Could use your thoughts

[anocis]

Dear all,

 

I am a sexual male in a longstanding (four years, three and a half years longer than any previous relationship I've been in) and (most of the time very) good relationship with an asexual female. Our relationship is beyond anything I could ever have imagined to have, and in my view we are as close to a perfect match as you can hope to come across once in your life, in all areas. Except one.

 

Before she ever heard of asexuality, we thought her sexual aversion was due to upbringing, traumatic experiences, vaginismus, and depression. All of these elements undoubtedly play their part, but whatever either of us attempted as a 'solution' to any of these (including botox treatment for vaginismus), it never led to an improvement that either of us was satisfied with. A relationship that worked in every other aspect slowly turned into one in which she avoided all physical contact out of fear that I would misread her initiating or going along with a hug or kiss as an invitation to sex, and in which my frustration (beyond sexual frustration) rose to untenable levels. We were very close to a breakup about half a year ago.

 

Back then, we discussed opening up our relationship. That was on the table for both of us, but we both had our misgivings. She feared that as soon as I would find "someone on the side" I would dump her. I feared that I would develop feelings for someone else, which would only further complicate an already complex situation. We eventually decided against it, not because either of us was in principle unwilling to open up our relationship, but because we couldn't see how it could work. She was not without jealousy, I was unhappy with the terms under which our relationship would be opened up.

 

After years of mutual misunderstanding, she recently found this forum, and today I visited here for the first time. She now identifies as asexual, which I had apparently already asked her months ago (although I do not specifically remember asking). This acknowledgement has led me to more understanding of her feelings about sex, as well as to her recognizing that she can never fulfill my needs when it comes to sex. This newfound mutual understanding was the basis for us to open up our relationship this evening. I am now formally allowed to go and find sexual partners outside of our relationship. She hopes this will relieve her of the tension when being around me, the fear that I will try to initiate sex, and the guilt she feels about me not being able to meet my sexual needs. I hope this will relieve the tension between us, her fear of me trying to initiate sex (which I'd already told her months ago wasn't going to happen), and that it will allow me to meet my sexual needs. This move is also supposed to save our relationship from inevitable doom in the longer run. Next year, I will be living abroad for one or two years, but not so far away that I will be unable to come home a couple of times a year. The prospect of me coming home and (in her mind) expecting/demanding/requesting/whichever sex is enough for her to want to break up before I leave. If our relationship is open, this will alleviate this fear, allowing us to stay together.

 

I had expected I would be elated. I am not. Instead, I am overwhelmed by despondency and a sense of loss, mourning even. The mourning is easily explained. This is to me a formalization of the fact that a sexual relationship with her is 'forever' off the table, which would've ultimately been my ideal situation. The despondency requires some further explanation.

 

Reentering the dating circuit (while being in a relationship) feels like stepping up onto a soccer pitch for the first time after years, but this time handicapped by ankle cuffs. Not only for my own sexual gain, but also for her peace of mind and (most importantly) in order to relieve the tension between us, I am supposed to find a girl that meets a set of conditions that I fear will be nigh impossible to meet. I will be looking for a woman with whom there's mutual attraction, no desire for a relationship beyond anything purely sexual, who is satisfied with having no hope of ever becoming 'the girlfriend' and me not always being available, and I will be on this unicorn hunt without the usual armory at my disposal: I cannot go through the usual dating mechanisms of dining, going out, etc. because of both my personal quirks and my commitment to my partner.

 

What are your thoughts? Did we do the right thing in opening up our relationship? Is this relationship tenable, or are we doomed to fail? How do I go about both preserving my relationship (which is my top priority) and at the same time fulfilling my sexual needs?

[Redshirt Jim]

 

I need clear answer: What do you want?

Because that is all depend on that. 

 

Before saving other, you've got to save yourself. Even to our partner. You habe to be stable and happilly enjoy single life before you can have relationship. Becuase that is then you can love her fully. Youbalready love yourself. That's already impressive. Then you can love her. 

 

Now, adter you love yourself, you can see what she wants. 

 

The most dire is no compromise zone,

After you know what you want 

you can't meet her needs, you have to leave. 

You can meet her needs, you stay. IF:her needs can collide with yours. 

 

What I am saying is emotionally detach. It is. I don't do feelings. I do counting. I do feasibility study. 

And that is it. 

 

At least with that, you can see the worst possible outcome. 

Here's the hint: things aren't as bad as you imagined it

 

Two asexuals can have problem regarding sex. Yes. It can happen. So what you are experiencing is not the end of the world. It is normal, human expirienced. We are all flawed and wierd. That's the beauty of it. 

 

 

Hope this helps. You can ask me here. I'm open for discussion. 

 

No, I'm not relationship advisor. Check my profile if you don't believe me.

🌻🔥Live Long and Prosper🔥🌻

 

[Traveler40]

Welcome anosis - I’m sorry to hear about your struggle, one many of us understand all too well. My initial thought while reading your story was you have quite a few parameters which will make the opening of your relationship complicated as you already see. My final thought as I got to the end of your post was “why not visit a brothel?”  I am not trying to be flippant: I’ve walked in your shoes.  I’m simply wondering if that might be easiest given the criteria.  

 

I also thought going abroad for so long may be a blessing for both of you. Distance may bring clarity and opportunity for unanticipated solutions in time. That may not sound comforting, but life has an interesting way of taking you on journeys you don’t see coming. 

 

I can’t answer your questions directly, only you can.  It appears you want to open the relationship yet fear that which you cannot control.  Make your decision, communicate on an ongoing basis, select carefully and embrace the decision.  That should give you the best odds.

[anocis]

Thank you both for your response.

 

I think what I want is to eat my cake and have it too, so to speak. I want to remain in this relationship while having my sexual needs fulfilled. Whether that's possible remains to be seen. My 'mission' is not so much saving her, but rather saving me by saving us. The depths we've been through and the emotional support she's provided me with in the darkest of hours (not for this thread, but believe me when I say we've been through stuff that could tear apart the closest of friends and irreparably damage the trust even between children and their parents) oblige me to do whatever is within my power to not let her investment in my well-being go to waste. 

39 minutes ago, Vernon Dunkin said:

I don't do feelings. I do counting. I do feasibility study. 

This speaks to me, as we are both on the autistic spectrum (I am formally, she is practically). Yet I do feelings, in spite of myself, and beyond my own understanding. The worst possible outcome is a breakup without any gains, without us being able to remain friends. I suppose I would be sort of okay with a breakup, provided we would be able to remain close friends, i.e. I am willing to lose the romantic label if the emotional connection would remain intact. That would require a lot from potential future partners, as being friends with 'the ex' is usually cause for tension in a relationship, let alone friends on the level we're currently on.

 

As for the suggestion of visiting a brothel: I have seriously considered that. Brothels are legal where I live, so there would be fairly little risk involved. Thing is, though, that the immediacy of payment for sex is a huge turnoff for me. I am pretty certain that could never work for me. One of the many things I learnt thanks to this relationship is that what I want/need is not so much sex in and of itself, but rather mutual desire, sex for who I am rather than sex per se. 

 

Going abroad certainly is supposed to be a blessing. It will potentially lead to better academic opportunities, as well as enriching my understanding of other (though not extremely different) cultures. Whether it will be a blessing to our relationship remains to be seen, however. That mainly depends on her, on whether she will still fear that I will try to initiate sex when I visit home. If she does, that will make our relationship impossible.

 

Having in the meantime read some of your other activity, Traveler040, I noticed the similarities between your situation and mine. How did you go about opening your relationship? Perhaps we could learn from you,

 

[MrDane]

hi @anocis

I hear you and share your pain.

Rigth now, you have both, taken a serious decision about opening up, so you can try to get some of the sex you need to be happy. (Or as I put it, to get the depression away that will otherwise take over and make it hard to receive/feel happy on other levels)

a swinger club is a place, as you probably know, where adults meet for the sole purpose to have sex. (...and without paying money for the sex! But for the membership)Perhaps this was a place to start, in your opening process? 

 

You are very welcome to write a personal message, and I am looking forward to hearing more about how your ‘project’ goes. 

[Redshirt Jim]

1 hour ago, anocis said:

Thank you both for your response.

 

I think what I want is to eat my cake and have it too, so to speak. I want to remain in this relationship while having my sexual needs fulfilled. Whether that's possible remains to be seen. My 'mission' is not so much saving her, but rather saving me by saving us. The depths we've been through and the emotional support she's provided me with in the darkest of hours (not for this thread, but believe me when I say we've been through stuff that could tear apart the closest of friends and irreparably damage the trust even between children and their parents) oblige me to do whatever is within my power to not let her investment in my well-being go to waste. 

It is not a waste. You live. That's not a waste. You need tot ake action and stop her. It may hurt her now, bit think of the future. 

 

Selfish is not livingthe way you want, it's forcing other to live the wayvyou want. 

 

 

Quote

This speaks to me, as we are both on the autistic spectrum (I am formally, she is practically). Yet I do feelings, in spite of myself, and beyond my own understanding.

Really? I never knew. People say I might be autistic because I approach thing mechanically. I think the closest thing I can see fit me is Machivalleian.

Quote

The worst possible outcome is a breakup without any gains, without us being able to remain friends.

IMO, it is best to sever it. Let her hate you for it. It is not pleasant. But it's better than "middle ground". It's not as pleasant as those movies and fiction. It is uncertainty. There is painful rememberance as lovers.

Quote

I suppose I would be sort of okay with a breakup, provided we would be able to remain close friends, i.e. I am willing to lose the romantic label if the emotional connection would remain intact.

I am sorry. But you ask something that is very hard to accomplish. Emotional most lilely remind her of the romantic aspect you had. 

Quote

That would require a lot from potential future partners, as being friends with 'the ex' is usually cause for tension in a relationship, let alone friends on the level we're currently on.

Yes. Very. 

Quote

As for the suggestion of visiting a brothel: I have seriously considered that. Brothels are legal where I live, so there would be fairly little risk involved. Thing is, though, that the immediacy of payment for sex is a huge turnoff for me. I am pretty certain that could never work for me. One of the many things I learnt thanks to this relationship is that what I want/need is not so much sex in and of itself, but rather mutual desire, sex for who I am rather than sex per se. 

I am sorry. But if she say no, mothing you can do. She has her own body autonomy. 

Quote

 

Going abroad certainly is supposed to be a blessing. It will potentially lead to better academic opportunities, as well as enriching my understanding of other (though not extremely different) cultures. Whether it will be a blessing to our relationship remains to be seen, however.

Sorry. Not enough data to asses.

Quote

That mainly depends on her, on whether she will still fear that I will try to initiate sex when I visit home. If she does, that will make our relationship impossible.

If she doesn't but do so in the next? What will you do? 

The possibility stil exist, and if it happens, what will you do?

I am going to say this very cruel thing:

Live with it, or Leave. 

Quote

 

🌻🔥Live Long and Prosper.🔥🌻

May this bring you clarity.

[Traveler40]

@anocis, my story can be found on the thread:  

Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - Truce!

That should clear up the questions with regard to opening my marriage.  

 

I have no regrets. However, it’s important to note that it’s not perfect, and I’m currently struggling.  The holidays were divisive to my relationship, and the sense of compromise on my time was not present.  I’m loyal and solid, yet my lover makes longer term decisions on shorter term feelings. This does nothing for my need for stability.  Why mention this?  Any depth of relationship will be more complicated than you appear to seek.  I need connection in order to open fully to the journey.  My biggest fear today is “going back into the box.”  I cannot go back into the box....

 

If I was put in the position to have to begin again (which may end up being the case) I will.

[roland.o]

5 hours ago, anocis said:

Reentering the dating circuit (while being in a relationship) feels like stepping up onto a soccer pitch for the first time after years, but this time handicapped by ankle cuffs.

It's a different kind of dating this time. Maybe you shouldn't call it dating, but hooking up? You're targetting a different audience. There are even different online dating sites for people with short-term interests as opposed to long-term interests. And you're not cuffed, because the people without long-term interests will consider it a plus that you're anchored in a relationship. So they have to worry less about you falling in love with them and suddenly expecting a long-term commitment.

 

2 hours ago, MrDane said:

a swinger club is a place, as you probably know, where adults meet for the sole purpose to have sex. (...and without paying money for the sex! But for the membership)

I have no practical experience, but in the reports I've seen or read about swinging, gender balance was pointed out as a problem. The reputable swinger clubs will expect men to attend in female company. The less reputable clubs will have female company for hire, close-by or at the bar. And then there are the clubs with many men and few women, which affects the mood in the club.

[MrDane]

7 hours ago, roland.o said:

 

 

I have no practical experience, but in the reports I've seen or read about swinging, gender balance was pointed out as a problem. The reputable swinger clubs will expect men to attend in female company. The less reputable clubs will have female company for hire, close-by or at the bar. And then there are the clubs with many men and few women, which affects the mood in the club.

Yeah, I have also (wink-wink) just read about this, by coincidence, without really noticing what I was looking at before it was too late  I thought it was a scientific paper about an item on childrens playground. The photos didnt match, though, 

 

...but you have a point and this backs up fine, the idea that more men  just want ‘the sex’ while women more often dont want it, unless connected to love or at least the rigth emotions/feel to it.

 

Personally, I dont know if I could do it. It is quite a leap from my starting point as a patient , easygoing, monogamistic, heterosexual man with a desire to find common ground and to give/receive mutual enjoyment through a combination of intimacy, physical contact and understanding/respect, together with my sexual, though a bit reserved and awkward about sex-wife. Things changed after 15 years though. (And with a change of the past as well!)