Job Searching While Trans

[nerdperson777]

So I graduated college almost two months ago and I've been looking for jobs. I've been applying for jobs as my chosen name. Upon leaking out to my mom that I was using this name, she freaked out. She said that I wasn't using my "real name" and people will stop trusting me because of it. People will discriminate against me. I retorted back that the only people who aren't discriminated against are white men. After all that she kept bringing my job search back up and stuff regarding my name when I didn't want her involved in my search. She's been a helicopter mom all my life and must know everything. I want to put a stop to it. I live in California so it should be okay that I use my chosen name. My mom came to America as an immigrant so she should know what's it like to have another name, even if she had her English name since she was young, having lived in a British colony with lots of British influence. I believe her English name is from an English musical. So I see no problem with me using my chosen name. 

 

Another thing is that I went to a hiring event by Amazon. I had set up an appointment with my chosen name. When I got there, I had to sign in and show my legal documents. The people were totally fine with it. Further down the process after filling out forms on their computers, I talked to someone for the next part. They were fine with my different name but I was asked if or when I would legally change my name. It sounded like my different name was a burden to go through in the future. All future employers would have to be notified about this name and legally changing would make it less troublesome. I get that practically it is a problem but does that worker have to ask about it? 

[Naosuu]

I'm definitively not qualified to answer this but I just wanted to say that I hope things work out for you. You have my support for this situation you're going through  

[miauw]

It's not exactly about the same thing, but.

I am currently participating in a programme that helps educated foreigners find jobs here in Belgium. As you can imagine, there are people from all over the world, some of them with really strange names. One of women, who goes by "Ellie" is actually named something apparently long and unpronounceable. She worried about what name she would write on her resume when applying for work and our mediator/case worker definitely told her to write "Ellie", as that is the name she uses, that is who she is. And she is applying as herself, presenting herself with her resume, so it should not matter what complicated absurd name is on her papers when she has not used it in years. I think the same should apply for trans people as well.

Anyway, if any potential employers have a problem with that, they are not the sort of people you would want to work for, right? Also, why should the employers or whatever have to care about whether it's your legal name or what? Your legal name is relevant for the contract itself, yes, but other than that - it's none of their damn business if or when you legally change your name.

[butterflydreams]

Until you fill out a W-4 and an I-9, there is no legally binding reason you need to give your legal name in a job hunt. And even when you fill those forms out, they're typically confidential HR material, so no one will see them. There are exceptions to this, such as some background checks and security clearances, but even those should be confidential.

 

I don't have any job hunting experience as a trans person yet, though I bet I will soon. But I have conducted interviews as a trans person. The advice I'd give for applicants is to follow application directions. Send what's requested. Give emails appropriate subjects. Answer your phone when we call and in the interview itself, don't bullshit. It's so obvious. Don't be overly modest, stay relaxed. I promise I couldn't care less what your name is or whether you're trans or not. I'm only there to find a good candidate.

[nerdperson777]

I'm very cooperative since I don't have a clue what I should do other than follow instructions. It might be my ASD, but I can't really BS. My past doesn't let me praise myself so I don't think I can be modest. But I think I'm too relaxed and clueless to figure out I'm interviewing wrong. 

[Calligraphette_Coe]

9 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I'm very cooperative since I don't have a clue what I should do other than follow instructions. It might be my ASD, but I can't really BS. My past doesn't let me praise myself so I don't think I can be modest. But I think I'm too relaxed and clueless to figure out I'm interviewing wrong. 

FWIW, a lot of the jobs where you have to be an ace interviewee, you'd quickly find aren't the ones suited to either your talents or probably, your gender nonconformity. Still, you're in the bay area, where such things are more accepted.

 

The funny thing is? All the best jobs I ever had were ones where I didn't really interview at all. Someone in my STEM network of colleagues recommended me to fulfill a need. Even my present crappy job-- I never even filled out an application. The chief engineer called me in for a meeting, asked me a few tough questions which I aced, and within 5 minutes, I had the job.

 

I also spent 15 years as a consultant, independent contractor and entrepreneur. I gave a lot of that up because the health insurance for someone with my medical history got either too expensive or unavailable.

 

The problem is, I guess, for you, is "How do I get there?" You don't have to be like a Steve Jobs with his awful temperament and personality, to get there. You can be a very modest and polite person, something you'll find a lot of polymaths are. The saying "If you build it, they will come", is just as true in careers. Get your foot in someone's door and do great things. Half of getting your foot in the door is just showing up and being charming and a bit of a visionary.

 

If you find you have to use your given name, give in and do so, but keep your eye on the future. Once you establish yourself, they'll come looking for you if they're smart and the kind of company that grows. I look at names as just sounds, something a little like SSNs that are assigned and have little real meaning as descriptors and those types of employers will, too.

 

It's not a job, it's an adventure is not as corny as it sounds.

 

Good luck! I've had medical tests done that are 10 times more pleasant than looking for a job.

[nerdperson777]

@Calligraphette_Coe I've been told a lot that it's about the connections.  I don't talk to people much, which doesn't give me connections and I think my lack of experience even interacting with people puts me at a bigger disadvantage than some extrovert teenager who may not have gotten their high school diploma yet.  When I can't speak out my strong points, it just looks worse than a teenager who can state their more minor skills.  I'm not sure now.  I may just be currently stuck in a mentality where I question everything I do.  I have a friend who graduated the same time I did and I think we're stuck in a time in our lives where we're overqualified for something like a fast food worker but underqualified for so called entry level jobs.  I look up entry level jobs and they end up having a requirement of 3 years of experience or something.  I'm not really sure what to be applying for.  I've been looking at things like office assistant but I'm not sure how to get from there to something more my field (math).

[butterflydreams]

12 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

The funny thing is? All the best jobs I ever had were ones where I didn't really interview at all. Someone in my STEM network of colleagues recommended me to fulfill a need. Even my present crappy job-- I never even filled out an application. The chief engineer called me in for a meeting, asked me a few tough questions which I aced, and within 5 minutes, I had the job.

This is so true.

 

When I was getting out of college, I interviewed a lot, mostly because I wanted a job in a different state, where I had no connections. If I had wanted a job in the Boston metro area, all I had to do was show up because of connections. In all that interviewing, I always felt it was really easy to slay interviews. I had one interview last 4 hours. They had me sitting in on a meeting that day they were so cool with me. And now that I'm on the other side of the table, seeing things from the other direction, what I've learned is this...

 

Good people are rarely in the job market because they're so good. They don't need to be. They make connections, someone always wants them. Sometimes good people are in the market, like if they're breaking in somewhere new with no connections (like I was), but most of the time, the market consists of the same kinds of people churning around and around.

 

So, if you are in the job market, it's really not that hard to stand out (assuming you have the basic skills and are a decent match for a position). It's not hard at all.

 

I'm back home, so I was able to find this link again, that might be helpful: https://www.uvm.edu/~career/pdf/FAQtransjobseekers2015.pdf

[Calligraphette_Coe]

52 minutes ago, nerdperson777 said:

@Calligraphette_Coe I've been told a lot that it's about the connections.  I don't talk to people much, which doesn't give me connections and I think my lack of experience even interacting with people puts me at a bigger disadvantage than some extrovert teenager who may not have gotten their high school diploma yet.  When I can't speak out my strong points, it just looks worse than a teenager who can state their more minor skills.  I'm not sure now.  I may just be currently stuck in a mentality where I question everything I do.  I have a friend who graduated the same time I did and I think we're stuck in a time in our lives where we're overqualified for something like a fast food worker but underqualified for so called entry level jobs.  I look up entry level jobs and they end up having a requirement of 3 years of experience or something.  I'm not really sure what to be applying for.  I've been looking at things like office assistant but I'm not sure how to get from there to something more my field (math).

Well, I've always been pretty introverted, too. And pretty much never overconfident. But, it's like being a bird-- nobody has to teach you how to fly, it just comes naturally. I see how you express yourself here and I'm impressed. I think you underestimate yourself, if I may be so bold. You may be a classic underdog of the type Malcom Gladwell wrote about in his recent book "David and Goliath:Underdogs, Misfits and the Art of Battling Giants". Such underdogs turn their disadvantages into advantages precisely because they KNOW in a dog eat dog world, they are willing to keep on working on their skills of the Hunt.

 

And in thinking about Malcolm Gladwell's books, I remembered a job that pays really well that may be up your alley as someone with a math degree. In another of his books, he mentions some of the best 'quants' who work on investment models in the financial sectors. Have you ever heard the term? I have a feeling to get in the upper echelons where the pay is 6 and seven figures will require a Ph.D., but I'd bet there are some pretty good jobs to be had below that level, too. 

 

Just a thought....

[nerdperson777]

12 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Well, I've always been pretty introverted, too. And pretty much never overconfident. But, it's like being a bird-- nobody has to teach you how to fly, it just comes naturally. I see how you express yourself here and I'm impressed. I think you underestimate yourself, if I may be so bold. You may be a classic underdog of the type Malcom Gladwell wrote about in his recent book "David and Goliath:Underdogs, Misfits and the Art of Battling Giants". Such underdogs turn their disadvantages into advantages precisely because they KNOW in a dog eat dog world, they are willing to keep on working on their skills of the Hunt.

 

And in thinking about Malcolm Gladwell's books, I remembered a job that pays really well that may be up your alley as someone with a math degree. In another of his books, he mentions some of the best 'quants' who work on investment models in the financial sectors. Have you ever heard the term? I have a feeling to get in the upper echelons where the pay is 6 and seven figures will require a Ph.D., but I'd bet there are some pretty good jobs to be had below that level, too. 

 

Just a thought....

I know I underestimate myself a lot.  It's hard to separate my thoughts from my parents when they told me who I was and I believed it.  I was only able to fly when I was away from them.  I look at things now and they don't make sense but there's nothing I can do about it.  The attitude made towards my education has not really been positive so I'm sorry when I don't understand the books you mention.  When books were just for studying, I couldn't understand why people would read for fun.  I get that I'm an underdog, but I have no idea how to release my potential.

 

I have thought about doing financial work, accounting, statistician and such but that requires more schooling.  I got burnt out purely studying for 17 years straight and doing practically nothing else, which is why I don't have experience in anything.  I want to get some experience before or if I want to go back studying.  And with the local universities, I think my only option for a Master's would be in Statistics since that university didn't ask for a GPA when many other programs are asking for undergraduate GPA of 3 or 3.2 or something high.  I believe that if I wasn't caught up in my mental illnesses, I could've really gotten a 3 or 3.5.  I look at the math classes and they aren't actually hard.  I just didn't have the motivation or good enough mentality to get any good grades in the last year or so.  And that kills me that I couldn't do my best.

[Busrider]

On ‎04‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 1:33 AM, nerdperson777 said:

It sounded like my different name was a burden to go through in the future. All future employers would have to be notified about this name and legally changing would make it less troublesome. I get that practically it is a problem but does that worker have to ask about it? 

Have you ever wondered how Smalltalk as a phenomenon works?

I guess a stranger like you triggers some topics via their appearance. I doubt that my Ex bosses somewhere told everybody about their Goldwing or hubby's Guzzi, but I was the new face above some leather jacket.

 

Is it that hard for you to provide an acceptable answer?

[nerdperson777]

Just now, Busrider said:

Have you ever wondered how Smalltalk as a phenomenon works?

I guess a stranger like you triggers some topics via their appearance. I doubt that my Ex bosses somewhere told everybody about their Goldwing or hubby's Guzzi, but I was the new face above some leather jacket.

 

Is it that hard for you to provide an acceptable answer?

Well I did say that since I haven't held a real job before, I'm in no position to change anything at this point.  It's not like I ignored it.

[Busrider]

Ah.

I think mentioning "dreams I couldn't afford yet" is not bad during interviews. - I assume employers like you to have some. - They make you less likely to run away for smallest imaginable reasons.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

46 minutes ago, nerdperson777 said:

I know I underestimate myself a lot.  It's hard to separate my thoughts from my parents when they told me who I was and I believed it.  I was only able to fly when I was away from them.  I look at things now and they don't make sense but there's nothing I can do about it.  The attitude made towards my education has not really been positive so I'm sorry when I don't understand the books you mention.  When books were just for studying, I couldn't understand why people would read for fun.  I get that I'm an underdog, but I have no idea how to release my potential.

 

I have thought about doing financial work, accounting, statistician and such but that requires more schooling.  I got burnt out purely studying for 17 years straight and doing practically nothing else, which is why I don't have experience in anything.  I want to get some experience before or if I want to go back studying.  And with the local universities, I think my only option for a Master's would be in Statistics since that university didn't ask for a GPA when many other programs are asking for undergraduate GPA of 3 or 3.2 or something high.  I believe that if I wasn't caught up in my mental illnesses, I could've really gotten a 3 or 3.5.  I look at the math classes and they aren't actually hard.  I just didn't have the motivation or good enough mentality to get any good grades in the last year or so.  And that kills me that I couldn't do my best.

You'd probably find Gladwell's books relevant, then, as well as finding them in the business section of better book stores. A lot of business people have read his books for insights into human behaviour and for business intelligence/psychology.

 

In 'David and Goliath' he speaks to your predicament and how some of the people who found themselves in it, too, went on to make indelible marks on a world that too often stressed competition to be the biggest fish in the biggest pond. His statistical analysis of wildly successful people often found that they instead utilized their talents in a way that assiduously avoided that paradigm. 

 

Take David Boies, the superlawyer who tried many high profile cases, such as the Microsoft anti-trust case. Boies is dyslexic. You'd think that would disqualify him for his being a lawyer, but here is what he told Gladwell:

 

Quote

 

When I talked to him, I said, 'How did you become such a successful lawyer in spite of this disability?' And he said, 'not in spite, I became a successful lawyer because of this so-called disability.' And he explained to me how he spent his life compensating for this."

"He learned how to listen, and he also developed an extraordinary memory. So he would sit in school, and he didn't take notes, he sat and listened to the teacher and remembered everything that was said. Those two skills turned out to be far more useful than you'd think in getting through school, but more importantly, when he becomes a trial lawyer, what's being a great trial lawyer all about? It's about listening very closely to what the person you're cross-examining is saying and being able to summon that in the moment. So he's famous for confronting the witness and saying, 'Three days ago, you said the following thing.' He'd been working on those skills his entire life."

 

 

[nerdperson777]

@Calligraphette_Coe I get what you mean.  Instead of fighting against the competition with the same skill, make the best use of a talent.  As I've learned in Tai Chi, it's not fighting head on, use the enemy's power against them.  It's not exact, but I get not to compete with the same thing.  How to get to the top is not necessarily by going the common route, can even be avoiding it all together.

 

I think I have a decent memory.  My parents often told me to write things down because they write things down.  I did write things down for a time but lately it might be depression.  I stopped writing things down but I never really forgotten anything too important for my classes.  I remembered when all my homework was due, when I had tests, when I had meetings.  ASD may have given me selective memory.  This is all just about academic stuff though.  Lately I haven't remembered what companies I applied to or what job they had available.

 

But really, with a memory like that, one doesn't really need to study.  Studying for exams is really saying that one doesn't know what they need to know and is just giving people time to fake what they know just for the grade.  i'm good with facts but I doubt that really helps with the independent thinking one thinks of someone with a college degree.