Stopping the Blame Game

[JDP]

On 11/23/2019 at 11:35 AM, Sky Mountain said:

JDP, I wish I had seen your post years ago! I'm a sexual woman married to an asexual. He has very little ability or desire for introspection and has not explored his sexuality. It makes him totally anxious to think he doesn't fit in to societies norms of manhood and has learned how to act as if he is sexual. He has not come to grips that he is asexual as that doesn't fit societies narrative. He knows all the buttons to push and is a great sexual and romantic partner early in the game of love. Then, after some time (in our case 2 months) he begins to pull back, frequency drops until nothing. I'm not the first nor may I be the last where this scenario plays out.

 

To your question about ego needs of sexual women being in a committed and loving relationship with an asexual man. For me personally, I would say in general it is equal if not greater assuming your definition of ego is the same as mine. "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance." 

 

As a sexual woman or my self-esteem and self-importance to remain in tact, I feel a need to be desired sexually by my mate. To know that they find me attractive physically, emotionally, spiritually. At early stages of a relationship, the expression of physical desire is enough for me to get my "ego boost" to take things to the next level of truly connecting on an emotional and spiritual level. The sexual attraction and desire requirement for me has always been there. And it seems like a natural human animal behavior frankly. Thus why I have never been in love with a friend where this desire attraction is non existent. It is required to opening me up to coupling and eventually to commitment and monogamy. Without knowing that I am sexually desired by my mate, the emotional and spiritual connection is not enough. My "ego" is shattered. In my current 7 year relationship with now discovered asexual, I have compensated unconsciously by giving up an essential part of me that is sensual, flirtatious, confident and feminine, the very essence of what makes me attractive to begin with, even to my asexual partner. It isn't the sex that's important; it's the being desired if that makes sense. Sex is just the icing on the cake for me.  

I am no longer willing to do without this important piece of my personal being. I love that part of me that makes me feel alive and healthy. I love myself enough to get it back. I'm hoping that my asexual partner will grow to understand, take the journey with me out of the deep love we have for each other. The roadmap is now evolving for me as I gain better insight to his asexuality, my needs, his needs. One thing is clear. The status quo is not going to work for me. We are discussing and my intentions are clear. He must do the work and gain better insight into himself. He must overcome the anxiety he gets when he no longer fits into the preconceived notion/narrative of what is acceptable to society. Without this insight, I'm left to draw the map myself and it will be a solo journey. 

So how are things now?

[anisotrophic]

@JDP I do think it was harder for me, as a woman, to be undesired sexually. Things feel less... I feel less need/worry to be wanted/loved. I don't know how much of that is internalization of gender roles. But T has effects on emotion that are hard to articulate.

[JDP]

On 2/13/2020 at 9:16 PM, anisotrophic said:

@JDP I do think it was harder for me, as a woman, to be undesired sexually. Things feel less... I feel less need/worry to be wanted/loved. I don't know how much of that is internalization of gender roles. But T has effects on emotion that are hard to articulate.

It's something I talk about in therapy, a lot. 

[Gucci_Grape]

The worst thing anyone ever said to me was when my dad told me that if I dated an allosexual man, he would "walk out on me" without sex. It made me (and still makes me) feel really terrible about myself and it scares me to be in a relationship for fear that he might be right. But it's comforting to read this because you're right. The right relationship shouldn't come with those insecurities. And we all deserve to have a relationship where we feel safe, comforted, and loved. 

I'm more hopeful now than I was before reading this. 

[Forget-me-not]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:25 AM, Pheedre said:

I've been accused of for not caring or not trying hard enough...doesn't help that I've become sex repulsed so, not much room for compromise...

That is exactly what I've been going through for years.. I was accused of and blamed for not trying hard enough, not acting 'like a real woman' that I've become sex repulsed in a way. The worse thing is that my partners did not even care enough to talk to me about the reasons why I was being 'like that'. I think I used to be sexual but this kind of attitude actually made me (I think) demisexual. 

[Alylib]

I don't have any friends and haven't had relationship experience so I can only relate from a familial point of view. I don't really have a problem with the way I feel about sex or relationships but my mother makes me feel guilty. She always says 'What did I do wrong?' or "How do you think I feel' and I tend to feel guilty even though I shouldn't. She does this with a lot of things like my anxiety but I want her to stop putting the blame on herself or try to put it on me and just accept who I am and who I want to be. 

[Siegfriedeandcoareenbies]

On 4/25/2013 at 10:44 PM, Lydian said:

For many people who choose not to have sex, pushing themselves to have sex can lead to feeling frustrated with having to do so, resentful towards their partner for making them and just downright miserable. This sounds strangely familiar, doesn't it? If having sex, or having too much sex, is going to make someone unhappy they have every right to say no. Many asexuals will be willing to compromise and can be happy despite it, but it has to be their choice. Just because the feelings of the sexual are seen as the 'norm', doesn't mean they over rule the asexual's feelings. They are not wrong to feel this way and should not be blamed or shamed for it. It doesn't mean they don't care about your feelings, but they have the right to be happy in a relationship too.

CW: SA.

 

Sorry for responding to something out of context but this is personal, just want to point out that the underlined section is literally rape! Coerced sex is also rape, making someone have sex in any way is wrong.

[uhtred]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:42 PM, Siegfriedeandcoareenbies said:

CW: SA.

 

Sorry for responding to something out of context but this is personal, just want to point out that the underlined section is literally rape! Coerced sex is also rape, making someone have sex in any way is wrong.

I think that words can be fuzzy.  The original quote was  "or many people who choose not to have sex, pushing themselves to have sex can lead to feeling frustrated with having to do so, resentful towards their partner for making them and just downright miserable"

There is a wide range of the extent to which people are "pushed" / coerced.    I would say that someone choosing to have sex they don't enjoy in order to maintain a relationship is not rape, whereas someone who has sex because they fear for their safety if they refuse certainly is. 

 

I believe leaving a relationship for any reason, including lack of sex is acceptable,  but any sort of threat (implied or direct) of taking illegal action against someone is not. 

 

I think the distinction is important because some asexuals choose to have sex with their partners because it is preferable to ending the relationship.  As long as they are in a position to make that choice, then I think its OK, if very far from ideal 

[Siegfriedeandcoareenbies]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:45 PM, uhtred said:

I think that words can be fuzzy.  The original quote was  "or many people who choose not to have sex, pushing themselves to have sex can lead to feeling frustrated with having to do so, resentful towards their partner for making them and just downright miserable"

There is a wide range of the extent to which people are "pushed" / coerced.    I would say that someone choosing to have sex they don't enjoy in order to maintain a relationship is not rape, whereas someone who has sex because they fear for their safety if they refuse certainly is. 

 

I believe leaving a relationship for any reason, including lack of sex is acceptable,  but any sort of threat (implied or direct) of taking illegal action against someone is not. 

 

I think the distinction is important because some asexuals choose to have sex with their partners because it is preferable to ending the relationship.  As long as they are in a position to make that choice, then I think its OK, if very far from ideal 

I'm sorry but coercion doesn't only happen through threats to your life and by saying that you are just diluting what these things mean. You're someone we haven't liked on here for a while but I just want to say that the reason I'm blocking you is because this is denying what I went through was nonconsensual.

[GarlicDragon]

This thread makes me feel afraid to post here, because of the rampant aphobia that the admins allow.

 

Why even have a site for asexual support, if we allow allosexuals to disparage us in a post that was actually supporting them? Seriously reconsidering this website. I didn't join to have allosexual's opinions shoved down my throat, I joined here so I could go online without having to read allosexual opinions. 

[J. van Deijck]

Even sexual people had their ressons to join here and everyone is welcome here, as long as they're respectful to others.

I've been here for more than seven years and I haven't noticed any aphobia here. And this comes from someone who visits here daily.

[iff]

Temporary lock for cool down.

Aven is for everyone. Sexual Partners, Friends, and allies is a forum that is designed so that sexual Partners of aces could visit and get support from other partners of aces.

 

Iff,

Moderator, sexual partners, Friends, and allies 

[iff]

Unlocked. 

please be respectful of each other's views.

 

Iff,

Moderator, sexual partners, Friends, and allies

[Guest]

On 4/25/2013 at 11:44 PM, Lydian said:

So recently, I've come across a number of posts, old and new, that really bothered me. Some were from fellow asexuals and others from sexuals. Often times these posts have already been responded to, but I felt I really wanted to make a thread addressing it. I'll warn you I tend to ramble on and this might be long. I may return and revise it later.

 

So what is the 'Blame Game'? Basically, it's when you blame someone for following their sexuality. I think it's really easy to do, especially if you don't have a good understanding of how the other side feels, or why they feel the way they do. I would like to point out that not everything I am going to say is going to apply to every sexual or asexual, it's merely an example of a situation that can often arise.

 

Often for someone who is asexual, it can be difficult to understand why sex is something necessary in a relationship, especially since we could easily go without. I've encountered it several times where I've heard people blaming the sexuals for their need for sex, shaming it, treating it as though the only thing sexuals want from a relationship is sex. It's seen as unfair that they should expect sex when their partner doesn't. For many people who are sexual however, a lack of sex can cause feelings of frustration and resentment for being denied. While there may be some who really are ok with becoming celibate, forcing someone into celibacy is likely to leave them downright miserable.

 

For many it is more than just a physical urge, but also a desire for closeness with their partner. Relationships are about making each other happy and if you're unhappy with a lack of sex, you should have every right to say so, to ask for a change and to not be blamed for your feelings. There is NOTHING wrong with expecting sex in a relationship, and you should never feel like you are at fault for feeling this way. You have a right to be happy in your relationship. Keep in mind this does not mean you are entitled to sex from your partner. It just means that you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting or asking for it within reason.

 

On the flip-side, for someone who is sexual, it seems like it can be difficult to understand why someone would refuse sex. Even upon coming to the understanding of someone not wanting it, to refuse to give it can, and often is, seen as being selfish. The feelings mentioned before are likely to surface and it's difficult to understand, despite how you feel, why your partner still refuses sex. Outside a relationship, asexuals may be considered to be 'prudes' for expressing that they never want to have sex. If sex is so important to sexuals, is it fair to deny them?

 

For many people who choose not to have sex, pushing themselves to have sex can lead to feeling frustrated with having to do so, resentful towards their partner for making them and just downright miserable. This sounds strangely familiar, doesn't it? If having sex, or having too much sex, is going to make someone unhappy they have every right to say no. Many asexuals will be willing to compromise and can be happy despite it, but it has to be their choice. Just because the feelings of the sexual are seen as the 'norm', doesn't mean they over rule the asexual's feelings. They are not wrong to feel this way and should not be blamed or shamed for it. It doesn't mean they don't care about your feelings, but they have the right to be happy in a relationship too.

 

When you love someone, you want them to be happy. It's up to both people in a relationship to understand their partner's feelings, and work together to find something that can work without making anyone miserable. Neither person is wrong to assert their desires. It's up to you to decide how far you're able to compromise with your partner before making yourself or your partner unhappy. Asserting your own happiness of course, is not the same as refusing to work with your partner at all. If you really love them and want to make things work, compromises will need to be made. Frustration may happen and things might not be easy, just don't ever blame your partner for the way they feel. Always be honest with your partner about how certain things make you feel, they can't read your mind, but also try to be wary of when your partner seems like they might be pushing themselves to try to please you.

 

Edit: I'd like to add one small thing as well, in case it was misunderstood. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to make it work. Sometimes it wont and that's nobody's fault and it doesn't meant one person or both just 'didn't try hard enough'. Sometimes people just wont be compatible (which can be caused by a lot of things not just sex) and that's ok. You're never under pressure to stay in a relationship that does more harm than good for you and it doesn't mean you just 'didn't love your partner enough' or that they just didn't love you enough if they can't make things work either. It's ok to try and fail and learn and grow from the experience.'

 

Edit 2: Some advice from an older, wiser but still growing Me. Don't feel like you HAVE to 'compromise' in any way that makes you less than happy. Someone dear to me told me "I don't want you to be Fine. I want you to be Happy." I have been trying to take these words to heart. A compromise you're not thrilled about but are 'willing to deal with' isn't good for you and eventually it's going to come out. Also when I say it's ok for sexual people to "ask for sex" that doesn't mean when you ALREADY KNOW your partner is not ok with it. If you absolutely need sex in a relationship, then this relationship is not for you.

 

tl;dr

Sexuals have the right to ask for sex, and asexuals have the right to refuse and neither should be blamed.  (Edit: Not if you already know your partner is not ok with sex at all. Communication is ongoing, but please don't ask someone for something you know they're not ok giving. If your needs aren't being met, it may be time to move on. It's not anyone's fault.) One orientation does not 'overrule' the other. Everyone has the right to be happy and if you love someone, you'll be willing to work to find something that keeps you BOTH happy while understanding that your partner's feelings are just as valid as your own.

---

If something is unclear, or you think I should change/add something, let me know. If you can come up with a better way to word something GO FOR IT, I'm not that good at this whole putting together of the words thing. I'll possibly revise this as I said to make it shorter and more concise....I tend to ramble first time through.

Dear lydian,

Music to my ears. I'm the sexual in a mixed relationship of 3 decades  Sex matters to me. It goes deep. I lost my mum age 2 and had an early craving for which translated in self soothing. 

When I met hubby we were besotted. When sex stopped hubby did his very best to fix things. Then bang asexuality.

Yes there's pain in knowing I can't have sex with him. But there's greater pain and indeed grief with the idea of  parting with him.

What I'm trying to say it's not all black and white. Only if the choice you outline was so clear. I would  be all too happy to say I'm so  miserable that I can forsake the love of my life. 

Yes, I'd rather we had a sex life. We don't. it's something I really couldn't have imagined. What help is there for us apart from staying  or leavimg? You tell me.

 

[Olallieberry]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:03 AM, alibali said:

I dont think the whole of the site is like the OP states.

There's enough of it that we need to keep this thread alive in the spirit it was intended.

[Rain dancer81]

I have found great comfort in this site just knowing I am not alone. I even remember being in awe that there was even a flag to represent me. However, it is hard sometimes posting here about my frustrations of being an Ace married to a sexual and always having sexuals chime in to ‘take his side’ so to speak. 🙄 Giving me ‘his perspective’. I sometimes just want comradely with my ‘people’. I don’t always want to play devils advocate. 

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, Juniper Lily said:

I have found great comfort in this site just knowing I am not alone. I even remember being in awe that there was even a flag to represent me. However, it is hard sometimes posting here about my frustrations of being an Ace married to a sexual and always having sexuals chime in to ‘take his side’ so to speak. 🙄 Giving me ‘his perspective’. I sometimes just want comradely with my ‘people’. I don’t always want to play devils advocate. 

Sexual here to say I completely understand. I genuinely try not to do that except for those (many) threads where the ace asks for sexuals' input.

 

There are sexuals who feel exactly the same way about aces jumping in to SPFA to do the same thing. 

[Sally]

19 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Sexual here to say I completely understand. I genuinely try not to do that except for those (many) threads where the ace asks for sexuals' input.

 

There are sexuals who feel exactly the same way about aces jumping in to SPFA to do the same thing. 

Yes -- but AVEN is actually a site primarily for asexuals, a kind of safe place to be ourselves, and we may have more cause to kind of shake ourselves and remember that we invite sexuals to participate also.  It's difficult to go somewhere that you think of as your "home" and hear criticism of what you are.

[Rain dancer81]

10 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes -- but AVEN is actually a site primarily for asexuals, a kind of safe place to be ourselves, and we may have more cause to kind of shake ourselves and remember that we invite sexuals to participate also.  It's difficult to go somewhere that you think of as your "home" and hear criticism of what you are.

Yes agreed. There’s really very few places out there for asexual people to share their thoughts with fellow asexuals but then the conversations get muddy as the opinions of sexual people chime in. 

[Rain dancer81]

34 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Sexual here to say I completely understand. I genuinely try not to do that except for those (many) threads where the ace asks for sexuals' input.

 

There are sexuals who feel exactly the same way about aces jumping in to SPFA to do the same thing. 

Yes, I could see that, perhaps we should all stay to our own sections. I’d be up for that if it meant the only audience I was talking to were fellow asexuals … although I always find your comments quite neutral and understanding @Ollie415 so thank you. If everyone were like that it would be no issue 

[Olallieberry]

54 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes -- but AVEN is actually a site primarily for asexuals, a kind of safe place to be ourselves, and we may have more cause to kind of shake ourselves and remember that we invite sexuals to participate also.  It's difficult to go somewhere that you think of as your "home" and hear criticism of what you are.

Maybe we should continue spelling out the leading F on FSPFA instead of leaving it off, in order to indicate that it’s a home “For” the SPFA’s instead of just some place to discuss the subject of SPFA’s as if they weren’t in the room - or, as if it weren’t their room.

 

I don’t want asexual people to be uninvited from FSPFA, don’t take it that way, but it would be nice if, on a site which is primarily for asexuals, the place carved out “For SPFA’s” were perceived as primarily for them. It’s difficult to go somewhere that you think of as your “home” and yada yada the rest.

[Sally]

23 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

the place carved out “For SPFA’s” were perceived as primarily for them. It’s difficult to go somewhere that you think of as your “home” and yada yada the rest.

I think of the SPFA section of AVEN as being where sexuals can talk with asexuals.    it may be the only place where conversations like that can happen.  There are many places off AVEN for sexuals to talk with fellow sexuals.  

 

And the "yada yada yada" is kind of rude.

[Liara]

Do you prefer sexual people stay only in FSPFA? Just to know if it could make everyone more comfortable...

[Rain dancer81]

9 minutes ago, Liara said:

Do you prefer sexual people stay only in FSPFA? Just to know if it could make everyone more comfortable...

 I find you to be a friendly ally personally. 🙂 in general, I stopped posting because people would jump on and remind me how hurt/unattractive/deceived they felt when their spouse told them they were asexual. Sore spot for me as I feel plenty of guilt and shame for coming out after being married over a decade. I think as long as you don’t side with a sexual partner who is not even on the site your fine. 

[Olallieberry]

43 minutes ago, Sally said:

the "yada yada yada" is kind of rude.

I didn't mean it that way, I wasn't trying to dismiss your comment. Reduplicating it in its entirety seemed to me to be rather mocking, that's why I chose against that.

[Olallieberry]

45 minutes ago, Sally said:

There are many places off AVEN for sexuals to talk with fellow sexuals.  

About asexuals, including their partners?

 

There are such places.

 

They're horrible.

 

I'm sure you can imagine how it goes when asexuals aren't in the room.

[Sally]

6 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

About asexuals, including their partners?

 

There are such places.

 

They're horrible.

 

I'm sure you can imagine how it goes when asexuals aren't in the room.

Considering how things sometimes go when asexuals are in the room, I don't think I want to know.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Diversity of thoughts is good. Would be nice for there to be more respect around though but it's still the internet.

 

Extra thoughts:
Stopping blame is good. Feeling pressured to have sex is bad.

[Guest]

Since joining this forum, as a sexual married to a non sexual, I have had lots of great input from asexuals here as well as sexuals. I would be very sorry if we were placed in silos.

I have lived in many countries where I have found that whenever people don't learn the language, stay only with their own, there's often a bitch session amongst themselves about the country which is hosting them. This is also true of expats.

Personally, I've always hated that, because oftentimes it's limiting and borne of ignorance, not knowing or wanting to know.

Similarly, I care about women's issues, but I don't think I would want to exclude men in that conversation.

The title of this thread is stop the blaming game. I take this on board fully. If I read without blame and truly listen to what is being said, shed  the prejudices that don't make me listen and understand others, then this is a place where I can grow, learn, understand and accept my fellow human beings for who they are. 

[Sally]

36 minutes ago, Astutusdomina said:

I would be very sorry if we were placed in silos.

That's not going to happen.  Sexuals who are involved with asexuals will always have a place here.