Theory for my personal asexuality

[Ninny]

I've been musing recently over possible "causes" for my asexuality. I'm very much into the whole nature/nurture debate and whilst I believe I may have just been 'born this way' part of me is inclined to think there may be environmental factors too.

I believe a possible factor may have been: (dum dum dum) Yaoi.

When this idea came to me it actually made a lot of sense. I first stumbled across yaoi during my early teens (14ish), during my sexual 'devlopment'. Now, prior to this I used to develop crushes on anime characters, and although these weren't sexual (i'd dream of dating them/being romantic/kissing etc but nothing explicit :P) the important thing was that it included myself and whoever.

When I discovered yaoi however this all changed. I started thinking about the characters I had previously had crushes on being with each other rather than with myself and it suddenly seemed odd (even impossible) for me to think of myself with them anymore.

Okay, my theory is this: During my sexual development if found myself focusing on the relationships (sexual/romantic) of others and so neglected my own. Therefore, it could be argued, that due to my self 'neglect' I never developed sexually (as in attraction, i'm in full working order otherwise ;) ) or romantically (I'm aromantic, yet I am capable of romantic feelings, I just dont seek it out) I guess I just bypassed the whole (non physical) puberty thing. When my friends were busy talking about boys and who they'd like to kiss I was too busy thinking about boys kissing each other to give a damn about my own romance :P

I'm not saying had I not become interested in yaoi i'd most certainly be sexual - then again, who knows, maybe :lol:

So yeah, I blame yaoi :lol: Although I am perfectly happy being ace and have no desire to change :)

I know this is just a theory for my asexuality, but it'd be interesting to see if anyone can maybe relate to this?

[theflyingclubcup]

*waves hand furiously*

I do, I do!

I discovered slash about two years ago, when I was 13. Before I found it I would tend to pair male characters I had crushes on with female characters I liked (not usually myself). In 3rd grade I had a dream that Gordo from Lizzy McGuire proposed to me, though... :lol:

Then over the horizon came the glory that is slash. Now I exclusively pair the male characters I like with other male characters I like (subtext is nice, but I'll throw it to the wind if need be). If there's only one male character in a series, I'll pair him with himself, goshdarnit!

Not sexually, though. I've just never really liked fic or doujinshi that is sexual (although I guess that's kind of the point of slash). It just sort of makes me like the characters less. So I'd say slash didn't make me asexual, but it might have made me more aromantic (I'm hyporomantic) and it's definitely made me very happy! :D

[Enygmista]

Haha that is an interesting theory. I can understand where you're coming from since I had a similar experience growing up as well.

The only reason I can't completely agree with the idea is because I know plenty of sexual people who love slash as well. And that just makes me feel like slash is something that can appeal to anyone who's interested regardless of sexuality. But maybe I'm biased because I've always believed in nature over nurture.

Still, it's an interesting idea.

[Atolm_Dragon]

Wait, not all yaoi is sexual? I never knew that!!!!! Is the appeal 2 pretty boys kissing and nothing more?

Also I have a question about being aromantic - so from what you said Ninny you can have wild romantic feelings but no desire to act upon them? That sounds like me! Though I don't know if I'm just shy. When I was small I used to hit anyone who got in my personal space, and I still have the temptation to do that

[Ninny]

Wait, not all yaoi is sexual? I never knew that!!!!! Is the appeal 2 pretty boys kissing and nothing more?

Also I have a question about being aromantic - so from what you said Ninny you can have wild romantic feelings but no desire to act upon them? That sounds like me! Though I don't know if I'm just shy. When I was small I used to hit anyone who got in my personal space, and I still have the temptation to do that

Oh my yaoi day dreaming was sexual...oh so sexual :D ;)

Also I wouldn't say I have 'wild' romantic feelings, but I'm capable of feeling romantic - basically i'd have crushes on guys (real guys :D) but i'd have no real desire to follow it up - I guess I was content with the 'one-sided love' (actually recently i've found this to be true - once I get with a guy and the chase is over as it were the magic goes). I had a boyfriend once - I kinda made myself go out with him, just to see what it'd be like, and I loved him very much and felt very romantic towards him, therefore I am capable of romance but, as i've said, I don't seek a romantic relationship - just in that case a relationship happened :P

[AVENCakes]

I never got the crushes/falling in love with fictional characters thing. I mean, they don't really exist. Empathizing with and all that, sure, wishing they were real, but I never really got crushes on them. I don't think I ever di the pairing until I found out about yaoi, though, and then I just chose pairings I liked. I think remus/sirius and draco/harry slashfics were the only reason I kept reading HP.

In 3rd grade I had a dream that Gordo from Lizzy McGuire proposed to me, though... :lol:

Gordo was pretty awesome. I was mad that they ended up together. >_< Can you say "predictable"?

Wait, not all yaoi is sexual? I never knew that!!!!! Is the appeal 2 pretty boys kissing and nothing more?

I think shounen-ai is PG/PG-13 yaoi, so that isn't sexual (although it can be implied), and usually involves chaste kisses and the like, and not gong any farther, while yaoi is the hentai version. I think with that, the appeal is 2 pretty boys kissing and being romantic and all the other things that make the romance genre appealing.

[M.H.]

OMG! yes! yaoi :lol:

though...my exposure to yaoi didn't come until my older teen years...so i'm not sure that i'm quite capable of blaming it...though i can blame it for my pervertedness ^_^

on a side note, as a joke to my best friend, i said, "This relationship will never work...you only like boys, and i only like boys with other boys." (this came shortly around the time that i "proposed" to her using pocky for a ring :lol:)

long live yaoi

(and the occassional nosebleed inducing fantasy :lol:)

oh, yeah...side note...i also loved Gordo ^_^

[Wings of a Dream]

Hmm, I can see where you're coming from with this. Can't apply it to me since I was already asexual before I discovered slash/yaoi (though admittedly wasn't aware of it at that time). But I can definitely understand the theory and think, "yep, could have a point with this".

[Raumo]

Interesting idea.

I too discovered slash/ yaoi in my early teens, and along with my friends got worryingly into it. Oddly enough, pretty much all of them are out as bi now I think, so I think yaoi probs has some effect on sexual development.

Then again, as I got older (and more ace) I realised I wasnt such an avid slasher, I just wanted the characters to be friends and spend time together rather than jump into bed with each other....Im a friendshipper....oh dear.

[Asevela]

I think something similar (but not quite) happened to me.

While I didn't discover yaoi until mid teens, I discovered anime way earlier, and I think I spent so much time paying attention to the anime guys that I kind of switched from real guys onto them (they don't really look like real guys). Kind of like how the western world and a tribe in Africa wouldn't consider the same things beautiful.

Then again, I can't stand looking at a guy I actually know the personality of doing 'it.' They just seem so nasty and out of character. (Aka, the actual guy from the anime would never have sex, no mater who they are.)

[lilgreenmouse]

OMG! it's such a relief to see I'm not abnormal and deranged after all for loving shonen-ai/yaoi and being ace! =D You guys all rock, :cake:!!!

I wouldn't go as far as saying yaoi is the reason behind my asexuality, but yaoi (and shonen-ai) was DEFINITELY the reason why I never glanced twice at real people (but that changed after seeing a couple j-rockers *drools*). You could say I was a proud nose-bleeding fangirl since I was 14 =D

I blame yaoi for making me think hetero relations are boring and oh-so-predictable though (in stories,manga, etc). Where's the spice in the usual combo? <_< But now that you mention it, I suppose yaoi/shonen-ai did have some effect on my 'sexual development' as well...I'm a bi-ace, but I tend to think being with a girl would provide a closer/safer relationship. @.@ Also, I have a tendency to think androgyny and effeminate guys are cute/hot (without being sexually attracted to them ofc), whereas many of the ppl I know would just go "he looks like a girl. ew". >.<

And since we're on the topic, if anyone knows any good yaoi/shonen-ai mangas (or even well-written fanfictions!), please share! =)

[theflyingclubcup]

Ooh, we can make this thread the asexual yaoi fangirl community! =D

Some good published shonen-ais I've read:

Kaze To Ki No Uta by Takemiya Keiko: This is actually the first published shonen-ai manga ever. The creator was bored of her historical tragedy genre and wanted to spice it up, so she changed the girl into a pretty boy and voila! This one was made in 1976, so expect lots and lots of sparkles (which I happen to adore).

Camera Camera Camera by Kazura Matsumoto: This one isn't anything spectacular, but it's clear, has nice but not overly pretty art, and has likable characters that aren't ridiculously uke or seme.

To be honest, though, most of the shonen-ai I read is in webcomics. The webcomic community Smackjeeves has craploads of bl comics. I actually have my own, but I haven't had time to update lately. When I get around to it I'll definitely shamelessly whore it here... ^^

Some good shonen-ai webcomics:

Honeydew Syndrome by Autobrig is a really good and really popular high-school romance bl. The first story arc is best in my opinion, but the current ones are still nice. http://www.honeysyn.net/

A Song for Elise by Nattserier: This one is about a guy in an emo band in Sweden or thereabouts and his troubled friend Elise. It's much better and gayer than it sounds. http://asongforelise.smackjeeves.com/

Acid Monday by Danielle Keller is about a guy whose mother owns a drug rehab center being recruited to "fix" an overly cheery acidhead. http://acidmonday.smackjeeves.com/

Cloe Remembrance by Heldrad is a lovely shonen-ai set in the Victorian period. The main couple is 11-year-old gardener's son Liam and the his young master the bratty 12-year-old Edward, but there's also a nice side couple in the stable boy Henry and Edward's big brother Richard. It's quite cute and much less kinky than it sounds. There's only one sex scene and it's very non-graphic and NOT between the children (agh!). http://cloe.smackjeeves.com/

Forest Dew is Heldrad's completed one-shot shonen-ai set in the 1920s about a temporarily blind boy and a forest spirit that can only be sensed by blind people. It's beautiful and touching, especially with the pretty background music on the website. http://forestdew.smackjeeves.com/

Colors is Heldrad's next shonen-ai project. From her blurb:Chad is a troublemaker who thinks everyone and everything is against him. He thinks school is a jail, and the adults, his executioners...

What happens when he meets Ewan, the happiest boy on Earth?

This is the coming of age story of a teenager that finds a new meaning to his colorless life...

Can you tell I've got a huge thing for Heldrad? ^^; http://xcolorx.smackjeeves.com/

Square Pegs by ticky is a cute, colorful, and quickly-done shonen-ai about a dentist's son with a tooth fetish. He sneaks in to work on a cute patient when his parents are out of the room, falls in love with his teeth, and kisses him. Turns out the guy is in his school. Cue awkward moments. It hasn't been updated in a while, though... http://squarepegs.smackjeeves.com/

Please Kill Me! by a2mania is nice, I think, but I haven't read it in a while. The art is sketchy but pretty. http://pkm.smackjeeves.com/

BoisCry is an odd little shonen-ai quickly scribbled on lined paper about an insomniac and a schizophrenic in a mental hospital. http://boiscry.smackjeeves.com/

Platonic Love by beautiful-shinigami is definitely one of the most fanservicey shonen-ais on Smackjeeves, and one of the prettiest-drawn. It's about a college student who's in love with his roommate, but the roommate wants to keep it platonic. http://platonic-love.smackjeeves.com/

Puppy Love by Kumi Pumi - I haven't read this one, but it's really popular on Smackjeeves. http://puppy-love.smackjeeves.com/

All In Your Head by Tteok is a really well-drawn and double-entendre-saturated shonen-ai (so far) about an incredibly socially awkward guy working in a computer store that accidentally gets into a relationship with some kind of playboy. http://allinyourhead.smackjeeves.com/

Spina Cage isn't exactly a shonen-ai yet, but it's a retelling of Beauty and the Beast with the Beauty being a boy, so it will definitely get those overtones soon. It's quite nice besides. http://spinacage.smackjeeves.com/

I'm telling you, though, there are piles and piles of good shonen-ai webcomics on Smackjeeves. The nice thing about webcomics is you can have a relationship with the creator and even influence the story. Smackjeeves is really a nice little community... ^^

[theflyingclubcup]

I don't tend to like yaoi much because I don't like porn and because I just can't see rape as an expression of love.

The only yaoi of that type I've liked much was Imadoki no Shishunki because it isn't particularly graphic and because it portrays the rape as not an expression of love but of the seme's failure to control himself, not a way to start their relationship but the force that broke their lifelong friendship apart, and incredibly traumatic for both parties. It also emphasizes that they're too young to be even knowing about that kind of stuff (they're freshmen in high school, I think). Anyway, it was a reccomendation from my love Heldrad, so I'd like it anyway. ^^;

[Werekitten]

Just thought I'd chuck in here and raise my hands to the heavens, enthusiastically screaming "YES!"

Yaoi = love. Since I was *mumblemumble* Ok, techincally at *mumblemumble* it was slash, but details.

Don't think it's the reason I'm asexual though.

[theflyingclubcup]

I wish I had friends irl that are into yaoi, though. =( The only one that even knows about it is against it because she doesn't think gay men should be fetishized... which makes me feel guilty... :redface:

[Wings of a Dream]

I don't tend to like yaoi much because I don't like porn and because I just can't see rape as an expression of love.

Wow, generalisation much XD I avoid the rape as well, but it's not like you can't find any yaoi anywhere that doesn't include rape.

[mad_scientist]

I've never read yaoi or yuri. Occasionally stumbled into roleplays that head in this direction, but quickly become bored and have to back out due to my inability to write (and lack of interest in) romance scenes. (No, I'm not aromantic, I just don't find romances other than my RL one very interesting.)

[Grey-A]

Hello there, Yaoi / Slash Fans!! ^_^

I too discovered Slash in my late teens and I read romantic Slash fiction now and then. I don't really like sexual slash.. just romantic slash and mainly for its comedy value in slash fan videos. :P

I love trying to find the slashy sub-text in the TV shows I watch! I don't know why exactly... but I mostly like slash for its comedy value.

Anyway.. I don't think its got anything to do with my blurry sexuality... I consider myself to be a grey asexual (if you didn't guess from my user name! )... But its definitely an interesting theory! And as I don't really understand my sexuality... I can't completely rule out slash as a suspect! ^_^

I still have crushes on guys and fantasize about being in relationships (even sexual relationships sometimes)... but where there is subtext or even the slightest hint of a bromance between two male characters... I can't help seeing the slashy side! Just for fun! :P

[Val]

In middle school Yaoi was extremely popular among the girls in my class, they were reading everything from fluff to hard. I started buying slash from eBay for my friends (and taking a cut ;))because I was the only one at the time who had a credit card. Actually it was my parents' card and they let me use it because it amused them to see me make a profit. Really should have looked at some of those descriptions before I bought them though. The doujinshi would come in the mail and the parental units would say "oo what's that?" and I'd flip through, find out not all the stuff I was buying was fluff and say "...kids book. Don't think you'd be interested."

I'm fond of the fluff though.

[Werekitten]

I don't tend to like yaoi much because I don't like porn and because I just can't see rape as an expression of love.

Wow, generalisation much XD I avoid the rape as well, but it's not like you can't find any yaoi anywhere that doesn't include rape.

But don't you know in yaoi rape = love? ;)

[oneofthesun]

I have a friend who says that romance novels ruined her for real men. I blame my dad (he's a saint lol)

[theflyingclubcup]

Ooh, yaoi that doesn't have rape? =o Recs plzthx!

[lilgreenmouse]

wow, that's a pretty good list you've got there theflyingclubcup :lol: And just in time too, my 'manga itch' has been bothering me for quite a while now, and I was getting bored with my usual bleach/xxxholic combo. I haven't discovered any good mangas as of late and my shonen-ai knowledge is really limited to fanfics, but now I have the opportunity to broaden my manga knowledge a bit. 8)

If I find anything new on my end, I'll be sure to post!

(which reminds me, should we actually create a whole new thread for the Shonen/shojo-Ai/yaoi/yuri-loving fans?)

[Grey-A]

(which reminds me, should we actually create a whole new thread for the Shonen/shojo-Ai/yaoi/yuri-loving fans?)

I have heard of yaoi and some of those other terms.. but I'm still blurry on the difference between yaoi and slash.

Are there specific definitions for each, or are yaoi and slash pretty much the same thing?

There seems to be some overlap and I've looked up definitions before, but its still a grey area for me. I just generally consider them to be the same.

[Sciatrix]

(which reminds me, should we actually create a whole new thread for the Shonen/shojo-Ai/yaoi/yuri-loving fans?)

I have heard of yaoi and some of those other terms.. but I'm still blurry on the difference between yaoi and slash.

Are there specific definitions for each, or are yaoi and slash pretty much the same thing?

There seems to be some overlap and I've looked up definitions before, but its still a grey area for me. I just generally consider them to be the same.

Generally speaking, yaoi in fanfiction is a term applied to anime/manga fandoms, while slash typically is applied more to Western fandoms. Slash can also be used to apply to female/female pairs, although it's more typically applied to male/male pairings. Yaoi can also apply to non-fanfiction publications like doushinji, IIRC, but I'm not as familiar with that.

I like slash, primarily for the emotional fic. Not so much yaoi, simply because I don't hang out much in the anime/manga world anymore and I've developed a visceral dislike for the term because I keep seeing it applied where it doesn't fit. (Random Japanese in anime/mange fandom is annoying, but understandable--seeing it in, say, Harry Potter fic? No thank you.)

[Werekitten]

Usually the female the equivilant of slash for f/f is fem-slash.

[theflyingclubcup]

Well, the various terms are pretty vague and vary in definition within the community, but here are the most widely-accepted definitions.

Yaoi - A genre of anime and manga concerning two males in a sexual relationship. In Japan, this term is used almost exclusively for pornography, since the word yaoi is an abbreviation for the Japanese for "no climax, no plot, no point." Here, though, June manga (the distributer for pretty much all English-translated yaoi and shonen-ai) uses it for all their male/male works.

Shonen-ai - This means "boy love" in Japanese. Here, it refers to non-explicit romance manga and anime between males. In Japan, though, it was used only very briefly in the 70s to refer to a certain subgenre of historical male/male romance and today means pederasty.

BL or Boys' Love - This is the term used in Japan today to refer to all male/male regardless of explicitness. Here is is also used, but usually only for non-explicit works.

Slash - Refers to "pairing" between established male characters in media or occasionally real celebrities. Originated in the 70s in explicit fanfictions women wrote between Spock and Kirk from Star Trek and published in zines. The word "slash" refers to the symbol used between the names (Spock/Kirk) to differentiate these fanfic from friendship fic (Spock & Kirk). The female version is called femslash, if it is considered a separare genre.

Shipping or pairing - Making relationships between characters.

Lemon - A hard porn fanfic.

Lime - A soft porn fanfic.

Doujinshi - Fan-made manga using charcters in other works.

There, that should do for now. ^^ If anyone wants other definitions, we can put them on.

And we don't need another yaoi/yuri thread; this can be it! =D Maybe we can get Ninny to change the title and get a mod to move it to Off-A.

There's also another thread about yaoi and yuri I made a while back that's somewhere on this section...