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Working Class, Middle Class or Upper Class?


wowmom

  

  1. 1. What are you?

    • Under 18 and financially dependent on a parent/guardian
      27
    • Over 18 and largely financially dependent on a parent/guardian
      47
    • Over 18, working class
      34
    • Over 18, middle class
      26
    • Over 18 upper class
      7
    • Some other radically different financial situation (if you check this one, please explain)
      16

This poll is closed to new votes


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How can you different between classes of people?

Are there some things that are a red flag for "poor"?

What about rich, people? What makes them different from middle class people?

What are the values of the middle class?

What can people expect out of life due to their class?

Do different nations have different ideas about class?

Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

Please help me answer these questions.

One thing to note. If you are a little bit dependent on your parents for things, but over 18, check independent. Dependency would be living at home, having them paying for all your healthcare, car insurance policies, your cellphone bill, and food.(like a minor) Independent would be paying for most of those things by yourself, but maybe once in a while getting into a money situation where you need help.

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are you from the UK by any chance? (don't respond to this if you don't want to of course...) Just wondering, because in my experience, the UK is one of the most class related societies I've lived in. Class still matters in a big way here, either overtly or covertly. I'm always amazed in how many things class still plays a role in some way here, far more so than in any other country I experienced (no offense implied.. I'm in the UK myself!). Do other people have a different/the same experience of class where they live?

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I grew up lower middle class in suburban new jersey. If the median income and cost of living of the town around me had been less inflated I would probably have been considered just plain middle. I chose not to attend college, to work with my hands and body instead. Because of income disparity I have been working poor since I left the nest. I actually do highly skilled labour in the museum industry. Most of my coworkers have a masters degree. I'm a bit of an exception. Twenty years ago I would have been middle class. Instead my yearly income is no different than it was when I was just a retail cashier fifteen years ago. When the minimum wage goes up I will too. I don't think there is a class system here just two strata, rich and not rich. I also don't think my sexuality played a role in my position. There are very few rich folks. Still, i have everything I need, but I don't want or need much.

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SorryNotSorry

Yeah, right... do you really think anyone who's upper class is going to broadcast it on here???

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I grew up lower-middle class in a white suburban neighbourhood. Needless to say, I'm privileged in many ways.

Currently, I am over 18, living on my own (well, with my pets and GF), and both of us are unemployed and living off food bank/donations and my student loans. I'm a full time student. 75% of my student loan goes towards paying the rent, the rest is for pet food and pet supplies and a small amount of human food.

When I am finished school and can get employed (around this time, my GF will be in a paid employment program to overcome the barriers she faces in getting a job), we'll be working class, but no longer under the poverty line which is nice :) I believe we'll be renting for the next decade or two, unless our family can help us out with a down payment on an apartment.

How can you different between classes of people?

I'm not an expert on class so I don't really know. I think the guidelines to class are their annual income, if they own a vehicle, and if they pay a mortgage vs. rent.

Are there some things that are a red flag for "poor"?

Depends on your definition of poor. Do you mean poverty-stricken, or just... poor?

People who go to the food bank, people who pay rent their entire lives, people who receive financial aide from the government, and people who generally make under $20,000 gross annually are poor. The type of job you have can indicate if you are poor, or if you are on disability you are definitely poor (unless you live with someone else who works).

What about rich, people? What makes them different from middle class people?

People who are rich don't worry about paying their mortgage, own multiple new vehicles, generally don't work multiple jobs, might own multiple properties, and have a lot-- A LOT-- of money in the bank, or in investments. They're different from middle class people because they don't have the same financial struggles, they make much more annually, they have regular vacations... when something breaks in their house, it gets fixed immediately. When their vehicle breaks down, they can get it fixed. They might have multiple new vehicles, which is different than middle class owning multiple used vehicles in that the rich don't have a lot to go back and forth with when insurance runs out on one, or when the battery needs to be replaced, etc. They have multiple new vehicles for recreation and enjoyment.

What are the values of the middle class?

I don't know?

What can people expect out of life due to their class?

Your class isn't permanent. Like I said, I grew up lower-middle class and now I'm under the poverty line. I have a friend who grew up poor and is now upper-middle class (borderline rich, I'd say).

But, generally, if you are of a higher class, you can expect to be fed daily, and different types of meals, made from proper ingredients (not out of a box or can). You don't require leftovers to eat the next day. Your post secondary education is paid for by your family (NOTE: mine is paid for, mostly, by my family because my ENTIRE family pitched in-- we really do believe in "it takes a village"). You don't have to wash dishes in the bath tub because you don't have a kitchen. You will have other problems in your life--we all have problems-- but paying the rent ain't one. You have a working washer, dryer, fridge, deep freeze, fancy dishwasher...

If you're poor, you can be expected to wait a lot. You can expect to rely on free food to survive. You can expect to eat the same thing every day for weeks at times. You can expect to not have a lot of sleep. You always know you'll be poor, so spending five dollars here or there on fast food or cigarettes generally isn't a great concern, as these are the only luxuries you have. You often aren't educated in many financial aspects. You probably nail bed sheets to the windows as curtains. Probably don't have a dishwasher (unless it's one that hooks up to your kitchen sink, and that's a luxury) or a deep freeze, but chances are you have a large television and some gaming consoles.

If you're middle class, you can expect to pay the majority of everything. My parents say that countries rest on the middle class's shoulders, or something like that.

Do different nations have different ideas about class?

Yes, definitely.

Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

Absolutely not.

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Not to be rude OP, I'm confused on why this matters?

World economics are changing, and the middle class is shrinking. In similar times, like during the great depression, families and loved ones came together to share resources. I'm just wondering if a shrinking middle class effects asexuals in a different way than most people. Like, do adult asexuals live at home with parents more often? marry for money?or live an impoverished asocial life?

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Not to be rude OP, I'm confused on why this matters?

Well I think that some sociologists look for markers to determine weather certain things are ingrained, like sexuality, or if they are merely signposts of class. Things like the food allergy phenomenon that only really occur in wealthy nations. People who are starving rarely refuse food. (If you suffer from a food allergy please don't take offense, I myself developed an allergy to brazil nuts as I got older). I have just seen these kinds of questions raised by researchers in the past.

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I was previously a factory worker, unemployed right now, under the poverty line, living with my father (retired and under the poverty line) who also was a factory worker, coming from a long line of factory workers.

How can you different between classes of people?

Typically, working class people have an exhausting job, and have financial difficulties at the end of the month even for necessary things (like food and energy). Middle class people work in relatively better conditions (in general, I mean compared with working class where work conditions are almost always terrible), and they don't have difficulties at the end of the month for necessary things, but they can have difficulties to afford a house, a car, and luxury things. Upper class people work in about the same conditions as middle class people, and they don't have any financial difficulties at the end of the month, even to afford luxury things.

Are there some things that are a red flag for "poor"?

At the end of the month, not being able to afford correct food, electricity, heating, tap water... Having to reduce the number of daily meals in order to not have an overdrawn account at the end of the month is obviously an indicator of poverty. As well as having to reduce heating below 18°C / 65°F during the cold season, which is another indicator of poverty too.

What about rich, people? What makes them different from middle class people?

They can afford even luxury things that the middle class can't afford. But actually, from a third world perspective, there is probably no difference at all.

What are the values of the middle class?

Good question. I'm not from the middle class, so I can't really give an accurate answer.

What can people expect out of life due to their class?

Middle class people can expect to try to move to the upper class. For the working class, this is more difficult.

Do different nations have different ideas about class?

Certainly. It depends on how a country is industrialized.

Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

The only impact it could have is if I was sexual with no moral code, I could target only rich men to try to get married with one.

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Yeah, right... do you really think anyone who's upper class is going to broadcast it on here???

why wouldn't they? it's anonymous...

Class is not always a defining indicator of affluence here int he UK though. There are people from a working class background who are very rich and upper class people who are poor... It's as much to do with cultural/family background here, or even more so... Here in the UK, accent and behaviour are more reliable indicators than moiney. I can't see how this is relevant to asexuality though, or at all really. Within each 'class' there are really good people and rotten apples as well. I think being a good person is far more important than anything linked to class. But that's just me...

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Not to be rude OP, I'm confused on why this matters?

Well I think that some sociologists look for markers to determine weather certain things are ingrained, like sexuality, or if they are merely signposts of class. Things like the food allergy phenomenon that only really occur in wealthy nations. People who are starving rarely refuse food. (If you suffer from a food allergy please don't take offense, I myself developed an allergy to brazil nuts as I got older). I have just seen these kinds of questions raised by researchers in the past.

I think people in poor countries get food allergies, they probably just mistake them for something else. Either that, or they believe that indigestion or eczema are the least of their problems when their babies are starving and murdurious gangs on the loose. If you don't have to deal with big problems like that, you can zoom in on smaller health issues and make a big fuss about them. Which is kind of what is happening in the first world.

Then again, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that a diet high in GMOs will result in higher rates of food allergies. Human bodies interpret foreign DNA in foods like corn and soy as dangerous pathogens that must be destroyed. Over time, your body can become so picky about GMO laden foods that it starts viewing all soy and corn (even organic) as dangerous enemy substances, and that's how certain types of common allergies occur in the US.

I have been telling people to eat organic for years. Allergies are a kind of inflammation in the body, and over time inflamation dramatically increases your risk for developing cancer.

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Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

I'm just wondering whether you're coming from a UK or non-UK perspective here. In the UK, there is very little you can do to change your class, as class is determined by birth and culture/upbringing. In North America, money = class, and there is more class mobility. Your survey questions seemed to indicate that you went with the latter view of class.

That being said, class in general is a silly social construct that doesn't say anything about whether you would want to be friends with the person (which is the only attrubute that matters!)

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I'm not sure where the line is drawn between lower class and middle class? I'm used to think there's the threshold of poverty, below which one can't afford to survive, and the threshold of richness at an unspecified high yearly income - enough to award someone the "rich" adjective. Beyond that, it's all a murky grey area for me. I'm not sure which one of the two my family belongs to, due to differing standards from country to country. Either way, I'm still in education, and apart from tuition (which I pay for with my scholarships) I depend on them financially still.

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I grew up in a lower class family (both parents worked near minimum wage jobs), but I'm living on my own now and I'd consider myself middle class (2 years out of college). Meh in the long run I figure it doesn't really matter. Money is something I like to make for the amusement of it, but I'm a minimalist so it doesn't do me much good. I honestly live like I make 1/3 of what I actually do.

I'll probably donate more than 90% of it to environmental causes anyway.

Yeah, right... do you really think anyone who's upper class is going to broadcast it on here???

Why would them being upper class matter? AVEN's not the type of community that'd gang up on people just for having money. That's petty.

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Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

I'm just wondering whether you're coming from a UK or non-UK perspective here. In the UK, there is very little you can do to change your class, as class is determined by birth and culture/upbringing. In North America, money = class, and there is more class mobility. Your survey questions seemed to indicate that you went with the latter view of class.

That being said, class in general is a silly social construct that doesn't say anything about whether you would want to be friends with the person (which is the only attrubute that matters!)

I'm not from the UK, I live in California.

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Not to be rude OP, I'm confused on why this matters?

Well I think that some sociologists look for markers to determine weather certain things are ingrained, like sexuality, or if they are merely signposts of class. Things like the food allergy phenomenon that only really occur in wealthy nations. People who are starving rarely refuse food. (If you suffer from a food allergy please don't take offense, I myself developed an allergy to brazil nuts as I got older). I have just seen these kinds of questions raised by researchers in the past.

I think people in poor countries get food allergies, they probably just mistake them for something else. Either that, or they believe that indigestion or eczema are the least of their problems when their babies are starving and murdurious gangs on the loose. If you don't have to deal with big problems like that, you can zoom in on smaller health issues and make a big fuss about them. Which is kind of what is happening in the first world.

Then again, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that a diet high in GMOs will result in higher rates of food allergies. Human bodies interpret foreign DNA in foods like corn and soy as dangerous pathogens that must be destroyed. Over time, your body can become so picky about GMO laden foods that it starts viewing all soy and corn (even organic) as dangerous enemy substances, and that's how certain types of common allergies occur in the US.

I have been telling people to eat organic for years. Allergies are a kind of inflammation in the body, and over time inflamation dramatically increases your risk for developing cancer.

I just wanted to say thanks for this, it is sort of what I meant. I should have at least stayed on topic. I realized I was stepping on toes by responding to a question not directed at me. I was going to delete it but you beat me to the punch. Sorry, this is the last from me, but I will keep reading as I find this thread very interesting.

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I have refused to vote on this as I refuse to acknowledge class or class difference.

I refuse to accept that anyone is better than everyone else merely due to an accident of birth. Even if you have genuinely earned your wealth through sheer bloody hard work, that doesn't give you the right to call someone less fortunate 'lower class'.

In my book, we are all human, all equal and nobody is better than anyone else just because they have more money or a better standard of living.

The class system, at least the British class system (along with the Indian caste system, a similar thing) is just as evil as apartheid or the segregation system which once existed in the Deep South of America.

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I'm not sure where the line is drawn between lower class and middle class? I'm used to think there's the threshold of poverty, below which one can't afford to survive, and the threshold of richness at an unspecified high yearly income - enough to award someone the "rich" adjective. Beyond that, it's all a murky grey area for me. I'm not sure which one of the two my family belongs to, due to differing standards from country to country. Either way, I'm still in education, and apart from tuition (which I pay for with my scholarships) I depend on them financially still.

I'm not sure where the line is drawn either. Let's try and find out.

I would say that poor people try and have the best life that they can get away with (short of stealing). In many places, credit cards allow people a life that is artificially a lot nicer than they could afford using the money they earned by itself.

Can you imagine if people's only option was to pay out of pocket for everything, from cars, to houses, to healthcare? My guess is middle class would look a lot poorer.

Most everything poor people have is something that they owe money on. And if they have given up on upward mobility entirely, they tend to go hog wild, buying big flat screen TVs, iphones, nice cars they will never pay off. People who live outside their means and have credit so poor that upward mobility is impossible, or nearly impossible.

Middle class is similar to this, but the people buy less flashy/expensive things, and (at least intend) to pay their bills back. In this way they have a little more upward mobility than the poor.

What do you think?

I have refused to vote on this as I refuse to acknowledge class or class difference.

I refuse to accept that anyone is better than everyone else merely due to an accident of birth. Even if you have genuinely earned your wealth through sheer bloody hard work, that doesn't give you the right to call someone less fortunate 'lower class'.

In my book, we are all human, all equal and nobody is better than anyone else just because they have more money or a better standard of living.

The class system, at least the British class system (along with the Indian caste system, a similar thing) is just as evil as apartheid or the segregation system which once existed in the Deep South of America.

Nobody is saying anyone is better than anyone else. All I'm saying is that money effects the way you live and what kinds of choices you make.
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You are correct on this, Wowmom and I never meant to disrespect you or you poll. I'm just fiercely political and class issues tend to inflame me.

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3 people are upper class, which either means three people are royalty, or three people really don't know what upper class means and think it just means rich.

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Everyone thinks they are middle class.....rich people poor people everyone. Basically it is a joke.

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Within my family and my culture talking about your own or other peoples finances is frowned upon. It's just something you don't talk about. It can come off as rude and callous when you put more value into what a person has or how much they spend on something instead of seeing the value of that person by their actions or what's said.

Now if this was a question of how the world economy affects AVENites I might have a solid opinion about that, but I don't think that's what this thread is geared towards.

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This is from "Posters For Good" and it seems relevant (it's looking at how class/privilege affects us on a big scale). I think of myself as working class since I live paycheck to paycheck. This however, tells me I am far from lower income.

If you have food in your fridge, clothes on your back, a roof over your head and a place to sleep you are richer than 75% of the world.

If you have money in the bank, your wallet, and some spare change you are among the top 8% of the worlds wealthy.

If you woke up this morning with more health than illness you are more blessed than the million people who will not survive this week.

If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the agony of imprisonment or torture, or the horrible pangs of starvation you are luckier than 500 million people alive and suffering.

If you can read this message you are more fortunate than 3 billion people in the world who cannot read it at all.

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I belong somewhere on middle to upper middle class. I don't have to work if I don't want to to support my living.
But I do not think that people are different just because they are born in a different class. Children are taught how to behave it isn't something that you are born with. But class is often determined in a very subjective way so it is difficult for me to say exactly where a class starts and where an other is the correct label.
But I know that all of my super posh friends consider themselves middle class even if they have 3 homes and 6 cars. There is a sort of taboo to call themselves upper class. At least according to me^^

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I voted radically different situation.

I live with my parents. I work full time. I contribute to household finances, but I don't pay rent and I often eat food that they buy. I pay my own medical bills (which are my largest expense by a long shot) as well as clothing, some of my food, my travel expenses and other miscellaneous expenses. And I take care of my brothers.

My father has a middle class job- he is a full professor at a prestigious college. My mother has no job that brings in money. My parents have some very large expenses.

I have low pay jobs, with varying prestige; my main job is a lower-class job. And it's one I intend to stick with.

When it comes to identity, I see myself as having a middle class background but lower class concerns and lower class financial interests.

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I hate the class system also but it exists.

I was born into a middle-class small town background, but my mother and I became working-class when my father left my mother. I've been working class all my life -- worked fulltime for low wages as a single mother after my kids' father left.

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Not to be rude OP, I'm confused on why this matters?

World economics are changing, and the middle class is shrinking. In similar times, like during the great depression, families and loved ones came together to share resources. I'm just wondering if a shrinking middle class effects asexuals in a different way than most people. Like, do adult asexuals live at home with parents more often? marry for money?or live an impoverished asocial life?

Sorry to say this: I don't like the questions. - IMHO we get formed / programmed during our childhood and thats been a while (at least for me here)...

I'd really love to see split questions about parental and current class to make the poll somehow usable.

Upon the update / quote above: I have middle class roots and am working class. Family's wealth blessed me with my own appropriate home, without it I might be tempted to rent somebody's broom compartment to live in. - My life could be described as impoverished a-social as it is; I am surely not willing to go out anymore, now that gastronomy / club prices doubled while my wage remained kind of the same. - To cut a long lament short: I don't see any needs of my own that I can't fulfill. I am way too adjusted to a underemployed / apprentice / student "spending style". - If I got sacked right now I'd probably dash to the bank and burn my savings on fancy toys to appear poor enough for social security.

Marriage for money is unfortunately no option for me here. - Gender roles issue. - I suck way too much in the house"wife" role to even consider such a step. - I really wouldn't know how to compensate for that fact. - Living with a far better earning wife wouldn't get me nowhere since just like doing overtime I would have to trade in little freedoms and alone time I'm treasuring for questionable luxuries.

_______________

When you discussed class separation above: - I define as working class due to my comparably low income. - OTOH: I am absolutely debt free, don't use credit cards and buy vehicles when needed or wanted. - sanity & moderation seem the key there. - I'm glad to have gotten rid of my cars. I don't see anybody making or selling one that would impress & tempt me (in my situation).

I am not sure if class lines are drawn clearly around here. - I have migrant co-workers challenged to write in our local language who drive quite decent cars earn less than me and do a shitload of overtime. A qualified one seems even collecting real estate.

My middle class definition would be a family getting along well (home car stuff vacations) with just one plain income.

I'm too lazy to define the starting point of upper class. I guess its somewhere in the never work again but keep the butler range, where enjoying your toys doesn't get interrupted by a need to earn more $$.

How can you different between classes of people?

Look at what they have combined with a look at their finances?

Are there some things that are a red flag for "poor"?

What about rich, people? What makes them different from middle class people?

IMHO A really well paid job in the 500%+x minimum wage region establishes middle class status for sure. - A rich person is free to quit their job at will. - It isn't done for the money. - They could stay at home and never bother to apply for unemployment aid since they have other sources of sufficient income too

What are the values of the middle class?

career / their own business family culture education and joy?

What can people expect out of life due to their class?

I suppose retired working class is less likely to crowd cruise liners on a regular base?

Do different nations have different ideas about class?

Sure!

Do you think asexuality has any impact on which class you end up living most of your life in?

Assuming you wouldn't waste your time on AVEN you could go and achieve to your hearts content...

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3 people are upper class, which either means three people are royalty, or three people really don't know what upper class means and think it just means rich.

Not necessarily

Upper class is more a lifestyle than how much money a person makes.

I have upper class relatives that live in an upper class neighborhood and go to socialite events. I've even been to some pretty famous places that usually won't accept people who aren't part of the "club" because I've been a guest.

I also have relatives that have money that live middle class lifestyles. They live in a nice suburban neighborhood and they have a golden retriever. My cousins go to good schools and are getting a really good education but they aren't being raised as "upper class". The last thing they'd call themselves are upper class

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