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Guest member25959

"Even a shitpost is a post" ... JFF's Arcade and post count

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Guest member25959

If you've frequented JFF in the past then you may have noticed that your post count has dipped slightly (maybe not by 6,000 but still)

... I'm not sure if we've established why that's so just yet. But since we're discussing post counts anyway, may I suggest that we reevaluate how JFF's Arcade works and counts posts?

See, that's the issue: Posts in the Arcade aren't counted. Before we updated the forum software, we had two post counts; an infobox post count and a profile post count. The profile post count gave us our actual post count (it counted Arcade/Chattebox posts), whereas the infobox discounted Arcade posts

Here's my issue with Arcade's post count policy, it's archaic. I hope I haven't messed up my history here... but the Arcade was created in 2008 as "The Chatterbox", it was seen as a solution to the Longest Thread "controversy". That's all in the past now, five years in the past

But lets forget all that and get down to the basics here... a post count is, well, a count of how often you've posted. If we discount posts from this count, how can we call it a post count? It's incredibly inaccurate, discounting Arcade posts serves no actual purpose (I'm guessing that its original intended purpose was to deter people from shitposting, just to up their count). It serves no functional purpose anywhere, the only thing it really does is render our post count useless and incorrect

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mayve

I don't mind. I usually think of post count is a way to see how truly involved they are in this community. If we counted those nearly spamish posts the numbers would be ridiculous - and as it is we'd have to get a whole new set of member titles (even though I wish we would abandon that system and go with custom titles - but it is what it is).

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SpadeofAces

I think posting just to make numbers should be discouraged. The quality of discussion and posts is much more important than quantity.

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Ein

I'd say the JFF section is mostly a spam section. Anything goes: single word posts, no-word posts with just an emoticon or picture, etc. I've been using forums for a long time now and there would usually be a 'spam section' where people could do whatever they wanted. It was great because they'd be the only places you could spam or generally dick around.

While I agree our post counts aren't accurate due to JFF being discounted, I do agree with the sentiment in that it shows your "quality post count" versus actual, possibly spammy post count. I've been to forums that will warn you for a one-word reply or posts that basically lack depth. It's really annoying and brings the overall forum quality down. Of course, having such policies are only fair when you allow for a JFF-esque section on the boards. Most of the time I avoid JFF type sections simply because it's just a spamfest where it proves difficult to have a legitimate conversation with people.

For example, you have 14k posts and I assume none are from the JFF. This being the case, I can tell straight off that you're an active member and so would be more likely to interact with you when such things prove relevant. My post count is low (50 something) which suggests I'm not that active on the boards. If I were on JFF all the time and made 14k posts on there, people on the JFF boards would know me well for it but I would hardly expect others to take me as a serious poster. It's more of a cultural thing from what I've seen, but I can't say I really disagree with it.

We may as well make post counts private or at the very least clarify what they represent (eg, quality posts rather than JFF type posts), but I think JFF should still exist but not go towards post counts.

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mayve

I think posting just to make numbers should be discouraged. The quality of discussion and posts is much more important than quantity.

Agreed.

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Guest member25959

A few forums enforce a minimum word count rule, it's possible to automatically enforce it through the ACP depending on the software. I would recommend that as a last resort, or maybe introduce a rule that advises against spamming

In any case, there's nothing that really prevents us from spamming anywhere on AVEN. We could easily spam in Q&A or MusiRants, I would even say that Off-A is level with JFF in terms of quality posts

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Zerο

Why does a post count even matter? I mean aside from a title (which also doesn't do anything), does an arbitrary number really affect your AVEN experience? :huh:

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Ein

A few forums enforce a minimum word count rule, it's possible to automatically enforce it through the ACP depending on the software. I would recommend that as a last resort, or maybe introduce a rule that advises against spamming

In any case, there's nothing that really prevents us from spamming anywhere on AVEN. We could easily spam in Q&A or MusiRants, I would even say that Off-A is level with JFF in terms of quality posts

That's true, but then all you have to do is add a filler word (which is what many forumers choose to do). For example, I could have just said "Agreed" as a response to this topic, but with a minimum word count filter, I'd just toss in an emoticon (which usually is interpreted as a word) or I could have said "Agreed, man" which is the exact same thing and doesn't add to the discussion. Also, there are issues where if I really just wanted to bump a topic (which most forums don't prohibit unless it's excessive) then I'd have to add in more filler words.

I do agree that Off-A is much the same way, but JFF seems to ONLY be about spamming with few exceptions. I'm sure I've posted there before, but there is seldom anything intellectually in-depth about it so it's just annoying to deal with. We do have actual spam rules, but I think they should be refined and reorganized so that it's explicitly stated that JFF is a freebie place and that you should add more to your other posts (including to Off-A).

But if I just felt like being annoying or was just that bored, I really would appreciate having something like JFF where people can view my post history and not see a thousand posts with myself and other members posting single number responses to a "Count to X" type thread.

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5_♦♣

@icon: JFF posts do count towards post count. Arcade posts don't. Furthermore, I've had plenty of conversations in various JFF threads.

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Waist of Thyme

I don't really see how JFF is a "spam section". If there's a thread for people to post pictures of silly hats, which is a thread that would belong in JFF, and I post a picture of a silly hat in that thread my reply is relevant to the topic and thus I'm not spamming. Spam is when you make a post that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic or a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the board it was posted in.

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ObsessedWithCats

I've had plenty of serious discussions in JFF. Its also entertaining and often very clever - for the most part nothing like a spam section. It can get very silly but people are still thinking about their posts and actually interacting with each other rather than just shouting madly.

I think my post count decreased by maybe four? That'd probably correspond to the one thread I've posted in that's in Arcade if it's been moved there from JFF. I'm somewhat torn between wanting post count to actually be a post count, rather than just a bit of it, and wanting the post count to give a good idea of how much thought someone's put into the community.

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ThaHoward

I think posting just to make numbers should be discouraged. The quality of discussion and posts is much more important than quantity.

Who are you to decide which discussion that got quality or not? If some like to play games etc or chat, why should they not be considered equal to political discussions etc? And I really doubt Arcade posters are posting simply to raise their post count. It is to participate in discussions and threads they are interested in. Further, to make JFF posts count and Arcade to not count is weird, as it's a fine line between JFF and Arcade posts. You can see that many posts in JFF and Arcade are similar, and that it is practically little difference between these two forums.

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`Silver

I agree with wolverine here. People who post in the Arcade should do so because of fun, not because they want to increase a postcount. For people who have never been on forums, or haven't been there for very long (as it may be the case for some of our younger users), the postcount is a way of telling active members apart from inactive members. It has an impact on most individuals, psychologically speaking, so I think it's fair for a person who puts some thought into their posts to have a higher postcount than someone who just plays the Arcade games.

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Philip027

Ideally, I would like post counts on any forum to reflect how much a poster has contributed toward conversations actually relating to the primary subject of the forum in question.

Making "shitposts" count toward this total kinda goes against that ideal, in my eyes, so personally I don't think they should be counted. But, most other forums do count off-topic posts, and there certainly are many other things that can skew a post count anyways, so I don't have THAT strong of an opinion about it. I don't tend to post in the "shitpost" sections anyway. I come here to talk primarily about asexuality and related issues, not to see how high I can count before someone "sees it"

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Away with the fairies

The numbers mean nothing and I would rather the post count be done away with and instead use the date you became a member

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Nanook

I think posting just to make numbers should be discouraged. The quality of discussion and posts is much more important than quantity.

Agreed.

+1

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.Lia

Ideally, I would like post counts on any forum to reflect how much a poster has contributed toward conversations actually relating to the primary subject of the forum in question.

This is why, when running for PT/Admods, post count does not include those made in the Welcome Lounge or JFF. I've always agreed with this sentiment across the entirety of the forum, and have suggested that post counts be turned off in these forums all the time. Most don't agree with me, though, and that's okay. Maybe I just don't get why it's so awesome to have an obscenely large number of posts.

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`Silver

This is why, when running for PT/Admods, post count does not include those made in the Welcome Lounge or JFF. I've always agreed with this sentiment across the entirety of the forum, and have suggested that post counts be turned off in these forums all the time. Most don't agree with me, though, and that's okay. Maybe I just don't get why it's so awesome to have an obscenely large number of posts.

Well, admittedly being able to truthfully say "It's over nine thousand!" has its upsides :P

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Guest

I would just make them all count. Otherwise you have to get into a debate of which forums are the "shit-posting" forums other than Arcade/JFF. You could argue that Celebrations, Welcome and Census are all just places that people can post just to get their post count up.

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ThaHoward

That ^ Also I don't see what the problem is that some might have more posts than others because of "shitposts", and if someone post only to get up their post count, why should they not be able to do it? Also who are we to detirmine what is "good" and "bad" posts? Shouldn't the users decide that for themselves?

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Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte

Speaking from an admin perspective.

JFF and Welcome shouldn't count because they don't count towards Mod Elections and it's a pain to count posts :(

Speaking from my own:

I don't see why JFF counts. It's the fun part of the forum and a lot of other forums I've been to don't have that part counting.

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ThaHoward

But why shouldn't it count? Excluding the admod thing, but then the welcome forum should not be counted to? And because most forums do it, is it an argument in itself? Do it serve a purpose?

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Ein

I think 'shitpost' forums are more or less like chat. Not to say there can't be legitimate discussions going on, but why *assume* it's a worthwhile post?

We may as well allow chat lines to count as posts, because it's really hard to get recognized for contribution to the chat (or blogs or w/e non-forum specific things we have here).

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Janus DarkFox

I see that contrary to other forums, post counts serve a genuine valid purpose here rather than posting for the sake of numbers, but to measure contributions to this site.

I'm still I'm favour of switching off counting the whole of JFF/Welcome and possibly other areas. It's only a number at the end of the day.

... Interesting to see this type of post count purge if this was in effect... :blink:

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praetorius

An arbitrary personal perspective:

Overall, post counts don't matter that much for anything at all "important." In the big picture, what does or does not get counted doesn't seem like a big deal. I can judge the quality of a post without referring to a poster's post count; as can I pick up on the "reputability" of frequent posters by frequently seeing insightful posts from them. Anyone who wanted to "artificially" inflate their post count could already do so, by posting trivial few-word "me too!" or "agreed!"-type posts on every discussion thread. Doing so to gain eligibility for mod elections would be thoroughly counterproductive, as it would give a poster a well-established reputation for being vapid.

That said, I personally wouldn't want Arcade posts counted, on account of one thread in particular (QBTS), which I've made a zillion posts to. Even though my post count doesn't "mean anything" in the big picture, I like using it for a personal sense of accomplishment in tracking how much I've "contributed." If that post count were "watered down" with all the trivial one-digit QBTS posts I've made, I'd be disappointed (for no particularly good reason) at having no tracker for how many potentially "worthwhile" posts I've made.

On the other hand, Welcome forum posts seem like a good thing to count --- because encouraging "established" members to be active in welcoming new participants seems like a good thing; and the few extra posts that a "noob" racks up in the Welcome area aren't going to give them any "unfair advantage" over posters participating everywhere else.

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`Silver

I agree with praetorius about Welcome Lounge posting. As for Cels and JFF, yep, I'd be fine taking them off the postcount as well, for a similar reason. I just think the Arcade is the most eminent candidate to not count towards one's postcount because of many threads that are of the same nature as Qbits, or similar.

I mean, should chat messages count towards one's postcount too? Because we're basically arguing about the same thing. Arcade is a bit like chat topic-wise (when chat is silly), just not real time.

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5_♦♣

Thing about welcome lounge is, is that it's easy to post nothing but 'welcome, have some cake'. And even in T&S, I imagine it's quite easy to just put 'sorry for your loss/sorry to hear that'. And, despite the like button, it's easy in every other forum to just put '^this' or 'ITA'. Basically, every single forum is prone to spam posts. So why not just get rid of the post count altogether? Not that I'm actually in favor of that (quite the opposite), but either all posts should count or none should.

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Guest

Thing about welcome lounge is, is that it's easy to post nothing but 'welcome, have some cake'. And even in T&S, I imagine it's quite easy to just put 'sorry for your loss/sorry to hear that'. And, despite the like button, it's easy in every other forum to just put '^this' or 'ITA'. Basically, every single forum is prone to spam posts. So why not just get rid of the post count altogether? Not that I'm actually in favor of that (quite the opposite), but either all posts should count or none should.

^this

teehee

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Kelly

I would just make them all count. Otherwise you have to get into a debate of which forums are the "shit-posting" forums other than Arcade/JFF. You could argue that Celebrations, Welcome and Census are all just places that people can post just to get their post count up.

.

Good point. Were it up to me, they would all count. A post is a post.

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divided_sky

I post in the JFF, but not for the purpose of increasing my post count. I post there because I like some of the threads. Why should those not count? This is completely silly. What's with the assumption that posting there means one is doing so for the purpose of increasing their post count?

There are short, meaningless posts all over the board. Welcome lounge? (I'm sure it's been mentioned already but I'm too tired to read this whole thread)

How many posts do you see where one member writes out a very well written post, someone quotes it and says "yeah, i agree". How can that count then?

Make them count, or the entire post count should just go away, as it's meaningless. Or are we going to get into a long and incredibly boring debate about what constitutes a valid post?

Why should anyone else be able to make a decision on the validity of another member's post? To them, maybe it's some stupid JFF thing that they don't care about. To some of us who post there, it does matter. What an elitist attitude to suggest that they shouldn't be relevant. I don't think the replies in the welcome lounge are worth much, but I know to some it is, so I would never suggest that their posts should not count.

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