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Spock Jr's MOM here. (Gasp!)


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There is one language (The Faroe Islands ring a bell, but I'm not sure) where you call your dog "my dog" and a house "my house". However, for those things that you do not own you have so say "wife my". I presume this also applies to children.

One of my favorite comments is "Your assumptions will always get you in the end.". The thing is that we all analyse situations and make informed choices to avoid problems. However, in all out analyses, there are assumptions. We never think to question these and they get us every time.

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Ah, Mot: I love language differences.

In Algonkin, to say "I love you" to a spouse, you say "I honour dance you". And a marriage/relationship is considered an honour dance, that you walk together, side by side.

None of this "and two shall become one" stuff. That sounds like loving a black hole to me. Or as if "HE" is a paper towel, and "SHE" is a nasty spill to absorb! There is NO sense of "ownership" in an Algonkin relationship. Not even our children are "ours"!

Love,

Mom

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Not even our children are "ours"!

Love,

Mom

I find this intresting Mom.

Who do they belong to?

Anyone? Themsleves?

I have coffee.....

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Just while Mom is answering I will interject!

Children belong to God I believe or to "the Universe" depending on how you see it. As such they are "on loan" to their parents and thus not owned at all. They are their own people.

This also allows for a parent to enable a child to become their own person rather than a carbon copy of themselves, which is very difficult for some parents to do, and something my Mum didn't quite manage...even tho I know she did her best. It took me a complete breakdown before I slowly managed to become myself.

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*Gulp. Gulp.* Thanks Amcan... *Gulp. Sip. Sip.*

The kids? They are INDIVIDUALS, born with as much FREE WILL as thee and me. Our job as adults is to help them uncover what their free will wants.

People think Native kids are "left to run wild", because we don't constrain them, (except if they are on the brink of physically hurting themselves).

But, from our vantage point, we see "eurocentricallly raised" kids, (NOTE: I hate these terms, because they sound like reverse racism) as horribly stifled, with all those "don't" and "shouldn't" commands. And "Because I said so's!"

And being grounded? :shock: To us, that's solitary confinement!

We talk to our kids. Never ever telling them what to do. But by asking questions, so that they discover the answer for themselves.

Say, a kid throws a baseball through a neighbour's window. We will ask them for 7 solutions that would prevent that from happening in the future. And we keep asking until they come up with solutions ON THEIR OWN, like "We could play a different game. Or we could play elsewhere. Or we could not throw so hard. Or.. Or...

Then we move on to "Now how can we repair the harm that has come to Mr. Brown's house?" "Well, we could pay for it out of our allowance." Or "We could mow his lawn for the rest of the summer." Or, "We could open a lemonade stand, and give him the money we make"... Or... Or...

That way, when you don't give the kid all the answers as if they were punishments, they grow up repairing their own mistakes, and deciding on their own, how they could be more responsible in the future.

Blame and punishment, and orders and commands, and restraints and prohibitions are all anathema to us. Because they all rob a child of their sacred FREE WILL.

It's hard for someone who hasn't grown up this way, to understand.

But hey, look at SpockJr. I've never been called from the police station. I've never seen him drink and drive. He's never done drugs. He always had top marks in school. He's never late for work. His bills are all paid on time.

Yet he was NEVER ever grounded!

So, it can't be all that an unworkable system, eh? He's the most mature and responsible 21 year old I see around!

Love,

Mom

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*Gulp. Gulp.* Thanks Amcan... *Gulp. Sip. Sip.*

The kids? They are INDIVIDUALS, born with as much FREE WILL as thee and me. Our job as adults is to help them uncover what their free will wants.

People think Native kids are "left to run wild", because we don't constrain them, (except if they are on the brink of physically hurting themselves).

But, from our vantage point, we see "eurocentricallly raised" kids, (NOTE: I hate these terms, because they sound like reverse racism) as horribly stifled, with all those "don't" and "shouldn't" commands. And "Because I said so's!"

And being grounded? :shock: To us, that's solitary confinement!

We talk to our kids. Never ever telling them what to do. But by asking questions, so that they discover the answer for themselves.

Say, a kid throws a baseball through a neighbour's window. We will ask them for 7 solutions that would prevent that from happening in the future. And we keep asking until they come up with solutions ON THEIR OWN, like "We could play a different game. Or we could play elsewhere. Or we could not throw so hard. Or.. Or...

Then we move on to "Now how can we repair the harm that has come to Mr. Brown's house?" "Well, we could pay for it out of our allowance." Or "We could mow his lawn for the rest of the summer." Or, "We could open a lemonade stand, and give him the money we make"... Or... Or...

That way, when you don't give the kid all the answers as if they were punishments, they grow up repairing their own mistakes, and deciding on their own, how they could be more responsible in the future.

Blame and punishment, and orders and commands, and restraints and prohibitions are all anathema to us. Because they all rob a child of their sacred FREE WILL.

It's hard for someone who hasn't grown up this way, to understand.

But hey, look at SpockJr. I've never been called from the police station. I've never seen him drink and drive. He's never done drugs. He always had top marks in school. He's never late for work. His bills are all paid on time.

Yet he was NEVER ever grounded!

So, it can't be all that an unworkable system, eh? He's the most mature and responsible 21 year old I see around!

Love,

Mom

Your response was very intersting MOm and your point is well made, the results speak for themsleves.

*pours more coffee*

I think it's intresting to bring it back to free will.

Do we all belong to our free will? Or do we want to belong to the more rigidness of socity's rules.

Is there a battle between free will and fitting in?

Sorry if that makes no sense..I'm tired....

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It makes sense, sweetie.

(Coffee is VERY appreciated today, hon!)

Your free will is your essence. Kind of like your soul, or spirit. It isn't something anyone is owned by. It is just YOU; who you are; what makes you human (or dehumanized).

Free Will is a fragile and sacred thing. It is very easy to wound, or steal a person's free will.

Especially a child's...

Which is why being a parent, is such a huge responsibility. The possibility of screwing up are sooooooo many! But hopefully in the end, you can look at your child, and TRY to convince yourself, that your screwups were outweighed by what you did right.

*Mom stares at her son, with tremendous pride :!: *

Love,

Mom

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Ah that's very intresting Mom nad it's a beautiful way to look at to.

And I'm not surprised you are prpud of your son.

You have every right to be.

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Thanks for the interesting glass-related links - apologies for the delayed response, my only access to the interweb is this 'puter at work...!

The dichrioc glass looks fascinating and looks as if it's some kind of surface effect that wouldn't survive hot working, yet obviously does.

The $600 per square inch dichrioc must be seriously impressive to look at. I'd be frightened to work it - make a mistake and it's somewhat expensive...

I love stained glass, too. I have a few small pieces balanced in the gothic windows of my house (part of a converted chapel).

I can see why you like Uroboros' catalogue - think of a colour and they not only do it, but variations as well - amazing!

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Sorry, SMMG, I just found your response.

Not all dichroic glass is that expensive. Some of it is pretty reasonably priced, although it's certainly more costly than, say cathedral glass.

You should expand away from scientific glasswork. Set your creative side FREE...

Dichroic glass is great for flamework. And it's fusible, for kiln work. Makes INCREDIBLE jewellry. It's a very versatile form of glass!

Here's a sample of an artist's flamework, who loves dichroic glass.

http://www.mlfieldson.com/lampwork.html

Love,

Mom

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Popping by with coffee Mom.

Just wondering what is art?

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*Mom tackles Amcan around the knees after carefully placing the coffee on a table.*

*Amcan says "What's that for? Did I do something wrong?"* :shock:

*Mom says "NAW! It's just that I love enquiring minds, and that is such a succinct but HUGE question.*

*Mom ponders a bit, muttering "Damn that's a good question."*

*Then she takes a stab at an answer...*

I think that just as children are something that is created from the body, and ideas are creations of the mind, art is something that is given birth to, from the soul.

*Mom goes back to thinking "Geez, I love people who make ME think!*

Love,

Mom

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:lol:

Great answer Mom!

It sums it up.

I always think it's a bit crazy when we go about pointing at stuff going is that art?

Art is all in the mind so it's oerception.

Glad you liked the question.

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Ooh, Spockie's gonna kill me, but...

When he was about 5 years old, we went to an art gallery for the whole day. Floors and floors of art...

We get to the modern art display. The was a bicycle wheel glued to a barstool. And a shovel leaning against a wall. And (I can still see Spockie's eyes :shock: ) a toilet on the ceiling!

And there were a bunch of pretentious art lovers, standing around looking very bored, and expounding upon "... Oh yes, and the esthetic values of the artitste's message, that is lost on the hoi polloi yada, yada, yada..."

Spockie asked somebody "Why's that toilet on the ceiling?" And they answered "Because it is AWRT!"

And Spockie announced to everyone "That's not art. It's just STOOPID." And he walked out. I was laughing my head off, to see all their pretensions burst like a balloon, by a little kid!... POP!

God it was hilarious.

Love,

Mom

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:D

That's a great story!

Personally, I think something has to evoke an instant emotional response for me to consider it art. The toilet on the ceiling would have fit that criterion quite nicely! :lol:

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Spock, that's legendary! :lol:

*goes off laughing to himself*

*gets weird looks from everyone else*

*keeps laughing*

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True story, Spin and Peix!

The artist's name was Marcel Duchamp. He's a blurb on his toilet obsession... And a photo of this "art" that Spockie expounded HIS philosophy upon...at the link! Spockie's ALWAYS called a spade a freakin' shovel!

Duchamp's Urinal Voted Most Influential Piece of Art

In 1917, French artist Marcel Duchamp took a porcelain urinal, signed it "R. Mutt" and called it "The Fountain." He made it part of a New York art exhibition and announced that it was art because he said it was. Now, David Hockney and Charles Saatchi are among 500 British artists, dealers and critics who call it the 20th Century's "most influential" art work. Karen Wright, editor of Britain's Modern Painters magazine, has more on the shocking selection.

http://www.kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/kcrw.pl?sho...tmplt_type=Show

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Also...

Peix's quote: Spock, that's legendary! :lol:

THAT, dear Sir, is the DANGER of mothers!

We Moms know ALL THE LEGENDS, that make up our kids life! Even worse, we make it a point to remember them, and tell them! Much to the chagrin of the kids, who would rather they be forgotten! :mrgreen:

Love,

Mom

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You wish, son...

See our stories, to us as Mom's, portray something incredibly POSITIVE about our kids! Whereas to kids, they just seem like naive moments and mistakes, when they were young.

The "toilet as art" thing? Spockie, you were a man who had the strength of your own convictions, from the git-go. Nothing wishy-washy about your opinions! And you absolutely DO NOT suffer fools lightly!I always knew that, even before you had formed your major philosophies of life!

And THAT is a very positive thing!

Which is the point of my story.

Love,

Mom

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Yep thast was a :lol: and postive story.

I bet a few other people were thinking that when they looked at it but didn't want to say anything.

Oh yes more coffee is available.

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Erh what? So this is why "Mom" is called "Mom".. I've wondered about it and it is even more complicated :mrgreen: So.. wait a minute.. *grasps a concept* there you have two people, our good old Spockie and his Mom. All right, then.

Oh, I am sure you haven't enough of cakes and I have a need to add some more *it always pleases someone to see that even parents participate* So, a :cake: is here.

Nat

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Thanks for the link to Marian Fieldson's site!

She's very creative and talented, especially to essentially teach herself lampworking.

The only jewellery I've made is piercing jewellery for a friend of a friend who's a piercer. She pierced my eyebrow in return!

My creative side is somewhat lacking - better to marry the creative talent of someone like yourself with my technical skills...

This has produced some interesting results when students from the fine arts department want stuff made in glass.

Brian w, peix, Applepie, winter and I all had a good laugh at the "toilet-on-the-ceiling" story when we all met up in London last Saturday - well done, Spock!

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If SpockJr is SpockJr and his Mom is here then she must be SpockSnr. Or Spock. Therefore I shall now call you Spock and nothing else.

And it's a shame I missed this thread entirely. My fault, my fault. Hey, Spock, do you have an instant messenger like Jr? - I'd love to sit down and chat with you sometime ^.^

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I think, given that Spock is a male name, that MrsSpock might be more appropriate!!!

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