A slightly strange request for sexual partners (Minor TMI warning)

[The Great WTF]

This is an odd one for me and I'm hoping I can get a little input to provide clarity for me and the couple I'm helping. To make a long story short, a good friend of mine came to me for help on how to deal with her boyfriend's strange sexual appetite. They're both very sexual people with a taste for SnM, but the problem is that he's JUST into SnM. He can't become aroused at all by vanilla sex. Full stop. For my friend, it's a horrible spot to be in because, while she loves SnM, she also enjoys simple lovemaking. The total lack of it is starting to wear her down and she's beginning to resent a fetish she used to love.

When she confronted him with this, his response was "We'll just have to go without sex, then." The response, naturally, made me think of the asexual community. Neither of us have much hope for making this work, but she loves him and wants to try, so she's going to send him an email detailing her feelings and I'm hoping we can get a little input here that can help her put into words what she wants to share with him.

Anyone got any words of advice that might help either of them? This guy isn't my favorite person in the world but he makes my friend happy and he's shown potential. I hope we can find a way to either bring them both peace or find a comfortable compromise. For once in my life, I'm at a loss for words.

[Vivi]

this is just something i notice: he seems kind of selfish. its almost as if he doesnt get what he wants then neither of them. can a possible "what if i said we could only have vanilla sex or none at all" reversal work? maybe that would be a starting point? Im sorry if this was no help?

[Midnight-Poetry]

this is just something i notice: he seems kind of selfish. its almost as if he doesnt get what he wants then neither of them. can a possible "what if i said we could only have vanilla sex or none at all" reversal work? maybe that would be a starting point? Im sorry if this was no help?

True to an extent, except for the note that he simply can't get aroused except during SnM. Going to the hard extreme opposite seems to be a bad idea here. If he *actually* can't aroused in normal situations, then maybe trying to take steps to ease him into those situations might help. Things like trying to use physical stimulation to get him aroused before hand, etc.

However, there is not guarantee that the above would work if he really is *that* reliant on SnM.

Though, if it is out of selfishness... then I'd agree the harder approach might be more justified.

[Azure.Providence]

Sounds really really selfish of him.

I know of a couple who have been married for 20 years and the guy has a huge thing for having his genitals tortured by a woman. Its not the wives biggest thing in the world but she makes it work. She has found ways to satisfy her needs for sex while also satisfying his needs to be hurt by a woman. Doesn't always go well but it comes with the territory I guess. This process often involve taking turns--he gets his thing then she gets hers--or sometimes he gets his thing if he meets some pre-agreed condition since he needs his thing more strongly.

Maybe your friend needs to help her guy branch out. There are many other kinks out there so maybe they can do other stuff they both enjoy instead of just the one thing. I also know of other couples who have satisfactory sex lives except for a few small things that one of the partners have no interest in and those small things are met by outside partners every so often.

Idunno if any of this is at all helpful but your friends guy needs to quit with the ultimatums.

[Guest]

I'm going to defer to Dan Savage on this one. If you have a kink/fetish and want your partner to participate, you have to have vanilla sex at least 3 times for every 1 bout of fetish sex. OR, the person with the fetish must pay for sex.

He doesn't get aroused during vanilla sex. So what? There's other stuff that they can do, right? And maybe he'll relearn to enjoy it. If he doesn't I don't see how the relationship is going to last.

I understand why he's acting selfishly... he found something he really likes and he wants to keep doing it. He probably finds vanilla sex to be unejoyable and, due to the arousal issue, probably embarrassing and ego-bruising. He's going to have to try, though, and understand that she's compromising too.

[The Great WTF]

I call this guy a selfish jackass on a weekly basis, for what it's worth, though that's mostly because he's clingy and jealous. The sex thing is new to me (my friend is a HUGE SnM fan and it never really occurred to me that she'd want anything so plain.) Considering he seems genuinely upset (and very self-depreciating) when it comes to his lack of arousal, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

She has this desire for simple sex, though, and I'm not sure how well alternatives will work. I have the very cynical urge to buy her an extra tight cock ring for him to see if it does anything useful.

[Sally]

I have the very cynical urge to buy her an extra tight cock ring for him to see if it does anything useful.

:lol: Useful -- or at least amusing.

[Midnight-Poetry]

Is it possible that this is coming as a surprise to him as well? You said the fact she wants vanilla is shocking, so maybe there is a mix of that in there for him. if they had an SnM thing from the start and she brings up vanilla sex, mixed with the arousal problem, I could see that as a very tight situation for him.

I know everyone is looking at it this way: "He wants something kinky, and because he wants extras he should be sacrificing for it"

But they have (from what is presented) both enjoyed kinky sex and now she's asking for vanilla.

I would say this situation (at face value) sounds more like she's the one asking for "extras" because they are both satisfied with SnM.

Think about it this way: If they were having only vanilla sex and were both happy and then she wanted to hand cuff him, demanding that he do it would seem selfish. Now it sounds like the reverse is true: They are both enjoying kinky sex, and now she wants to have nonkinky sex, the assumption in their dynamic has been SnM and vanilla is now the aberrant element. I would say it would be best to try and ease him into it and not force him into any corners, which would be my advice in the first scenario I presented as well.

As someone who has been in SnM relationships I think it is important to realize that once you have 2 kinky people in a bedroom what is "normal" is very different from the normal perception.

I'm also curious about this: How long have they been together? (Or did I miss that)... because another great way to think about this situation is: You have been sleeping with someone for 4 months and all of a sudden they say "Hey, every once in a while I want to stick needles in your skin?" you might be weirded out and worried about where this change is coming from. Now if you've been together for 4 months and sticking needles in your skin every time you sleep together and all of a sudden your partner changes their mind, you might be worried about what has changed and cause more stresses.

In contrast to sleeping together the third time and being like "great, I always spot the strange people" when they break out their SnM gear.

Sorry for the ramble, I know it goes against what people here are saying, but maybe it will give a different perspective.

[maven]

Is it possible that this is coming as a surprise to him as well? You said the fact she wants vanilla is shocking, so maybe there is a mix of that in there for him. if they had an SnM thing from the start and she brings up vanilla sex, mixed with the arousal problem, I could see that as a very tight situation for him.

Seconding this. Actually, everything Poe said.

[The Great WTF]

Most likely, it is a surprise to him. They were friends with benefits off and on for about a year and a half and finally decided to escalate it a few months ago. My best guess (since she's still asleep at the moment and my memory's fuzzy) is that neither of them were up for SnM at one point early in their "relationship" so they tried a more gentle approach and it just didn't work for him but it did for her on some level. It's just deteriorated since.

[Guest]

Most likely, it is a surprise to him. They were friends with benefits off and on for about a year and a half and finally decided to escalate it a few months ago. My best guess (since she's still asleep at the moment and my memory's fuzzy) is that neither of them were up for SnM at one point early in their "relationship" so they tried a more gentle approach and it just didn't work for him but it did for her on some level. It's just deteriorated since.

Ohhh... well that just sucks then. She found out something new about herself that no longer matches him. So its neither party's fault and neither is being selfish... she just changed and he didn't change with her. I'm not sure there's much to be done?

[test account]

A post.

[Iuveth]

I don't get why so many people are talking about selfishness here. I mean, is there some sort of obligation to do everything the other partner wants? I don't think so.

As far as I understand it, it's necessary for men to be aroused during sex and he's physically incapable of it during vanilla sex - maybe some fantasies would do the trick for him? Like imagining things that aren't actually taking place in order for him to get aroused?

I'm writing this from the perspective that I'm not sexually attracted to people, I am romantically attracted to them and I think, just think that I might be willing to try sex one day if a particular fetish of mine is incorporated, because that's the one thing that can turn me on. I very strongly doubt that I would ever enjoy vanilla sex, and I would definitely be very distressed if a partner suddenly started demanding it. In fact, if it was a big issue for him, I'd be willing to break up over it rather than push myself somewhere where I don't want to be.

If he's not open to pleasing her, and just wants his own way, he's a jerk.

To me, this is the same as telling a pure ace to shut up and have sex with their partner, because hey, if you just want it your own way (=no sex, in this case), you're a jerk.

[abea]

If you are completely self oriented and not willing to do anything to make other people happy, you're probably not meant to be in a relationship. No, there is no obligation to do everything that your partner wants, and you aren't required by anybody or anything to give up any of your convictions or reservations or whatever. But being in a relationship with someone does mean bending a bit - even for something stupid and simple like he cooks, I clean (even if I don't particularly like cleaning). ;)

[Sari]

As a way to fix the problem, why not mix the two things wanted? Start it slowly by introducing love into the fetish and slowly increase it. This process takes time but it worked for me. Though I am not sure if it would be a good thing for him to be aware of it happening.

[Iuveth]

If you are completely self oriented and not willing to do anything to make other people happy, you're probably not meant to be in a relationship. No, there is no obligation to do everything that your partner wants, and you aren't required by anybody or anything to give up any of your convictions or reservations or whatever. But being in a relationship with someone does mean bending a bit - even for something stupid and simple like he cooks, I clean (even if I don't particularly like cleaning). ;)

Yes, but if you have a relationship where things were set so that both of you were happy, and suddenly the other party starts demanding something you're physically incapable of, well, I wouldn't call it selfishness if you can't perform ;)

I guess we're disagreeing on the basic premise here - I don't think that in relationships, people are required to do things that really, really don't want to do, and if they are, well, maybe they're just in the wrong relationship. Whereas most people tend to think it's about compromise, you have to do the things you don't want to do to show your love etc. etc. - well, you know what? When I love someone, I don't want him to do the things he doesn't want to do! I'm like "Oh my, he obviously doesn't want to do this, let's find a way to get things done so that it's at least neutral for everyone".

Sorry about the off-topic.

Anyhow, from my point of view, this situation is like asking a heterosexual man to have sex with a man - he just can't do it. I mean, if he's not sexually attracted to her and is just sexually attracted to the situation they create and suddenly the situation is not there, things just aren't going to work.

[Guest]

I mean, if he's not sexually attracted to her and is just sexually attracted to the situation they create and suddenly the situation is not there, things just aren't going to work.

No, they may not work. But that's not entirely the point. In a relationship both parties have to be communicative and willing to work with the other person. Stomping your foot down and refusing to both talk about it and try to work it out... if someone is acting like that, the relationship is already over.

I'm not saying that's what WTF's friend is doing in this case, but my point is that in relationships, how you go about solving a problem is sometimes more important than the actual problem.

[Lady Girl]

I mean, if he's not sexually attracted to her and is just sexually attracted to the situation they create and suddenly the situation is not there, things just aren't going to work.

No, they may not work. But that's not entirely the point. In a relationship both parties have to be communicative and willing to work with the other person. Stomping your foot down and refusing to both talk about it and try to work it out... if someone is acting like that, the relationship is already over.

I'm not saying that's what WTF's friend is doing in this case, but my point is that in relationships, how you go about solving a problem is sometimes more important than the actual problem.

Skulls your insight never ceases to amaze me!

[Iuveth]

In a relationship both parties have to be communicative and willing to work with the other person. Stomping your foot down and refusing to both talk about it and try to work it out... if someone is acting like that, the relationship is already over.

Yes, of course. I'm not saying that it's not important to try and work it out, I'm saying that it might turn out to be impossible - but of course, not being a jerk about it is necessary. I believe that communication is one of the most important things in a relationship. I also believe that not getting stuck in a relationship which doesn't work is important, too.

[abea]

If you are completely self oriented and not willing to do anything to make other people happy, you're probably not meant to be in a relationship. No, there is no obligation to do everything that your partner wants, and you aren't required by anybody or anything to give up any of your convictions or reservations or whatever. But being in a relationship with someone does mean bending a bit - even for something stupid and simple like he cooks, I clean (even if I don't particularly like cleaning). ;)

Yes, but if you have a relationship where things were set so that both of you were happy, and suddenly the other party starts demanding something you're physically incapable of, well, I wouldn't call it selfishness if you can't perform ;)

I guess we're disagreeing on the basic premise here - I don't think that in relationships, people are required to do things that really, really don't want to do, and if they are, well, maybe they're just in the wrong relationship. Whereas most people tend to think it's about compromise, you have to do the things you don't want to do to show your love etc. etc. - well, you know what? When I love someone, I don't want him to do the things he doesn't want to do! I'm like "Oh my, he obviously doesn't want to do this, let's find a way to get things done so that it's at least neutral for everyone".

Actually, I think we are in agreement, I think I just misread your initial statement! :) I believe in compromising where you can, where it does become at least neutral. But no, I don't think you should ever compromise if it makes one party miserable - that's not a compromise! :)

[Iuveth]

Actually, I think we are in agreement, I think I just misread your initial statement! :) I believe in compromising where you can, where it does become at least neutral. But no, I don't think you should ever compromise if it makes one party miserable - that's not a compromise! :)

Oh, great! Thanks for letting me know. Yes, my initial statement was not very clear - I was a little worked up by what I percieved as inability to do something (from the initial post) and a lot of people calling it selfishness and made a very general initial statement :)

[Bensin]

I don't get why so many people are talking about selfishness here. I mean, is there some sort of obligation to do everything the other partner wants? I don't think so.

As far as I understand it, it's necessary for men to be aroused during sex and he's physically incapable of it during vanilla sex - maybe some fantasies would do the trick for him? Like imagining things that aren't actually taking place in order for him to get aroused?

I'm writing this from the perspective that I'm not sexually attracted to people, I am romantically attracted to them and I think, just think that I might be willing to try sex one day if a particular fetish of mine is incorporated, because that's the one thing that can turn me on. I very strongly doubt that I would ever enjoy vanilla sex, and I would definitely be very distressed if a partner suddenly started demanding it. In fact, if it was a big issue for him, I'd be willing to break up over it rather than push myself somewhere where I don't want to be.

If he's not open to pleasing her, and just wants his own way, he's a jerk.

To me, this is the same as telling a pure ace to shut up and have sex with their partner, because hey, if you just want it your own way (=no sex, in this case), you're a jerk.

Those were my exact thoughts. Well put.

[trany101]

I have been in this situation before. The person who says they can't have vanilla sex needs to respect the boundries of the person who can and vice versa. Boundries are a large part of the BDSM community and it seems that there are some being crossed, but not addressed here. The only happy solution I see is finding a happy medium, there is a way to be kinky in a loving way that can be very similar to vanilla love making. Then there is the option of opening up the relationship to allow for vanilla sex. There is also the option of breaking it off if sex is a deciding factor.