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Iloveyou0410

sick of being the only one

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Down in Texas

Expectations. I was thinking today that maybe one of the keys may be expectations. Lady Girl said something about it a couple of times. I'm thinking that if I change my expectations....somehow to where I actually believe them...then maybe that will help. I used to love playing softball. I thought I would never stop playing until I was dead. When the aches and pains crept in as I got older, playing the game was no longer worth it. My expectations changed and that was okay.

I was also thinking that I need to catch myself as soon as I start thinking or feeling negative and sad. And then change them somehow. Last year I went to the dentist because I thought I had a tooth problem. My dentist found nothing wrong but said my teeth must be sensitive and that I should brush softly and use sensitive toothpaste. The nurse then told me that grinding your teeth can cause sensitive teeth. Well, I didn't grind my teeth. About two months later I caught myself clenching my teeth. I discovered I clench my teeth when I'm tense. Now I try to catch myself when I'm doing it and I make an effort to stop. Now my teeth feel better.

My comparisons aren't on par with love and marriage but anything that might help is worth a try. If we choose to stay with our spouses we must keep trying. I might except being miserable half the time but I cannot ask my wife to do the same. Her happiness is directly related to my happiness...and vice versa.

I understand what you are saying and the HURT is not what it use to be. And after years I have learned to not expect the things I once did thanks to AVEN.

The one main point I want to get through is even though I have voiced MY disappointments I HAVE ALWAYS strived to make life the best I can for my partner. It is only at times that the emotional pain rears its ugly head, When my partner starts off great and all of a sudden things go South.Then no matter what I do trying all the tricks I have learned of his likes and dislikes though the years and none work. It is then that the pain rains down and the BLUES set in.

Since finding AVEN I no longer expect what I use to think was a normal response. AVEN has shown me that the problem was not mine which was a great relief. And it has taught me that my husbands response was also a NORMAL response. However it took away the HOPE that things would someday get better. I now know that the BEST has been and will forever now live on only in MEMORIES.

That does not mean that my LOVE for my partner is over or even less than before its not. You can not live with someone for that many years and not still LOVE them. The memories still remain and has grown through the Good and the Bad.

I do not start every day with regrets. I live each day for what it is and try to make it the best it can for both of us. Some days are better than others. Some are still very good.

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Percivel

If it helps...know that we are with you when the tears come.

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Iloveyou0410

I don't mind at all! This is a tough question though and I've been thinking about it for a couple days.

It's difficult for me to determine what is the hardest part. The thoughts and feelings I experience often seem to blend together making it hard to separate them and identify them. They are like similar atoms that join together and make a whole new compound. Sorry about the analogy but I'm a substitute teacher and recently taught science...that was the first thing to come to mind.

I experience most of the same things today as when I did before I learned about asexuality three years ago. The intensity is a bit less now, however. The thoughts and feelings of isolation, rejection and loneliness were extreme before...now they're just bad. I no longer blame my wife or myself for our difficulties...not that much anyway. Understanding what we're dealing with has helped me but I still feel I have a long journey ahead. The permanency of our situation is daunting and I'm still trying to accept it.

My sex drive doesn't seem to play a dominant role as I've had to subdue it over the years out of self preservation. At least, I don't think it does. The sex we have is poor in quality and intimacy...understandingly so. I'm still trying to accept that. It does keep me going, however, and helps keep me loving.

Accepting the lack of intimacy (as I know it, want it, need it) is very difficult. Not having an intimate relationship with my "soul mate" is still extremely frustrating. Some of this is due to our different personalities and not our mixed relationship, however.

Hiding my thoughts and feelings from my wife is very hard, too. I don't want to make her feel further anxiety, guilt or get depressed so I try to be as cheery as I can.

I can't determine what is the hardest because all those thoughts and feelings get together and team up on me. After some sort of sex, I'm good for a few days. Then it goes down hill rather fast. Within a week I'm all depressed, frustrated and I feel miserable. I try very hard to control it and keep those thoughts and feelings at bay but I can only hold them off for so long. That is what I work on the most. I guess that is the hardest part...trying to keep from letting my conglomerate of thoughts and feelings get the best of me. It's a daily battle. I win some...and I lose some. Perhaps dividing and conquering might be the best approach? Identify what I'm feeling and thinking and then deal with each one separately.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

I forgot to mention self-pity. That's mixed in there too and causes a lot of problems for me...but not as much as it used to.

do you do anything to help when you feel down about this stuff? are sex isnt poor. but for her its just sex nothing more. and it confuses me so bad that when we first started datng she lived along ways away from me so we taked through texting and emial and calls. and we would ium have "sex" through email and texting..alot. and she told me that thats how you show you love some one. and when she moved and we had sex so much for the first year. then for the next six months it was going down once a day..once every other day.. once a week to once every other week to once a month. she just started trying again and im over the moon by it. but i am alos really scared of getting hurt because the first time she didnt even last one month and he had to "intamcy" days and most weeks i was lucky to get both days.and when she called it off finaly i was deavstated.

As another sexual I would like to also answer your question.

For me it can be answered with one word that covers so very much and such depth of feeling, LONELINESS.

There are so many things that fall within this one word.

The lack of having the ONE person that I expected to find within my MARRIAGE. The one person that would always be MY SAFE PLACE to fall. The person I could tell anything to, the deep desires of the heart. The simple things that can only be shared between you and your spouse.

The joy of the knowledge of your first child, the sharing of all the behind the scene joys to have my husband want to touch and feel the movement of our child, the sharing of joy at that child's birth, the joy of having that child home. Just the proud demeaner of protection of me and his child when out in public. He wanted our children and it was his idea to have the second pregnancy so soon. However at their birth he goes home to express his feelings on a tape recorder while getting drunk rather than sharing or caring for me. I was in the hospital hemorrhaging. He showed NO concern for me after a difficult delivery he was totally into his own personal celebration, he simply DOES NOT know how to share his feelings.

As our children grew he was uncomfortable kissing me. He would jump away from me as if we had been doing something wrong when one of our children would walk in while he kissed me when he got home from work. We were both fully clothed and often I was cooking in the kitchen. ( it was never inappropriate or private sharing in front of our children or anyone else).

There are times in life that you want to share both joy and sorry. Even the worrying over a child. (Our only son spent the first ten days in a NICU) this was the child he wanted from the first try HIS SON. Yet he shared none of his fears with me. Our baby was in one hospital while I was in another. He came to see me twice and never called me to let me know what was going on with our child. He was with our child. Our baby had a hole in his lung and had to have a chest tube put in just minutes after his birth. It would have been great to have had him to call me with some form of information on our child. The not knowing what was going on and not being able to be there is very hard on a new mother while her hormones are still running wild just after the birth.

There are so many both ups and downs in a marriage when there is only one person that you can share what is happening in your life. Only one person you want to turn to. Yet that person CANNOT share their emotions. They hold them all in and when I would try to share my down times I am faced with anger. The anger he felt for the situation or the person that caused the problem. I then had to tryi to calm him down when all I really wanted was for him to listen, most of the time I had already solved the problem and just wanted to be able to vent. I quickly learned not to share to hold it all in because it was not worth dealing with his reactions.

As time in the marriage went from one year to the next you start to learn to internalize all of you hurt and disappointments. After years of unresolved hurts and lack of sharing it breaks down the elements of a relationship and turns it into a relationship of a co-inhabitant. I did not marry just to have a ROOM MATE I married to have a PARTNER.

As you can tell from most of the above it is not all about sex it is about closeness.

We have been married now for 40+ years but I did not know about asexuality until two years ago. Finding this site has been both a blessing and a curse.

im really sorry about your baby, i couldn't imagine going through that. we both want to have kids. me more then her. but i dont think i would have that problem. though if i did i don't think i could handle it half as well as you did. you sound like a very strong woman. but we do have a small problem with closeness. but she said last night that she didnt want to lose are marriage over this. but thoese feeling you have i dont think i could it for 40 years with out her trying hard. i dont know if your husband ever tired.

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Percivel

I'm still trying to find out things that work..make the sadness and pain go away... when I'm in the dumper. I'm currently trying to catch myself when I start feeling this way. Then I'm trying to identify specifically exactly what I'm feeling and thinking and why. I then try to isolate each feeling/thought and try to rationalize why I shouldn't feel that way. And then talk myself into the opposite thought/feeling and try to think about the good things in my wife. I'm still trying this to see if it helps. I'm hopeful. Other things I try to do is distraction and keeping busy. Coming to AVEN sometimes helps. I turn to my faith as well. This has helped me the most.

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Lady Girl

I personally think it's easier to decide what to think than it is how to feel. It seems really hard to control feelings but a person seems to have more of a choice when it comes to thoughts. Sometimes it's rather easy to think to myself that I have reason not to feel so bad and I snap out of it almost right away, other times it doesn't do any good and then I try to think "I hope this sad/upset feeling isn't long lasting." I don't want to be controlled by negative feelings and I don't want them driving me to say and do hurtful things that I will later regret.

I think expecting to be miserable half the time is way too much Percivel...I noticed you mentioned that earlier. It doesn't seem healthy for you or your relationship. I know a person often can't help how they feel, but that seems like an awful lot of misery when a relationship really should be primarily a positive overall experience.

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Down in Texas

Lady, that all sounds well and good but I have never been able to control the thoughts that run through my head, not even when I was young and in elementary school. For years I struggled with feelings of insecurity and lack of self-esteem. The one thing I thought I could be good at would be being a wife and a mother. So that is what I set out to do and did to the best of my ability.

As years went by and as I began to question my life as a wife, expecting to have had a closer sexual and emotional bond with the one person that professed to LOVE me so much, yet my expectations were not met. However, my husband was completely happy with our life. I gave him all he ever wanted or needed and he soaked up my attention and affection both (nonsexual) and what little sexual he would consent to. The loneliness began then, so many years ago when I began to question what I was not doing right.

Now as time and years have taken its tow on me and after years of trying to improve our connection both sexually and emotionally I find I have less and less to work with. I have used all the tricks I learned through the years, that looking back were the good years, would turn him on or make him happy. They use to work yet they no longer did. The final blow was the knowledge of Asexuality. Yes, I know it answered so many questions and NO I do not blame MY HUSBAND any longer. I now understand what I lived with for years and the knowledge that the lack of closeness was neither my fault nor his.

It was great finding out about Asexuality and finding AVEN. It answered so many unanswered questions that had lingered for years. Yet so many years went by before I found out about asexuality and all those years have history that cannot be erased from our lives and nothing changes what has happened in the past and what now is. Life has not changed for the better since I found AVEN it has only explained it and things only seem for me as if we are further and further apart and that he now has an excuse for his behavior. Yet, as hard as I try to except what is, the less I seem to find for myself. AVEN took away the HOPE that had been there, it did answer all the WHY’S. What remains is where do we go from here? So we go forward one day at a time sometimes one minute at a time.

I had always hoped that as we got older that the connection would become stronger between us but it’s not. He is completely content being alone with what he has set up to occupy his time once he retires. I am sure that it will work for him as long as he has his hobbies to occupy his time and as long as the money will both fund his hobby and pay the bills… It is the period of him being home and not having anything to do that worries me. We have very little in common anymore and will have even less money to do the few we shared once he retires…

I had hoped that as we got older we would be drawn to each other. However, he is content alone whereas I need companionship. I have gone years without someone while he filled his days with his work and his free time with his hobbies. I have for years been the “wife, mother now grandmother and caretaker” and I don’t see things getting any better. All I see is more work ahead for me in trying to keep him happy and keep up with everyone’s needs. But who will keep me happy and see to my needs? He has no clue how to read me or know what I need and is very uncomfortable sharing or dealing with emotions both mine and his own.

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sunmarsh

I applaud everyone in this thread for caring so much for their partners that they have come here to seek help. I hope that we have provided some consolation and understanding, although as Down in Texas has noted this knowledge can be a double-edged sword.

One thing that I wanted to say in reference to Percivel's experiences- I think that one thing that could help in your relationship is being more open with your feelings. If you're hurting and hiding it, how can you expect your partner to know to comfort you? I know that you are only thinking of her feelings, and don't want her to feel bad about herself... but your feelings are just as important as hers. I think that if you can turn her sexuality into a positive, if you can say to her that you love and accept her completely regardless of her aceness and that you always will, then it doesn't have to be something she is ashamed of. Of course, you need to reach a point where you can sincerely say this. It will take time to truly be 'at peace' with this. And of course, there will probably always be some hurt... but you have to figure out how to deal with it, and I see you're going through that process now. Maybe there is something (non-sexual) that she can do that will make you feel better? Perhaps some other kinds of affection/intimacy.

In regards to Down in Texas's experiences, I wanted to note that our emotions are connected to memories in the brain. If one experiences a strong emotion we will remember the events surrounding that emotion. It was very interesting to me to read that you remembered vividly each sexual encounter. The fact that your husband did not remember much of anything I think shows just how differently these events are perceived. I know that when I've been involved in sexual experiences there were some moments that were physically pleasurable, but the act itself felt emotionally void. I didn't feel any closer to my partner. I knew and saw that there was something driving his actions... (was it lust, I don't know) that I did not have. I could fake it, I knew what would make things pleasurable for him, and that could even make it a bit more enjoyable for me, but I usually ended up feeling bored and physically tired... So, I guess what I'm saying is that just because your husband does not remember these things, it's not because he doesn't care about you, but it's because he wasn't feeling what you felt in that moment, that moment doesn't stand out for him. In regards to other moments he fails to remember, I have no 'excuses'. ;P

I know this has already been discussed, but I also wanted to talk about the feelings of the original poster Iloveyou0410, who felt that despite everything she was doing, their partner was not reciprocating, was not trying as hard, especially when it came to sexual intimacy. I'd like to present the following analogy: Think of sex as you favorite food. For your asexual partner, this food is either 'ok' or 'bad'... they might hate it or have real trouble eating it. When you expect sexual intimacy from your partner AND enthusiasm, on a regular basis, you're expecting them to do something comparable to eating this dish. And they have to LIKE it; they have to pretend they want it. They have to compliment you on its preparation, or even, prepare it themselves and pretend that they prepared it because THEY wanted to eat it and not for you. They are expected to do this as often as multiple times a week... and imagine if this is a dish they can't stand. That this may be a dish that may make them want to vomit. And they have to eat it with a smile on their face and laugh as they have a great dinner conversation with you. How could someone do this or expect their partner to do this (imagine eating something gross like raw cow brain...)? How could someone even be skilled enough to pull off the act of convincingly enjoying this food that they may dislike? When you ask for 'good' sex, you're asking them to feel things they can't feel, to fake it... and at that point- is it even a 'real' or genuine experience? Or is it just some fantasy they're creating for you?

One last thing I wanted to throw out there is the idea of love styles. I think that reading about these can help one to understand their partner's actions better and know that they have a different way of thinking/going about love.

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Lady Girl

Lady, that all sounds well and good but I have never been able to control the thoughts that run through my head, not even when I was young and in elementary school. For years I struggled with feelings of insecurity and lack of self-esteem.

It's not something that just sounds well and good, it's me sharing part of my personal experience in this forum. Thoughts are different than feelings and it's important to realize that, especially for me. How I think about things has changed some of my feelings over time.

An example of the difference between thoughts and related feelings can be seen in math: you have to think to solve the problem, but the feeling that goes with it may vary. Some people have good feelings when they arrive at the answer, others might be neutral, and sometimes people feel upset if they can't get it right.

I had some issues with self-esteem in high school (not grade school). I felt very upset most of the time and cried a lot, but my mom told me some things to think about to get through it. Thinking about the things she told me didn't erase my hurt feelings, but it helped me feel a little better.

I don't expect that you should use thoughts to better your feelings Down. But like you, I share my personal experience here because sometimes it's therapeutic in itself, and it might help the random person who might have a similar experience as me. I'm sorry you and your husband haven't grown closer over the years. We both have different stories to tell...some people might relate better to yours and some might relate to mine.

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Serran

Sorry if this is coming across as particularly harsh, its just, you can't attack an asexual for not enjoying sex, the same as you cant attack a straight man or woman for not enjoying gay sex the same way a gay individual would.

This comparison isn't accurate for all asexuals. My husband isn't interested in having sex and has no desire for sexual interactions, however, I have asked him if this comparison describes his feelings and he said it does not. Some asexual people feel neutral about it all...they don't all have a fear of it nor are they repulsed. I think romantic orientation is another reason some asexuals are okay with a sexual compromise for their partners.

The most accurate description for him is that he's not going to enjoy sex in the same way sexual people do.

Lady,

In light of your comment, I have a question for you. It sounds like your husband is not sex repulsed...and may be "neutral". And yet, you have stated in other posts that you are resigning to the fact that you may never have sex again because your compromise seems to have dissolved. If sex doesn't repulse him, why is it so difficult for him to compromise with you?

I know, old post, but I wanted to give my perspective on this issue being an asexual that can find sex difficult at times, even though I am not repulsed.

For me, sex is mostly neutral. But, like with ANY activity, if you have to do it all the time and you don't like it, it can become tiresome. You wouldn't want to watch the same boring movie multiple times a week. You wouldn't want to play the same boring video game multiple times a week. You wouldn't want to go to the same boring job if you had a choice. Having to repeatedly do the same activity over and over and over when you don't enjoy it, don't need it and have no desire to do it is taxing. And as the years roll by, I do find it harder and harder to keep doing it. I am at the point before sex sometimes I go into the bathroom and take a few deep breaths and remind myself this is something my partner needs so that I can come at it without seeming like I have that "Monday morning after a 3 day weekend" feeling towards it (you know, when you wish it was still the weekend and you were still at the beach instead of sitting at your desk).

(Note: That is how I feel and using "you" in the generic sense, others will feel differently of course)

I know mixed relationships are difficult for sexuals and asexuals alike. It is proof you care about your partners that you are here trying to find a way to make it work. :cake: to you all

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Down in Texas

Lady, that all sounds well and good but I have never been able to control the thoughts that run through my head, not even when I was young and in elementary school. For years I struggled with feelings of insecurity and lack of self-esteem.

It's not something that just sounds well and good, it's me sharing part of my personal experience in this forum. Thoughts are different than feelings and it's important to realize that, especially for me. How I think about things has changed some of my feelings over time.

An example of the difference between thoughts and related feelings can be seen in math: you have to think to solve the problem, but the feeling that goes with it may vary. Some people have good feelings when they arrive at the answer, others might be neutral, and sometimes people feel upset if they can't get it right.

I had some issues with self-esteem in high school (not grade school). I felt very upset most of the time and cried a lot, but my mom told me some things to think about to get through it. Thinking about the things she told me didn't erase my hurt feelings, but it helped me feel a little better.

I don't expect that you should use thoughts to better your feelings Down. But like you, I share my personal experience here because sometimes it's therapeutic in itself, and it might help the random person who might have a similar experience as me. I'm sorry you and your husband haven't grown closer over the years. We both have different stories to tell...some people might relate better to yours and some might relate to mine.

I am sorry Lady apparently I did not word my reply properly. I did not mean to say you have no right to your technic of handling your feeling or thoughts I was just trying to express that it does not work that way for me. I know that EVERYONE deals with things differently and I am VERY glad that you and your husband are able to have the closeness I don't. I meant you no disrespect.

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Percivel

I applaud everyone in this thread for caring so much for their partners that they have come here to seek help. I hope that we have provided some consolation and understanding, although as Down in Texas has noted this knowledge can be a double-edged sword.

One thing that I wanted to say in reference to Percivel's experiences- I think that one thing that could help in your relationship is being more open with your feelings. If you're hurting and hiding it, how can you expect your partner to know to comfort you? I know that you are only thinking of her feelings, and don't want her to feel bad about herself... but your feelings are just as important as hers. I think that if you can turn her sexuality into a positive, if you can say to her that you love and accept her completely regardless of her aceness and that you always will, then it doesn't have to be something she is ashamed of. Of course, you need to reach a point where you can sincerely say this. It will take time to truly be 'at peace' with this. And of course, there will probably always be some hurt... but you have to figure out how to deal with it, and I see you're going through that process now. Maybe there is something (non-sexual) that she can do that will make you feel better? Perhaps some other kinds of affection/intimacy.

In regards to Down in Texas's experiences, I wanted to note that our emotions are connected to memories in the brain. If one experiences a strong emotion we will remember the events surrounding that emotion. It was very interesting to me to read that you remembered vividly each sexual encounter. The fact that your husband did not remember much of anything I think shows just how differently these events are perceived. I know that when I've been involved in sexual experiences there were some moments that were physically pleasurable, but the act itself felt emotionally void. I didn't feel any closer to my partner. I knew and saw that there was something driving his actions... (was it lust, I don't know) that I did not have. I could fake it, I knew what would make things pleasurable for him, and that could even make it a bit more enjoyable for me, but I usually ended up feeling bored and physically tired... So, I guess what I'm saying is that just because your husband does not remember these things, it's not because he doesn't care about you, but it's because he wasn't feeling what you felt in that moment, that moment doesn't stand out for him. In regards to other moments he fails to remember, I have no 'excuses'. ;P

I know this has already been discussed, but I also wanted to talk about the feelings of the original poster Iloveyou0410, who felt that despite everything she was doing, their partner was not reciprocating, was not trying as hard, especially when it came to sexual intimacy. I'd like to present the following analogy: Think of sex as you favorite food. For your asexual partner, this food is either 'ok' or 'bad'... they might hate it or have real trouble eating it. When you expect sexual intimacy from your partner AND enthusiasm, on a regular basis, you're expecting them to do something comparable to eating this dish. And they have to LIKE it; they have to pretend they want it. They have to compliment you on its preparation, or even, prepare it themselves and pretend that they prepared it because THEY wanted to eat it and not for you. They are expected to do this as often as multiple times a week... and imagine if this is a dish they can't stand. That this may be a dish that may make them want to vomit. And they have to eat it with a smile on their face and laugh as they have a great dinner conversation with you. How could someone do this or expect their partner to do this (imagine eating something gross like raw cow brain...)? How could someone even be skilled enough to pull off the act of convincingly enjoying this food that they may dislike? When you ask for 'good' sex, you're asking them to feel things they can't feel, to fake it... and at that point- is it even a 'real' or genuine experience? Or is it just some fantasy they're creating for you?

One last thing I wanted to throw out there is the idea of love styles. I think that reading about these can help one to understand their partner's actions better and know that they have a different way of thinking/going about love.

Sunmarsh,

This was a great response. Thanks so much for making the effort to make that post. I think what you say is very good advice and I will heed it. I appreciate all the help I can get and posts like yours give me hope! I complain about having to read my wife's mind but I also expect her to read mine. Now that I think of it, I think she rely's on me being open (to a degree) because she has such a hard time doing it. Telling her I love her and accept her completely....with sincerity....I will have to be very convincing. Yes, I like what you said. Thank you

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Lady Girl

I am sorry Lady apparently I did not word my reply properly. I did not mean to say you have no right to your technic of handling your feeling or thoughts I was just trying to express that it does not work that way for me. I know that EVERYONE deals with things differently and I am VERY glad that you and your husband are able to have the closeness I don't. I meant you no disrespect.

I'm also sorry if I came across in a harsh manner. Sometimes I find it difficult to post because I feel that others might think my experience can't possibly be realistic, acceptable, or satisfying. It's hard to convey that some sexual people can live without sex and be happy too.

I spent much of my married life trying to get my sexual way and being very very unhappy with the results. Fot the past two to three years while on AVEN I've tried to listen to asexuals describe their feelings and it's changed the way I think and therefore feel and behave towards my husband. I think I'm happier now because I can enjoy who he is instead of mourn for the person I wanted him to be.

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Sally

Having to repeatedly do the same activity over and over and over when you don't enjoy it, don't need it and have no desire to do it is taxing. And as the years roll by, I do find it harder and harder to keep doing it.

I finally found it so hard to do it after years and years, I actually became somewhat reulsed. It just became almost sickening. Not to long after that, I found AVEN, thank god, and knew what was going on. Then I had to tell my artner.

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*Judy*

This goes out to down in texas: I may need to be hurtfully true about this, but to me you sound broken and depressed. If this relationship hurts you so much, why are you still in it? To me it doesn't sound like you really love him, but some kind like a duty to stay so you don't "fail" in reaching that goal of being a good wife - that's not love in a healthy way, it's more an obligation, something that has to be done at any cost.

This is just what I see reading your posts and if I am wrong about it, feel free to tell and I hope you are not mad at me for sharing my thoughts about you.

In my opinion those people who made you believe that there is nothing else for you in life than being a wife and mother - they ruined your life and part of yourself let them do it, because you really believed what they wanted you to and this is a pity. Maybe you still do believe in it.

You can be more than that, I bet that there still is more to you, something totally independant of your husband or your kids. Don't get me wrong being a mom and a wife can be fullfilling in ones life and I don't want anyone to think, I think bad of good moms and wives, but to me it doesn't seem like you really wanted that to be your goal in life, like you just felt that there wasn't any other choice for you...and to be honest, this thought alone almost makes me cry.

So again, just to explain it, I am from germany and have been raised as an honest but also really direct person, which might hurt people.but that's not my intention. If I sounded rude to you, I am sorry.

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Percivel

I want to thank you all who continue to respond to those of us that are really struggling over a long period but still seek to find our love and happiness. Thanks for not giving up on us but continuing to care. Sometimes things said at the right time are inspiring, hopeful, insightful. Sometimes things need to be repeated. Sometimes things posted can be plain as day but we don't realize them in our fog, but at a certain time it "clicks." Trying to put our puzzle together can be hard and every little piece we find helps...puzzles are always more successful when we work on them with friends.

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Serran

Having to repeatedly do the same activity over and over and over when you don't enjoy it, don't need it and have no desire to do it is taxing. And as the years roll by, I do find it harder and harder to keep doing it.

I finally found it so hard to do it after years and years, I actually became somewhat reulsed. It just became almost sickening. Not to long after that, I found AVEN, thank god, and knew what was going on. Then I had to tell my artner.

I had that issue after five years with my relationship, but finding AVEN and working out a way to have breaks from it helped a lot. I can't say it's going to be something I can do for a life time, I have no idea. I may end up one day just having to stop having sex completely to save my sanity. For now though, breaking it up and knowing when it's coming is making it something I can handle. And not having to pretend I enjoy it helps too. :)

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Sally

. And not having to pretend I enjoy it helps too. :)

That's a really big thing. I had long years of trying to behave as I thought someone should behave (thinking I'd eventually "learn" to like it"). That's what finally shoved me into feeling REALLY bad about it. By the time I found AVEN, I was just really through with trying. Didn't want to deal with it anymore.

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Iron Violet

I fear that sometimes sexual people not only want their asexual partner to compromise (which I consider a legitimate request), but they want a certain amount of enthusiasm too or it's not good enough. I obviously don't like the phrase "table-scrap" sex. It makes me feel like the offering was deemed worthless and relegated to the trash heap because expectations of the sexual person weren't met. I think sexual couples have less than satisfying encounters at times...I wonder if they think it's scrap sex too, maybe they do.

It seems like what Sally says about sex for many mixed couples is true...sex isn't good enough for the sexual partner, they want their asexual partner or spouse to want to have sex with them. That's really the bigger issue sometimes it seems.

This, this, so much this. This is the problem I'm having with my hypersexual husband, whom I love dearly. I love him and so I will have sex with him when he wants. Having sex because of love seems like the right thing to do, from my perspective. But he says, "if you aren't into it, if you don't initiate, if you don't feel like I feel about it, then it isn't the special thing I want and crave. I can't enjoy it then and I wish I hadn't asked."

It drives me crazy and hurts me at the same time, like, my love just isn't enough for him, and I'm inadequate for not wanting it as much as he does.

It's been so painful, for both of us.

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Percivel

Serran, Sally and Iron Violet,

I am guilty of all those things. I, too, have those expectations of my ace. My poor ace! I have heard similar comments on AVEN before. This time, however, they're hitting home for some reason. I will stop expecting and try harder to enjoy and love her for who she is. Thank you all!

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Down in Texas

Since so many other post have been made since I started this one I hesitate to post it but after re-reading it I feel it MAY explain a bit better why I said the things I did. Please know in reading it that I do not mean to harm or hurt anyone by my remarks… I only wish to explain myself and why I made some of the choices I did and why I post what I have posted.

sunmarsh – I know without a doubt that my husband loves me as much as he can possible love another human being. I have never questioned his LOVE for me. I have just struggled with his ability to show it before I found AVEN. What you need to know is that we have been married for 40+ years now and I only found AVEN two years ago, until then I read and searched for some kind of understanding of what was wrong. Everything I had been told, taught or read did not coincide with what was happening in my life since we were both virgins when we married I expected there to be rockets going off the first time we had sex. However it took him three days before he made any move and I don’t think he would have made that move if I had not started to cry and ask him what I had done wrong that he would not touch me. The first sex I thought should have been one of the highest points in my life but it holds a lot of hurt and questions that have finally been answered but it took 38 years before I could finally understand. AND it took finding AVEN. The passion you said was void for you during sex was also void in my husband while he was having sex with me. It was that void that I could feel that made me question what I was doing wrong that did not allow him to enjoy ME or want me more.

I have learned though the help of AVEN that the brains of sexuals and asexuals work differently. The main differences I have noticed with my husband are the things that he is able to remember. He can travel a road once and remember where to turn or where the road will intersect another road and the next time we travel it he can direct me just where and how to go. He can remember things at work that happened years ago during the construction of one of the units that he worked on, including who was there, what kinds of problems happened and what was done to rectify them. But he cannot remember our sexual unions, not even the most pleasurable or memorable. In talking recently the furthest back that he can remember is 5 years ago and there are only two that are on his list of memories and he could not even tell me where or when the second one was only bits and pieces of what took place.

I also have a question for you. Is there anything in your life that is so pleasurable that you can remember the events leading up to it and what happened during that event? For us sexuals, sex can be that event. Yes, there are other events that are just as memorable, like the birth of our children, high points in our children’s lives (first day of school, accomplishments throughout their life, sporting events where they won or lost, their graduation from High School or College, their marriage, the birth of their first child),special times with your mate outside of sex that you share.

As for your analogy for Iloveyou0410, we who have been here on AVEN for a while now have come to realize this. However, we still sometimes question why if they tell us they will do something why is it they can’t carry through with it? Those that have been here longer have come to understand why it is that our mates promise yet doesn’t follow through. Most don’t remember having promised that they will do something and those that do remember don’t remember how to do what they are supposed to do. (At least in my experience with my partner this is what he has told me, he may remember he agreed to sex but does not know how to start it so that it is what he thinks it is that I wanted so rather than do it wrong he simply does not do it. For him it is better to not do it than to do it wrong even though I have told him there is NO WRONG way to LOVE someone)

Judy - Thanks you for caring I too come from Good German blood so my skin is quite thick and you did not hurt me. I was not very good in School and just barely made the grades to graduate I lived 14 miles from any town and was not allowed to attend any of the school activates that most of my classmates participated in. I felt very bad not only due to my low grades, lack of socialization but also my clothes. My mother made all of my clothes and didn’t give me a choice in style she bought and made what she liked not what I would have wanted. My mother was very dominating and I had been forced to do all of the house work, cooking, dishes, laundry, and care of my two youngest brothers (12 and 14 years younger than myself who were just babies then) before homework could be done and lights had to be out by 10. My mother had been sick and discovered I could do it so it was left to me to do. Consequently I did not do very well in school because I was never given the chance to do my homework. I had a very low self-esteem. I had been made fun of in school and was not ask out on dates like my class mates. After I graduated from school I got a job and began to LIVE to some degree. I did not think anyone would want me. I only had one other boyfriend before I met my Husband. My husband professed to LOVE ME and treated me very well the whole time we dated. When my husband professed to love me I figured anyone that claimed to love me that much then life would have to be good. My father and all other men I had been around showed their love openly to their spouses so I had no reason to expect anything different.

My soon to be husband’s Uncle was our Priest and I had known him for years before I met my husband. So when I found out the connection shortly after we began to date, I took his lack of sexual advances as respect. We dated for two years before we were married and there were only a few things that ever made me question anything looking back before we were married, at the time I accepted them for what they were. However, he was like two different people the moment we married. The person I dated for two years was gone and was replaced by someone I didn’t know. Before we were married he was very attentive and we did some pretty heavy PETTING as it was called back then. No clothes came off and the entire hands-on still had clothing between us but he made me believe that he was as sexually charged as I was and he was just waiting for us to be married. Yet once we were married instead of being that sexual person he withdrew and I did not understand why.

I guess you could say that I am still trying to deal with what my head knows but my heart does not feel yet. I know that my husband LOVES me and cuddles are never turned down. We spoon every night going to sleep and always have. He has become comfortable with affection while fully dressed. (Just as before) but once the clothes comes off it is a totally different thing. I do Love my husband but I still long for the comfort he is able to show with his clothes on that he can’t with his clothes off. We live a very harmonious life sex is our only disparity but I feel more like his sister than his wife except we sleep in the same bed and cuddle.

I post what I post not so much because I still hurt so badly (though I do from time to time) but to give others a picture of what MAY be ahead of them or for those that are experiencing the same thing and think they are alone. I do not encourage anyone to leave their marriage that is something only they can know is right or wrong for them. But those that are in mixed relationships that are still dating or living together and not yet married. I want them to know what may be ahead before they commit to something without knowing what may be down the road for them. In most cases if you are not getting what you need or want before you are committed you most likely will not get it later. Usually not always the commitment only allows for the person to become more relaxed in the relationship and the feeling of NEED to please grows further and further apart with time.

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Serran

I have learned though the help of AVEN that the brains of sexuals and asexuals work differently. The main differences I have noticed with my husband are the things that he is able to remember. He can travel a road once and remember where to turn or where the road will intersect another road and the next time we travel it he can direct me just where and how to go. He can remember things at work that happened years ago during the construction of one of the units that he worked on, including who was there, what kinds of problems happened and what was done to rectify them. But he cannot remember our sexual unions, not even the most pleasurable or memorable. In talking recently the furthest back that he can remember is 5 years ago and there are only two that are on his list of memories and he could not even tell me where or when the second one was only bits and pieces of what took place.

Memory is tied to emotion in humans. My Psych professor had a lecture on that in college. The memories we have that are most vivid are the ones we are emotionally anchored in. Sex to me is mostly all the same, with little emotional significance. So, they all sort of blend together. I can commit to memory something the boyfriend likes, but that is like memorizing test answers. To you, it's a very emotional experience it seems and that would make it a lot easier to remember, because it is significant to you. I couldn't tell you much about sex I have had. I can tell you basically when/how often/where because it's pretty much all the same. In our bed, usually and on set days, usually. What happened though? Vague, like asking me what I had for lunch 5 years ago, or what day I did the dishes 5 years ago. Now, ask me what each one of my dogs looked like over my life? That one I can go on for hours about. :) It isn't so much memory works differently, just that different things are important (and no matter how much you want to intellectually care about something, it's hard to emotionally be invested in it if you aren't)

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Sally
Percivel, on 21 Feb 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I, too, have those expectations of my ace. My poor ace!

That is such a sweet comment. :wub::cake:

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Down in Texas

I have learned though the help of AVEN that the brains of sexuals and asexuals work differently. The main differences I have noticed with my husband are the things that he is able to remember. He can travel a road once and remember where to turn or where the road will intersect another road and the next time we travel it he can direct me just where and how to go. He can remember things at work that happened years ago during the construction of one of the units that he worked on, including who was there, what kinds of problems happened and what was done to rectify them. But he cannot remember our sexual unions, not even the most pleasurable or memorable. In talking recently the furthest back that he can remember is 5 years ago and there are only two that are on his list of memories and he could not even tell me where or when the second one was only bits and pieces of what took place.

Memory is tied to emotion in humans. My Psych professor had a lecture on that in college. The memories we have that are most vivid are the ones we are emotionally anchored in. Sex to me is mostly all the same, with little emotional significance. So, they all sort of blend together. I can commit to memory something the boyfriend likes, but that is like memorizing test answers. To you, it's a very emotional experience it seems and that would make it a lot easier to remember, because it is significant to you. I couldn't tell you much about sex I have had. I can tell you basically when/how often/where because it's pretty much all the same. In our bed, usually and on set days, usually. What happened though? Vague, like asking me what I had for lunch 5 years ago, or what day I did the dishes 5 years ago. Now, ask me what each one of my dogs looked like over my life? That one I can go on for hours about. :) It isn't so much memory works differently, just that different things are important (and no matter how much you want to intellectually care about something, it's hard to emotionally be invested in it if you aren't)

You said it better than I could have but it means the same.

Thank you.

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Percivel

So...how do we control our feelings (emotions)? As Lady Girl said, it's easier to control thoughts than emotions. I believe that. But emotions often drive our thoughts. When emotions get the best of you, they seem to take your thoughts with them and it's hard to change them. It seems like you almost have to let the emotions run their course...sometimes that can take a while.

My father taught me that emotions are neither right nor wrong. They just are. They're neutral (morally). They come and they go.

I'm not a "control freak" but I believe having control over ones self is important. When we think of a "person of power" we usually think of a president or a very rich person...someone who has control over other people. I believe a greater power...real power, however, is having control over ones self. I also believe that an even greater power than that is to willingly giving up your power...your will...to someone else. In order for me to fully give up my will to my wife (which I want to do) I need to have control over myself so as not to let my thoughts and feelings control me and my attitude. Does this make sense?

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Lady Girl

It makes sense to me except for the giving up your will part. Your will is always your own...I think it helps you make choices, which is important for every person. You must have it so you can decide how to react to negative emotions that do indeed seem to just come and go (although outside factors can certainly affect them). I personally don't think all emotions are neutral, I think some can be negative or positive depending on the context.

I think if a person thinks about how they behaved and what was wrong with their thoughts during a period of negative emotions they stand a chance of doing better the next time those emotions hit. Negative emotions do invoke wrong thoughts as you mentioned. Like for me, say I am upset because I want sex and I know he really doesn't and it's not going to happen anyway...my thoughts might include "he doesn't really love me" which I know is total bs, but it's a wrong thought that accompanies that unhappy feeling at that time. The thought isn't even true so it's actually wrong. I've reflected on that many a time now and usually dismiss that thought almost immediately. That is one way I have more control over thinking during a sad time because that initial wrong thought leads to more similar wrong thoughts that just keep me feeling bad (the thoughts and the feelings seem to play off each other).

If I voice that wrong thought to Mr. LG and add to it, "maybe I should just leave" (which I know he takes as a threat), now I'm not only letting bad feelings control my thoughts but I'm also allowing it to affect my behavior...which I don't like at all (particularly in this scenario).

I'm still working on these things myself, but some of this is part of my effort to improve myself and my attitude.

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*Judy*

ok, down in texas, thanks for your explanations, you've been through unhealthy things in the past, I see that now and false hopes for your future have been risen. Sometimes I am a little bit thankful for being in my 20s now and to have the opportunity to chose things myself. There can be a small step between giving in to a hope and starting to accept the good sides of a relationship with all of your heart.

Concerning this whole "I want my partner to want it too" - thing: I think is why I am afraid to sleep with my boyfriend. I can bring myself in the mood to do some things, but that doesn't mean that I will like having sex and I am afraid to ruin my relationship: It really breaks my heart to imagine something like it was heaven for him and I was more like: well... So what do we do if it turns out that it is my desire he needs and not "just" sexual activity? thinking about this keeps me awake for hours...please while answering keep in mind that my boyfriend is my one big love...thanks.

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MorganPendragon

I guess my only advice is what you already know.

1. The whole "see my pain" thing isn't helpful. Surely they know your pain, and guilt trips aren't going to cure asexuality, its just going to make sex less frequent and make you both miserable.

2. The whole "I'm trying harder" thing... also not helpful, because both of you are fighting against internal feelings. There's no scoreboard, there's no calibration available to compare how much work it takes to cuddle for one person vs how much work it takes to not have sex for the other. There are no units of measurement.

3. Your partner told you the truth. They have sex to stop you from complaining. You rewarded their truth by attacking them for it. If I were your partner, I wouldn't want to talk to you either, if anything that I say that isn't exactly what you want to hear sends you into a tailspin.

4. Codependence is essentially when you make your partner's actions solely responsible for your feelings. You are the ONLY person who can be responsible for your feelings. Your partner needs to be free to love their rats, and play games, and surf the internet without it being made about you.

5. Stop and take a look at both of you. If you just walked into the scene, would you want to hang out with you right now? What would you think of the relationship dynamic if you met both of you for the first time today?

6. Sounds like your partner is being open about their feelings and offered an open relationship as a pressure release. Barring a sudden change in sexual orientation, what changes would you like to see that you think are possible and practical?

Preach it.

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Valw

Warning: long entry!

I have a rather unsettling suspicion there there is just no good answer to the mixed relationships problem. For myself, I've been married to a sexual for many, many years, ten of which were celibate, at my request. It was a great break for me, but ended up with my husband saying he couldn't take it any more, and even though he loved me, it was just too unbearable - his feelings of not being loved by me. I did and do love him, just not in the way he needed.

Counselling for me didn't help; no traumas or repressions were found; nothing lurking in my past. So what the heck was wrong? Enter AVEN!! (Isn't it time for all therapists to be aware of asexuality?). This site hasn't completely saved the day, but it brought us such understanding, that now we are both looking at 'the problem' rather differently. And I'm celebrating, because my husband has decided not to leave, having realized that it's not that I don't love him, and I am not rejecting him, it's just that I'm asexual.

I think it's still really hard for him to know that sex with me probably won't ever be the big mutual and intimate experience that he craves, but I do think it's a bit easier for him to realize that it's not about me not trying hard enough, or caring enough. Just not made that way!

And hard for me too, because yes, I'll still face the whole 'trying to get in the mood' thing, and hoping not to bruise his feelings, AND trying to look happy and enthusiastic. Oh Serran, I read your entries, and nod my head so often at what you say!

Solutions?: just only know that I want to live and grow old with this good man, so I guess I'll go through with the periodic sex, while holding in my head that I dearly love him, and his feelings and happiness are important to me.

Good luck to all you sexuals, I think aces truly do realize how hard it is for you.

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BlackRose

ok, down in texas, thanks for your explanations, you've been through unhealthy things in the past, I see that now and false hopes for your future have been risen. Sometimes I am a little bit thankful for being in my 20s now and to have the opportunity to chose things myself. There can be a small step between giving in to a hope and starting to accept the good sides of a relationship with all of your heart.

Concerning this whole "I want my partner to want it too" - thing: I think is why I am afraid to sleep with my boyfriend. I can bring myself in the mood to do some things, but that doesn't mean that I will like having sex and I am afraid to ruin my relationship: It really breaks my heart to imagine something like it was heaven for him and I was more like: well... So what do we do if it turns out that it is my desire he needs and not "just" sexual activity? thinking about this keeps me awake for hours...please while answering keep in mind that my boyfriend is my one big love...thanks.

What if it's not your desire he needs? What if he mostly "just" needs sexual activity? For me, as a sexual, my partner's desire isn't that important to me. Everyone is different... talk to him about it. Even if it's not heaven for you, if it's heaven for him, and you're ok with it, that could be a great thing that's just what he needs. Definitely have a conversation with him about it and don't be scared.

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Percivel

It makes sense to me except for the giving up your will part. Your will is always your own...I think it helps you make choices, which is important for every person. You must have it so you can decide how to react to negative emotions that do indeed seem to just come and go (although outside factors can certainly affect them).

Just to clarify Lady, what I mean by "giving up my will to my wife" was...trying to put her wants before mine.

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