The self doubt is coming back...

[an18059]

Wow, it's been a while since I've been on here... I've been really busy recently, and I guess I've felt happy and secure in my identity for a while so I haven't had as much need to be checking out forums and stuff. But after talking to my friend about some stuff I wanted to clarify a few things.

So, my friend and I sometimes talk about having crushes and stuff cause we both have one right now, and she knows I'm ace and says she's straight herself (well, I'm not sure if she's explicitly said it although she may have, but it's obvious from when we talk that that's how she identifies). I sometimes bring asexuality into it, saying how it makes everything so much more complicated cause I don't want sex to be a necessary or expected thing if I was to be in a relationship, and I also say how I wouldn't want a typical relationship, and even though I'm alloromantic I don't get kissing and don't see why anyone would want to do it. She seems to agree with a lot of that stuff, like she says she doesn't get kissing either and that she wouldn't want a normal kind of relationship.

Also, I talked to her a while ago, not too long after I first came out to her I think, about not really feeling the whole "hot" vibe like when people say it about celebrities or someone, cause obviously I'm not sexually attracted to them. She said she didn't mean it as she was sexually attracted to them either, just that she found them good looking or whatever, which I was kind of surprised by cause that's what I thought people used it to mean.

We were talking about similar type things yesterday, and again I was complaining about how annoying it was that my brain doesn't have any of the actual sexual stuff but it has everything else linked to it to make me attracted to people in other ways (yeah my complaining is pretty repetitive, I'm surprised she hasn't gotten bored of me by now). After I said that she basically said to me that she didn't know what I thought she felt when she liked someone, but she "rarely" likes someone and thinks about having sex with them. The conversation carried on a bit and I said I wouldn't ever link arousal to a person, and she seemed to get confused about it and eventually said she wasn't sure she knew what it meant to be attracted to someone sexually cause she wasn't sure she'd had it before or knew what it felt like. However she didn't seem to think this was significant or meant anything, and we ended the conversation around about there so she didn't comment on it further.

Obviously I can't tell how she actually feels, and she may find it hard to explain about different kinds of attraction and she might not have been able/wanted to explain everything about how she feels towards people she likes. But from what she says a lot of the time, she seems to feel a lot of the same ways as me in ways that I would think were linked to my asexuality. Clearly I'm not gonna say to her I think she might be ace or anything, but on the flip side her basically having a lot of the same experiences as me but identifying as straight is making me question my identity a lot, and is bringing back that horrible feeling of doubt where I wonder if I'm just being dramatic and wanting to be different, and the idea that maybe I do just feel the same as everybody else but don't realise it.

So, after all that waffle, I have a few questions I was hoping people could help answer:

1) Is it normal for straight teens, particularly girls, to feel sexual attraction/desire towards the person they're crushing on romantically? Like is it naturally there as part of the package, or does it come later? Do people think about having sex with their crushes? And is it obvious to them they're experiencing this attraction?

2) Similarly, do most straight teen girls naturally have a desire to kiss boys they like? Or does it just kind of happen at the time or...?

3) I know sex drive and sexual attraction are different things, so I was wondering if it's normal for them both to start at the same time during puberty? Or like, could someone develop a sex drive first and then have the attraction to people kick in later? Personally I have a libido but as soon as I think about somebody else in that context it's gross

4) When people say they find someone "hot" (e.g. a celebrity), do they generally mean they find them sexually attractive, or is it purely aesthetic?

(And I'm not even going to ask if anyone can explain what sexual attraction feels like because I know loads of people have asked before, and it pretty much seems to be a lost cause on here anyway.)

Any answers to these questions, or any other advice or comments regarding anything I've said would be much appreciated. I'm really sorry if I asked the same questions as other people already have in the forums, but stuff is hard to find and a lot of the time it's not as useful because the answers wouldn't be given to my specific context. Anyway, I'm sorry.

Thank you so much if you've taken the time to read this ^_^

[andreas1033]

I will answer your last question.

Most people fancy celebrities, and this is the basis for there obsession with celebrity culture. Hollywood totally exploits this, and it proves that most people do react to others looks and bodies, whether they admit it or not.

Being a male asexual i cannot answer your other questions, but you can be sure most people are sexually active, and react to people looks or bodies, as celebrity culture shows this, and its how tv adverts work.

Being asexual, you do not react the same way to others, that most people do, and the majority will not understand this, or want to admit it.

[Galactic Turtle]

I can't really say what's normal because I don't really talk to people about sexual things, but I can say what I think?

1) Is it normal for straight teens, particularly girls, to feel sexual attraction/desire towards the person they're crushing on romantically? Like is it naturally there as part of the package, or does it come later? Do people think about having sex with their crushes? And is it obvious to them they're experiencing this attraction?

I'm 22 years old and I've never had a crush on anyone however many of my friends often look at people and plainly say "there's this guy in my econ lecture. I don't know how, yet, but I'm definitely going to fuck him by the end of the semester." I also had a habit of just assuming everyone around me was a virgin but about a year ago when talking about high school things, it seems like a good amount of people around me had been sexually active since 9th or 10th grade, a time when relationships rarely lasted more than four or five months. Because sex isn't really talked about openly, putting together the knowledge that many people were sexually active when I assumed they weren't, I assume that having a crush on someone does mean that you're usually sexually attracted to them. How long they take to actually have sex once they get together, however, depends on the person. Some people like to have sex on the first date and other people wait until they're comfortable enough which could take months.

2) Similarly, do most straight teen girls naturally have a desire to kiss boys they like? Or does it just kind of happen at the time or...?

I think kissing is definitely on the table from the very beginning. One of my friends sees kissing as not a big deal at all. She kisses people just because she thinks they're attractive. Because of this, she's making out with someone new almost every time she goes out to a club. On the whole, I think most people think about kissing because they don't think it's a big deal. (then again, I am in college. It might be different for high school students)

3) I know sex drive and sexual attraction are different things, so I was wondering if it's normal for them both to start at the same time during puberty? Or like, could someone develop a sex drive first and then have the attraction to people kick in later? Personally I have a libido but as soon as I think about somebody else in that context it's gross

I never really thought about it? Maybe? During those hormonal years I never wanted to have sex with anybody and I never had any desire to sexually stimulate myself. Then again, I didn't even know girls could masturbate. Now that I do, I still feel no desire to participate in self-pleasure. I don't really talk about sex with my friends but as far as I know, most of them think something along the lines of "I wouldn't mind having sex with him eventually if I were given the chance." So while it might not exactly be like "OMG I NEED THE D RIGHT THIS INSTANT," the intent and the expectation is there should they become acquainted and especially if they get into a relationship. My friend lost her virginity to her current boyfriend and while she had wanted to have sex with him for a long time, she had to think about it and talk to him about it for a few weeks (since he was a virgin too) before they actually got around to do it. So the desire to and expectation was there at least from the point where they both became comfortable with each other. They had sex after four months of dating.

4) When people say they find someone "hot" (e.g. a celebrity), do they generally mean they find them sexually attractive, or is it purely aesthetic?

Again... I don't know? I think it's aesthetic since people throw that word around pretty casually. I'm a huge K-pop fan so I see celebrities and say they're hot all the time! But I don't have a desire to have sex with and I don't think about them in sexual situations. Whenever K-pop idols get in the habit of ripping off their shirts and doing suggestive dance moves, I find it awkward while many other K-pop fans go absolutely crazy. Also, many K-pop fans fetishize Asian men so when they see K-pop idols, I do think they experience sexual attraction.

[Rainbow~Sprinkles]

I've also asked myself those questions and am curious to hear the answers. Hopefully more sexuals can jump on here and clear all this up!

[Starlit Sky]

1) Yes, it is. A study (I'll try to find it if you want me to) said that the average person, male or female, first experiences sexual attraction by the age of ten years old, give or take about two years. There are some instances where a sexual might only want to have sex with a person and not want to be involved romantically, but in almost all cases, if they like someone romantically, they want to have sex with them.

And is it obvious? I don't know if obvious is the right word, because to them it's natural. They don't sense that they're missing something like we do.

2) Yes, most sexuals like kissing. (There are some asexuals who like kissing as well, by the way. :) )

3) Yes, it's definitely possible for attraction to kick in later, but if it doesn't kick in around at least the mid-teens I'd probably say that that person is somewhere around the asexual spectrum. Sex drive . . . I think of that as more of the feelings bit, whereas sexual attraction is the people bit. That's a horrible way of trying to explain it . . . maybe you get it anyway.

Honestly, though, sex drive and sexual attraction almost always kick in at the same time, so I doubt you've got anything to worry about.

4) It's dependent on the person. Honestly, sexuals don't really think of "sexual vs. aesthetic attractions"--they have no reason to. Most of them seem to mean it as a mixture of both, but when a heterosexual female tells her other female friend that she's looking hot, that's aesthetic attraction.

*

Just so ya know, there are still asexuals who define themselves as straight, just as there are asexuals who define themselves as gay and lesbian. Personally I view "straight" as more of a "heterosexual-heteromantic only" kinda thing, but that's just me. ^_^

There are apparently some asexuals who had no idea that they were the "strange ones" until they actually heard about asexuality. It came as a surprise to them. Your friend . . . I don't know her, but from what you've given us (and only from what you've given us), I do wonder if she is somewhere on the spectrum. Perhaps gray-sexual. :)

[an18059]

Thanks everyone for your replies! :) It's really helpful to have different points of view on this stuff.

I can't really say what's normal because I don't really talk to people about sexual things, but I can say what I think?

1) Is it normal for straight teens, particularly girls, to feel sexual attraction/desire towards the person they're crushing on romantically? Like is it naturally there as part of the package, or does it come later? Do people think about having sex with their crushes? And is it obvious to them they're experiencing this attraction?

I'm 22 years old and I've never had a crush on anyone however many of my friends often look at people and plainly say "there's this guy in my econ lecture. I don't know how, yet, but I'm definitely going to fuck him by the end of the semester." I also had a habit of just assuming everyone around me was a virgin but about a year ago when talking about high school things, it seems like a good amount of people around me had been sexually active since 9th or 10th grade, a time when relationships rarely lasted more than four or five months. Because sex isn't really talked about openly, putting together the knowledge that many people were sexually active when I assumed they weren't, I assume that having a crush on someone does mean that you're usually sexually attracted to them. How long they take to actually have sex once they get together, however, depends on the person. Some people like to have sex on the first date and other people wait until they're comfortable enough which could take months.

2) Similarly, do most straight teen girls naturally have a desire to kiss boys they like? Or does it just kind of happen at the time or...?

I think kissing is definitely on the table from the very beginning. One of my friends sees kissing as not a big deal at all. She kisses people just because she thinks they're attractive. Because of this, she's making out with someone new almost every time she goes out to a club. On the whole, I think most people think about kissing because they don't think it's a big deal. (then again, I am in college. It might be different for high school students)

3) I know sex drive and sexual attraction are different things, so I was wondering if it's normal for them both to start at the same time during puberty? Or like, could someone develop a sex drive first and then have the attraction to people kick in later? Personally I have a libido but as soon as I think about somebody else in that context it's gross

I never really thought about it? Maybe? During those hormonal years I never wanted to have sex with anybody and I never had any desire to sexually stimulate myself. Then again, I didn't even know girls could masturbate. Now that I do, I still feel no desire to participate in self-pleasure. I don't really talk about sex with my friends but as far as I know, most of them think something along the lines of "I wouldn't mind having sex with him eventually if I were given the chance." So while it might not exactly be like "OMG I NEED THE D RIGHT THIS INSTANT," the intent and the expectation is there should they become acquainted and especially if they get into a relationship. My friend lost her virginity to her current boyfriend and while she had wanted to have sex with him for a long time, she had to think about it and talk to him about it for a few weeks (since he was a virgin too) before they actually got around to do it. So the desire to and expectation was there at least from the point where they both became comfortable with each other. They had sex after four months of dating.

Thanks, a lot of that was really helpful. Kissing kind of is a big deal at the moment, like if one of our friends said they kissed someone, as happened quite recently actually, everyone would most likely go crazy and want to hear all about it and everything. Then again that might just be cause we're the geeky kids in school so it rarely happens... Anyway, whether it's a big deal or not, I just have no desire to do it. It seems pointless and I imagine it would probably feel icky and very awkward

1) Yes, it is. A study (I'll try to find it if you want me to) said that the average person, male or female, first experiences sexual attraction by the age of ten years old, give or take about two years. There are some instances where a sexual might only want to have sex with a person and not want to be involved romantically, but in almost all cases, if they like someone romantically, they want to have sex with them.

And is it obvious? I don't know if obvious is the right word, because to them it's natural. They don't sense that they're missing something like we do.

2) Yes, most sexuals like kissing. (There are some asexuals who like kissing as well, by the way. :) )

3) Yes, it's definitely possible for attraction to kick in later, but if it doesn't kick in around at least the mid-teens I'd probably say that that person is somewhere around the asexual spectrum. Sex drive . . . I think of that as more of the feelings bit, whereas sexual attraction is the people bit. That's a horrible way of trying to explain it . . . maybe you get it anyway.

Honestly, though, sex drive and sexual attraction almost always kick in at the same time, so I doubt you've got anything to worry about.

4) It's dependent on the person. Honestly, sexuals don't really think of "sexual vs. aesthetic attractions"--they have no reason to. Most of them seem to mean it as a mixture of both, but when a heterosexual female tells her other female friend that she's looking hot, that's aesthetic attraction.

*

Just so ya know, there are still asexuals who define themselves as straight, just as there are asexuals who define themselves as gay and lesbian. Personally I view "straight" as more of a "heterosexual-heteromantic only" kinda thing, but that's just me. ^_^

There are apparently some asexuals who had no idea that they were the "strange ones" until they actually heard about asexuality. It came as a surprise to them. Your friend . . . I don't know her, but from what you've given us (and only from what you've given us), I do wonder if she is somewhere on the spectrum. Perhaps gray-sexual. :)

I think I worded things pretty badly. I guess what I meant asking if it was obvious is like, can they tell that they would want to have sex with the person, and if you asked them would they easily be able to tell to say that they felt sexually attracted to people. I know they're unlikely to be aware of or distinguish between different types of attraction they felt towards someone they liked, so yeah I guess it is a tricky question.

I know that quite a lot of asexuals like kissing too, it's just something I'm personally not interested in at all. And I'm also aware some asexuals would identify as straight, but I definitely wouldn't want to because like you said it implies sexual attraction to the opposite sex. Being ace I'd say I'm part of LGBT+ and I don't feel like that could go with calling myself straight.

With the "hot" thing, I mainly meant say if my female heterosexual friends were going on about how hot a guy from a TV show or something was.

The thing you said about not feeling like we're the "strange ones" before finding out about asexuality, I think I was sort of like that before I did, cause I wondered for a bit if I might be gay or bi but I knew I liked boys so for a while I thought that was the end of that. There was no point before reading up about asexuality that I noticed I felt no sexual feelings towards anyone whatsoever, which is kind of weird looking back.

A lot of the stuff my friend says to me makes me think she could be on the spectrum, but I can't exactly tell her that unless she asks me about it. I can't really know what she's feeling. It just sometimes makes me feel less valid in identifying as ace when I talk about something I think is directly linked to it, and she sort of dismisses it in a way by saying she feels the same, like I'm wrong in thinking only I feel that way. And what would the chances be anyway, given that only 1% of people are asexual, that both me and my best friend would be?