bard of aven Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 So, in the seven or so months I have been hanging out here, several times in various fora I have seen someone say something about choosing to be asexual, and someone else who has been here longer than that person will gently, politely issue a correction, saying something like orientations are not chosen, it is the way we are, if you choose to not have sex, it is not the same thing as being asexual. And I agree with that. But not everyone agrees that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice. There is some interesting reading amtter at http://www.queerbychoice.com boa Link to post Share on other sites
Moose-Alini Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 People who believe they only chose to start acting upon same-sex attraction do not usually consider themselves queer by choice. Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction. Wha? Im not really understanding this. They choose to be queer, because they have queer attractions? Making it not a chaice...... *confused* Link to post Share on other sites
Eta Carinae Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 People who believe they only chose to start acting upon same-sex attraction do not usually consider themselves queer by choice. Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction. Wha? Im not really understanding this. They choose to be queer, because they have queer attractions? Making it not a chaice...... *confused* No. "Those of us who do consider ourselves queer by choice usually mean that we chose to start feeling same-sex attraction." They mean that they choose to start feeling queer attractions. Read the thing again. I don't know enough about sexual orientation to comment on whether or not these people are truly making themselves queer through force of will, or simply choosing to acknowledge latent non-straight aspects of their orientation. If I had a gun to my head, I'd guess that the former is possible, but I can't say that with any reasonable certainty. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose-Alini Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Ehh, I dont think you can chose who are attracted to. Ya never know though. Link to post Share on other sites
orderinchaos Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Moose: I don't either. Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 This all gets loopy for me. Here's why: Say sexual orientation is a choice: why would you make it? I mean, so you just wake up one day and decide that straight isn't working anymore and it's time to move on? Anyone who chooses to be queer has probably got a problem with the confines or normative heterosexuality, in choosing to be queer xe chooses to leave those confines. Say it's not: You wake up one day and realize you are and forever have been gay. What's your first thought? Not that you want to swath yourself in rainbows and play women's rugby, no, the first thing you want to do is correct the overarching assumption that you are straight. What you need to do is get the hell out of the confines of normative heterosexuality, because they don't work for you. You'll worry about what gay subculture you wind up in later. To sum up: people are queer initially because they have a problem with people assuming that they are straight. Do they *choose* to have that problem? What does it matter? They want Out. The entire debate over choice seems to be founded in the idea that if someone chooses to no longer be straight they could somehow be convinced to return to the fold. Since that's a batty idea either way, why does it matter? Link to post Share on other sites
Neats Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I am not a religious person so this is more of a cliche statement than prayer but....AMEN Avenguy!! Neats Link to post Share on other sites
Eta Carinae Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Since that's a batty idea either way, why does it matter? Because "where does sexual orientation come from" is an interesting question? Because some people don't like what they see as inaccuracies about themselves being spread around? Link to post Share on other sites
emeraldimp Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 For me, my "choice" was not to be straight or gay, but rather to accept that I was gay, come to terms with myself, and move onward to lead a happy, meaningful and productive life. I could suppress my sexuality... but it would only damage me further. So me, I chose (and choose) to be healthy and happy and to identify as gay (er, well actually just queer now but who's counting?). Link to post Share on other sites
Nobody Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Orientations are not chosen. If I could have chosen my sexual orientation, I'd be hetero. I tried to fit into that mold and I couldn't do it. At least now I'm not wasting my time and energy. I'm asexual and fine with myself the way I am. Link to post Share on other sites
emeraldimp Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Orientations are not chosen. If I could have chosen my sexual orientation, I'd be hetero. I tried to fit into that mold and I couldn't do it. At least now I'm not wasting my time and energy. I'm asexual and fine with myself the way I am. Hmm, yes I suppose orientation isn't chosen, but after reading much of the Queer by Choice website I find that I agree--and have agreed for quite som time--with their ideas that humans have a natural spectrum of sexuality and that it can--and does--change. In one of my essays I mention an iddealized world where it's not a big deal that two people of the same gender are dating, but I don't think that I sufficiently expressed that experimentation--that is, learning what best pleases you--should be accepted and cherished as a part of natural human behavior. So, it could be that orientation is not the best word to describe the situation. As for the spectrum, I can attest to this myself. Mostly I seem to point very, very strongly towards being attracted to other men. But, occasionally I even am attracted to women. And no one is trying to say that you shouldn't be asexual and happy, which is exactly part of the point. Whether or not you chose to be queer shouldn't matter, and you shouldn't be denied your right to choose to live the way you please (which is a choice, because as you said, you tried to fit in, but felt that you were wasting your time. But you could've chose to continue to waste your time and energy in that manner.). Erm, okay well I think that's long and incoherent enough for now. Link to post Share on other sites
Nobody Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 No prob, Emeraldimp. Experimentation just didn't work out for me. I did try, though. I was repulsed. Fortunately, it wasn't more than some guy pawing me above the waist and French kissing. EWWWWWWWW!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
anythingtestdead Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 ... Link to post Share on other sites
Thief Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 The founder of the queerbychoice site is self described bisexual, so in her case, being queer is very much a choice. She wouldn't be the first bisexual woman I've known who has "chosen" to live queer. HOWEVER, it also depends on how you define "choice", because the site's founder does explain her choice in a particular way. She says she had "no choice" about seeing or recognizing her bisexuality. "And once it opened up, I could not in good conscience have passed it by. But I was aware of making a choice" of exploring it or acting on it. And she describes her choice as a personal irrevocable moment that occured at 15. After reading the site I get the impression that because she feels her sexuality involves choice for her - as bisexuality usually does - then that implies that everone's sexuality ought to involve the same choice(s). But assuming your own experience to be universally applicable is a very human error. Pete Link to post Share on other sites
cronos Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 This all reminds me of an editorial I read on PlanetOut a number of months ago. To paraphrase, he said that to be attracted to members of the same sex is not a choice. Being gay (as in out, being part of the "scene", etc.) is. Just throwing that out there. Link to post Share on other sites
orderinchaos Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 This cuts into the whole scene vs nonscene thing :) A lot of gay people live very "str8" lives but are quite comfortable with the fact that they prefer the same gender - myself included. Just like most heterosexuals probably don't go to str8 nightclubs and act all str8 - it's a sizeable minority. Link to post Share on other sites
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