The New Aromantic Thread (v.1.5)

[DATA EXPUNGED]

I got the booty and the boobies but not the face, so guys don't follow me around much and I never dated anyone. I thought I didn't have crushes and only wanted friends because I was too ugly, or too busy for it. That's what I believed for a long while, trying to convince myself I had a crush on a guy in gym class, then on a female teacher and a cheerleader.

I figured out I was aromantic a couple weeks ago. As it turns out, the urge I had for intimacy was actually of the 'LET ME PAT YOUR SHOULDER AND BAKE YOU COOKIES, JERKFACE' variety. Thank gods!!! I got enough TV shows relationships to cry about.

Edit: that post was cheesy as hell. I changed it. take that cake and eat it

[Wokgran X]

Musette, sorry if I came across harsh there. You didn't word it wrong. I have what has been called a "snarky, jerky or sassy" sense of humor. We all have our failings, a rude sense of humor is one of mine.

Whoops, I guess I missed the context, since tone can be misinterpreted so easily in text. I'm usually one to appreciate a snarky sense of humor truth be told (I often have to stop myself because I often find myself wanting to make jokes for the sake of a joke, but I risk coming off like I made an accidental stab at someone, and I can only do that with friends who have known me well enough). Go figure that when the humor is turned around on me, it end up going over my head :lol:

I was going to leave this topic alone, but really, i like those "acid-humor" friendships, where i can land some factual jokes about the past. Perhaps by watching/listening/reading so much japanese stuff i developed some sort of japanese-type humor. You know, like those "manzai" acts, where you have the "idiot (boke) and the guy who hits/interrupts the stupid (Tsukkomi)", it's golden, i can laugh pretty hard watching those skits, specially touhou m-1, because it adds to the fact that i also like touhou. But really, i would like to have such friendship where i can tell things like:

Friend: "Oh, I'm specially good at math, you know!"

Me: "Yeah, like that time that you said that 1/3 is bigger than 1/2" [actually happened to a friend of mine, but he didn't like this remark that much]

*laughs*

(ideal continuation, if the person was good with manzai-style jokes)

**Friend: "Fractions doesn't count"

Me: "Sure, i guess you also can't handle negative numbers then? How the hell did you get your mechanical engineer degree?! All your scores were natural (whole) numbers?!"

"If a teacher say something like "Hey, you scored 6,4" you suddenly get nervous not knowing if that's higher or lower than the passing score (6,0) ?!"

**Friend: "What do i do, would i have to take the additional exam?!"

Me: "Shut up! Go back to elementary school already!!"

And so on... xDD

(I guess most people need to drink to get into this stage of "funnyness", which is sad... I can't stand alcohol/bars/drunk people)

And about being quiet in general events, yeah, i do that almost always. To be honest is a little worse than just being quiet, since i go with my headphones or earplugs, and keep listening to music during those events. People don't bother me that much with questions since they usually want to talk about romance and ask about my life... but it's not like i have anything really special to tell them, so the conversation ends pretty quickly. If the person is an anime fan, or something, then i can keep talking for a while. Also if the person wants to discuss something in a critical manner, concepts and philosophy, i will gladly accept the conversation (most of the times).

Usually it's the classical: "So, what about your dates/girlfriends?" ---"Focusing on college" --"Oooh... that's honorable, you really should do that" *end of conversation*

[words are futile devices]

Woah! I felt this really unexpected sensation at work yesterday.

I'm a technician at an optometry office, so I work closely with the doctor on a daily basis, doing all the patient pre-testing and communicating their needs with him, etc. It's been nine months since I started there, and by this point we've established a good, strong doctor-tech relationship. I might even go so far as to say we're friends. He occasionally probes me about my lack of interest in dating (which has only come up because he asks me all the time if I'm dating anybody, or if I've got a "hot date" this weekend, and so on). But I don't mind it, really. I don't think I have any sort of squishy feelings for him... I see him as more of a dorky older brother than anything else (dorky as in going around talking in Yoda-voice and prank-texting me, to give some examples). I have a lot of friendly affection for him, and want to be the most helpful and hard-working technician I can be, to make his life easier.

I will admit, from the day we met I've found him aesthetically attractive. He has pretty blue eyes and a lovely, genuine smile that sort of illuminates his whole face. And he always looks good in his khakis and plaid button-downs. Anyway, yesterday our staff had some pictures taken for a local newspaper, so he dressed a little nicer than usual. Black pants, long-sleeve white button-down, black tie. At the end of the day, right before leaving, I rounded a corner and saw him standing across the room, now wearing his sport coat on top of everything else. And my heart lurched. Then it started pounding really heavily, and I could feel my face flushing. A couple of my coworkers were complimenting him on how nice he looked, and I just sort of nodded in agreement, shocked at how my body had so suddenly reacted to the sight of him. I can't explain what came over me! The pounding in my chest only lasted about 10 seconds, and then I was fine. But all I could think when I got in my car was Dang, he looks GOOD in a suit. Which is just so weird because usually I couldn't care less what kind of clothes people are wearing. Today all was back to normal. He wore his khakis and plaid, we joked around like usual, I'm still so totally aro-ace.

Every once in a while pictures of, like, a celebrity crush will give me butterflies, but it rarely happens in real life, so I don't know what to think when it does. Have any of you ever had an abrupt physical reaction to an aesthetically attractive person? Did it totally catch you off-guard/freak you out a little bit?

[Maelstrom_17]

Woah! I felt this really unexpected sensation at work yesterday.

I'm a technician at an optometry office, so I work closely with the doctor on a daily basis, doing all the patient pre-testing and communicating their needs with him, etc. It's been nine months since I started there, and by this point we've established a good, strong doctor-tech relationship. I might even go so far as to say we're friends. He occasionally probes me about my lack of interest in dating (which has only come up because he asks me all the time if I'm dating anybody, or if I've got a "hot date" this weekend, and so on). But I don't mind it, really. I don't think I have any sort of squishy feelings for him... I see him as more of a dorky older brother than anything else (dorky as in going around talking in Yoda-voice and prank-texting me, to give some examples). I have a lot of friendly affection for him, and want to be the most helpful and hard-working technician I can be, to make his life easier.

I will admit, from the day we met I've found him aesthetically attractive. He has pretty blue eyes and a lovely, genuine smile that sort of illuminates his whole face. And he always looks good in his khakis and plaid button-downs. Anyway, yesterday our staff had some pictures taken for a local newspaper, so he dressed a little nicer than usual. Black pants, long-sleeve white button-down, black tie. At the end of the day, right before leaving, I rounded a corner and saw him standing across the room, now wearing his sport coat on top of everything else. And my heart lurched. Then it started pounding really heavily, and I could feel my face flushing. A couple of my coworkers were complimenting him on how nice he looked, and I just sort of nodded in agreement, shocked at how my body had so suddenly reacted to the sight of him. I can't explain what came over me! The pounding in my chest only lasted about 10 seconds, and then I was fine. But all I could think when I got in my car was Dang, he looks GOOD in a suit. Which is just so weird because usually I couldn't care less what kind of clothes people are wearing. Today all was back to normal. He wore his khakis and plaid, we joked around like usual, I'm still so totally aro-ace.

Every once in a while pictures of, like, a celebrity crush will give me butterflies, but it rarely happens in real life, so I don't know what to think when it does. Have any of you ever had an abrupt physical reaction to an aesthetically attractive person? Did it totally catch you off-guard/freak you out a little bit?

Only you can determine whether you are actually aromantic or not. But I guess since you didn't have a desire to be with the person, I think you're all right. (I think) I'm not particularly great at reading between the lines unless I have a plethora of information.

[Ziggy_G]

Hey guys I haven't been looking much on the aromantic side of things. Mostly cos I worked out I was aromantic before I worked out I was asexual, but just didn't have a word for it. The aromantic bit was just like, "yeh cool, now I have a word"-move on with life. The asexual bit was like "what! *glass shatters* I never.realised. the world. did. think.like.me!" so that kinda fascinated me more. But then again. there is only so much "I want a partner" talk i can handle from any side of sexuality so thank you guys for being here.. :)

[Dirge]

Every once in a while pictures of, like, a celebrity crush will give me butterflies, but it rarely happens in real life, so I don't know what to think when it does. Have any of you ever had an abrupt physical reaction to an aesthetically attractive person? Did it totally catch you off-guard/freak you out a little bit?

It's extremely rare for me, but yes. It's not lasting, it's not sensible, it feels completely divorced from my mind and identity. Like a hyperactive something that runs screaming through my head for a space of seconds and then vanishes entirely, leaving me to think 'what was THAT about?'

[Lambda Corvus]

You know what everyone? This thread has surpassed the three-hundred post mark (actually, the 256 post mark, but who cares). Thanks to you all for continuing to contribute towards its growth and awesomeness.

*Thread pinned*

[killerbee13]

Oh, come on! What's so special about this 12C₁₆ number that everyone calls "round"? That's one of the ugliest numbers I've seen. 100₁₆ is a much better one.

(For those who are not programmers: 12C₁₆ is 300₁₀, and 100₁₆ is 256₁₀. The subscript represents numerical base)

[elexacarrero]

So I am actually truly worried that I may be alone forever. I mean, I am an aromantic asexual. It's not that I dislike other people, but I do not like to date. I realized after my last boyfriend that I do not know how dating even works. What's the point? It's the exact same except they have permission to kiss me. That it the only difference, but the boys think that they still need to be chivalrous, even though I do the same thing back. I even feel offended when men are showing chivalry when I try to show it first. I'm not trying to be romantic or looking down on anyone, I am trying to be nice. That's it. I always regarded myself as the 'man' in any relationship, although most of my partners were male. I wanted to do all of the cliches that men are supposed to do for women.

Now I know that I do not want the kind of relationships I described above. I just want a friend to hang out with and who will see me as an equal. But I am worried. I have friends like that already. I have friends who want to date me, wonderful women who want to be my life partner, but they want sex out of the relationship, and they know that will never happen with me. I do not always want to be the 'third wheel' in a relationship, but I don't know how to get around it. Everyone else I know goes in and out of relationships like it's a fashion, and I am sitting here with no one individual who I can intimately talk to and know that they are dedicated to me and not be afraid that they will leave me one day to find a romantic love.

I am so terrified of this. I almost wish I was a romantic so it would be easy for me, and it wouldn't be a concern, but I can't force myself to be something I am not.

Anyone have any advice for me?

[Ziggy_G]

I've been feeling kinda simularly lately, like I might be alone forever. I'm aromantic, I don't want whatever it is that this 'relationship' thing people keep inflicting on me is, its horrible, but friendships are so fleeting and uncommitted and they overall are attempting to leave you so that they can find a partner. Your just like a placeholder until then. I just want people who i can be really emotionally close with, who I can support and spoil and be appreciated, not someone who I'm contractually obliged to fulfil there needs, or I'm expected to do xyz with, but also not someone who isn't invested in the friendship as a priority. Not even just one person either, I want at least one person who I can feel close to. Because without real closeness and emotional intimacy with people, I feel disconnected from humanity, without place. Give me people to be loyal too, give me a place. Let me be one of those knights in fantasy stories with a king to serve and people to protect, or one of those lame kids tv shows with a group of really close friends going through their crazy adventures together. Just not this. Not where it feels like without a partner I'm just gonna float away from humanity, like a balloon in the sky.

[elexacarrero]

I've been feeling kinda simularly lately, like I might be alone forever. I'm aromantic, I don't want whatever it is that this 'relationship' thing people keep inflicting on me is, its horrible, but friendships are so fleeting and uncommitted and they overall are attempting to leave you so that they can find a partner. Your just like a placeholder until then. I just want people who i can be really emotionally close with, who I can support and spoil and be appreciated, not someone who I'm contractually obliged to fulfil there needs, or I'm expected to do xyz with, but also not someone who isn't invested in the friendship as a priority. Not even just one person either, I want at least one person who I can feel close to. Because without real closeness and emotional intimacy with people, I feel disconnected from humanity, without place. Give me people to be loyal too, give me a place. Let me be one of those knights in fantasy stories with a king to serve and people to protect, or one of those lame kids tv shows with a group of really close friends going through their crazy adventures together. Just not this. Not where it feels like without a partner I'm just gonna float away from humanity, like a balloon in the sky.

Wow, I completely understand. Especially the "knight in shining armor" thing. I've always been one of the main backbones for my friends, holding them up and keeping them together. I would do anything for my friends, lay down my life if need be, and I never felt that when dating. I was thinking that maybe one person would be enough to fill that need, but, when I read your post, I realized that maybe I do just need a "kingdom", per say. I need a close group of friends to protect, but will not feel like it is a priority to stay with me when they want a partner. I already have two friends like this, and they are both dating each other, and I am moving in with them, but I am still afraid of losing them one day when they finally think their wacky asexual friend is no longer suited to live in the room upstairs when they want a family. I'm still relatively young, 21, so it's not going happen soon, but the impending doom is still frustrating. I just want friends to love and protect and go on cray adventures with and invite to go places and eat ice cream on a beach at sunset while laughing about all of the stupid things we did that day. I don't need a partner, just love.

[Kellam]

I've been feeling kinda simularly lately, like I might be alone forever. I'm aromantic, I don't want whatever it is that this 'relationship' thing people keep inflicting on me is, its horrible, but friendships are so fleeting and uncommitted and they overall are attempting to leave you so that they can find a partner. Your just like a placeholder until then. I just want people who i can be really emotionally close with, who I can support and spoil and be appreciated, not someone who I'm contractually obliged to fulfil there needs, or I'm expected to do xyz with, but also not someone who isn't invested in the friendship as a priority. Not even just one person either, I want at least one person who I can feel close to. Because without real closeness and emotional intimacy with people, I feel disconnected from humanity, without place. Give me people to be loyal too, give me a place. Let me be one of those knights in fantasy stories with a king to serve and people to protect, or one of those lame kids tv shows with a group of really close friends going through their crazy adventures together. Just not this. Not where it feels like without a partner I'm just gonna float away from humanity, like a balloon in the sky.

Wow, I completely understand. Especially the "knight in shining armor" thing. I've always been one of the main backbones for my friends, holding them up and keeping them together. I would do anything for my friends, lay down my life if need be, and I never felt that when dating. I was thinking that maybe one person would be enough to fill that need, but, when I read your post, I realized that maybe I do just need a "kingdom", per say. I need a close group of friends to protect, but will not feel like it is a priority to stay with me when they want a partner. I already have two friends like this, and they are both dating each other, and I am moving in with them, but I am still afraid of losing them one day when they finally think their wacky asexual friend is no longer suited to live in the room upstairs when they want a family. I'm still relatively young, 21, so it's not going happen soon, but the impending doom is still frustrating. I just want friends to love and protect and go on cray adventures with and invite to go places and eat ice cream on a beach at sunset while laughing about all of the stupid things we did that day. I don't need a partner, just love.

My nick name should be "helping hands", my boss has even said that I'd do well in a Zen monastery (he's Japanese) because of my willingness to do whatever is necessary, whatever help is needed. I always seem to be lending a hand, whether its financial, social or actual labor. Two of my best friends are disabled and know that they can call on me whenever. And like elexacarrero said about chivalry, I do much the same, out of plain old niceness. I don't know how many times I've been holding a door open for a female acquaintance and had them say something like "you're an old fashioned gentleman". Its probably equalled by the number of male acquaintances who have shot me angry confused looks when I was holding a door for them. I hold doors for any and everyone. I'm very lucky to have the friends that I do, folks who will let me confide in them but even when my time with them has ended I feel certain that I'll make more friends. I'm not super social but when I connect with folks it isn't too long until they're telling me all their problems. That usually means it is cool for me to share back. I am also very lucky to have my younger brother whom I'm very close with. I should always be able to confide in him and I will probably die before him so he's someone I can rely on for life. Two of my best friends are already a couple and I have lived with them on and off for years. Other friends are single and I hope they find the intimate relationships they're looking for. When that time comes, if they stop needing anything from me, so be it. I'm just glad of the chance to get to know them. I'll probably be running off to pursue some ridiculous whim anyway! Life seems to be an endless string of friendships, as long as one stays part of the world one need never be alone.

[words are futile devices]

Only you can determine whether you are actually aromantic or not. But I guess since you didn't have a desire to be with the person, I think you're all right. (I think) I'm not particularly great at reading between the lines unless I have a plethora of information.

Thanks for responding! I feel certain of my aromanticism, so this little occurrence didn't make me question it. My thing is that people become more and more aesthetically pleasing to me the longer I know them; after months/years of memorizing facial expressions, body language, the way their lips move when they speak... it all at some point becomes familiar and endearing and comfortable. I think I've reached that point with my doctor. He's a silly, nerdy, adorable guy, and I find both his personality and his appearance attractive. Seeing him extra well-dressed gave me a quick surge of adrenaline, but my thoughts went no deeper than Wow that suit looks nice on him. Imagining him asking me on a date, or spending time with him outside of work, or anything like that, immediately puts my mind in mild panic mode. :o

It's extremely rare for me, but yes. It's not lasting, it's not sensible, it feels completely divorced from my mind and identity. Like a hyperactive something that runs screaming through my head for a space of seconds and then vanishes entirely, leaving me to think 'what was THAT about?'

Yes! That's a great way of describing it.

[Wokgran X]

Only you can determine whether you are actually aromantic or not. But I guess since you didn't have a desire to be with the person, I think you're all right. (I think) I'm not particularly great at reading between the lines unless I have a plethora of information.

Thanks for responding! I feel certain of my aromanticism, so this little occurrence didn't make me question it. My thing is that people become more and more aesthetically pleasing to me the longer I know them; after months/years of memorizing facial expressions, body language, the way their lips move when they speak... it all at some point becomes familiar and endearing and comfortable. I think I've reached that point with my doctor. He's a silly, nerdy, adorable guy, and I find both his personality and his appearance attractive. Seeing him extra well-dressed gave me a quick surge of adrenaline, but my thoughts went no deeper than Wow that suit looks nice on him. Imagining him asking me on a date, or spending time with him outside of work, or anything like that, immediately puts my mind in mild panic mode. :o

It's extremely rare for me, but yes. It's not lasting, it's not sensible, it feels completely divorced from my mind and identity. Like a hyperactive something that runs screaming through my head for a space of seconds and then vanishes entirely, leaving me to think 'what was THAT about?'

Yes! That's a great way of describing it.

Interesting enough, i felt something similar with some really aesthetic pleasing girls, but indeed, it was something that only lasted a very limited amount of time. And if anything, they are reduced over time. I can build some sort of special friendship with those people, if i think it's proper to do it (usually i don't), giving out more than receiving, since i kinda feel good just to be able to look at them, you know, kinda like a very nice looking car or painting, or anything, the funny thing is that i still don't want anything romantic or too close with them. You may be more pleased/calm just to be around them, but that is as far as it goes for me. And it decreases over time, since not only beauty is time-related (people grow old and start to "decade" in terms of aesthetics) but also is some sort of particular state, someone might be beauty in that particular moment, with that particular set of clothing and make-up, but people are, in my opinion, not beauty "in an intrinsic way", since it's very easy to gain/loose that good-looking quality. [[Other approach is to say that, to me, beauty is a product of what people do to themselves and not a quality of what people "are"]

The "attraction" to the "good-willed person" aspect is totally different, null for me at least, and it's highly debatable too.

On an important side note, i noticed that i'm more prone to feel this nuances/shocks of aesthetic attraction when i'm stressed. It might be related to the natural release of oxytocin (the cuddle hormone) during stress, it makes sense to me at least. Dunno if it's the case for others aro/aces. I described a little of it in my first post around here.

(If anyone is interested: www.asexuality.org/en/topic/99851-hi-there-want-to-share-my-long-and-confusing-history/?view=findpost&p=1060735131)

As a silly but true example, the one girl i felt this more intense feeling of aesthetic attraction eventually cut her hair short. And that alone was more than enough to throw the attraction off to me. Also i eventually regained my calm-self and everything went normal again.

[Maelstrom_17]

Only you can determine whether you are actually aromantic or not. But I guess since you didn't have a desire to be with the person, I think you're all right. (I think) I'm not particularly great at reading between the lines unless I have a plethora of information.

Thanks for responding! I feel certain of my aromanticism, so this little occurrence didn't make me question it. My thing is that people become more and more aesthetically pleasing to me the longer I know them; after months/years of memorizing facial expressions, body language, the way their lips move when they speak... it all at some point becomes familiar and endearing and comfortable. I think I've reached that point with my doctor. He's a silly, nerdy, adorable guy, and I find both his personality and his appearance attractive. Seeing him extra well-dressed gave me a quick surge of adrenaline, but my thoughts went no deeper than Wow that suit looks nice on him. Imagining him asking me on a date, or spending time with him outside of work, or anything like that, immediately puts my mind in mild panic mode. :o

It's extremely rare for me, but yes. It's not lasting, it's not sensible, it feels completely divorced from my mind and identity. Like a hyperactive something that runs screaming through my head for a space of seconds and then vanishes entirely, leaving me to think 'what was THAT about?'

Yes! That's a great way of describing it.

Interesting enough, i felt something similar with some really aesthetic pleasing girls, but indeed, it was something that only lasted a very limited amount of time. And if anything, they are reduced over time. I can build some sort of special friendship with those people, if i think it's proper to do it (usually i don't), giving out more than receiving, since i kinda feel good just to be able to look at them, you know, kinda like a very nice looking car or painting, or anything, the funny thing is that i still don't want anything romantic or too close with them. You may be more pleased/calm just to be around them, but that is as far as it goes for me. And it decreases over time, since not only beauty is time-related (people grow old and start to "decade" in terms of aesthetics) but also is some sort of particular state, someone might be beauty in that particular moment, with that particular set of clothing and make-up, but people are, in my opinion, not beauty "in an intrinsic way", since it's very easy to gain/loose that good-looking quality. [[Other approach is to say that, to me, beauty is a product of what people do to themselves and not a quality of what people "are"]

The "attraction" to the "good-willed person" aspect is totally different, null for me at least, and it's highly debatable too.

On an important side note, i noticed that i'm more prone to feel this nuances/shocks of aesthetic attraction when i'm stressed. It might be related to the natural release of oxytocin (the cuddle hormone) during stress, it makes sense to me at least. Dunno if it's the case for others aro/aces. I described a little of it in my first post around here.

(If anyone is interested: www.asexuality.org/en/topic/99851-hi-there-want-to-share-my-long-and-confusing-history/?view=findpost&p=1060735131)

As a silly but true example, the one girl i felt this more intense feeling of aesthetic attraction eventually cut her hair short. And that alone was more than enough to throw the attraction off to me. Also i eventually regained my calm-self and everything went normal again.

Me too.. I feel like sometimes I have "decreasing" aesthetic attraction to people as well. I think it's a normal human reaction to slowly find patterns in people soothing and that might mimic the emotions of "love" that you are feeling. These reactions usually start at childhood and never really goes away..

[Wokgran X]

Me too.. I feel like sometimes I have "decreasing" aesthetic attraction to people as well. I think it's a normal human reaction to slowly find patterns in people soothing and that might mimic the emotions of "love" that you are feeling. These reactions usually start at childhood and never really goes away..

At that time i considered, or was told by others, that it was "love", but later on I reanalyzed the whole thing again and again, and come to the conclusion that if anything it was some sort of (aesthetic) squish intensified by stress. Since that was my first post, i wasn't using the proper terms yet. But sure, the natural way seems to be the other way around, "increasing" the aspects that mimics love over time and not "decreasing" them. Also i really despise the idea of "me being in love" and "doing irrational love-things", so those feelings are interpreted by me like some sort of poison that might grow a little over a very limited amount of time and then start decreasing (thankfully!).

This is were it gets very weird, it's like being able to detect that this person would be a nice romantic partner, only by aesthetics though, but the feelings and emotions hit a wall every time they get near the thoughts of "living with the person" or "being romantic with them". And i like that reaction, looks like some sort of immunity to this poison called love.

(And i, because of the dare, spent my whole life creating walls against what might happen after i would be in love, mental walls to restrict actions and not exactly feelings, that's why i meant in some of my posts that it was like building a castle to an invisible enemy concept that never appeared, like it was just a matter of undoing the castle, opening it's door to "love", but "the door" never existed)

If i build this particular wall to romantic relationships/longing (unconsciously) myself because of the dare or if it's natural, that is a question that i might never be able to answer, but as long as i can decode my actions, patterns, preferences and throw all this into a more open rational model, everything is fine.

(And i find words as Asexual and Aromantic very close to perfect descriptions of what happen, since I do feel void of this "longing" to do those things.)

But in the end, it might be just me "overthinking" things as some proud INTJ xDDD

---

And if it's not rude to ask, since there aren't many posts here with this particular interesting topic:

Your decreasing aesthetic attraction is related to what? Are you able to pinpoint the cause/possible triggers? Or it's just something you noticed that happens?

[LadyWallflower]

Hey guys. I'm pretty sure when it comes to my asexuality, but I've never put much thought into what romantic orientation I had. I believe I am aromantic, however. Whenever I fantasize over the future, I'm always living by myself. In fact, I dream about having my own place, and living how I want. Living by myself for ever seems like a dream!

I also always dream about having really good friend who I am very close to. They, usually, are in a romantic relationship with someone else, and are usually not interested in my gender. (For instance, I often fantasize about having a really close male friend. But he is oftentimes gay and with someone else. I figure it's because then I know he will never be into me). But that's as close as I fantasize. The idea of cuddling, hugging, kissing, etc. all feel really weird to me, and I don't want to do it.. I can't wrap my head around it. I also felt weird because I've never done anything physical EVER. I'm glad I found a place like this. Does anyone else feel like this?

[corduroyjackalope]

I don't like touching and holding hands or snuggling leaves me wondering when and how to disengage.

[Maelstrom_17]

Me too.. I feel like sometimes I have "decreasing" aesthetic attraction to people as well. I think it's a normal human reaction to slowly find patterns in people soothing and that might mimic the emotions of "love" that you are feeling. These reactions usually start at childhood and never really goes away..

At that time i considered, or was told by others, that it was "love", but later on I reanalyzed the whole thing again and again, and come to the conclusion that if anything it was some sort of (aesthetic) squish intensified by stress. Since that was my first post, i wasn't using the proper terms yet. But sure, the natural way seems to be the other way around, "increasing" the aspects that mimics love over time and not "decreasing" them. Also i really despise the idea of "me being in love" and "doing irrational love-things", so those feelings are interpreted by me like some sort of poison that might grow a little over a very limited amount of time and then start decreasing (thankfully!).

This is were it gets very weird, it's like being able to detect that this person would be a nice romantic partner, only by aesthetics though, but the feelings and emotions hit a wall every time they get near the thoughts of "living with the person" or "being romantic with them". And i like that reaction, looks like some sort of immunity to this poison called love.

(And i, because of the dare, spent my whole life creating walls against what might happen after i would be in love, mental walls to restrict actions and not exactly feelings, that's why i meant in some of my posts that it was like building a castle to an invisible enemy concept that never appeared, like it was just a matter of undoing the castle, opening it's door to "love", but "the door" never existed)

If i build this particular wall to romantic relationships/longing (unconsciously) myself because of the dare or if it's natural, that is a question that i might never be able to answer, but as long as i can decode my actions, patterns, preferences and throw all this into a more open rational model, everything is fine.

(And i find words as Asexual and Aromantic very close to perfect descriptions of what happen, since I do feel void of this "longing" to do those things.)

But in the end, it might be just me "overthinking" things as some proud INTJ xDDD

---

And if it's not rude to ask, since there aren't many posts here with this particular interesting topic:

Your decreasing aesthetic attraction is related to what? Are you able to pinpoint the cause/possible triggers? Or it's just something you noticed that happens?

Maybe just when I've hit a hard point in my life or when I'm tired, etc. certain people "look attractive." Usually after that period in my life is over, the attraction disappears for a long time and doesn't appear for awhile. Just out of curiosity, what is your decreasing aesthetic attraction related to?

[Wokgran X]

Maybe just when I've hit a hard point in my life or when I'm tired, etc. certain people "look attractive." Usually after that period in my life is over, the attraction disappears for a long time and doesn't appear for awhile. Just out of curiosity, what is your decreasing aesthetic attraction related to?

So it's not permanent? Whenever you are more tired or frustrated those attractions get lower. Interesting. Even more interesting to know that it appears again after the turmoil.

Mine is very volatile, as in, very easy to disappear to never come back. It's heavily influenced by how the person usually looks, so, for instance, if the person (girl) in question have short hair or cut her hair short, that is enough to deactivate any aesthetic attraction for me. Same if anything happens to how the face was structured, let's say, this person gets into an accident and some aspect of the facial expression is disfigured/altered, that might be enough to throw it off too.

The decreasing aspect is related to some funny things, one is that after it hit the barrier where i can't imagine myself with the person, it naturally goes on fading, forcing myself to ignore that person looks. Also, as time goes on (aging), people faces get "uglier", as wrinkles start to appear and etc. Some of the decreasing is also related to be able to properly look to the person faces/body and detect defects or imperfections, and allowing me to lower the initial high aesthetic score of that given person. It's complex, and it's funny how i noticed things got worse after i got my glasses, because suddenly the pores/acne and lots of imperfections turned visible to me.

(Needless to say, personality and behavior alter one's image, since that person is not a statue, and is giving different aspects and angles/expressions to look at every time.)

(When i'm stressed or feeling down, i naturally look for things that amuse me, so it's not strange that people look better when i'm feeling bad, which is contrary to what you stated, i guess. Perhaps different feelings entirely.)

I like the art/car/picture comparison because it fits so well, for example, for a given wonderful picture, it only is beautiful for a amount set of times you look at it, after that, you might start detecting things that could be better, and the picture as a whole may start to get lower scores in your "amusement" level. And that original amusement is gone, forever gone, and decreases every time you look at it again, without helping to count the previous imperfections + those that you noticed now. (Dunno if others feel like that, maybe it's some kind of perfectionist dilemma)

And the final side note, someone said to me once, that if i wanted a girlfriend i wouldn't be able to aim perfection at the very beginning, that i had to gather experience first with less aesthetic appealing women first. My answer was: "Then, what is the point?". And i really meant it, that's the only pleasure i probably can find in announcing to the world that someone is your significant other (winning the right to look at the person without guilt and having others respect your nice "tastes of face/body-looking"), and believe me that i already find the idea of romantic relationships very stupid/irrational, territorial and self-imposing (but i do respect those who seek it). Any other good thing that might come out of it and i accept doing, is under normal/close friendships. Honestly, close friendships often offer more than i want.

[A lone Tyranid]

I do not like any romantic or sexual views. They are both something which makes no sense to me.

I don't like people touching me. Once, there was this "cute" girl in the class who was hugging people at random. I decided to walk entirely the other way to avoid that.

I just don't feel any need to be romantic. It all seems pointless and a waste of time. I like time where I can do what I want and are not expected to do things for anyone else. Doesn't anyone recognize that doing things like "romantic gestures" is sort of on the line of a violation of free will. Your only doing it because that is what is socially expected.

I don't feel sexual urges either.

Romance is all over rated and pointless. I don't feel any need to do that because my time can be better spent elsewhere. I don't want to give up my time for anyone else unless they are my family/friends and/or dying.

It may sound stupid to some, but it all makes perfect sense to me.

Romance=Pointless and unexciting. Stupid. Useless. Boring. Dull. Uncomfortable. Insert other adjectives that you would use to describe watching grass grow.

[slant]

im feeling aromantic lately. i am capable of crushes and have for sure had them in the past but what i am beginning to realize is that i am way happier just imagining romantic relationships than actually engaging in them. i am really introverted and like a lot of alone time so it becomes a stress to try to keep up a relationship when sometimes i will legit talk to no one outside of family for five months. also with dating it seems like a really boring process to get to know someone and i hate the expectation that at some point it has to go to the next level as in being exclusive, physical touch, gushy words of affection. it just seems like smothering to me. but idk lol just rambling here i guess

[Maelstrom_17]

Maybe just when I've hit a hard point in my life or when I'm tired, etc. certain people "look attractive." Usually after that period in my life is over, the attraction disappears for a long time and doesn't appear for awhile. Just out of curiosity, what is your decreasing aesthetic attraction related to?

So it's not permanent? Whenever you are more tired or frustrated those attractions get lower. Interesting. Even more interesting to know that it appears again after the turmoil.

Mine is very volatile, as in, very easy to disappear to never come back. It's heavily influenced by how the person usually looks, so, for instance, if the person (girl) in question have short hair or cut her hair short, that is enough to deactivate any aesthetic attraction for me. Same if anything happens to how the face was structured, let's say, this person gets into an accident and some aspect of the facial expression is disfigured/altered, that might be enough to throw it off too.

The decreasing aspect is related to some funny things, one is that after it hit the barrier where i can't imagine myself with the person, it naturally goes on fading, forcing myself to ignore that person looks. Also, as time goes on (aging), people faces get "uglier", as wrinkles start to appear and etc. Some of the decreasing is also related to be able to properly look to the person faces/body and detect defects or imperfections, and allowing me to lower the initial high aesthetic score of that given person. It's complex, and it's funny how i noticed things got worse after i got my glasses, because suddenly the pores/acne and lots of imperfections turned visible to me.

(Needless to say, personality and behavior alter one's image, since that person is not a statue, and is giving different aspects and angles/expressions to look at every time.)

(When i'm stressed or feeling down, i naturally look for things that amuse me, so it's not strange that people look better when i'm feeling bad, which is contrary to what you stated, i guess. Perhaps different feelings entirely.)

I like the art/car/picture comparison because it fits so well, for example, for a given wonderful picture, it only is beautiful for a amount set of times you look at it, after that, you might start detecting things that could be better, and the picture as a whole may start to get lower scores in your "amusement" level. And that original amusement is gone, forever gone, and decreases every time you look at it again, without helping to count the previous imperfections + those that you noticed now. (Dunno if others feel like that, maybe it's some kind of perfectionist dilemma)

And the final side note, someone said to me once, that if i wanted a girlfriend i wouldn't be able to aim perfection at the very beginning, that i had to gather experience first with less aesthetic appealing women first. My answer was: "Then, what is the point?". And i really meant it, that's the only pleasure i probably can find in announcing to the world that someone is your significant other (winning the right to look at the person without guilt and having others respect your nice "tastes of face/body-looking"), and believe me that i already find the idea of romantic relationships very stupid/irrational, territorial and self-imposing (but i do respect those who seek it). Any other good thing that might come out of it and i accept doing, is under normal/close friendships. Honestly, close friendships often offer more than i want.

It doesn't appear immediately after said event. Only when another period in my life is troubling. Then it appears again. I wrote this when I was really tired, so it probably didn't make any sense. :D

Same here for the attraction decreasing if someone gets a haircut, makeup change, etc. (although acne can bother me quite a bit on either gender..). I tend to find people attractive in the sense that they are beautiful in a painting or whatever, but after seeming them closely and observing imperfections physically as well as in their personality (being too loud, roudy, annoying, etc.) Then I'm like, I'm really not interested in this person because they have all these traits that irritate me.. I don't have that phenomenon where you look at someone pretty and all of the sudden everything about them seems perfect.

Also, the barrier that you mentioned can occur anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of months, but the barrier usually occurs pretty fast (usually a couple of minutes or an hour or two)

I think what I was saying is the same as you regarding "people look better when I'm down," kind of thing. I didn't see how that was contradictory to what I had said earlier..

[Wokgran X]

It doesn't appear immediately after said event. Only when another period in my life is troubling. Then it appears again. I wrote this when I was really tired, so it probably didn't make any sense. :D

Same here for the attraction decreasing if someone gets a haircut, makeup change, etc. (although acne can bother me quite a bit on either gender..). I tend to find people attractive in the sense that they are beautiful in a painting or whatever, but after seeming them closely and observing imperfections physically as well as in their personality (being too loud, roudy, annoying, etc.) Then I'm like, I'm really not interested in this person because they have all these traits that irritate me.. I don't have that phenomenon where you look at someone pretty and all of the sudden everything about them seems perfect.

Also, the barrier that you mentioned can occur anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of months, but the barrier usually occurs pretty fast (usually a couple of minutes or an hour or two)

I think what I was saying is the same as you regarding "people look better when I'm down," kind of thing. I didn't see how that was contradictory to what I had said earlier..

It's probably my fault, since you gave a direct answer, i thought it was directly related to the question.

"Your decreasing aesthetic attraction is related to what? Are you able to pinpoint the cause/possible triggers?"

And then the answer was all about explaining how it causes it to increase in down times, rather then decrease, so i thought the opposite of what you actually stated. Reading again, sure, it makes a lot more sense to be the other way around. My fault.

Anyway, it's always nice to share some qualities with people around here. The outside world always seems so alien and different. But you made me curious about one thing, perhaps it's too personal, but, do you feel any intrinsic need under special conditions to be in romantic relationships, since you claim to be Grey/Panromantic? Even having this sort of blocking mechanism that is quite fast? Mine usually take some days to notice and shut everything down, now that i'm more aware of it, perhaps it will get quicker, but i honestly don't like to test it that much.

And yes, i found some people, on very rare and specific conditions with such a face that was very close to my perfection models. But make-up can deceive a lot, so as we only see some people under the make-up mask, it's hard to say i would find that person pretty in any occasion. I like to point "Yuri Masuda" as a common example, she was kinda meh when she started to sing, but then got money and powerful make-ups and awesome hair styles and the final result was much better. And i usually only reserve the top-notch-high-good-looking ranks to anime/fictional characters.

I must say, however, that perhaps this is because i forced myself to believe that i had to find someone beautiful, and learned how to rate and evaluate them due to outside pressure.

Like this brilliant ace comment in this reddit thread.

And on top of all of that, because it's just not done yet, I have the joy of realizing just how utterly wrong so many things I do because of this are. Some I already knew. I've even mentioned them a few times, like how my old friends were big into the "chick watching." My parents taught me better, and I didn't even see the appeal, and yet I fucking had to learn how to analyze this shit anyway. And when I started finding "good" things to my friend's satisfaction, they had to up the difficulty. Because I still wasn't getting it. I had to learn what was "bad" too, and spout that back to them. Just to have the few shit friends that I did, I ignored what I knew from my parents, and what I felt from myself.

[Swimfreak660]

I've never experienced romantic attraction, I like cuddling or hugging on occasions but it varies and is always on a platonic level. I've been thinking I was aromantic for a while because of my lack of romantic attraction and need for relationships more than a group of close friends. As I think about it more that seems to be the conclusion I always reach.

[Maelstrom_17]

It doesn't appear immediately after said event. Only when another period in my life is troubling. Then it appears again. I wrote this when I was really tired, so it probably didn't make any sense. :D

Same here for the attraction decreasing if someone gets a haircut, makeup change, etc. (although acne can bother me quite a bit on either gender..). I tend to find people attractive in the sense that they are beautiful in a painting or whatever, but after seeming them closely and observing imperfections physically as well as in their personality (being too loud, roudy, annoying, etc.) Then I'm like, I'm really not interested in this person because they have all these traits that irritate me.. I don't have that phenomenon where you look at someone pretty and all of the sudden everything about them seems perfect.

Also, the barrier that you mentioned can occur anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of months, but the barrier usually occurs pretty fast (usually a couple of minutes or an hour or two)

I think what I was saying is the same as you regarding "people look better when I'm down," kind of thing. I didn't see how that was contradictory to what I had said earlier..

It's probably my fault, since you gave a direct answer, i thought it was directly related to the question.

"Your decreasing aesthetic attraction is related to what? Are you able to pinpoint the cause/possible triggers?"

And then the answer was all about explaining how it causes it to increase in down times, rather then decrease, so i thought the opposite of what you actually stated. Reading again, sure, it makes a lot more sense to be the other way around. My fault.

Anyway, it's always nice to share some qualities with people around here. The outside world always seems so alien and different. But you made me curious about one thing, perhaps it's too personal, but, do you feel any intrinsic need under special conditions to be in romantic relationships, since you claim to be Grey/Panromantic? Even having this sort of blocking mechanism that is quite fast? Mine usually take some days to notice and shut everything down, now that i'm more aware of it, perhaps it will get quicker, but i honestly don't like to test it that much.

And yes, i found some people, on very rare and specific conditions with such a face that was very close to my perfection models. But make-up can deceive a lot, so as we only see some people under the make-up mask, it's hard to say i would find that person pretty in any occasion. I like to point "Yuri Masuda" as a common example, she was kinda meh when she started to sing, but then got money and powerful make-ups and awesome hair styles and the final result was much better. And i usually only reserve the top-notch-high-good-looking ranks to anime/fictional characters.

I must say, however, that perhaps this is because i forced myself to believe that i had to find someone beautiful, and learned how to rate and evaluate them due to outside pressure.

Like this brilliant ace comment in this reddit thread.

And on top of all of that, because it's just not done yet, I have the joy of realizing just how utterly wrong so many things I do because of this are. Some I already knew. I've even mentioned them a few times, like how my old friends were big into the "chick watching." My parents taught me better, and I didn't even see the appeal, and yet I fucking had to learn how to analyze this shit anyway. And when I started finding "good" things to my friend's satisfaction, they had to up the difficulty. Because I still wasn't getting it. I had to learn what was "bad" too, and spout that back to them. Just to have the few shit friends that I did, I ignored what I knew from my parents, and what I felt from myself.

Eh.. referring to the spoiler under your name, I don't think that it's fair to judge people based on looks no matter how much makeup they have or whatever. I know that that's not how it works in real life, but I would like people to stop looking at superficial stuff so often. I mean looks are great and all, but they don't really bother me that much in particular. Usually I just look at people once in awhile but none of the faces (pretty or otherwise) stick in my mind very often. Just out of curiosity, what is an INTJ? I know it's an entreprenurial organization, but I don't think that's what you're going for.. right?

[Wokgran X]

Eh.. referring to the spoiler under your name, I don't think that it's fair to judge people based on looks no matter how much makeup they have or whatever. I know that that's not how it works in real life, but I would like people to stop looking at superficial stuff so often. I mean looks are great and all, but they don't really bother me that much in particular. Usually I just look at people once in awhile but none of the faces (pretty or otherwise) stick in my mind very often. Just out of curiosity, what is an INTJ? I know it's an entreprenurial organization, but I don't think that's what you're going for.. right?

INTJ is one of the results (personality types) of the Myers-Brigg Personality test. Since i often find people here who knows all about it, i usually forget that some never heard of it. Here is the full explanation on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator. It stands for "Introspective, iNtuitive, Thinker and Judgmental".

Sorry, it went longer than i expected, again, it turned into some sort of rant.

TL;DR:About the good looking aspect, I think it's fair as an initial judge, and, well, I don't keep looking at other people since I think it's rude to. But when I have to look, sure, looking at someone who put effort into actually looking better, is something i can appreciate. And they stick in my mind, as anything that is good-looking sticks. Anyway, full explanation in spoiler below :lol:

And about looks, well, I do consider make-up as part of the "good-looking" because it makes difference on how the person looks and only because of that. Like I said, to me, beauty is something defined in a particular moment. I do give a reasonable amount of importance to looks in general, not only of humans, but objects and other things, perhaps because I like practical arts, since I worked and enjoyed working as an art director in publicity, but I wont make my judgment of someone based only in how that person looks. That I agree, it's very rude. If I am looking for a car to take a photo of, I would like to take the photo of the best good-looking car I can, or that combined with being able to approach it and taking other nice photos. If we are talking about people, since the furthest I will probably go is only looking at them, why not look at those who look nicest? If I'm seeking true friendship, I will seek those who appear smartest and then, during my conversations with those people, rate if that's aligned with what I seek in them, if I can share nice conversations of abstract theories about the most random things and still laugh about it. If i'm looking for a low-key friendship, then I will seek people who are more likely to have hobbies and entertainment interests that are similar to those I have, for instance, anime fans (otakus), vocaloid fans, and japanese culture fans. And notice how appearance is quite the opposite of good looking in the former, since most of those who expend lots of time watching anime wont expend it trying to have a better appearance. So, yes, I use people appearance as, at least, the first indicator of that person qualities and preferences, but it would be very uncommon of me to deliberately treat that person in a rude way, just because they look bad. When you are willing to hire someone, and are doing the job interview, how the person looks does have some huge impact on the final decision, and it's reasonable that it does, because we don't work alone, we interact with other people that also will be more comfortable with nice looking people. Wrapping bad cookies in a nice package, might cause people to eat/buy it once, and then never buy it again. Wrapping wonderful cookies in a bad looking package might cause them to never experiment in the first place. But is it wrong? The amount of effort that is put into the outside isn't usually proportional to the amount of the inside? Of course exceptions exist, but again, we can't eat the cookie without buying the whole package.

So, I agree with you that appearance is overrated but I also agree with those who use it as a tool, because, honestly, we don't have time to test people we just met, or are willing to meet. People don't walk around with their qualities and defects stamped on their forehead, if they did, perhaps we could reduce the appearance aspect of the world. Like how when we are willing to buy some electronic equipment, we can look into the technical specs and compare our options, without caring that much about it's external appearance. But with random people that you know nothing about? Why not use it? As long you don't take that initial judgment as something set in stone, unchangeable, it's fine.

[SilverDreamer]

Uh, hi, new person to the site, joining because I've had a lot of thoughts about my romantic orientation lately and nobody to talk to. Known I'm ace for almost two years now, but only in the last few months I acknowledged I'm aromantic. Never been in a romantic relationship even before that, never had any interest in it. Besides, I'm sure I'd just wind up embarrassing myself--being so antisocial in high school has made it difficult sometimes to understand people's intentions.

Heck, it's like when I was coming to terms with my own asexuality, not knowing the difference between aesthetic attraction and sexual attraction. All my knowledge about how people act around each other comes from bad television, so my immediate assumption when a guy tries to pay for my half of the bill is that he assumes it's a date. Then I say I'm not interested in them that way, and both times they're already taken. Can't tell the difference between when somebody's being polite and when they're flirting.

[Maelstrom_17]

Eh.. referring to the spoiler under your name, I don't think that it's fair to judge people based on looks no matter how much makeup they have or whatever. I know that that's not how it works in real life, but I would like people to stop looking at superficial stuff so often. I mean looks are great and all, but they don't really bother me that much in particular. Usually I just look at people once in awhile but none of the faces (pretty or otherwise) stick in my mind very often. Just out of curiosity, what is an INTJ? I know it's an entreprenurial organization, but I don't think that's what you're going for.. right?

INTJ is one of the results (personality types) of the Myers-Brigg Personality test. Since i often find people here who knows all about it, i usually forget that some never heard of it. Here is the full explanation on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator. It stands for "Introspective, iNtuitive, Thinker and Judgmental".

Sorry, it went longer than i expected, again, it turned into some sort of rant.

TL;DR:About the good looking aspect, I think it's fair as an initial judge, and, well, I don't keep looking at other people since I think it's rude to. But when I have to look, sure, looking at someone who put effort into actually looking better, is something i can appreciate. And they stick in my mind, as anything that is good-looking sticks. Anyway, full explanation in spoiler below :lol:

And about looks, well, I do consider make-up as part of the "good-looking" because it makes difference on how the person looks and only because of that. Like I said, to me, beauty is something defined in a particular moment. I do give a reasonable amount of importance to looks in general, not only of humans, but objects and other things, perhaps because I like practical arts, since I worked and enjoyed working as an art director in publicity, but I wont make my judgment of someone based only in how that person looks. That I agree, it's very rude. If I am looking for a car to take a photo of, I would like to take the photo of the best good-looking car I can, or that combined with being able to approach it and taking other nice photos. If we are talking about people, since the furthest I will probably go is only looking at them, why not look at those who look nicest? If I'm seeking true friendship, I will seek those who appear smartest and then, during my conversations with those people, rate if that's aligned with what I seek in them, if I can share nice conversations of abstract theories about the most random things and still laugh about it. If i'm looking for a low-key friendship, then I will seek people who are more likely to have hobbies and entertainment interests that are similar to those I have, for instance, anime fans (otakus), vocaloid fans, and japanese culture fans. And notice how appearance is quite the opposite of good looking in the former, since most of those who expend lots of time watching anime wont expend it trying to have a better appearance. So, yes, I use people appearance as, at least, the first indicator of that person qualities and preferences, but it would be very uncommon of me to deliberately treat that person in a rude way, just because they look bad. When you are willing to hire someone, and are doing the job interview, how the person looks does have some huge impact on the final decision, and it's reasonable that it does, because we don't work alone, we interact with other people that also will be more comfortable with nice looking people. Wrapping bad cookies in a nice package, might cause people to eat/buy it once, and then never buy it again. Wrapping wonderful cookies in a bad looking package might cause them to never experiment in the first place. But is it wrong? The amount of effort that is put into the outside isn't usually proportional to the amount of the inside? Of course exceptions exist, but again, we can't eat the cookie without buying the whole package.

So, I agree with you that appearance is overrated but I also agree with those who use it as a tool, because, honestly, we don't have time to test people we just met, or are willing to meet. People don't walk around with their qualities and defects stamped on their forehead, if they did, perhaps we could reduce the appearance aspect of the world. Like how when we are willing to buy some electronic equipment, we can look into the technical specs and compare our options, without caring that much about it's external appearance. But with random people that you know nothing about? Why not use it? As long you don't take that initial judgment as something set in stone, unchangeable, it's fine.

I feel like if you really believed that the system was broken/not right, etc., you find a definite way to change it. Either by philosophizing or protesting or something of that nature. So I feel like I'm getting the impression that you don't really want the system to change. :)

I wouldn't want to use it because it's used disproportionately to judge women and their personalities even before people meet them. I don't agree with that at all. But I do agree that sometimes observing how people look and feeling good/bad about it is a part of human nature but people shouldn't necessarily feel "drawn" towards someone because of their lack (or apparent lack thereof,) of beauty.

I was suspecting that INTJ was from Myers-Briggs, but I wasn't really sure since I've seen INTJ mean a lot of things, including the aforementioned entrepreneurship organization (it's a very selective mentoring organization)

[Wokgran X]

Eh.. referring to the spoiler under your name, I don't think that it's fair to judge people based on looks no matter how much makeup they have or whatever. I know that that's not how it works in real life, but I would like people to stop looking at superficial stuff so often. I mean looks are great and all, but they don't really bother me that much in particular. Usually I just look at people once in awhile but none of the faces (pretty or otherwise) stick in my mind very often. Just out of curiosity, what is an INTJ? I know it's an entreprenurial organization, but I don't think that's what you're going for.. right?

INTJ is one of the results (personality types) of the Myers-Brigg Personality test. Since i often find people here who knows all about it, i usually forget that some never heard of it. Here is the full explanation on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator. It stands for "Introspective, iNtuitive, Thinker and Judgmental".

Sorry, it went longer than i expected, again, it turned into some sort of rant.

TL;DR:About the good looking aspect, I think it's fair as an initial judge, and, well, I don't keep looking at other people since I think it's rude to. But when I have to look, sure, looking at someone who put effort into actually looking better, is something i can appreciate. And they stick in my mind, as anything that is good-looking sticks. Anyway, full explanation in spoiler below :lol:

And about looks, well, I do consider make-up as part of the "good-looking" because it makes difference on how the person looks and only because of that. Like I said, to me, beauty is something defined in a particular moment. I do give a reasonable amount of importance to looks in general, not only of humans, but objects and other things, perhaps because I like practical arts, since I worked and enjoyed working as an art director in publicity, but I wont make my judgment of someone based only in how that person looks. That I agree, it's very rude. If I am looking for a car to take a photo of, I would like to take the photo of the best good-looking car I can, or that combined with being able to approach it and taking other nice photos. If we are talking about people, since the furthest I will probably go is only looking at them, why not look at those who look nicest? If I'm seeking true friendship, I will seek those who appear smartest and then, during my conversations with those people, rate if that's aligned with what I seek in them, if I can share nice conversations of abstract theories about the most random things and still laugh about it. If i'm looking for a low-key friendship, then I will seek people who are more likely to have hobbies and entertainment interests that are similar to those I have, for instance, anime fans (otakus), vocaloid fans, and japanese culture fans. And notice how appearance is quite the opposite of good looking in the former, since most of those who expend lots of time watching anime wont expend it trying to have a better appearance. So, yes, I use people appearance as, at least, the first indicator of that person qualities and preferences, but it would be very uncommon of me to deliberately treat that person in a rude way, just because they look bad. When you are willing to hire someone, and are doing the job interview, how the person looks does have some huge impact on the final decision, and it's reasonable that it does, because we don't work alone, we interact with other people that also will be more comfortable with nice looking people. Wrapping bad cookies in a nice package, might cause people to eat/buy it once, and then never buy it again. Wrapping wonderful cookies in a bad looking package might cause them to never experiment in the first place. But is it wrong? The amount of effort that is put into the outside isn't usually proportional to the amount of the inside? Of course exceptions exist, but again, we can't eat the cookie without buying the whole package.

So, I agree with you that appearance is overrated but I also agree with those who use it as a tool, because, honestly, we don't have time to test people we just met, or are willing to meet. People don't walk around with their qualities and defects stamped on their forehead, if they did, perhaps we could reduce the appearance aspect of the world. Like how when we are willing to buy some electronic equipment, we can look into the technical specs and compare our options, without caring that much about it's external appearance. But with random people that you know nothing about? Why not use it? As long you don't take that initial judgment as something set in stone, unchangeable, it's fine.

I feel like if you really believed that the system was broken/not right, etc., you find a definite way to change it. Either by philosophizing or protesting or something of that nature. So I feel like I'm getting the impression that you don't really want the system to change. :)

I wouldn't want to use it because it's used disproportionately to judge women and their personalities even before people meet them. I don't agree with that at all. But I do agree that sometimes observing how people look and feeling good/bad about it is a part of human nature but people shouldn't necessarily feel "drawn" towards someone because of their lack (or apparent lack thereof,) of beauty.

I was suspecting that INTJ was from Myers-Briggs, but I wasn't really sure since I've seen INTJ mean a lot of things, including the aforementioned entrepreneurship organization (it's a very selective mentoring organization)

Indeed i don't think this system is "bad/broken", it's just overused or used in a way that's more intense than it should. And it's not only towards women, men (and any other gender) suffer with it too. ("Look at that guy, he looks so weak/such a wimp!", "Not masculine at all")

And again, even knowing it's not the best way (exceptions exist), at least around here (Brazil) it gives you some hints about people with ulterior motives, specially thugs/robbers and so on. But again, you think that we don't need any kind of hint or initial judge towards other people? I can't really understand how it's possible to ignore it. I can only understand one being open to change the initial judgment that was passed after knowing that person better. Also i know some people don't judge at all, but i cant expect this to be forced into everyone as some sort of rule. We should not try to control other people thoughts, we should restrain only their actions. As in, people should be free to think/judge whatever "Bullshit" they want, as long as they don't force their will in other people (that don't want that). Using the job interview as an example, again, if the interviewer only accept good-looking people to the job, when the job itself is not (directly) related to looking good, then he needs to be "corrected" by his company or prove that his judging methods were actually clean and fair or the beauty factor was some sort of coincidence or it's well aligned with the job in question.

The feeling drawn to someone that looks bad is something easy to explain, I guess, if you look bad, you might want to be surrounded by people who look worse or as bad as you, to improve your self-esteem and don't be attacked by the group itself. Also to act as a pack of similar people to be protected against external threats. When you put romantic dynamics into this, things get hazy, because romantic people seems to also consider beauty as some high standard to spark their romantic drive. So befriending people that are more beautiful than you would be easier in that case, but that alone might not secure you against romantics. So there is this little magical platonic relationship, that allow you to befriend people that is way more beautiful or way richer than you, because the chances/odds of this friendship be ruined by love are very low (and you can be delighted by how beautiful they are, or how elegant they are and so on), but you will pay the price of being with someone that is very different than you, and will probably be attacked by others by this difference. Or maybe you might get into this kind of relationship.