Making love vs. having sex

[Tarfeather]

Yep, that's their own pain, I imagine they understand that. I understand their feelings too but you don't seem expect this to be reciprocal.

My partner does not feel that pain. And no, I don't 'expect' anything of anyone; But of course I believe that a person will care about their beloved's pain, even if they happen to be asexual and their partner's pain is related to sex. Thing is, if you look up at how this sub-discussion got started, it had a lot to do with High Drive claiming not to experience any misery and in fact being happier than ever.

[Tarfeather]

High Drive, the crucial point that you seem to be missing is that I'm sexual.

[Telecaster68]

"My partner does not feel that pain."

I'd have trouble reconciling the idea that someone loved me but felt no pain at my pain, I have to admit.

"And no, I don't 'expect' anything of anyone; But of course I believe that a person will care about their beloved's pain, even if they happen to be asexual and their partner's pain is related to sex."

How is 'expecting' different from believing someone will act or feel a certain way? They're literally synonymous.

[Tarfeather]

"My partner does not feel that pain."

I'd have trouble reconciling the idea that someone loved me but felt no pain at my pain, I have to admit.

Oh, I never said she loved me, either..

"And no, I don't 'expect' anything of anyone; But of course I believe that a person will care about their beloved's pain, even if they happen to be asexual and their partner's pain is related to sex."

How is 'expecting' different from believing someone will act or feel a certain way? They're literally synonymous.

Let me clarify. When you love someone, I consider it likely to care about their various pains, but by no means necessary.

[Telecaster68]

'Likely' would be why I expect it.

And your relationship is different to what I understood.

[Guest]

High Drive, the crucial point that you seem to be missing is that I'm sexual.*

* but has never done anything even coming close to sex (yes, I think that's incredibly relevant)

[Guest]

I think that's totally untrue. Accepting someone else's feelings does not mean adopting them or ignoring your own.

If it's so very important to understand asexual partners, wouldn't that moral imperative go both ways?

That's an interesting quandry, isn't it? You might say, because the sexual is able to experience what the asexual experiences, but not vice verca, they're the only one who even has the option of understanding the other.

But that's kind of beside the point. It's not about morals or accepting your partner. The desire to have sex with a specific person, is a very specific thing. It won't have substance if it's not created around the reality of that person. That would be so even with a sexual partner. If your desire makes you feel disconnected and shut out, unable to communicate, then the way to solve that problem is to connect those desires to the actual person, not to your own internal drives. It's not about your partner, it's about you and your relationship.

And you're basing this universally simple way to never have sex and be happy about it on what, exactly?

[HighDrive]

High Drive, the crucial point that you seem to be missing is that I'm sexual.

Indeed I did. I was even going to ask if you were an asexual with a loving partner because I was confounded with yor comments.

I'm writing on the phone e and it doesn't show the usual poster profile on the post :D

[Tarfeather]

'Likely' would be why I expect it.

You should also expect unlikely possibilities.

High Drive, the crucial point that you seem to be missing is that I'm sexual.*

* but has never done anything even coming close to sex (yes, I think that's incredibly relevant)

It's irrelevant to the statement I'm making that your sexual orientation doesn't necessarily shape your view about sex in the way it did High Drive's.

And you're basing this universally simple way to never have sex and be happy about it on what, exactly?

It's universally simple precisely because it requires to give up on the notion of being "happy about it".

[Telecaster68]

"You should also expect unlikely possibilities."

No I shouldn't. If something is unlikely to happen, it makes no sense to expect it. I could be aware that it's possible if unlikely, actually expecting that something unlikely will happen is silly.

[Tarfeather]

So seatbelts are silly?

[Telecaster68]

No they're precautionary. I don't go out expecting to have a crash, but if I do, they'll help. In the meantime, I'm working on the basis I'll reach my destination safely because that's overwhelmingly more likely to happen, based on experience and statistics.

Or turn it round. It's unlikely but possible I'll get run over and killed today. I can't live my life on the basis I'll die today though as I'd spend all my time saying goodbye to my nearest and dearest and never planning ahead.

[HighDrive]

So seatbelts are silly?

seatbelt a are likely to help in case of an accident.

Silly would be to drive always worried about an accident.

(Aren't we derailing the thread?)

[Tarfeather]

No. To get back to the actual topic of discussion, it would be silly of me not to understand and accept my girlfriend as she is, only because it's unlikely for her to be the way she is. Of course it's unlikely. Every person is unique, hence unlikely. Approaching an individual with some kind of expectations derived from statistics about the general human population is insane.

[Telecaster68]

In other words the whole concept of 'unlikely' just doesn't apply because we're talking about a specific case.

In summary, it's fine with you that your girlfriend doesn't care if you're happy or not. I don't think many people would share that attitude, regardless of sexuality.

[Guest]

HighDrive, I do see your point, HOWEVER, the physical act is the same. You are still putting a penis in a vagina (or whatever) and thus, an asexual is going to feel the same things they do, whether it's love or pure carnal pleasure.

I don't know, I could be missing the point here.

You are, and it's pretty much inevitable, because you're asexual. I'm not being snide, just observing.

I suspect it tends to get referred to as 'sex' on AVEN because asexuals have no way to appreciate the intensity of the positive emotional charge for sexuals, beyond in a fairly superficial way. They get it intellectually, but not emotionally, it's baffling, the same way that sexuals are limited when it comes to understanding asexuals are not rejecting their parters as people.

And since for obvious reasons, asexuality terminology is the dominant discourse on AVEN, 'making love' doesn't get mentioned much. We sexuals could start bandying it around, but it would just get blank looks.

ETA: a vital 'not'...

I can't reply to everything in this thread as I am in a hurry, but I just wanted to point out that any time I refer to ''partnered sex'' I am meaning in any form, for any reason. It is all still sex at the end of the day, even though yes the meaning and emotional intensity of it varies from person to person and depending on their reasons for engaging in it etc. Making love and having casual sex with a stranger at a bar are of course vastly different experiences. Many asexuals experience the difference ourselves in other ways ie the difference between passionately kissing a lover or having a drunken face-smoosh with a stranger at a bar. Same action, utterly different experiences (because one is deeply intimate and emotional, the other is just the physical act itself).. but it's still both ''kissing''.

I refer to ''making love'' practically every time I discuss sexuality here, when I include the word ''emotional'' in my definition. Making love is a deeply emotional experience, and many sexual people desire that for the emotions involved with that deeply personal, vulnerable, loving sexual intimacy, as opposed to just for the sex act itself (which you can have with anyone willing).

Anyway, I'm not the only one here who understands the difference between making love and ''having sex'', many of us do. But if we were to outline every single type of sex every time we talk about sex (which is all day every day, pretty much) already long posts would become much longer .. So we just say ''sex'' and hope that people automatically understand we are meaning ''the act of sex, regardless of whether that's making love or fucking a hot stranger's brains out''.

Yes there are asexuals who don't understand the difference, but there are also plenty of sexuals who don't understand the difference either (as evidenced by the amount of times you see a sexual person using the term ''making love'' in reference to ''casual sex'')

Also, many romantic asexuals desire and enjoy the act of 'making love' with our lovers too. But for us, that just doesn't include a desire for partnered sex. And yes, we understand that 'making love' isn't ''just the act of sex with emotions involved'' for sexuals either.. It's the slow kissing, the gentle touching, the gazing into each others eyes and melting in each others gaze, it's kissing your lovers fingertips and eyelids and just.. becoming one through your love. Yep, we get it, many of us desire it just as much as you do (but having that leading to sex every time we try to 'make love' with a sexual partner ruins it for us, just as us not wanting to have sex with you ruins it for you)

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that a lot of people on this site are just ..erm.. ''naive'' about practically everything to do with sexuality, which is why they are identifying as asexual (often not realizing they are in fact a normal sexual who just hasn't had enough experience yet to know that).. It's not surprising they don't realize there is a difference when they also don't understand many of the basic fundamentals of sex and masturbation etc. Not understanding the inherent difference between having sex and making love is not really an ''asexual'' thing, it's more just an ignorance thing. And again, many sexual people are just as confused about this as many 'aces' here. In that you often see sexual people calling all sex acts 'making love', no matter who it's with or what the reason is behind it. These sexuals pretty much just use the term ''making love'' in place of ''fucking some hot person'' ..I see this all the time off AVEN and it has always bugged me, despite my inherent asexuality. I have always known there is a huge difference between ''making love'' and ''having casual sex with a random''

[Autumn Season]

I'm on an online dating site and there was a question how the user feels about the phrase "making love". I answered I thought it was beautiful (despite not wanting sex for myself). Plenty of other users, who are sexual, answered it was an annoying phrase, naive and so on. (I don't remember which exact reply-options there were.) In other words not using "making love" is not asexuality-related.

[Guest]

I'm on an online dating site and there was a question how the user feels about the phrase "making love". I answered I thought it was beautiful (despite not wanting sex for myself). Plenty of other users, who are sexual, answered it was an annoying phrase, naive and so on. (I don't remember which exact reply-options there were.) In other words not using "making love" is not asexuality-related.

If we are talking about the same site, I answered ''it refers to a specific kind of sex''.. I only reply to users who message me if they have either that or ''it's beautiful'' as their answer, because that shows to me they have an understanding of being able to separate emotional intimacy from casual sex (whereas those who answer ''it's naive'', clearly see sex as sex regardless of the emotions behind it or who it is with or whatever, and most of them are on that site only looking for casual sex anyway) ..But yeah the vast majority of sexual users I have seen on there answer ''it's naive'' or ''it's annoying'' and to be honest, I've noticed that more aces answer ''it refers to a specific kind of sex'' or ''I think it's beautiful''.

[Ace of Amethysts]

I personally have come to despise the term "making love" in reference to sex.

[HighDrive]

All valid points.

My post is to breach the gap of understanding that can alow your loving sexual partner to express their feelings with out aces feeling defensive.

Please note that I'm not talking about "any" relationship but specifically a loving one with an accepting alo partner.

Just talking about our feelings is cathartic and may help on the relationship.

[HighDrive]

I personally have come to despise the term "making love" in reference to sex and I see sex as an act motivated purely by sexual attraction or desire devoid of romance.

Good. The same way you express that as your view and I accept it as true for you. You can hear what someone else says and accept it as true for them. I think that's where the understanding starts.

[Guest]

I personally have come to despise the term "making love" in reference to sex and I see sex as an act motivated purely by sexual attraction or desire devoid of romance.

hmmm that's the sort of thing that makes people think asexuals are naive :lol: ..''Making love'' is a deeply emotional form of intimacy between two people who are romantically in love with each other. Yes for sexuals ''making love'' usually refers to ''people who are in love with each other experiencing emotional sexual intimacy together'' (though there is much more to it than just the sex act) but it's very different than ''casual sex'' or ''devoid of romance'' because ''making love'' is an expression of romantic love. It can only be done when two people are in love with each other, because that's what makes it ''lovemaking''. There are so many feelings and emotions involved that are not present when one is merely ''having sex with someone willing because sex feels good'' ..it's pretty much an entirely different act, with a lot of the same physical actions involved.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that there are certain times sex is only desired and enjoyed as an intimate expression of one's love for another (and they may not find their partner ''sexually attractive'' at all.. some people just don't experience that) ..Sex can be a deeply emotional, very moving experience when two people who are in love have sex as an expression of that love.

However, you are still allowed to despise the term ''making love'' of course :P I just felt it was important to try to clarify the difference between ''lovemaking'' and '' sex as an act motivated purely by sexual attraction or desire devoid of romance.''

All valid points.

My post is to breach the gap of understanding that can alow your loving sexual partner to express their feelings with out aces feeling defensive.

Please note that I'm not talking about "any" relationship but specifically a loving one with an accepting alo partner.

Just talking about our feelings is cathartic and may help on the relationship.

I confess I am a little confused (I possibly missed something you said where you were explaining your meaning, sorry if that's the case) .. Are you saying that, if the asexual could understand that the sexuals desire for sex is a desire to express love, this would make it easier for the asexual to accept the sexual?

I only ask, because I know that many asexuals do understand that it's not merely a physical act their sexual partner desires, but the emotional intimacy of lovemaking.

This makes it worse, because if it was only a physical thing, our partner could just masturbate and be happy. But we know we are denying them something deeply, emotionally pleasurable that they desire as an integral aspect of their love for us.. and that makes it harder, not easier. It's awful knowing that the person you love is suffering so much. (in saying that though, there is the other maybe, half? of asexuals, who don't understand why their partner wants sex with them, and believe the partner should be able to just forget about sex)

Pretty much, whether an ace understands the emotional needs their partner has (because to me, lovemaking is an emotional need more than a physical one) or whether the ace is utterly clueless, at least one person, probably both, in the relationship are almost always going to be miserable when it comes to the sexual disparity. That is practically unavoidable in a mixed relationship. YES, there are examples of mixed relationships working long-term, but they are are few and far between and almost always still have issues regarding sex (or lack thereof)

Also, HighDrive, it's just as common for the asexual partner to give their partner sex as often as the partner needs, in which case you usually have one extremely unhappy asexual, and a sexual who is also kind of annoyed because while they are getting sex, it's not the type of sex they desire (because the asexual isn't able to desire it and enjoy it in the way a sexual can, on an emotional and physical level) ..So it goes both ways.

Sure, talking about how important lovemaking is to you might help you feel better, but I know I would never go on to a sexual partner about just how bad sex makes me feel.. as long as they know it and are aware of it I'd leave it at that. Or else I'd only be making them feel miserable and guilty for wanting it from me.. Which is usually exactly how the ace feels when you're trying to explain how important sex is and what it's like for you missing out on lovemaking. We know, and it only makes us feel shitter for not being able to give it to you.

Pretty much, understanding is healthy. If you can at least understand where the other is coming from (no pun intended :P) and why the other feels the way they do, that's good! But to drag it out and continue talking about it will only prolong guilt and pain, imo. It serves nothing but to make the other feel guilty (whether that's the ace going on about how much sex hurts them emotionally, or the sexual going on about how much they hurt emotionally without sex) ..

Rather than bitching to each other, you're better off trying to come up with solutions. Some way you can both have your needs met. Maybe if you kiss and cuddle while the sexual masturbates or something? just something that can fulfill the asexuals desire to be loved without sex, and the sexuals desire to have sex as an expression of love.

However, my main piece of advice to anyone reading is: If you know you're ace, try not to get into a sexual relationship because it'll probably end in tears with a lot of suffering for you and your sexual partner. And if you're sexual, don't go thinking ''I'm fine without sex, I could happily be in a relationship with this ace chick I like'' ...It's just gonna get messy, fast. (and if you got into the relationship before the ace knew they were asexual, well... tough cookies :lol: been there, done that, yeah it sucks.. You can only try to find solutions to make it work for you both or be miserable, pretty much)

[Guest]

HighDrive, I do see your point, HOWEVER, the physical act is the same. You are still putting a penis in a vagina (or whatever) and thus, an asexual is going to feel the same things they do, whether it's love or pure carnal pleasure.

I don't know, I could be missing the point here.

I will disagree with this. I find "making love" A LOT easier to handle, as a compromise, than when it's for carnal pleasure. It's ... usually sweeter and less, well, icky. When it's about the sex, without the feeling behind it, it feels a whole lot worse. There is a certain, erm, how to explain it. Emotional energy difference? I dunno how to make it make sense. But, the actions are the same, the passion behind it is different. And, even though I don't have any of those desires, I can feel the difference in what is coming from them.

Prefer not to have it either way, but it coming from love rather than wanting to get off, totally makes it easier.

[Guest]

HighDrive, I do see your point, HOWEVER, the physical act is the same. You are still putting a penis in a vagina (or whatever) and thus, an asexual is going to feel the same things they do, whether it's love or pure carnal pleasure.

I don't know, I could be missing the point here.

I will disagree with this. I find "making love" A LOT easier to handle, as a compromise, than when it's for carnal pleasure. It's ... usually sweeter and less, well, icky. When it's about the sex, without the feeling behind it, it feels a whole lot worse. There is a certain, erm, how to explain it. Emotional energy difference? I dunno how to make it make sense. But, the actions are the same, the passion behind it is different. And, even though I don't have any of those desires, I can feel the difference in what is coming from them.

Prefer not to have it either way, but it coming from love rather than wanting to get off, totally makes it easier.

Yeah I can agree with all that.

[HighDrive]

Re-clarification.

This thread has nothing to do with convincing an ace to have sex. For love or otherwise.

It is about aces to be able to listen to their alo living partners feelings without being defensive or feeling pressure to have sex.

Once my ace gf and I got to that point, it was as liberating for me as it was for her to understand she was ace and I accepted her.

[Guest]

Re-clarification.

This thread has nothing to do with convincing an ace to have sex. For love or otherwise.

I didn't notice anyone saying otherwise?

[Tarfeather]

Also, many romantic asexuals desire and enjoy the act of 'making love' with our lovers too. But for us, that just doesn't include a desire for partnered sex. And yes, we understand that 'making love' isn't ''just the act of sex with emotions involved'' for sexuals either.. It's the slow kissing, the gentle touching, the gazing into each others eyes and melting in each others gaze, it's kissing your lovers fingertips and eyelids and just.. becoming one through your love. Yep, we get it, many of us desire it just as much as you do (but having that leading to sex every time we try to 'make love' with a sexual partner ruins it for us, just as us not wanting to have sex with you ruins it for you)

If my partner desired that, I wouldn't have much reason to complain. Mind, she does seem to desire it in some way, but the desire is really weak and seems to build incredibly slowly over time. We've been together almost two years now, and her ability to share this kind of intimacy is still growing, very slowly growing.

Wait.. you said she was aromantic in another thread, right? Great, now I have to dig that up and answer there..

I'm on an online dating site and there was a question how the user feels about the phrase "making love". I answered I thought it was beautiful (despite not wanting sex for myself). Plenty of other users, who are sexual, answered it was an annoying phrase, naive and so on. (I don't remember which exact reply-options there were.) In other words not using "making love" is not asexuality-related.

If we are talking about the same site, I answered ''it refers to a specific kind of sex''.. I only reply to users who message me if they have either that or ''it's beautiful'' as their answer, because that shows to me they have an understanding of being able to separate emotional intimacy from casual sex (whereas those who answer ''it's naive'', clearly see sex as sex regardless of the emotions behind it or who it is with or whatever, and most of them are on that site only looking for casual sex anyway) ..But yeah the vast majority of sexual users I have seen on there answer ''it's naive'' or ''it's annoying'' and to be honest, I've noticed that more aces answer ''it refers to a specific kind of sex'' or ''I think it's beautiful''.

Pretty sure I answered with naive / annoying as well. The reason being that the way the phrase is used the vast majority of the time, is naive and hence annoying. If "making love", the way you see it, referred to well, "making love", and not necessarily to sex, I would see it differently, but as long as it by definition refers to sex, I find anyone using the phrase to be naive (specifically about asexuality).

I confess I am a little confused (I possibly missed something you said where you were explaining your meaning, sorry if that's the case) .. Are you saying that, if the asexual could understand that the sexuals desire for sex is a desire to express love, this would make it easier for the asexual to accept the sexual?

Let's not open that pandora's box.

I only ask, because I know that many asexuals do understand that it's not merely a physical act their sexual partner desires, but the emotional intimacy of lovemaking.

Actually, for me that's different. I do desire "lovemaking" with my partner, but not necessarily in the form of sex. I do desire sex with my partner, but not necessarily for emotional intimacy, but rather, yes as a result of "sexual attraction" aka finding her to be "hot". I can separate the two in my mind pretty well. They're different desires, and the former only developed slowly over the course of the relationship, whereas the latter was present from the start.

This makes it worse, because if it was only a physical thing, our partner could just masturbate and be happy. But we know we are denying them something deeply, emotionally pleasurable that they desire as an integral aspect of their love for us.. and that makes it harder, not easier. It's awful knowing that the person you love is suffering so much. (in saying that though, there is the other maybe, half? of asexuals, who don't understand why their partner wants sex with them, and believe the partner should be able to just forget about sex)

I would like to point out, that desiring sex to satisfy your.. let's say more primal urges.. can't be replaced by masturbation, either. It's more to do with confidence and feeling desirable and all that. You want someone, preferably someone you find attractive, to sexually desire you. This is not "making love" or a sign of a deep emotional connection, but neither is it purely physical.

Pretty much, whether an ace understands the emotional needs their partner has (because to me, lovemaking is an emotional need more than a physical one) or whether the ace is utterly clueless, at least one person, probably both, in the relationship are almost always going to be miserable when it comes to the sexual disparity. That is practically unavoidable in a mixed relationship. YES, there are examples of mixed relationships working long-term, but they are are few and far between and almost always still have issues regarding sex (or lack thereof)

However, my main piece of advice to anyone reading is: If you know you're ace, try not to get into a sexual relationship because it'll probably end in tears with a lot of suffering for you and your sexual partner. And if you're sexual, don't go thinking ''I'm fine without sex, I could happily be in a relationship with this ace chick I like'' ...It's just gonna get messy, fast. (and if you got into the relationship before the ace knew they were asexual, well... tough cookies :lol: been there, done that, yeah it sucks.. You can only try to find solutions to make it work for you both or be miserable, pretty much)

I'm not sure. Do you know, not having any kind of affection or intimacy from your "preferred" sex, is much worse IMO. I've spent around 10 years having a strong desire for "romance", and yet never was loved in all that time. It's painful. It brought me far enough that I saw no point in living, and just wanted the suffering to end. In comparison, doing without sex is.. meh. I struggled a lot, as you know, but unlike the complete lack of romance, it's something you can overcome and learn to deal with. And I think a lot of my earlier struggling, was a result of my partner not viewing me as so important in general. Our relationship has grown closer in other ways than sex, and I've become increasingly content with the situation.

So, in my humble opinion, if your only issue in your relationship is the sexual situation, that's almost like a "first world problem". Yes, sure, it can hurt a lot, and you will be lacking something very important. But ultimately, it's something you can do without, it's not something you really need to live a life worth living. Being completely alone, is on a total different level, and I'm very grateful to God or whoever is making the decisions, for bringing C. into my life. I often feel I don't even deserve that much.

[m4rble]

I'm on an online dating site and there was a question how the user feels about the phrase "making love". I answered I thought it was beautiful (despite not wanting sex for myself). Plenty of other users, who are sexual, answered it was an annoying phrase, naive and so on. (I don't remember which exact reply-options there were.) In other words not using "making love" is not asexuality-related.

If we are talking about the same site, I answered ''it refers to a specific kind of sex''.. I only reply to users who message me if they have either that or ''it's beautiful'' as their answer, because that shows to me they have an understanding of being able to separate emotional intimacy from casual sex (whereas those who answer ''it's naive'', clearly see sex as sex regardless of the emotions behind it or who it is with or whatever, and most of them are on that site only looking for casual sex anyway) ..But yeah the vast majority of sexual users I have seen on there answer ''it's naive'' or ''it's annoying'' and to be honest, I've noticed that more aces answer ''it refers to a specific kind of sex'' or ''I think it's beautiful''.

Honestly, I would probably say I found the phrase annoying. It reminds me of the romantic tropes in movies that always seem over-dramaticized imo and make me want to gag.

Also, many romantic asexuals desire and enjoy the act of 'making love' with our lovers too. But for us, that just doesn't include a desire for partnered sex. And yes, we understand that 'making love' isn't ''just the act of sex with emotions involved'' for sexuals either.. It's the slow kissing, the gentle touching, the gazing into each others eyes and melting in each others gaze, it's kissing your lovers fingertips and eyelids and just.. becoming one through your love. Yep, we get it, many of us desire it just as much as you do (but having that leading to sex every time we try to 'make love' with a sexual partner ruins it for us, just as us not wanting to have sex with you ruins it for you)

That sounds kind of nice, but I honestly don't really get it. I also don't see how this really would be related to sex. I accept that sex is a very emotional experience for many people, but I can't really empathize very well with that because I haven't felt it myself.

[Tarfeather]

Also, many romantic asexuals desire and enjoy the act of 'making love' with our lovers too. But for us, that just doesn't include a desire for partnered sex. And yes, we understand that 'making love' isn't ''just the act of sex with emotions involved'' for sexuals either.. It's the slow kissing, the gentle touching, the gazing into each others eyes and melting in each others gaze, it's kissing your lovers fingertips and eyelids and just.. becoming one through your love. Yep, we get it, many of us desire it just as much as you do (but having that leading to sex every time we try to 'make love' with a sexual partner ruins it for us, just as us not wanting to have sex with you ruins it for you)

That sounds kind of nice, but I honestly don't really get it. I also don't see how this really would be related to sex. I accept that sex is a very emotional experience for many people, but I can't really empathize very well with that because I haven't felt it myself.

Wait, really? Even my partner understands that aspect of it a little, and she's very close to being aro/ace..

[m4rble]

Also, many romantic asexuals desire and enjoy the act of 'making love' with our lovers too. But for us, that just doesn't include a desire for partnered sex. And yes, we understand that 'making love' isn't ''just the act of sex with emotions involved'' for sexuals either.. It's the slow kissing, the gentle touching, the gazing into each others eyes and melting in each others gaze, it's kissing your lovers fingertips and eyelids and just.. becoming one through your love. Yep, we get it, many of us desire it just as much as you do (but having that leading to sex every time we try to 'make love' with a sexual partner ruins it for us, just as us not wanting to have sex with you ruins it for you)

That sounds kind of nice, but I honestly don't really get it. I also don't see how this really would be related to sex. I accept that sex is a very emotional experience for many people, but I can't really empathize very well with that because I haven't felt it myself.

Wait, really? Even my partner understands that aspect of it a little, and she's very close to being aro/ace..

Maybe I do, I definately understand the appeal of cuddling. I'm not too enthusiastic about kissing, but touching someone I love might feel good. It depends on how the terms are defined I guess. Sometimes someone will describe sex in such a way that it sounds very appealing, like when they say they feel they're becoming a part of another person. However, when I try to relate this description to the act of sex itself, it seems like there's a disconnect.