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Willing Sexual Compromise is not Abuse


Lady Girl

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If someone does or says something that you consider wrong or manipulative, then this says much about their character. In the grand scheme of things, it is good info to know that you had been dealing with someone you now consider a jerk.


If you are afraid you will be alone if you don't put out, then that is on you. If someone uses your fears against you, then figure out what you really fear. Losing them? Why would you fear that with so many other people in the world? Heck, the guy can bay "Fuck Me Now!" to the moon, for all I care ... and I'll be on my merry way socializing with others. Life is good that way. :)


Your mileage may vary, :)

Lucinda

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I just don't see it could count as real consent if it's done out of fear. I think in a real compromise, it would be done out of mutual respect and understanding.

Very true. The example "f me or gtfo" earlier in the thread is a very bad one, because, although the threat to leave isn't seen by some of the above (or... on the last page, as only Lucinda is above :blush: ) as coercion, it definitely depends on the values of the person being handed the ultimatum. I was even conflicted by the words, "well, I'm going to need that sometimes..." when it was a respectful conversation going on. If I knew I was ace back then, maybe I wouldn't have felt so bad about never being able to please him that way (pretty good explanation of feeling broken, now I think of it). But I don't know. I do know my brain ran away with it, and I got scared. I loved him so much, being away from him seemed like the worst punishment ever. Least it only hurts sometimes now, and less in general. He wasn't trying to mess with my head, so none of the fault lies with him. Or with me, technically.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that people should be smart enough to notice there was no coercion intended in some cases. I do realize that, and no one is at fault imo. Was I stupid for not realizing I wouldn't have to put out? No; I realized it perfectly fine. I just felt in my own head like I should be able to... *sigh* Heck, sometimes I actually DID want it, and I know those were all well and good. They aren't the times I'm conflicted about. idek what I'm saying anymore. Oh, yeah. TL:DR: Even if coercion is not intended, it may be perceived, and while that isn't illegal, abusive, or anything on the part of the sexual, or other (gray?)asexual, in my case... it can still be a point of mental/emotional internal conflict.

This person is leaving the thread again, for now.

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.

If you are afraid you will be alone if you don't put out, then that is on you. If someone uses your fears against you, then figure out what you really fear. Losing them? Why would you fear that with so many other people in the world? Heck, the guy can bay "Fuck Me Now!" to the moon, for all I care ... and I'll be on my merry way socializing with others. Life is good that way. :)
Your mileage may vary, :)
Lucinda

Indeed, mileage does vary, and so do people. Your statement could also vary; instead of saying "put out", you could say "have a loving sexual relationship with", and that would be how some asexual people define their dilemma: they can't manage to do that with the people they love, and who love them. Because that's what their partners want, not just a fuck. Life is sometimes not good that way.

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You're right. Emily said "give it up" instead of "put out". Regardless, I didn't interpret her as saying she would consider that a "loving sexual relationship". If she considers it emotionally abusive for someone to use manipulative tactics by playing on her fears, then I won't argue that it wasn't abusive from her perspective. However, if she figures out why she has those fears, then no one will be able to use them against her.

And that is what I wish for her.

Lucinda

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But you seem to be coming at this from the perspective that having fears of being alone are somehow bad, and we should figure out how to cure them. People who definitely don't want to be alone know what they fear, and don't need lectures about it.

However, there's a different kind of fear, one that I experienced: a fear of losing one particular relationship, because I valued it, and so did my partner. Neither of us wanted to be without the other.

Not wanting to be alone, and not wanting to be without a specific person, are not unconscious feelings, or bad feelings, or indicative of something that needs to be cured. They can, instead, be part of our personality, our character. You may not experience either of those feelings. But for those who do, saying "it's on you" is patronizing and unkind.

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. TL:DR: Even if coercion is not intended, it may be perceived, and while that isn't illegal, abusive, or anything on the part of the sexual, or other (gray?)asexual, in my case... it can still be a point of mental/emotional internal conflict.

This person is leaving the thread again, for now.

Yes, there is conflict sometimes. But, if your partner asks - even if they ask in a jerk manner - and you say yes ... as you said, it's not illegal or abusive if you consent even if conflicted about it. That was all the other posters were saying. It can hurt, it can cause emotional issues, it can suck and it is not a good position to be in. But, UNLESS a no would mean serious harm to you - your partner leaving you not counting, they should have the right to say they need X or the relationship doesn't work without it being called coercion - it's not abuse. I know very well how much it can hurt to have to give up a person you love because of one stupid incompatibility, but in the end, it's the right thing to do when that incompatibility causes pain that the joy of the relationship cannot outweigh.

I just don't see it could count as real consent if it's done out of fear. I think in a real compromise, it would be done out of mutual respect and understanding.

Depends on WHAT the fear is. If I say yes to sex because I fear losing my partner if I say no more sex (which is what would happen, we've already discussed it), it's not his fault at that point. To say "I need sex for a relationship" is perfectly valid. To say "I need no sex for a relationship" is also valid. Neither party has a right to DEMAND the other change. Both sides can ask, work out a compromise, or agree to break up. Neither party should put the other down for their need. And it's not abusive to accept a yes that was given. I am not enthusiastic about sex, I may grump sometimes, but it doesn't hurt me to give it, just annoys me at times (especially if I am into playing a game or reading a book or something :P ). He has to trust me to say no if I REALLY don't want something, I have to trust him to accept that no. If at any point I say no and I have a reason to fear actual harm - not just him leaving, since I have no right to his presence any more than he has right to sex from me - then yes that consent would, imo, become invalidated. Fear of abuse, losing your job, public humiliation, etc certainly invalidates consent.

Losing the relationship would suck, but hurting myself would suck more in the long run, so if sex ever becomes an issue beyond annoying it is my responsibility to say so.

But, yes, of course compromise should be done out of mutual respect and love. One would hope anyone does something for their partner out of wanting to make them happy, not just feeling that they can't live without someone to the point the fear of losing that someone makes them do something harmful to them. And one would hope a person that knew their partner was hurting themselves to say yes to something out of fear of losing them would not accept that yes.

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Compromise means that both partners agree to a rule or set of rules. "I will/won't do this and you will/won't do that."

That's all it is. It doesn't mean mutual love, respect, kindness, or any other specific emotion or attitude. It is simply compromise.

When you're talking about an agreement between two parties as far as action (and compromise always concerns action), feelings cannot be expected or guaranteed.

That's especially true, I think, when it concerns sex. The sexual partner may compromise to not as much sex as they want, but they cannot guarantee they won't want more sex. The asexual partner may compromise that they will have some sex, or only certain kinds of sex, but they can't guarantee that they will actually want that sex. Expecting compromise to include those idealized feelings is very unrealistic.

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One does not need to never want more sex or to ever want the sex for mutual respect and caring to come into play with the compromise. I agree to sex because 1) it doesn't hurt me 2) I love my partner 3) I respect his need for something I do not understand. He agrees to less sex because he 1) Still gets his minimums 2) Loves me 3) Respects that my feelings for sex are who I am and to push more would harm me.

Yes you can have compromise without respect or love. But, a healthy compromise without either sounds pretty difficult to reach.

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I think I agree with Sally on this point. It's played out that way in my relationship. It doesn't mean we don't love or respect each other but honestly, when it comes to the sexual compromise part of our relationship we have both had difficulties.

He can no longer feign enthusiasm and from the very beginning of the compromise, I complained about it not being enough (frequency wise). Well, now my previous complaints are rather moot since the compromise has fallen to the wayside.

I think many of us struggle with what Sally is talking about. In my case, my husband gradually got to the point where he admitted that without desire for the act he couldn't bring himself to do it (he began giving reasons for skipping a month, then two months, etc.). He has also said we will get back to some kind of compromise...but I honestly can't imagine how at this point. For me, I had always considered sex something people mutually enjoyed and shared together and even though his prior show of love by accommodating me with sex was acceptable, I increasingly felt it was just for my physical satisfaction and that kind of ruined it. It even became less and less physically satisfying.

What Sally said about hopes or expectations for certain feelings to be included in the agreed upon compromise is very true for me...they aren't realistic. The sexual partner cannot expect feelings of desire for sex (this often includes enthusiasm) from the asexual partner and the asexual partner can't expect that their sexual partner won't want more from the agreed upon compromise.

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What Sally said about hopes or expectations for certain feelings to be included in the agreed upon compromise is very true for me...they aren't realistic. The sexual partner cannot expect feelings of desire for sex (this often includes enthusiasm) from the asexual partner and the asexual partner can't expect that their sexual partner won't want more from the agreed upon compromise.

I'd go beyond that. IMO, except for the utmost basic expectation of respect for each other as individuals, expectations of any kind at all are a hindrance to a relationship. I've found it best not to expect anything, and instead deal with what's actually there in the here and now.

Life has that uncomfy tendency to always be more complex than you expected, especially the moment other human beings get involved... ;)

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NoLongerActive1234

I agree that willing sexual compromise is not abuse. If the asexual person in a relationship feels okay with having sex (even if they do not feel sexual attraction/may not even feel a need for sex) and they are indifferent about having sex with their partner and wants to please their partner by doing something they do not mind doing then go ahead.

However if the asexual person would feel bad/hurt/disgusted, repulsed..etc (insert negative feelings) by having sex then I would not recommend compromicing! No one should have to do something like that if it is harmful to them.

When it comes to what is considered to be emotional blackmail, to me it really does depend on the context; the people involved, how they communicate etc.

The "Fuck me or fuck off" phrase I find to be a very horrible way of expressing oneself and I don't understand why anyone would speak like that to someone that they care for. Those words could be part of an emotional blackmail depending on what is said after/before, the relationship dynamic, how the person saying it is acting and so on.

Also @AGEmily93 If I have not misinterpreted your posts in this thread it seems to me that you have been the victim of emotional abuse and have been pressured into having sex when you did not want to and that it has caused you great pain. If this is the case then I want to say I am truly sorry that you've had to go through something like that! I really do sympathize with you, being treated like that is not right! I wish you nothing but the very best. :)

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I compromise with my boyfriend about sex. That involved my boyfriend and I having many discussions about what we both think is acceptable on our end and what isn't. At the beginning of the compromise talk, I was okay will only a few times a month and he was fine with it (it helps that neither of us had our 'sexual debut' before the relationship and were relatively inexperienced). As I got more comfortable with him and comfortable with sex, I let it increase. It didn't bother me any, and we were working on ways to make it less boring (to me, sex is like folding laundry: I don't want to do it because it's just so dull, neither bring me harm in any way). Sex everyday is still off the table, and will stay that way considering my boyfriend doesn't want it every day anyways. A little experiment here and there certainly makes it more interesting and games make sex more involving of me. But, my boyfriend also understands that I don't feel the same way about sexual intimacy as he does, and I never will.

It takes communication. My boyfriend is not going to know what makes me uncomfortable unless I say so. I'm not going to know what makes him uncomfortable unless he says so.

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