Living with an asexual

[Olallieberry]

4 hours ago, BeakLove said:

Unfortunately, it seems she has also now expressed that she feels the marriage itself would be threatened with additional sexual partners added to the pot.

It's threatened without that.

 

4 hours ago, BeakLove said:

the situation is one she's comfortable with and you're resentful over

It's not resentment. She has her needs and I have mine. They're not compatible. It's nobody's fault. This isn't something she's "doing to me."

 

 

[BeakLove]

1 hour ago, Ollie415 said:

It's threatened without that.

  It is. It's already in ultimatum territory. The exact form of words hasn't been used, but you've been pretty explicit that the relationship has an expiry date unless she changes her mind on tolerating extramarital sex. What do you see as the next steps?

 

4 hours ago, jcputh89 said:

So very true and just what I think

Sorry to hear about your situation. It's hard to feel loved in the complete absence of any real intimacy. Where do you see things heading?

[Olallieberry]

41 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

It's already in ultimatum territory.

That's not how we're doing this. Everything is already out in the open and on the table. There is no ultimatum because I'm not demanding anything.

 

42 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

What do you see as the next steps?

I feel like I could use a time-out on all of this, it has been draining.

 

She could press it and ask "how long" I think it'll be before I want to leave. I'll say, "not now" until I have some better idea. I'm still not sure whether the answer won't be "never." I can't tell her one way or the other.

 

44 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

Where do you see things heading?

We'll either split up or we won't. She could change her mind, though I'm not remotely expecting that. Something else could press the matter - another major financial decision (we made several of those recently), the health of our family's elders, my drive to pursue someone else, who knows.

 

I'm fine with uncertainty and waiting to see. It's harder for her, so, she could force a choice. It probably wouldn't go the way she would want, if it came to that, because I'd probably keep saying "not now" rather than making a once-and-for-all decision.

 

So maybe she'll make it, if the uncertainty is too troublesome for her.

[jcputh89]

47 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

  It is. It's already in ultimatum territory. The exact form of words hasn't been used, but you've been pretty explicit that the relationship has an expiry date unless she changes her mind on tolerating extramarital sex. What do you see as the next steps?

 

Sorry to hear about your situation. It's hard to feel loved in the complete absence of any real intimacy. Where do you see things heading?

I ll work it out somehow. I really l love her. I wouldn't consider compromising my marriage for sex. We lack communication on this topic. Once we start talking about it thinks should change

[Olallieberry]

4 minutes ago, jcputh89 said:

I wouldn't consider compromising my marriage for sex.

I feel like I shouldn't, but.

 

4 minutes ago, jcputh89 said:

We lack communication on this topic. Once we start talking about it thinks should change

I hope so. Do you already communicate well on other topics? Even difficult, touchy ones? Are either of you easily triggered into defensiveness or unconstructive anger?

 

And what is it that you think might change? Just, more and better sexless intimacy? That's a possibility.

 

More and better sex? Does that seem realistic?

 

You started the topic with "how do you get over it." You don't see it as her job to help you with that, do you?

[jcputh89]

3 hours ago, Ollie415 said:

I feel like I shouldn't, but.

 

I hope so. Do you already communicate well on other topics? Even difficult, touchy ones? Are either of you easily triggered into defensiveness or unconstructive anger?

 

And what is it that you think might change? Just, more and better sexless intimacy? That's a possibility.

 

More and better sex? Does that seem realistic?

 

You started the topic with "how do you get over it." You don't see it as her job to help you with that, do you?

We communicate quiet well but I feel we can do more. We both find it difficult to communicate with each other our differences. And yes we go into defensiveness and anger if we delve too deep into the topic. 

No I don't see this as her job to help me get over it. I think it's my fault that I cannot accept my sexual identity 

[jcputh89]

Just now, jcputh89 said:

We communicate quiet well but I feel we can do more. We both find it difficult to communicate with each other our differences. And yes we go into defensiveness and anger if we delve too deep into the topic. 

No I don't see this as her job to help me get over it. I think it's my fault that I cannot accept my sexual identity 

Sorry.....I think it's my fault that I cannot accept her sexual identity 

[Windmills of My Mind]

It may help to let go of the concept of fault here. Anybodies fault. As long as you don't start to resent each other, don't say hateful things, intentionally hurt your partner, then there is no such thing as fault. Not with you either. You are not wrong, at fault or broken for desiring something. Your partner isn't either, for not desiring the same thing.

 

As for defensiveness and anger, that is an understandable and very common thing to happen, even for things that are way less charged with emotion and shame or taboo than sexuality. But it is standing in the way of the two of you finding a deeper understanding and acceptance of the other partner. It may be helpful to read up on the concept of "nonviolent communication". I didn't know about it previously and it helped me a great deal. It may not save your relationship, but it may help prevent things to blow up in your face. Or to end up in a life long dreadful silence on the touchy subject of physical intimacy and sex.

[Sally]

Try to think of it this way:  it isn't a matter of one partner wants, the other partner doesn't want.  

 

Instead, look at it this way:  one partner wants a relationship with sex, the other partner wants a sexless life.  There's no fault on the part of either of you.  Now you each have to decide whether that works or not.  

[BeakLove]

5 hours ago, jcputh89 said:

I ll work it out somehow. I really l love her. I wouldn't consider compromising my marriage for sex. We lack communication on this topic. Once we start talking about it thinks should change

Be careful. Manipulation is easily confused for "communication".

 

I re-read the thread.

 

It's clear the marriage is already being compromised by sex. You mentioned your wife cries to herself in the bathroom after every sexual encounter, yet you persist in encouraging these encounters to happen because you can't "control your hormones". That needs to come to an end before anything else, I would think. Sadly, the relationship seems to be lacking much in the way of physical or emotional intimacy generally, and the unpleasant sexual encounters which have left her tears have probably contributed to eroding that. Which, in turn, probably makes you even more desperate for the sex in the absence of everything else. A vicious corrosive cycle.

 

I note that some advice was tendered which suggested taking sex off the table for a "period of time" so as to create comfort for other intimacy. But it strikes me that unless that "period of time" is synonymous with "if and if so, when the other person is comfortable with sex", it is unlikely to solve the issue; given that the answer to that question is likely to range from "a long time" to "never". Even if she does arrive at genuine comfort it's probably not going to be to the extent you want, so it really becomes a question of whether you can find genuine satisfaction and love from other forms of intimacy, provided you could build them with the sexual pressure taken away. Do you feel you could genuinely enjoy a form of this relationship that was sexless, without reservation? Where sex would be a desirable addition but not necessary and not something you will suggest nor push for?

 

Or would any development of intimacy or suspension of sexual expectation merely be a staging post on the way to getting sex reintroduced as a live topic? I think, bluntly, if you can't find a way to be happy without sex in the relationship it's not going to work.

 

2 hours ago, jcputh89 said:

Sorry.....I think it's my fault that I cannot accept her sexual identity 

You can start accepting her identity by stopping the unwanted sex. Sex - good, bad or ugly - should never leave a party in tears.

 

 

 

[Traveler40]

24 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

Sex - good, bad or ugly - should never leave a party in tears.

Not true in life according to me. 😄

 

I have been known to cry after sex. The release can be emotionally charged - especially for those with mixed relationship baggage in their history.  
 

That’s been my experience anyhow. 
 

Hmm,

tender sex crying ✔️

rough sex crying ✔️

major O sex crying ✔️

first time in a while sex crying ✔️

exhausted sex crying ✔️

 

 

OMG, my poor lover! 😂  thanks a lot @BeakLove.  I’m headed over to spend the night at his place shortly. I’ll try not to cry…😬😂

[Olallieberry]

59 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

 

I note that some advice was tendered which suggested taking sex off the table for a "period of time" so as to create comfort for other intimacy. But it strikes me that unless that "period of time" is synonymous with "if and if so, when the other person is comfortable with sex", it is unlikely to solve the issue; given that the answer to that question is likely to range from "a long time" to "never".

It's not about "solving the issue," that isn't the expectation.

 

It's not a temporary suspension of entitlement.

 

It's not a temporary concession to the asexual.

 

It's not a promise to start having sex when the period is over. It's more like "let's try this, and we can abandon it after trying it" - at which point, the prevailing state of things in the relationship probably returns. If the prevailing state of the relationship is already sexless, there is no presumption that trying this out and then deciding to abandon it means anything will be any different after trying it. 

It's a tool for temporarily lowering the stakes for both parties in order to assist communication and connection, which is often very sorely needed in couples with mismatching sexualities.

 

It does rather assume that the relationship is not toxic - and success depends on that.

 

It barely even has anything to do with sex, other than the fact that sex is the area of conflict and difficulty communicating. It's about creating an opportunity to connect without the specter of sex spoiling it. It's an agreement to drop the conflict to make room for something which gets lost as a casualty of the conflict.

 

If the period of time goes by and people want their conflict back, my hat's off to them. What seems to be more likely is that they'll rediscover a capacity for something they once had, and have been missing, and would just as soon preserve after seeing how the try-out was able to restore it.

 

The reason it's a try-out agreement for "a period of time" rather than "this is how we're going to agree right now to change our relationship forever" is partly because that's unrealistic, partly because those are much higher stakes than necessary, partly because people need to be free to "try it and see". On the other hand, after trying it for say a month, it works so well that maybe a couple will organically find themselves hanging on to it and agreeing to give and to watch for explicit signals regarding sexual wishes and willingness, rather than returning to allowing imagined sexual charge drive them apart. It's what happened to me.

[Ceebs]

I am very confused by how someone has any sex, ever, with someone they know to regularly cry after sex because it's sex they don't truly want (even if they've consented to it). If you don't know the other person is crying after, that's one thing. Or if it's a one-off situation where something unexpectedly came up for someone during sex and their mental space turned negative (and hopefully you'd talk about what happened). But repeatedly? Yeah, I'm confused.

 

I'm sexual. I've cried after sex from intense emotion, in a very positive and cathartic sort of way. A release. In the long-ago past, I've also cried after sex that was 100% consensual but made me feel shitty because I was not comfortable with my own sexuality at the time and with what I'd just willingly engaged in. And I most certainly have a lot of empathy for sexuals in mixed relationships, having been in one myself, being in a current relationship with someone who was also in one, and having been on AVEN for many years and read lots of people's stories.

 

But I'm sorry, I've no idea how someone continues to request sex from someone who cries because they'd really rather not be having it.

[jcputh89]

1 hour ago, Ceebs said:

I am very confused by how someone has any sex, ever, with someone they know to regularly cry after sex because it's sex they don't truly want (even if they've consented to it). If you don't know the other person is crying after, that's one thing. Or if it's a one-off situation where something unexpectedly came up for someone during sex and their mental space turned negative (and hopefully you'd talk about what happened). But repeatedly? Yeah, I'm confused.

 

I'm sexual. I've cried after sex from intense emotion, in a very positive and cathartic sort of way. A release. In the long-ago past, I've also cried after sex that was 100% consensual but made me feel shitty because I was not comfortable with my own sexuality at the time and with what I'd just willingly engaged in. And I most certainly have a lot of empathy for sexuals in mixed relationships, having been in one myself, being in a current relationship with someone who was also in one, and having been on AVEN for many years and read lots of people's stories.

 

But I'm sorry, I've no idea how someone continues to request sex from someone who cries because they'd really rather not be having it.

I really didn't know that she was crying. Also there are times when she initiated it. So I never knew that she dint like it. And it was never sex. In our 9 yrs of marriage we have had sex only twice. It's just with foreplay. But I never knew she was crying 

[Traveler40]

7 hours ago, Ceebs said:

I am very confused by how someone has any sex, ever, with someone they know to regularly cry after sex because it's sex they don't truly want (even if they've consented to it). If you don't know the other person is crying after, that's one thing. Or if it's a one-off situation where something unexpectedly came up for someone during sex and their mental space turned negative (and hopefully you'd talk about what happened). But repeatedly? Yeah, I'm confused.

 

I'm sexual. I've cried after sex from intense emotion, in a very positive and cathartic sort of way. A release. In the long-ago past, I've also cried after sex that was 100% consensual but made me feel shitty because I was not comfortable with my own sexuality at the time and with what I'd just willingly engaged in. And I most certainly have a lot of empathy for sexuals in mixed relationships, having been in one myself, being in a current relationship with someone who was also in one, and having been on AVEN for many years and read lots of people's stories.

 

But I'm sorry, I've no idea how someone continues to request sex from someone who cries because they'd really rather not be having it.

Uh, yeah. That’s what I meant to add…haha

 

Off topic update: NO CRYING 🙌🏼🤣

[Ceebs]

10 hours ago, jcputh89 said:

I really didn't know that she was crying. Also there are times when she initiated it. So I never knew that she dint like it. And it was never sex. In our 9 yrs of marriage we have had sex only twice. It's just with foreplay. But I never knew she was crying 

Ok, well you made it sound like it's a regular occurrence and that you continue to have sexual interactions when your hormones get the better of you (doesn't really matter if it's PiV or foreplay btw, it's all sex) despite being aware she cries after. 

I would really think about whether nine years of marriage should perhaps be where you draw the line. This mismatch is awful for both of you. Is there a way you see the sex issue improving, since neither of you can stop being who you are?

[BeakLove]

6 minutes ago, Ceebs said:

I would really think about whether nine years of marriage should perhaps be where you draw the line. This mismatch is awful for both of you.

Unfortunately, I am minded to agree with this. It's tearing you to pieces and she doesn't seem happy either. 

  

17 hours ago, Ollie415 said:

It's not about "solving the issue," that isn't the expectation.

 

[...]

 

The reason it's a try-out agreement for "a period of time" rather than "this is how we're going to agree right now to change our relationship forever" is partly because that's unrealistic, partly because those are much higher stakes than necessary, partly because people need to be free to "try it and see". On the other hand, after trying it for say a month, it works so well that maybe a couple will organically find themselves hanging on to it and agreeing to give and to watch for explicit signals regarding sexual wishes and willingness, rather than returning to allowing imagined sexual charge drive them apart. It's what happened to me.

I can see how freeing other forms of intimacy from the pollution of sexual expectation could help create a healthier atmosphere in the relationship. But how is the issue of sex then put back on the table following the trial without upsetting the newfound comfort in the relationship?

[Olallieberry]

8 hours ago, BeakLove said:

how is the issue of sex then put back on the table following the trial without upsetting the newfound comfort in the relationship?

Maybe it's not. Especially if sex was already not on the table before this try-out. The try-out makes explicit those intentions which were previously either misunderstood or otherwise unclear, and it doesn't change the "status quo" of the conflict.

 

That's a separate conversation, and that's the answer to your question.

 

What we can recognize is that we're talking about a couple who already are having a hard time talking about their real conflict, which isn't about "should we or shouldn't we cuddle." They're having a hard time talking about their sex life in general because they're having a hard time feeling the connection and trust which supposedly is the foundation of their relationship in the first place, with or without sex. So using this tool does two things: It re-establishes the ability to connect with affection and physicality without the fraught stakes of "oh shit this is going to blow up because they're sexual and they're not," and it also is extremely good practice at saying out loud things which go unspoken and create unnecessary friction and division.

 

Having time, space and connection improves the ability to talk about the real issue, and talking about it is where your question gets answered. I hope you can see how that's a separate conversation from the one about creating time, space and security so that connection can be established.

 

People tend to make better decisions together when they're both free from imagined conflicts and unspoken fears, and have established connection and security together. That's why this can be a useful tool for creating a step toward better communication about the real difficulties.

[jcputh89]

8 hours ago, Ceebs said:

Ok, well you made it sound like it's a regular occurrence and that you continue to have sexual interactions when your hormones get the better of you (doesn't really matter if it's PiV or foreplay btw, it's all sex) despite being aware she cries after. 

I would really think about whether nine years of marriage should perhaps be where you draw the line. This mismatch is awful for both of you. Is there a way you see the sex issue improving, since neither of you can stop being who you are?

Actually after getting to know  about this new concept, Iam actually getting to understand her a little more. Even though I get hurt when I think about it, I try not to let it effect our daily life

[Ceebs]

Well, that's good and important, yeah. I urge you to begin giving some thought to what comes after the understanding bit, though. Understanding asexuality and accepting that she's likely asexual doesn't make your need for a fulfilling sexual component within a romantic relationship disappear, of course. It takes the blame off both parties, but it doesn't resolve the incompatibility.