discussion of forms of attraction

[binary suns]

In my observation I have concluded the following:

there are three main forms of sexual attraction commonly discussed. Sometimes the forms occur seamlessly together.

The first form could be describe as sexual admiration:
when a person feels drawn, appreciative, or affectionate towards another person in a way they feel is sexual.

What makes sexual admiration clearly identifiable, is that there is a specific person the attention focuses on or notices. Desire to engage in activities with that person may occur, but desire may also be less strong, delayed, or even not at all present.

Some examples of how sexual admiration is felt could be: subtle arousal is felt in the groin or erogenous zones when associating with or thinking of the person; or the admired person is imagined in sexual poses, nude in an erotic manner, or engaging in sexual scenarios; or focus of attention is on the person that feels sexual in some way.

The second form could be described as sexual desire:
when a person experiences a wish, need, drive, or similar interest in sexual activity, contact, or relations.

What makes sexual desire distinct is that there is an interest or desire for sexual action. A identified person may or may not be associated with this desire. Examples may include a longing for sexual contact and engagement; or a need to have sex; or excitement or similar drive for sexual contact. Note that these desires sometimes do not arise until sexual contact is near or engaged in; and that these desires could exist without being directed towards other individuals.

Also included in sexual desire would be any desires that result from feelings of sexual admiration: the story of "admiring someone sexually leads to desire for sex" is the most common assumption of what "Sexual attraction" means; however, it is certainly Not the only way in which sexual attraction occurs.

The third form of sexual attraction could be described as:
sexual interest in an object, idea, or character, which isn't another human.

Examples of this form of attraction are: objectum-sexuality; sexual interest in fictional characters; sexual interest in imagined characters through fantasy. Also, for example, sexual attachment to an individual model when consuming pornographic material, but a lack of interest in meeting with said model; an attachment to the pornographic art or the character, rather than an interest in being sexual with the human depicted.

This form of attraction involves a subject of admiration and/or desire. If there isn't a specific individual that is the focus of this sexual interest, then instead it would fall into the realm of eroticism and kink, such as an interest in rope play, or use of sex toys.

this form of attraction covers a lot of various ground that may be enough different, that naming this form could lead to controversy.


There is a fourth form of sexual experience, that is called libido. Libido may exist independently of any of the above three categories, as such it is not considered a form of sexual attraction. This may be described as:
1) feelings of arousal that seem random or lack patterns associated with anyone external.
2) a need or desire for stimulating touching that one accomplishes by themselves. (note that engaging in self-stimulation in the presence of a companion, or even sexual contact, may in some circumstances still be considered engaging one's libido)

I have observed the following:
- most asexuals do not feel the first or second forms of attraction
- many asexuals do feel the third form of sexual attraction

- many asexuals do feel libido
- some asexuals do feel low levels of either of the first or second form of sexual attraction
- most people who feel low levels of both of the first two forms consider themselves gray
- many greys feel either the first or the second form of attraction regularly, but have never felt the other form

..> many of these greys initially ID as asexual, and this causes controversy and often leads to flaming
- some greysexuals feel that while their feelings of attraction are sometimes strong enough, that the feelings are too unreliable, low-level, or fleeting, and make a normal sexual relationship undesirable.

- not all sexual people feel both of the first two forms of sexual attraction in full, but do not feel that that merits reason for them to question their sexuality.

[binary suns]

TLDR.

- sexual admiration is when sexual feelings towards another human are felt. this may not include desire for activity.

- sexual desire is when sexual interaction is desired. this may exists without any individual as the focus of desire.

- the third form of attraction includes but is not limited to objectum-sexuality, sexual fantasy, sexual interest in fictional characters, and attachment to characters or stories during use of porn or smut

- libido is also sexual activity, however it is not always linked to any of the forms of attraction, and can be enjoyed with on one's own

additionally

- most asexuals feel neither admiration nor desire

- some asexuals enjoy how they feel the third form of attraction, some who experience the third form consider themselves grey

- many greys feel either admiration or desire, but never the other

- many other greys feel both admiration and desire, but still feel not-quite-sexual

- some sexuals don't feel one of either admiration or desire strongly or at all, but do not feel a need to doubt their being sexual

[Snao Cone]

The third form of attraction is the only kind I've ever felt. Even if the person I find attractive is right in front of me I'm not at all inclined to engage in sexual activity with them. This is how I got into my 30s before thinking I wasn't sexual.

The distinction between the first two seems like the distinction between "physical and/or emotional pleasure" that Pan and possibly Star Bit have included in their definitions. I think it's very important to make it clear that these are both entirely sexual feelings even though it can be argued for both that they're not "sexual attraction" (for the first "it's not because of their body that I want to be with them, I just like them enough to want to share intimate moments just like any couple" and for the second "I love sex but I'm not attracted to people, you know?"). Call this flaming if you want, but if sexual activity is part of your ideal relationship, that's sexual.

[binary suns]

I don't see how that'd be flaming. You're just saying your mind.

How is physical and/or emotional pleasure different from libido? if a person likes playing with a toy, what difference does it make if, for them, flesh is the toy sometimes? can a line be drawn, or at least a transient gray-area?

(edited for clarity)

[Lost247365]

Where would a cross dreamer/ autogynephiliac like myself fall in this spectrum? Feels like I am at the crossroads of type 3 and 4.

[Guest]

I don't see how that'd be flaming. You're just saying your mind.

How is physical and/or emotional pleasure different from libido?

Because someone can have Iibido issues, or even be fuIIy castrated (so their body doesn't create sex hormones or become aroused sexuaIIy) and stiII desire the intimacy experienced through sexuaI interaction with a Ioving partner (as many sexuaI peopIe wiII teII you, sexuaI intimacy a very specific type of intimacy that other acts can't repIicate for many peopIe. You can desire that sexuaI intimacy and the emotionaI pIeasure it brings without caring so much about the physicaI pIeasure of the act itseIf.)

if a person likes playing with a toy, what difference does it make if, for them, flesh is the toy sometimes? can a line be drawn, or at least a transient gray-area?

..If the 'toy' someone Ioves pIaying with is other peopIes penises or vaginas, because pIaying with those ''toys'' and giving other peopIe sexuaI pIeasure and/or orgasm makes that person feeI so good physicaIIy and/or emotionaIIy (even just emotionaIIy) no one wouId deny that person has sexuaI desire/desire for sexuaI intimacy (even if they can't get aroused themseIves, but Iove giving orgasms to others - That's stiII sexuaI and I have met sexuaI peopIe Iike that)

[Snao Cone]

How is physical and/or emotional pleasure different from libido? if a person likes playing with a toy, what difference does it make if, for them, flesh is the toy sometimes? can a line be drawn, or at least a transient gray-area?

If they like it when flesh is the toy, then I'd say they're sexual to some degree. For what it's worth, I have tried masturbating with toys and it's reduced my enjoyment, especially if it's phallic shaped. You can't even say "She wants the D" for me when the D stands for dildo :P

[binary suns]

Where would a cross dreamer/ autogynephiliac like myself fall in this spectrum? Feels like I am at the crossroads of type 3 and 4.

crossdreaming is about dreaming or daydreaming of yourself as a different gender? and then your question is , when this is a sexual dream, how does this play into the forms of attraction? this is an interesting point, it brings up the question of, when does an imagined self become identical to the real self, and likewise, what separates an imagined character from the real human?

I would say that it certainly falls into is form 3. Personally if I imagined a pseudo-self involved with a real human, I would consider it in one of the first two forms, however I do not know of enough cases to say what the trend is in the community regarding this. actually, maybe depending on experience, it could then be considered lithrosexuality, or at least similar to it. I do not currently have much of an idea of where lithro fits, whether it'd be in form 1 or 2, or form 3, and it might just be something that the individual discovers for themselves.

In my observation, most people who only experience form 3 ID more on the ace side of sexuality, but there are also some grey people and rare sexual people who only feel form 3.

[binary suns]

"Because someone can have Iibido issues, or even be fuIIy castrated"

"If they like it when flesh is the toy, then I'd say they're sexual to some degree. "

yes both of these examples are easy to agree with, but they are also both further away from where the libido versus sex drive discussion is concerned about. if someone has no libido or is castrated and still wants contact from a partner, it's obvious they are feeling sexual attraction. and, if someone likes it better when the flesh is the toy, they're clearly experiencing, likely form 2, sexual attraction on some degree. (also, let's not get into the discussion of is this ace or sexual, as the point of this thread is to lay a new foundation in considering sexual attraction for the sake of discussing sexual attraction)

but, when a person has sufficient libido, and is fully functional for sexual intercourse: what is the difference between experiencing one's libido being satisfied, and experiencing one's sex drive being satisfied? A person could say that they are indifferent between toy and sex, but like or enjoy both. then what? enjoying sex has for longer than this site was popular, been deemed as possible for an asexual to experience, so if a person says "well I seem to like sex with my partner" that just isn't enough for them to determine if they are experiencing sexual desire. "like" maybe be stronger of a word than "enjoy" but it's so close that people might hear and think of it as indifference.

what could they be asked, or told, to help guide them in understanding whether they're in type 2, sexual desire, or type 4, libido?

when libido is in association with a certain person, or even with cuddling, it's easy to say that sexual attraction of type 1 must be involved in some way. but when libido is in association with sex, what draws the line? stimulating one's organs does, in fact, satisfy libido - so how can someone differ from that, and sexual desire?

(edited to cut out unnecessary wording, and add in a few sentences for clarity)