. If you are a man, you fear that they will find out that you are in love with a woman.

You only have a couple of places in the city or town where you live that you can go with your partner and "be yourself". Those places are designed for heterosexual people. Sometimes you are afraid even to go there. What is someone "outs" you? What if someone is in there "spying"? You have trouble trusting that you are safe, even in the places where others are "like" you.

Your colleagues have pictures of their same sex partners on their desk. If you were to put a picture on your desk of your partner, you would be accused of "flaunting" your heterosexuality, and you might very well be fired.

Lots of people around you tell "straight" jokes and expect that you will laugh. Everyone knows that heterosexuals are perverts. People also talk about how who you are--a heterosexual--is only about what you do sexually with someone. They don’t have any idea there is much more than that. You were a heterosexual when you were not sexually active, and even as an adult, you have had times in your life when you were celibate and you are still a heterosexual. Being a heterosexual is MUCH more than just about what happens under the covers in one’s bed. You know that and you don’t believe that others--those in the dominant culture--are willing to know that.

Your parents--like most parents--are lesbian or gay, so you can’t even share with them your pain of being a member of a marginalized group.

You go to church--where a homosexual minister, priest, or rabbi tells the congregation that heterosexuals are wicked and sinful and wrong--saying that who you are is a sin--your "being" is wicked. You know you are not wicked and that you did not choose your sexual orientation. You didn’t choose to be heterosexual and yet it is hard not to integrate all of the negative messages.

When you were younger, you dated same sex people--you tried to be attracted to them. You really WANTED to be homosexual. You prayed to be different, you even thought about killing yourself when you realized that you couldn’t change the fact that you were heterosexual and the world hates heterosexuals.

You got a lot of pressure from family and friends to day and marry someone of the same sex. They are always trying to fix you up.

The media reflects pretty exclusively same-sex couples. Men on the screen and in the magazines are kissing men--women are kissing women. All of the stories told to children center around men finding men and women finding women to love. There was no one, when you were growing up who would talk about the fact that there are some people who are NOT attracted to the same sex. You had no one to tell you how a heterosexual is supposed to feel or be. There were/are no role models.

In this world you--as a heterosexual--must ALWAYS be aware of what you are saying, of how you act, of who you talk with, of how you walk, of how you dress, of how you talk. You have to closely study lesbians and gays to try to act and walk and talk like them. You don’t hang out with heterosexuals in public--just in case someone might "peg" you as heterosexual. You wonder "will I EVER be free to openly love my partner?" "Will I every be free to be who I am without fearing that I will loose my job?" "Will I ever be free to share my life openly with my parents and my siblings?" "Will I every be respected for being who I am--the whole of who I am?" You wonder...

Here is how I responded:

Dizzy.

Perhaps the personal nature of this visualization means that it is safe for me to be completely honest here. The best response I can write to this visualization is my explanation why this visualization causes me a bit of imagination paralysis. I am asexual. Trying to respond here turns me around so many times I get dizzy. For the majority of my post-pubescent lifetime I tried to fit into some kind of sexual role because I thought it would just be a matter of time for me to finally "get" sex. My experiences as a repressed asexual have taught me great empathy for sexual people, hetero, homo, even mono, but as an awakened asexual I can't even figure out what the appropriate sexuality visualization would be for me to respond to here so that you could get an idea of how I empathize. Sometimes, though, things can backfire in a really positive direction!;)

I get the feeling that their efforts to free people from a certain box just put me in a different one....

[Brodertun]

lol, I think I would write about how I'd feel that would be a nice place to be in, because there are places for heterosexuals to go to, wheras we asexuals in Pittsburgh don't even have anyone living close enough to go meetup with.

[River]

You're in the desert, and see a tortise lying on its shell on the sand. It's trying to flip itself, but unable to do so. What do you do?

I'm sorry, but that reminded me of that old philosiphical question. But, to be honest, how do you answer a question like that if you don't care? Do you look at the test taker and ask if they have change for the vending machine at that point?

[mouth brooder]

AAA, yeah, write them a Pittsburgh visualization!

River, your post reminded me of how Leon Kowalski responded to his empathy test in Blade Runner. :twisted: What is even harder, how do I answer this kind of question if I do care? They want me to respond as an empathizer, but I need to respond first hand.

I am sick of certain games, but to get to play the ones I like, I also have to play the ones I don't, right?

[Amcan]

Yeah it made me dizzy too. As asexuals we don't face the same things that homosexuals or hertosexuals face in a lot of ways.

I never fallen in love so I can't comprehend that.

[mouth brooder]

Yeah it made me dizzy too. As asexuals we don't face the same things that homosexuals or hertosexuals face in a lot of ways.

I never fallen in love so I can't comprehend that.

Maybe I should have mentioned being aromantic too. That might have really knocked them sideways for a new perspective.

I am eager to get into this degree program though, to bring their attention to AVEN! Maybe I can specialize as an Asexual Counselor??

[Steel]

I'd be writing a visualization where sex didn't matter to people. Where no one obsessed about it-or cared who you slept with.. (over the age of consent)

One where sex was so taken for granted as a natural function that it had absolutely no meaning,beyond itself. Where no one had to fit particular roles or sterotypes because of an accident of birth. In short,a world where people were free to live as they saw fit-and no one judged them for just being what they pleased.

If a man wanted to walk down the street in women's clothing-no one would think it odd-or that he must be gay. Or a woman wanted to do guy things-like play pro football-ditto. As long as they were capable-it would not matter.

Now for most people,that would be a brain burner. Kind of sad,isn't it?

[Wario]

Okay, maybe I'm just mentally lacking, but I don't know what kind of answer they want. Okay, sure, I visualize it, but then what? What am I supposed to say in response?

[Wintermute]

Screw fitting in and being accepted, and screw feeling sorry for yourselves because you are misunderstood. I'll take freedom over social confinement, thank you. If you can't get over what the sheeple think of you, then get in your pen, eat some hay, and make some wool. And enjoy the conversation. Life is life, it's not fair, and it's not easy, and it would be unbearably boring if it were either.

[Hu]

And then pull a freshly iced (preferably lemon) cake out of your bag and splat them square in the face with it.

[Dargon]

The prompt ends with the words "you wonder..."

I think the best way to start the response would be "where I should go for lunch today."

I think this prompt was set up to get people to thinking how they would react in a situation opposite of how modern society is. Most people are heterosexual, and odds are a good number have never considered the trials and hardships homosexuals go through. By saying "assume most the world is gay" instead of "assume you're gay," that gets to the role reversal thing in a roundabout way, without really insulting one's sexuality. For someone like an asexual, particularly an aromantic asexual, or anyone who actually has put a great deal of thought into the trials and hardships, this question really cannot pull much out of the person.

Truely, though, I don't see what kind of answer they want. Perhaps they are trying to see, in a round about way, your own position on sexuality, or more particualrly, homosexuality. Or perhaps they are trying to get you to look at things from the other persons shoes. Either way, I wouldn't know how to respond. I said before, the prompt ends in "I wonder..." My response would be "I wonder what I'm supposed to write, this is too broad and open ended.

[Wario]

Hey, someone agrees it's too vague. :D

[mouth brooder]

My bad, Wario and Dargon.

In my OP I should have included the instructions. I was feeling awkward posting such a wordy thing, but no excuse.

So, the instructions are to

Allow yourself to spend a few minutes continuing to imagine this world you live in. Notice what feelings and thoughts come up for you, and write a response to this visualization. Please submit with admission materials.

Well, now that I reread this, I still feel the way Dargon so eloquently expressed: "For someone like an asexual, particularly an aromantic asexual, or anyone who actually has put a great deal of thought into the trials and hardships, this question really cannot pull much out of the person."

Thank you everyone for responding so far. I am continuing to pursue admission into and completion of this certification program, and I intend to continue sharing my experiences with it here.

Dio

[Lors]

I didn't even bother trying to put myself in a situation, but it probably would have made me dizzy and given me a headache. I just read it, and it seems to me they were already telling you what to think, and I couldn't give a response, but then there is a good reason I'm studying maths and physics and not English.

I have often wanted to ask people to put themselves in that situation but never had the courage or opportunity. I'd be very interested to find out how the people I'd know would react.

[mouth brooder]

I'd be writing a visualization where sex didn't matter to people. Where no one obsessed about it-or cared who you slept with.. (over the age of consent)

One where sex was so taken for granted as a natural function that it had absolutely no meaning,beyond itself. Where no one had to fit particular roles or sterotypes because of an accident of birth. In short,a world where people were free to live as they saw fit-and no one judged them for just being what they pleased.

If a man wanted to walk down the street in women's clothing-no one would think it odd-or that he must be gay. Or a woman wanted to do guy things-like play pro football-ditto. As long as they were capable-it would not matter.

Now for most people,that would be a brain burner. Kind of sad,isn't it?

I've been rereading your reply since you first posted it, Steel. I was still getting over my dizziness from the gay world visualization, so it took me awhile to process why you respond with an avenite fantasy. Now I see that your visualization is the one that should have appeared on the application, and it would be really interesting to see how sexuals would respond to it.

Everybody,

Perhaps I should mention that the other two visualizations in the application were table turners on the issues of race and gender. The first visualization was about a world dominated by people of color. The second one was about a world dominated by the feminine gender.

I didn't have too much trouble responding with feeling to the first because I am a member of the "ruling" race. The second one was tougher because I already feel oppressed by stereotypical femaleness as an atypical female. So, by the time I got to the third one, I was like, I get the point and this game is talking down to me.

When I get into the program, considering it is for counseling, which is supposed to free people from boxes, it might be weird being better at not putting people into boxes than my teachers are, or I will kick myself for putting my teachers into boxes for putting people into boxes because I am trying to be someone who doesn't put anyone into boxes.

[Steel]

Diogena,my reply was about a mythical society that had transcended sex as a way to define individuals. If one desires a truly egalitarian society-sex cannot matter. Here is a good for instance. In Stalinist Russia,they pretty much did away with sex as a class distinction. Everyone was considered to be a "comrade". And every comrade was an equal individual in the eyes of the government. Wages and treatment were pretty the same-no one got special treatment.

This made a woman's lib movement pretty much impossible. How could you protest unequal rights under such a system? China has a similar system-but a totalitarian government is never going to really see to the needs of the people-no matter how much it claims egalitarianism. the politicians in the party will always have special privileges that the proletariat are denied. Such governments exist only to perpetuate themselves-usually at the expense of those they rule.

So while everyone in that particular class has equality-they are of a very LOW quality overall.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now if you look at this from your counseling view point, I can only say this. Suggest to your teachers the futility of trying to orient on singularities of detail in multi facted individuals. You can not take any one facet and stick it in a neat little box-all of those facets are interconnected,and in a constant state of adjustment and evolution.

Boxes and classifications will only fit static concepts and qualities. And the only humans that are totally static are DEAD ones.

[mouth brooder]

Steel,

Yeah. There's people who focus on singularities of detail so they can't look at ultimate Singularity.

When I was a teacher I secretly knew that my students were the real teachers. Now that I am a student again, what will my teachers know?

Probably that I am arrogant.

Lors, physics at least looks beyond human limitations.

[Eta Carinae]

Am I the only one who finds that visualization heterosexist? It assumes the test taker is straight. And granted, that's the case most of the time, but if you're going to chide people to be inclusive, maybe you ought to... you know, be inclusive.

[Flyin'Solo]

Am I the only one who finds that visualization heterosexist? It assumes the test taker is straight. And granted, that's the case most of the time, but if you're going to chide people to be inclusive, maybe you ought to... you know, be inclusive

totally what I was thinking! I could especially see how that got a little trite and insulting to your intelligence after it was the third scenerio of it's kind.

Did you say you were applying for a graduate program? You could be like, "well, yes, we talked about the basics of systematic inequalities in sociology 101... and every class since then... but how interesting, I've never thought about something like this!!!"

[zyralm]

.

[mouth brooder]

Am I the only one who finds that visualization heterosexist? It assumes the test taker is straight. And granted, that's the case most of the time, but if you're going to chide people to be inclusive, maybe you ought to... you know, be inclusive.

As you pointed out, the majority of test takers will be straight. The assumption is that non-straight people will have already experienced a similar situation, and that they are not the target of having their perspective changed. Not to say that I agree with it, though - most queers I know are quite "sexualist", and their prejudice is far more intense than most straight people I know, unfortunately.

On that note, "sexualist"? Man, do I hate that I have to make up words to express something that should definitely have its own precise definition, instead of something outdated like "homo/hetero-phobic" :evil:

Yeah, good one on you to make up "sexualist" since we have sexist but that misses the mark.

If I let myself be bothered as much as I could be about the ill-educatedness of our education system, then I wouldn't get involved to try to make a difference to the people whose lives are being literally trashed. So, I jump through hoops, eat the least offensive of the shit since I have to eat some shit, and know that even though nothing really matters I'll be happy hunkering down in the myth of Sisyphus. :?

Having all of you to bounce this stuff off makes what I am about to do less unbearable.