Does it realy matter if god exists?

[Angelica Soprano]

Another grand one is that people have to decide what they are. I hear many who call themselves athiests saying they need further proof before they'll believe in God. That is agnostic. Athiests deny the existence of deity (sp? Neither looks right). They don't worship satan (those are Satanists) because they deny the existence of deity. Pagans don't worship Satan etc etc. So, I don't have a problem with people calling themselves what they wish but they really should know.

I'm not too accepting on any categorisation, (as what people say and what they actually believe is just subjective)

If any, I'd use 'Rationalist.'

[Nonz16]

well i'm christian... so naturally it means everything to me if god exists or not...

[Roger Mellie]

No it doesn;t matter in my opinion

we cannot prove the existence (or non existence) of god so this shouldn't affect how we live our lives

all we can be is the best we could possibly be

I agree with that.

If God did exist, then I don't believe he exists within time and space-- so logically he doesn't exist. However equally we can't assume outside of time and space doesn't exist either!

[Trogdor]

I personally have to believe that god would have to be in everything that creates. I would say that either creation is god or is caused by god. But I can't see god as an outside kind of thing, because that to me is not god. I kind of agree with god being Nature, I suppose. But I think it's more than that. So I mean on a biological level, every biological thing creates in some way, generally by reproduction, also by mutation ... everything that is creating a new thing is kind of in a cycle of god. The only way to justify this that I can think of is to say that god IS creation. But I would have to go further to say that it is the omnipotent everything. God is basically in the smallest particles that are working to create and change on a constant basis. It's not really something you can track down or trace.

In this way, I don't' think it matters if god exists, or if we think or say god exists. It matters that things are created, or else nothing would exist. But whether or not we say "god" is irrelevant. Perhaps "god" is merely the idea of creation ... it is our solidified explanation of what the universe is. And we represent it with symbols or idols. And not all of us need an idol in order to worship creation, we can simply partake in the grand creation ourselves. But then, some of us do prefer an idol.

I agree with you very much. For my personal beliefs, I identify God as all of Existence. And I think that Existence is so Awesome as to be worthy of worship.

That may not be the traditional view of God, but forunately tradition is never monolithic. So I think I'll just have my own little inside joke with the author of Exodus 3:14-

when Moses asked God It's name, God replied "I AM that I AM"

The verb to be! Existence=God! Take that theists! :D

[Atheno]

Well, religious people would probably think it mattered more than non-religious people.

Hm, someone mentioned atheists deny the existence of god by definition. Er, I don't think that's necessarily right but, you know, there are different definitions so that... it's sort of silly?

I believe the original definition of agnosticism is believing that it is impossible to know whether god exists. However, an agnostic can say that certain gods do not exist. So one might absolutely disbelieve in gods of various organized religions but think a creator god possible.

An atheist by one definition simply does not believe in god. So yeah, the two can actually overlap.

But I think most people may think an agnostic is someone who is just unsure-- which isn't the original definition but may be one today. (I can't be bothered to look it up.)

And an atheist may be one who disbelieves in god.

To the issue of nature, I'm not exactly sure how it was intended, but I would say that-- taking morals straight from nature is a potential problem. For a bad example (since it's kind of obvious), if one were to say, well, animals don't worry about STDs, neither should I...

Personally, I think religion can be a good or bad thing. Sort of like not having religion can be good or bad. I was raised Christian. There are a few elements of the religion I don't such as it being against homosexuality, but on the other hand, it's debatable whether or not Christianity is against homosexuality. In none of the gospels does Jesus say anything against it. Another annoying thing is the idea that those who don't believe don't exactly have the nicest future. But a lot of Christians don't believe that either, and though it may seem pretty clear from the Bible, again it's debatable. After all, many Christians are willing to acknowledge the Bible is not infallible.

A Christian who follows general Christian morality is, I think, a good person.

Atheism isn't a religion; though from atheism one can sort of choose his own morality, which is something a lot of religious people do as well. Atheism doesn't tell a person to be good, and some atheists aren't particularly good at all. Others are very good.

[KetchupKid]

According to my Oxford dictionary:

Atheism: "the theory or belief that god does not exist"

Agnostic: "a person who believes that nothing is known, or can be known, of the existence or nature of god or of anything beyond material phenomena"

If these are the general definitions, then it appears that an atheist should at the very least think that god probably doesn't exist, and that an agnostic, as Atheno pointed out, is not merely someone who can't decide whether to believe. An agnostic, like an atheist, knows they do not believe in God. An agnostic, however, additionally knows they do not believe in God's non-existence either. You could say they are decided in their indecision, if that makes any sense.

If God didn't exist, nothing would exist... check that, not even 'nothing' would exist. So, yes, it matters.

So who created God? If we need to explain why matter and force exist then why do we not need to explain why God exists, and why God is the way God is (if God exists, of which I have no opinion)?

Besides, He's my Hero and He's looking for heros too. Sadly, there are waaayyy too many enemies and anti-heroes. And why? God didn't do anything wrong and did everything right.

"Don't blame God for the cruelty that humanity does to itself. Even God's upset by that."

I would suggest that if God is upset it is because he/she/it buggered things up ever so slightly, and would know (if they existed) that they were at least partly to blame, as the ultimate designer of the faulty product that is humankind. If I created a human-like robot and invested it with something that would be construed as 'free-will' in a human, and it unexpectedly turned into a psychopathic murderer, I'd be more than a tad embarrassed.

[VicariousScot]

I am a VERY scientific person, I love science and will never turn my back on it but we know so little we really can't say whether or not he exists. I personally believe in him through my own experiences and that he created existence but everything that we see today is the result in chance and what came to be.

It's like Evolution. Micro-evolution is proven. It's a fact, it's a proof...but macro-evolution? It's just TOO complex for humanity to understand and I think it's ignorant of humanity to believe we can solve the puzzle. Every tragedy and ailment that plagues our societies are man-made and therefore we must pay for them in this life. That's why we have so many diseases and problems because man has created them. Treat your body like a temple, but now many people really do listen to that? Pretty much no one.

I will not sit and shun any scientific discovery as blasphemous. Hell, that'd be ridiculous of me as I'm a scientist myself but all these are are further understandings of the existence that we have. God didn't create man, God created this.

So, how does that affect me? Well it gives me comfort when things are going badly that there is something to fall back on, that I'm not helpless and allows me to be thankful for existing at all.

As ever, this is my opinion.

[Roger Mellie]

I believe the original definition of agnosticism is believing that it is impossible to know whether god exists. However, an agnostic can say that certain gods do not exist. So one might absolutely disbelieve in gods of various organized religions but think a creator god possible.

Yeah there are various shades of agnosticism, some closer to the original sense than others.

For instance some people are theist-agnostics. They have religious leanings, but are unsure of a "higher order". Others are atheist-agnostics; they don't have a religion, but don't fully rule out the concept of a high-order of some kind.

If you run "agnosticism" through Wiki, there's a good page on it.

[LonePiper]

I believe the original definition of agnosticism is believing that it is impossible to know whether god exists. However, an agnostic can say that certain gods do not exist. So one might absolutely disbelieve in gods of various organized religions but think a creator god possible.

Yeah they're are various shades of agnosticism, some closer to the original sense than others.

For instance some people are theist-agnostics. They have religious leanings, but are unsure of a "higher order". Others are atheist-agnostics; they don't have a religion, but don't fully rule out the concept of a high-order of some kind.

If you run "agnosticism" through Wiki, there's a good page on it.

Strictly speaking I'd be classified as an agnostic - there may be a higher power, but I don't believe there is. However I tend to identify as atheist anyway, simply because I lean much further in that direction and it saves on confusion. Most people, at least where I'm from, tend to consider agnostics the kind of people that generally don't give religious matters much thought and don't have a clear opinion as to whether god exists or not. I'm very sure about what my beliefs are. And really, even if there is a God, I cannot believe that it is anything like the judeo-christian god. And really, the word "God" would be an entirely meaningless label for such a power anyway in my opinion.

[Trogdor]

I am a VERY scientific person, I love science and will never turn my back on it but we know so little we really can't say whether or not he exists. I personally believe in him through my own experiences and that he created existence but everything that we see today is the result in chance and what came to be.

It's like Evolution. Micro-evolution is proven. It's a fact, it's a proof...but macro-evolution? It's just TOO complex for humanity to understand and I think it's ignorant of humanity to believe we can solve the puzzle.

Macro evolution is proven as well. All forms of evolution are about as well-proven as any piece of knowledge can be. But that doesn't make the statement "It's just TOO complex for humanity to understand" wrong- in fact it makes it right. The full picture of evolutionary history- on the micro AND macro scales- is a grand tapestry far too big for one individual human to possibly comprehend the whole. This is why science pools our resources so that many different people can build off each other's work, thus splitting up the grand scheme into manageable pieces.

But I think something that doesn't get nearly enough attention in scientific circles (or any attention at all in religious circles) is this: just how awesome the whole process is! Like every single other part of existence evolution is not just an orderly pattern; it is a fractal pattern! Infinite detail on every scale! So I guess my answer, after three other posts on this thread which didn't squarely address the question, is that it does not matter whether God exists. Because as our certainty in traditions we once thought are infallible crumbles, we are left with one thing we can be certain in: the world we see with our own two eyes. And what do we find when we look at it? That the Universe, not just in its present state but the entire multifaceted interconnected history that we call Existence, is Awesome. Awesome!

As a species, we have found the mirror. Not just are we aware- every species with a nervous system has some level of awareness- we are also aware that we are aware. Isn't it incredable that a human can look up at the night sky and call it beautiful? Isn't it amazing that in a system built entirely on the desire to procreate (evolution) a part of that system would one day develop which would actually be aware of the system itself? This can be generalized-> as Carl Sagan said, through us the Universe achieves self-awareness. Because we exist, the Universe is a sentient being.

Someone has said that atheists worship Nature. This is patently false, as anyone who bothers to look around will see. Where are the atheist churches? Where are the temples dedicated to our super-intelligent creator, kind Evolution? Where are the shrines to Life itself? Where are the hymns sung in praise of Mother Universe? Where are the esoteric texts describing the proper method of communing with the Godhead, ultimate Existence? They are not built, they are not sung and they are not written. And the more's the shame, becuase the world we live in deserves to be worshipped.

But I don't mind. I accept conventional anthropomorphic conceptions of God as what they are: aids to comprehension. It is enough that people worship, even if they know not what they bow to, because there is something out there which deserves worship- Everything!

[Angelica Soprano]

If all the billions of slaughtered crusading soldiers are up in heaven, then I'm off to hell with my friends and f**k all that chopping ballocks off and stuffing them in y'mouth, in the name of your superior god/s!

Anyone that believes in some controlling entity, after studying Homo-chimpy's history, really needs to take an inside re-evaluation of their psychological motivations, and work it out! - Like a constipated mathematician - with a pencil!

If your god/s were existing, then they too need a serious work out with the 'Shrink-God' and get their pathetic brains examined!

It's just irrelevent! All of it. Reminds me of an ants nest, and the ants calling the armadillo, - 'God.'

[Trogdor]

If all the billions of slaughtered crusading soldiers are up in heaven, then I'm off to hell with my friends and f**k all that chopping ballocks off and stuffing them in y'mouth, in the name of your superior god/s!

Anyone that believes in some controlling entity, after studying Homo-chimpy's history, really needs to take an inside re-evaluation of their psychological motivations, and work it out! - Like a constipated mathematician - with a pencil!

If your god/s were existing, then they too need a serious work out with the 'Shrink-God' and get their pathetic brains examined!

It's just irrelevent! All of it. Reminds me of an ants nest, and the ants calling the armadillo, - 'God.'

That's my point! Relative to the ants, the armadillo is a god! What can they do against his arbitrary and capricious power to eat them?

And the only sense in which I believe God to be a "controlling entity" is in the sense that the laws of physics control everything that ever happens in the universe- which they do! I have a very funny and irregular definition of God-namely, all of Existence- which makes it a contradiction in terms for God to not exist. By my definition God does exist- by definition.

But as for the traditional definition of God? As for a single omniscient and omnipotent being who created a universe seperate from himself from an act of semi-human (honestly, theologians are fucking ignorant of what a "higher intelligence" would actually look like) will? In other words, as for the God worshipped by 99.9% of religious people?

Of course that God does not exist.