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Sensuality vs. Sexuality

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Star Lion

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

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Serran
41 minutes ago, Star Lion said:

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

Depends.... for one, how are we defining sex? For two, what do they do with said arousal? For three, what sparked the arousal (stimulation like snuggling rubs against a penis and thus causes erection or ...? ) ? :P

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Star Lion
1 hour ago, Serran said:

how are we defining sex?

Anal, oral, or vaginal intercourse. Typical stuff

 

1 hour ago, Serran said:

what do they do with said arousal?

This scenario is where they get aroused and become more in tune with their sensual acts from the dopamine they’re getting from it

 

1 hour ago, Serran said:

what sparked the arousal

I imagine, for example, a guy is rubbing his hands on a person’s skin and is getting turned on from it making him desire to continue doing this action

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Ringmaster04
2 hours ago, Star Lion said:

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

This describes me perfectly and I consider it sensual attraction. The specific reason I consider it sensual and not sexual is that the resulting desire is not for sex, it is for continued sensual contact. And for me specifically, contact with a sexual organ or even the sight is an instant turn off (sex repulsed).

 

When allosexuals are aroused, particularly in a setting where they can act on any desire (i.e. a consensual partner in the room), I imagine the next action is to initiate sex. When I am aroused and in a similar situation, my next action is to initiate kissing, cuddling, rubbing in a nonsexual area. At no point does my mind move toward a sexual act and if my would-be partner does go in that direction, my initial impulse would be to slam the brakes.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

Sensual: intimate activities that actually don't involve any form of partnered sexual stimulation, but are still *almost* sexual (ie naked kissing)

 

Sexual: any activity involving shared genital stimulation for sexual pleasure and/or orgasm (of at least one partner).

 

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R_1

@Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) I can't say I agree with the sensual definition entirely. Naked kissing seem sexual to me. To me, underwear kissing or anything that's close to there is sensual to me.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
8 hours ago, R_1 said:

@Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) I can't say I agree with the sensual definition entirely. Naked kissing seem sexual to me. To me, underwear kissing or anything that's close to there is sensual to me.

I'm just drawing the (very real) line between sexuality and sensual asexuality.

 

If two sexual people are naked and kiss (but that's all) they're not going to say they had sex. They're just not. They might call it second base or whatever, but if genitals aren't involved at all.. well... not a whole lot happened.

 

There are a LOT of aces on these formus who do enjoy kissing, who do enjoy being naked, and enjoy doing stuff like bathing together, naked snuggles etc. These aces can almost NEVER have a satisfying relationship with a sexual person, because (in the actual words of sexual people who have commented about this on AVEN) it's literally torture being in a relationship with an ace who is sensual: who enjoys being naked, and touching, and kissing etc..but doesn't want sex and gets turned off when anything turns sexual. The sexual person ends up miserable and the ace ends up having to give up on everything they enjoy as well so their partner isn't horny all the time. The ace will actively stop trying to hug their partner and kiss them etc in an effort to avoid the arguments about sex.

 

It's literally a nightmare because of the one fundamental difference: for a sensual ace, none of that stuff is sexual and sex (any kind of sex) ruins the fun. Whereas for a sexual, having that stuff but it *never* leading to sex is like torture. It's like a constant rejection.

 

One sexual guy here explained it like "you're starving and a feast is laid out in front of you, but you're only allowed to smell it and look at it and touch it, you can't actually eat it".. it amounts to torture for the sexual. Whereas for the sensual ace, sensual intimacy is the height of pleasure and sex (any kind) ruins it. It kills the mood instantly.

 

So yeah. That's the fundamental difference between sensual asexuality, and sexuality.

 

(Also please note: being naked isn't inherently sexual. Mothers often bathe with their babies as one example. Something is only *sexual* once actual intentional sexual arousal/sexual pleasure become involved, regardless of what form that takes).

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Guest
9 hours ago, Star Lion said:

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

If they don't have any desire or inclination to have sex because of it, then it's sensual, not sexual.

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Serran
10 hours ago, Star Lion said:

Anal, oral, or vaginal intercourse. Typical stuff

That is restrictive. By the definition, my wife and I never have sex, despite giving each other orgasms a lot. 😛

 

10 hours ago, Star Lion said:

 

This scenario is where they get aroused and become more in tune with their sensual acts from the dopamine they’re getting from it

Not sexual at that point

 

10 hours ago, Star Lion said:

 

I imagine, for example, a guy is rubbing his hands on a person’s skin and is getting turned on from it making him desire to continue doing this action

Does he desire to do anything with said arousal? Or just get aroused touching?

 

If the act of touching anyone in said scenario would arouse, I would say it is just stimuli arousing and not attraction, similar to cat jumping on a penis can cause arousal. If he only gets aroused because that person is just so awesome, probably a form of sexual attraction but if he desires nothing further, lacks sexual desire to go with it. If he desires anything from it, then sexual attraction and desire together. 

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Chihiro
12 hours ago, Star Lion said:

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

Sexual attraction IMO. I am imagining someone doing foreplay leading to arousal with no sex (no genital simulation).

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daveb
8 hours ago, Serran said:

similar to cat jumping on a penis can cause arousal

:lol: I'd be more worried than aroused (cats have claws) :P (can't think of any circumstance where that would happen in my case anyway, even when I have cats)

 

But yeah, sensual =/= sexual, nor does arousal in and of itself.

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Iam9man
On 10/19/2019 at 10:29 PM, Star Lion said:

If a person is mentally (and perhaps physically) aroused by being sensual with someone or thinking about being sensual with someone but they still have no desire to participate in actual sex, do you recognize that as sensual or sexual attraction?

Until I found AVEN I thought I was a slightly broken heterosexual as I could get aroused from romantic, aesthetic and sensual attraction but it never lead to the desire to have partnered sex.

 

The way I see it, it’s other forms of attraction if it doesn’t lead to the desire to have partnered sex.

 

Sensual is by far the most confusing one, I’ll admit. I essentially love partnered foreplay but lose interest once we take our underwear off.

 

So in your example above, I recognise this as sensual attraction.

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Iam9man
On 10/20/2019 at 4:04 AM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

There are a LOT of aces on these formus who do enjoy kissing, who do enjoy being naked, and enjoy doing stuff like bathing together, naked snuggles etc. These aces can almost NEVER have a satisfying relationship with a sexual person, because (in the actual words of sexual people who have commented about this on AVEN) it's literally torture being in a relationship with an ace who is sensual: who enjoys being naked, and touching, and kissing etc..but doesn't want sex and gets turned off when anything turns sexual. The sexual person ends up miserable and the ace ends up having to give up on everything they enjoy as well so their partner isn't horny all the time. The ace will actively stop trying to hug their partner and kiss them etc in an effort to avoid the arguments about sex.

This!

 

(One solution is compromise, but only if both partners agree, and it’s still challenging)

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Philip027

Still sexual attraction.  It involves some degree of excitation of the naughty bits, it is directed at a particular person, and it isn't purely physical stimulation with no mental component (so as to rule out scenarios of achieving arousal by sitting on some vibrating washing machine or whatever).  How much clearer does it need to be, guys?

 

Just because you might not actually want to do anything with it doesn't stop it from being what it is.  Attraction (of any variety) does not necessarily carry with it a need to do something about it.  Countless people can attest to feeling romantic attraction toward someone that they KNOW is ultimately unsuitable for them for whatever reason (maybe they're just not in the right frame of mind, maybe they're scared of romance, maybe they outright don't like romance, maybe the other person is kind of an asshole...), and therefore tend not to pursue it.  It isn't any different with sexual attraction.

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Chihiro

^^That

To elaborate on the romantic attraction example- I was in QPR once, but I often experienced romantic attraction towards my ex. For multitude of reasons (not due to lack of opportunities, my ex was a willing participant), I didn't/couldn't change the dynamic of our relationship into a romantic one. But the fact is, I did have romantic feelings and just because we half assed romance, doesn't mean it wasn't a romantic attraction.

 

Doing something to deliberately cause arousal in a person that you are attracted to, for whatever reason, even if no direct genital contact is involved is sexual attraction. An example is phone sex. The person on one end of the phone is deliberately saying stuff to another person who is masturbating. No physical contact is involved, but just because the sense of hearing is involved, it doesn't only make it a sensual thing. It is also sexual attraction if the person speaking is into the person masturbating.

 

Also, doing something with a person you are attracted to with the intention of experiencing arousal in yourself, is also sexual attraction.

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daveb

I missed where anyone said the intent was to cause arousal. Sometimes arousal happens without any intent to get there. Whether it's physical arousal or mental arousal it can still be a simple physiological reaction to certain stimuli, without any conscious effort to achieve arousal. (I include mental in that because brains are physiological, too)

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Iam9man
2 hours ago, Chihiro said:

Doing something to deliberately cause arousal in a person that you are attracted to, for whatever reason, even if no direct genital contact is involved is sexual attraction.

Watching someone you love experiencing pleasure can be quite enjoyable without experiencing sexual attraction. In fact, I probably get the opportunity to enjoy it more than people of other orientations would as I literally have nothing better to do during sex, as I’d rather not. Personal opinion/experience.

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Chihiro
25 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

Watching someone you love experiencing pleasure can be quite enjoyable without experiencing sexual attraction. In fact, I probably get the opportunity to enjoy it more than people of other orientations would as I literally have nothing better to do during sex, as I’d rather not. Personal opinion/experience.

There are sexuals who only like giving sexual pleasure, some who only like receiving. That doesn't make them any less sexual. Although popular culture would like us to believe that it should only be mutual. In fact, if there is libido mismatch between two sexuals, its common for one with lower libido to just give or to just help the other sexual to get off.

 

To draw a romantic parallel, I am someone who prefers doing romantic things, even enjoy someone 'I like' doing things like 'flirting' with other people but I get no pleasure when they show romantic gestures to me. That still makes me a romantic person, even though its a one way street for me.

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Iam9man
4 minutes ago, Chihiro said:

There are sexuals who only like giving sexual pleasure, some who only like receiving. That doesn't make them any less sexual. Although popular culture would like us to believe that it should only be mutual. In fact, if there is libido mismatch between two sexuals, its common for one with lower libido to just give or to just help the other sexual to get off.

 

To draw a romantic parallel, I am someone who prefers doing romantic things, even enjoy someone 'I like' doing things like 'flirting' with other people but I get no pleasure when they show romantic gestures to me. That still makes me a romantic person, even though its a one way street for me.

Cool. I can enjoy my partners pleasure during sex and I’m asexual 👍

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R_1
On 10/19/2019 at 11:04 PM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

Also please note: being naked isn't inherently sexual.

Nor have I said that. What I'm saying is that I just can't imagine kissing someone naked, and it isn't anything sexual because in a lot of cases, it does imply some degree of sexual tension. I feel that this has to do with perceptual difference on what makes something sexual.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

 

2 hours ago, R_1 said:

Nor have I said that. What I'm saying is that I just can't imagine kissing someone naked, and it isn't anything sexual because in a lot of cases, it does imply some degree of sexual tension. I feel that this has to do with perceptual difference on what makes something sexual.

You are seeing it as sexual because most of the times you've seen it in movies, sexual people are doing it. However if there are no genitals involved then it's literally just two naked people lying in bed kissing. I mean hey, I've lain mostly naked in bed with a person sucking on my boob... but that person was a baby and I was feeding it: That is very, very UN-sexual despite the fact that it would be sexual if two sexual people were doing it with each other. 

 

If you get two asexuals though and they enjoy kissing, and don't give a crap about clothes... then yeah, that's still asexual. NO SEXUAL PARTNER ON AVEN would be like 'yeah my wife gives me sex all the time because she gets too hot in bed if she has clothes on and she likes to give me a nice long kiss before sleep'.. NO SEXUAL PERSON counts that as sex so would still never be sexually satisfied in a relationship with someone if that's all the other person ever wanted to do, lol.

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Chihiro
7 hours ago, R_1 said:

Nor have I said that. What I'm saying is that I just can't imagine kissing someone naked, and it isn't anything sexual because in a lot of cases, it does imply some degree of sexual tension. I feel that this has to do with perceptual difference on what makes something sexual.

I feel the same. People usually do it to create sexual tension, which is enjoyable to them even when there is no sex involved.

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Philip027
Quote

You are seeing it as sexual because most of the times you've seen it in movies, sexual people are doing it.

That.

 

This is something my partner and I have done quite a bit, usually when we share a shower, for instance.  It still isn't anything inherently sexual for us, it doesn't create any tension -- and it isn't like we have zero sexual interactions, so we are both able to tell the difference.

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