What it feels like to be trans, genderqueer or genderless

[Ferrari]

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

[Kappamaki]

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

Because not everyone wants to define themselves by their genitals, and most people don't experience romantic OR sexual attraction based on genitals.

[allrightalready]

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

i am really not interested in talking about my genitals with random people.

and i don't even date according to genitals, i date identity (female only)

[Heart]

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

I feel like this too sometimes. Gender is frustrating, especially with so many gender roles and cultural associations with it :(

I understand that it's important, but at the same time, it's frustrating :P

[TarinSai80]

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

Besides being transphobic, this sentiment reduces people to genitals. I'm not my genitals - I have an identity that has nothing to do with my genitals, and I don't like being reduced to that.

[whocaresthough]

For me, I've always been confused. I never thought of myself as trans, because I feel cool in a girl body. Kind of. For me, it's always been "Oh, I wish I were a guy because..." and then "Nah, that would suck because..." and also "Well, these boobs are always in the way, but a dick would be, too, if I had one." I've always been tomboyish, but I am quite artsy, so I draw on myself and paint my nails and wear earrings, though I'd refuse make-up. I think that being mtf or ftm has more difficult, yet easier trials than being agender. Being agender, there's always this dysphoria, and I think especially if you're asexual and have no use for your sexual organs. I wish I had a genderless body.

[Plectrophenax]

For me, I've always been confused. I never thought of myself as trans, because I feel cool in a girl body. Kind of. For me, it's always been "Oh, I wish I were a guy because..." and then "Nah, that would suck because..." and also "Well, these boobs are always in the way, but a dick would be, too, if I had one." I've always been tomboyish, but I am quite artsy, so I draw on myself and paint my nails and wear earrings, though I'd refuse make-up. I think that being mtf or ftm has more difficult, yet easier trials than being agender. Being agender, there's always this dysphoria, and I think especially if you're asexual and have no use for your sexual organs. I wish I had a genderless body.

Same. I don't have dysphoria, but I have zero vested interest in my body. If I had another body, I feel like nothing would change at all. People have explained my apparent cis-ness to me by stating that, were I to wake up in the opposite gender's body, I would be frustrated. But that frustration would only be linked to how weird what just happened was, and what implications for my social surroundings it has. It would have nothing to do with the gender itself [except for hygienic purposes]. I simply am forced to recognize that I have a body, and I'm forced to make use of and utilise it, including those parts that make it distinct from other bodies; my size, my skin tone, my gender.

Why is there even gender? why isn't it just by genitals or something? Like

"Hello im a vagina person. I don't like vaginas, penises or anything in between. I like hugs and cuddles."

or like

"Hello im a penis person and i like penis people. "

like why does gender even have to be a thing?

I completely get what you mean. It's why I'm so grateful places like this exist, because I really have a hard time grasping gender on my own, even though I try all the time and am usually very accustomed to following other people's trails of thought. I can just barely understand the significance put into genitalia, and from that I can understand why we have a gendered society and gendered language and gendered health care and so on. But I cannot at all understand the significance put into gender outside of genitalia. Aren't these just stereotypes? Accumulations of traits and expectations for some reason linked to one particular biological gender? Doesn't "male/female" just mean "like a man/woman", and "man/woman" mean "person with a specific biological makeup, including especially particular sexual organs"? Where is the importance here? Shouldn't we be past this? How can something be clearly distinct or characterised on this basis, except for biological bodies [and not even those fully]? I'm at a constant loss at this point, and it irks me to no end.

However, there's still a difference between the statement "I have x genitalia" and the statement "I like x genitalia". The latter is (sexual or sex-related) desire/interest/preference and there are many subtleties there. These subtleties do not exist with genitalia itself (rather they are incredibly rare and far less numerous) so it's a bit of a conflation to reduce both sexual interest and bodily self-perception in this way. That said, I might well also be called transphobic, because genitalia seem to me the only anchor point that makes the male/female dichotomy even remotely comprehendible.

Because not everyone wants to define themselves by their genitals, and most people don't experience romantic OR sexual attraction based on genitals.

They don't have to define themselves [exhaustively] by them, but they can still be described by them. Isn't that what pronouns do, weird and outlandish - upon inspection - that actually seems? "Oh look, there's my neighbour. He is..." What does 'he' mean in this case, aside from the fact that the person I'm making note of has male genitalia? It seems very strange, but I find it a lot stranger still to assume it means something else. What else could it even mean? A random set of attributes historically or socially linked to the word "he"? A mini-portfolio, as it were? How universal can such a thing be, and how much does it apply to my neighbour? A lot easier, it seems, to reduce it to genitals - and then find those to be irrelevant as well.

Fully with you regarding the attraction part, though.

i am really not interested in talking about my genitals with random people.

and i don't even date according to genitals, i date identity (female only)

Unfortunately, biological makeup is the first thing people see, and the first way you are categorised. Even if you aren't present, pronouns do the trick. Maybe we'll have an actually transparent and consequently applied change in linguistics soon to make this aspect less relevant grammatically, but we still don't. You are, indirectly, talking via your genitals all the time [not necessarly about them]. Very sobering thought, and I hope I'll be persuaded by others that this is not actually the case.

And, though this may be the wrong place to ask, what does "female" in your context mean? Does it have something to do with female bodily makeup or female genitalia? If not, then how can it possibly be defined sufficiently? I probably wouldn't fall under the category because I'm agender, but isn't it telling that I don't know for sure? I could be acting just like someone with "female identity" for all I know. Or is it the proclamation that counts? How do you distinguish lie and truth, then?

Besides being transphobic, this sentiment reduces people to genitals. I'm not my genitals - I have an identity that has nothing to do with my genitals, and I don't like being reduced to that.

The example is obviously simplistic. Clearly we have identities beyond genitalia, but Ferrari argued that those identities aren't gendered, or wouldn't have to be.

That isn't technically transphobic either, it just portrays a lack of understanding of many trans people's understanding of gender. Which shouldn't be surprising since there are many ways of understanding the term, and there's nothing stopping them from using a definition that excludes transgender people's usage - which, in turn, excludes theirs. Hopefully there's a way around conflicts and barricades of understanding like these, of course, but you can't just baselessly dismiss one understanding in favour of another. If your dismissal wasn't baseless, then please elaborate - I truly am keen to learn. Being called transphobic for one's perception and experience of gender is not much fun, after all.

[VindicatorPhoenix]

I have a male body but I don't like my facial hair and body hair. I always wanted long hair and I'm currently letting it grow as much as possible and I'm shaving by body hair.

As for my voice, it's slightly masculine but I wish it was more feminine.

I was born with a muscular frame that some slimmer guys wish they had, but I want their bodies (I wish I could trade), I want to be very slim to go for a certain androgynous look.

[Guest]

[Deleting]

[Koriander]

I'm cis male and happy with that but somehow I'm not happy how that I "have" to wear male clothing, I like female much more but I can't wear it in a 20k community without being harassed, so that makes me unhappy with how being male is, even though I'm male and happy, I just don't like how society forces me to dress up like a man cause I am and born one.

Wouldn't mind being a girl though, seriously, if I could choose. fuck yeah. but well, I'm still happy being male :D

Just sad.. :(

[SignerJ]

It seems to me that I might be experiencing dysphoria.

I feel a disconnection between me and my body. I feel as if my body is not mine. To me, it's like my body is something someone gave me when I was born and told me I would have to live with it for the rest of my life. Or a backpack that I have to carry in my back constantly. Maybe an outfit I wore for too long, since I came to this world. But my body being mine? Not really... And I know most people who have dysphoria already have an idea of how their bodies should look like, but I don't. I never thought seriously about this. I know this body is not mine but I don't know how I was supposed to be...

Other things that ring a bell are how when I was a kid and my breasts started to grow bigger (because I was growing up after all), I got really angry and sad, to the point my mother had to give me puberty blockers. I also disliked how I had big thighs... I also didn't liked being associated with the female gender. And I would sometimes spend days complaining about how I wish I was born a boy... Today I don't hate my body the way I used to when I was a kid, but I still see it as not being mine. No matter how I look at it, I have huge problems involving gender identity... And that makes me so depressed everyday.

People tell me maybe I am just sad about gender roles and things like that, but that's not it... I know that even if I cut my hair short, wear my brother's clothes, use a binder, etc., the world will still see me and treat me as a woman. "It's okay to be a masculine girl", they say, but that is not me. I know that even if I become one of those girls who says "Yeah, I'm one of the guys!", I will still be perceived as a woman, a female, a lady, a princess, etc. And that makes me too sad.

Others say I "Just screw everything, man, be who you want to be :)))" But they don't fucking understand that I can never be who I want to be because to the entire Earth, I am still something else.

Or maybe they say "Just do whatever you want, be it a girl thing or a boy thing, but I already do that because I honestly don't see anything as being a girl thing or a boy thing. Almost all things are genderless to me.

I feel this way, too. No matter what I do or how I identify as, everyone will look at my physical body and instantly think "boy" and lump me with all of those stereotypes and opinions and such that I hate so strongly. It's so infuriating that there is no way to stop that, and everyone else considers it normal and okay and doesn't see anything wrong with it. I can ignore the things I dislike about my own body, but I can't ignore how others perceive and interpret my body.

Same with the whole "boy thing/girl thing," too. To me, they're just "things," I rarely think of what gender(s) people arbitrarily attach to them. Personally, I don't like thinking about the associated genders.

Though, lately, I have started doing a few things because people associate with girls, solely for the sake of contradicting the whole "boy" assumption others make. Kind of like adding a -1 to a +7 in an attempt to feel closer to 0, even though I still don't associate the things with any specific gender myself.

[Guest]

[Deleting]

[Guest]

Its confusing to me I love being a female and i indentify as a female but i cant really connect with the typical girly things so i dont feel like a cis girl at all because if i really was then i should be able to enjoy the typical girly things and i hate them and then i wouldnt be questioning my gender at all. I wear male sneakers and carry girly hand bags I currently work for a truck builder handeling different types of truck parts but i have also worked as a maid in a hotel so i just think im a mix of both male and female or something inbetween

I just use the label agender but i honestly wouldnt have a clue wich "label" would be the right one for me but i guess i have plenty time to figure that one out.

[thunderpetal]

Being a transgender, to me it's just like "I am always misgendered" since people never understand I want to be male. Some people I live around don't understand there are more than just two genders.

[Heart]

If there was a movie about my life and I watched it, I doubt I would think "Ah, yes, this is the life of your typical cis girl".

Like, fuck, no... I have these problems since I was 4 years old. Four. It can't be just my imagination.

It most likely isn't just your imagination. Though I think we all go through that period of doubt... What might be useful is reading the article, HypotheCis, that I have linked in my moderator introduction, pinned in this forum. Sorry, I'm on a terrible airport internet connection right now, so I can't link it for you. But maybe someone else could, if they get here first? But the point is, many of us go through a period of wondering if it's our imagination, and trying to convince ourselves it's not. We are, most of us, our own worst critics, after all...

Its confusing to me I love being a female and i indentify as a female but i cant really connect with the typical girly things so i dont feel like a cis girl at all because if i really was then i should be able to enjoy the typical girly things and i hate them and then i wouldnt be questioning my gender at all. I wear male sneakers and carry girly hand bags I currently work for a truck builder handeling different types of truck parts but i have also worked as a maid in a hotel so i just think im a mix of both male and female or something inbetween

I just use the label agender but i honestly wouldnt have a clue wich "label" would be the right one for me but i guess i have plenty time to figure that one out.

Again, I'm on bad internet, but check out the link in my signature for the master definitions list. You may be interested, in particular, in the definitions of bigender, androgyne, and genderfluid. See if any of those speak to you :)

[Guest]

[Deleting]

[Guest]

Again, I'm on bad internet, but check out the link in my signature for the master definitions list. You may be interested, in particular, in the definitions of bigender, androgyne, and genderfluid. See if any of those speak to you :)

Sorry for the late response i just came back from a short holiday

I hope you dont mind but im going to give you a big hug because these 3 described exactly how i think and feel for all these years and i have to say that the Genderfluid one really popped out of the 3 im really happy because i can finnaly say: Hey thats the term for me it really made sense.

I never knew there were terms for it so thanks alot for taking the time to write that master list i really appriciate this!

[Guest]

 

 

[Deleting]

[Emery.]

Cis people may wonder about being the opposite sex, but they do not obsessively dream of it. Cis people do not constantly go over the question of transition, again and again, throughout their lives. Cis people do not find themselves in this kind of crisis. Cis people do not secretly spend every birthday wish on wanting to wake up magically transformed into the "opposite" sex, nor do they spend years developing increasingly precise variations of how they'd like this wish to be fulfilled. Cis people don’t spend all-nighters on the internet secretly researching transition, and secretly looking at who transitioned at what age, how much money they had, how much their features resemble their own, and try to figure out what their own results would be. Cis people do not get enormously excited when really terrible movies that just happen to include gender-bending themes, like Switch or Dr. Jekyl And Mrs. Hyde, randomly pop up on late night TV, and stay up just to watch them.

I actually started crying because I do each one of those things, and I'm honestly desperate to feel like my identity is valid, and your article gave me life. That part about gender-bending/genderswap tho... That's too me.

This ^^

I haven't spend my birthay wishes on gender topics, though.

Surfsushi, you don't have to do bottom surgery, you can change your name, legal gender, get top surgery and take T. Or do only hysectomy.

Spoiler: genitals

However, clitoris might grow a bit on T, but not as large as a cis man's penis. Maybe up to 5 cm? It's depends on the individual a lot

A lot of trans men don't do bottom for various reasons.

[Guest]

[Deleting]

[Emery.]

Ah, so you worry more about social transition... I feel you.

edit: People are always going to criticise you. It is totally understandable that you worry about it, but don't let it stop you from reaching for what you want. If you decide to change something in your life, be it gender or occupation or the country you live in, there will always be comments. Just do what feels right.

As for partner, I can't tell you, I'm not an expert (time spent dating in my life is rather small :P). But it sounds like your relationship doesn't work as well as it shoud. Pretending you're happy and denial won't take you anywhere good, just things will get more difficult to unwind. What he does seems similar to my mom, oddly (in non-transgender situations). The part "if you're unhappy, it's my fault". Good news: it's curable ;) You just have to persistently explain where your feelings stem from and that it has nothing to do with him. Tell him what you wrote here, how your feelings date back to childhood, and you'll be always the same person anyways, but with different packaging.

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[NuwandaSnicket]

Hello. I am demi, and I am also a librarian who is searching for books that are up to date on gender issues. All books at libraries in my state (CT) only really cover GLBT, no information on ace, demi, pan, etc. I really want to have this information available, so a coworker and I are on the search for good books with real, helpful information. If anyone knows any I would love to hear of them!

[Heart]

Again, I'm on bad internet, but check out the link in my signature for the master definitions list. You may be interested, in particular, in the definitions of bigender, androgyne, and genderfluid. See if any of those speak to you :)

Sorry for the late response i just came back from a short holiday

I hope you dont mind but im going to give you a big hug because these 3 described exactly how i think and feel for all these years and i have to say that the Genderfluid one really popped out of the 3 im really happy because i can finnaly say: Hey thats the term for me it really made sense.

I never knew there were terms for it so thanks alot for taking the time to write that master list i really appriciate this!

Haha. I guess it's my turn to apologize for the late response; I just got back from a two week vacation myself ;)

And your welcome. I'm so glad the definitions helped!! I worked hard on them, it's so nice to hear when they are useful. My hard work is paying off :D

Oh, and welcome to gender fluidity. I am also genderfluid, it's nice to have one more person join my team :3

A lot of trans men don't do bottom for various reasons.

I'm more scared of what how people around me would react. I would hear the classical stuff...

"But you were great as a girl!"

"Why so sudden? You always seemed so happy about being a girl!"

"But you like 'girl things'! You can't be a guy!"

Not only that, but my current partner sees me as a girlfriend and really dislikes when I talk about my gender and stuff. Whenever I say something about identifying as a guy, he always says things like "I knew we wouldn't work out! We should break up already, I can't stand being in a relationship like this." He gets agressive and tells me to leave him alone and go live as a man with someone else.

He thinks the fact that I'm uncomfortable with my assigned gender is because he is not being good enough to me. He thinks it's his job as a boyfriend to make me feel comfortable as a woman, to make me like being a woman, to make me cis. He thinks if I'm not, then he's not a good partner.

So what do I do? Pretend I'm cis and happy so he won't guilt trip me or get mad...

I am sending all my sympathies... One of my partners, who I have been with for 6 yrs or so, started off by being that way about my asexuality. He never said explicitly that he'd break up with me for it, but he did a lot of the other things I hear you saying. Feeling like I was ace only because he wasn't "adequate" or wasn't "attractive" enough. Disliking when I talked about it. Getting grumpy about it when we did talk about it. But over time, he came to be more ok with it. And then he did it a little with my gender too, making it known that he didn't like the masculine genders of mine (I'm genderfluid, so I swing around the gender space slowly but uncontrollably and seemingly randomly). As if the masculine me's weren't still me... :( But again, we've been working on it, and things are better.

I guess it's a testament to our communication that we've gotten this far, 4 years after I came out as ace, one year after coming out as genderfluid to him (yes, I'm slow ). It's slow, and painful a lot of the time, but he's worth it. Every moment of it. I wouldn't want to do it over again, and I hope to never have to, but I don't regret a moment of it. Past me did the work, so present me is thankful to be able to reap the benefits ;)

I'm not going to sugar-coat it though. We broke up a few times in there. And then got back together determined to try again and be better, and then broke up again, and then got back together... it was a long, hard, and painful journey. He was worth it, but at no point was there ever a guarantee that it would work out in the end. Such is life. And it's your choice whether you decide to go through with it. Because what you describe could also very easily be a borderingly abusive scenario. I'm sure it's not; I don't mean to speak badly of your partner. I'm sure he's an amazing person. But remember that a partner that constantly picks away at your identity can be very harmful to your health, whether or not they mean to be. Remember to take care of yourself, and to value yourself. And then make your own decision on whether the relationship is worth it or not. Either way is a great and respectful decision, so long as it is what you want.

Hello. I am demi, and I am also a librarian who is searching for books that are up to date on gender issues. All books at libraries in my state (CT) only really cover GLBT, no information on ace, demi, pan, etc. I really want to have this information available, so a coworker and I are on the search for good books with real, helpful information. If anyone knows any I would love to hear of them!

Wow. I don't know. I know ace books, but no real gender books with good non-binary coverage. For ace books, you can try wandering over the the World Watch forum, they have an asexual bookshelf (that link is to the most recent one, but I think that thread itself links back to past ones as well). And for gender books.... I honestly have no real answer, sorry :( You could maybe try the genderqueer watch, but that's more often articles than books...

Edited August 30, 2015 by Heart

[Guest]

[Deleting]

[Emery.]

You just reminded me of my ex, surfsushi. The ex from the time of one of my first gender doubts. It is really hard to discover yourself in the middle of a relationship. My ex had some sort of energy that made me feel like a guy. He just did. I don't know why or how. I wanted to protect him, to be his handsome person. And it alternated with urges of femininity too. But never before have I felt like a guy so much. He was submissive in some sense. So my inner dude flew out, I was behaving like a dude a lot and emphasised my masculinity every once in a while. But he laughed at me and it really hurt. Really, really hurt. I think he felt insecure that his girlfriend was more masculine than she was, even though I dressed and looked very feminine at this time. Maybe part of the problem was that who I was, was hidden, and my presentation attracted the wrong kind of people, those who expected that feminine girl they saw and were attracted to her, not the real me on the inside. I didn't know what was happening, too. It all happened like out of the blue. I didn't ever expect I could feel this way. I had thought that I will always feel like a princess with a man by my side.

The point being, maybe you too attracted the wrong kind of person with not the realistic kind of expectations.

[Guest]

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[ixi]

surfsushi: I hope you feel better soon!

[Heart]

Thank you, Heart. You always give us the best words, right when we need them.

A few days ago he broke up with me. He was mean and cold. Just left me like it was nothing. But I think it was for the best... Because even though he would always tell me how much he loved me, he was keeping me unhappy. It was the "I love you but you are suffocating me" case. And I thought that maybe it would be better for me to find someone who wouldn't be angry at me just for being myself... I thought it was only fair. I realized that he never even tried to see me as someone of the gender I identify as. He always saw me as a woman, a girlfriend, a wife, etc. But never who I really was, and if that's not depressing then I don't know what it is. To be honest, when we were still together, I could feel his affection fading away more and more each passing day. There were times in which it seemed that he didn't even see me as a person (he called me "it" the day we broke up).

I just think that maybe I should meet someone who actually wants to see me happy, rather than trying to make me hide who I am.

I don't want to live this kind of sad life in which I have to obey someone and act only the way they let me.

Anyways, I would be nice to have someone to talk more about this in private. I don't have anyone I can really talk to, after all... Not about certain things.

I am sending you as much cake as the internet bandwidths will allow. I would love to talk in PM with you if that works. I can't guarantee I'll answer every day or every time I'm on here (sometimes I can only pop on briefly for mod duties) but I think we have a lot in common. I would really like to offer a hand to you <3