Doing it Alone and Partner's Opinion Expressed (TMI)

[Lady Girl]

I think Sally and Choose Your Battles said it best. It can be a reminder of the asexual partner's 'shortcoming'. In other words, they may think to themselves, my partner wouldn't need to do that if I were satisfying them...and actually that is an idea I've seen conveyed when two sexual people are involved as well. There are also other reasons, such as repulsion and religious beliefs as well.

I personally think the two things are very much related as they both involve the genitals and the stimulation of them.

[Notte stellata]

I see the point that masturbation can be a reminder of the asexual partner's 'shortcoming'. But first, the 'shortcoming', or sexual incompatibility, is already there anyway, no matter the sexual partner masturbates or not; second, shouldn't the asexual partner be somewhat relieved that their sexual partner can take care of their own sexual needs? It's not the same as partnered sex, but it does help release the sexual tension, and takes some pressure off from the asexual. Yes, they may still feel uncomfortable, but then they can ask the sexual to do it in private. Would they rather have their partner suppress their sexual desire and have no release at all?

[DracoBorealis]

I am a somewhat-repulsed asexual who has never had a relationship nor do I want one --but that kind of attitude seems rather cold and selfish to me.

I understand the need for release that sexuals experience, and if I were in a relationship with a sexual I would never tell him off for masturbating. Cheating is something I do not tolerate, and I would definitely compromise that little bit so that it wouldn't come to that. IMO all relationships are just that, mutual compromising and finding a balance. It's not a balance if the compromising works only in one direction. If neither, or only one party, is willing to work in order to make the relationship successful, then it's probably best to stop it right there before anyone gets hurt.

[Lady Girl]

I was just saying why this might happen. I'm not saying what the asexual would rather their partner do, or if it's selfish or whatever. I'm just saying I do understand why an asexual might express a derogatory opinion about it.

I will also suggest one other possibility...and yes it is slightly personal. My husband knows I have never been into it, never for 25 years was it something I cared to do, except on the very rarest of occasions (an attempt at substitution? I don't know). I have also expressed irritation with the suggestion made by some asexuals to sexuals...why don't you just masturbate, and leave your asexual partner alone? I'm pretty sure one of the reasons he's not encouraging me is because of the myriad of issues I have with it myself.

I said before I think it is very similar to sex, and I do think that (in that I think it is a sexual act), however, I also feel it is not a substitution for partnered sex. So perhaps, some asexuals will express disapproval because they suspect it could create more problems for the sexual partner and would not provide relief or release.

[Guest]

I don't much care if my partner masturbates, as long as he does it in private, but I don't like the idea of him masturbating to videos / pictures of other women naked. That, to me, is as much cheating as if he slept with another woman. And I am as comfortable with either thing, as in, if it is a requirement for them not so interested in a relationship. My partner has even said he gets off on porn when he watches it by his imagination putting himself in the place of the man in the videos, in his mind doing all those things to the woman he finds attractive (in fact he can only use male/female for that reason). He has known this, I keep it no secret. I also leave an invitation open to guys I date they can have personal videos if they want them. And I am pretty sex neutral, at one point 7x a day (omg boring though lol). None of the guys I have dated have had issues with this arrangement. Most just did it in the shower. *shrug*

But, I can understand why someone would feel they are "failing" their partner sexual or asexual. I hear so often "oh no sex for you while in the dog house, enjoy your hand!" And other such comments so often from people, like masturbating is something they have to do during "punishment" cause they can't have sex. Not something done even during a healthy sexual/sexual relationship, or mixed, or single or whtever. Especially a guy, since women being "pleased" is pushed so hard as a way to prove you are a "man". With an ace who already feels bad about it, I can see why there would be negative feelings.

But, one can't police a partners body. So should never ask someone to not masturbate.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

I don't much care if my partner masturbates, as long as he does it in private, but I don't like the idea of him masturbating to videos / pictures of other women naked. That, to me, is as much cheating as if he slept with another woman. And I am as comfortable with either thing, as in, if it is a requirement for them not so interested in a relationship. My partner has even said he gets off on porn when he watches it by his imagination putting himself in the place of the man in the videos, in his mind doing all those things to the woman he finds attractive (in fact he can only use male/female for that reason).

I was going to say it's kinda a harsh stretch to call it "cheating", but I can see your point, I think - seeing as it really does seem to be so much about mentally placing himself in the shoes of someone having sex with the other women. Hmmm.

But of course, this concept is a huge "demi moment" for me. The idea of placing myself in the shoes of the man in a porn video and having with with some random woman? Wut? :D

[Notte stellata]

I don't much care if my partner masturbates, as long as he does it in private, but I don't like the idea of him masturbating to videos / pictures of other women naked. That, to me, is as much cheating as if he slept with another woman.

So...just curious: what exactly do you consider as cheating, looking at other naked women, or fantasizing about them? What if he watches porn without imagining himself in the sex scene (e.g. my partner almost exclusively watches lesbian porn simply because he's turned on by lesbian sex)? What if he fantasizes about women not in the porn, like his coworkers or passersby?

Personally I don't think either watching porn or fantasizing about others is cheating. Especially that fantasies are all in one's head which you can't see anyway. I'd say it's too harsh to consider watching porn as cheating...But as long as you and your partner can reach an agreement, that's good. :)

[Guest]

Any ACTIVE pursuit of a third party for sexual gratification, probably simplest way to define it for me. Stray thoughts, dreams etc are not in someones control and don't bother me. But, if my partner actively seeks out another person to look at / daydream about / pretend to do things with to be sexually aroused and masturbate, my ability to have sex with them becomes nil. Looking at videos of Sandy in another country, or having Stef from work do those things in front of him, he is still using a third party for sexual pleasure. I know plenty watch it in or out of relationships and don't take it farther, I know some don't focus on the people as much as acts and I know many share it with their partners. But, no amount of logically explaining it can change my feelings. Like an open relationship, it just doesn't feel right. And triggers sexual repulsion in me. If someone makes regular use of porn, there is no way I could comfortably have sex with them.

Now, normal reasons people try to tell for these feelings is insecurity, body image issues etc. No. I am reasonably attractive, I know men find me so, have been offered modeling gigs (ew) etc. No issues with my body, I know my partner finds me attractive. And I don't care if he finds other women attractive, he even remarks on womens chests etc, doesn't bug me. We watch movies and stuff, I am a tad bit uncomfortable with nude scenes, but meh not a huge deal. I don't care if he sees naked women from normal sites, like 4chan, or sex toy ordering etc. I know which of the women he works with he finds attractive, I also know he tends to innocently flirt, don't care. Partners have had friendships with exes before, didn't bug me. It is the actually seeking out another person for sexual pleasure that triggers it, in whatever form. I could _probably_ handle that even if they didn't want sex with *me*. It isn't even really the seeing it so much, since when my exes friends put porn on when we were at their house I wasn't bothered, since my partner had no arousal or interest in it. And when my first bf looked when his friends went "topless girl!" I teased him, but wasn't mad at him when he turned to look. So no, not really very jealous either.

It may have something to do with the fact I experience no sexual or aesthetic attraction myself, nor do I masturbate (except when requested to do so on film for someone) and receive no physical pleasure from sexual acts. I can mentally reason away most sexual acts being open and honestly poly makes logical sense, so does watching porn. But, neither work for me on an emotional level. *shrug* I know I am weird. :) And picky .. about many things, ha.

My partner was never really into porn to begin with, used it sparingly when single. He is more a shower and get off in morning and have it all wash away kinda person. So it isn't a big deal to him. Past partners simply had me make videos for their use. It has never been an issue really. Something discussed prior to a relationship and never really brought up again. Only one person has had any issue with it and honestly.. he had trouble with mono period and hopefully he found the couple sharing arrangement he so desired ( two m/f couples who shared partners and had foursomes together, but maintained primaries and separate lives as couples was his dream, didn't tell me til a year in).

Hopefully that explains it in detail enough to satisfy your curiosity. :) I don't have any issues with others using it in relationships and if both enjoy it, yay.

[Notte stellata]

@Liara: Thanks for the detailed explanation! Now I have a much better understanding about your stance. :) I can kind of see why someone (especially an asexual who doesn't enjoy sex) would lose interest in having sex with a partner who actively seeks a third party for sexual gratification.

[Faust Darkwell]

Oh, if my partners wanted that much control, I'd tell them off. They don't own my body.

[Goldberry]

TMI

When I got my first vibrator I didn't mention it and he became quite upset when he found out about it, and at that point I was so horny I wanted to use it at least once a day and it was a hassle to hide the whole process (long baths with some splashing ).

Do personal electronics and water mix? :o

There are a plethora of waterproof vibrators! (I was interested in vibrators as a teen, but once I was old enough to buy a decent one...my libido had disappeared). *sigh*

[Lady Girl]

Oh, if my partners wanted that much control, I'd tell them off. They don't own my body.

I just wonder if an asexual partner expressing a desire that the sexual partner not masturbate for whatever reason is that much different from a sexual partner asking the asexual partner to have sex with them. Aren't both simply examples of a partner asking the other to do or not do something with their body that they wouldn't choose if it weren't for the partner?

I fully realize that the final decision belongs to each individual regarding what they will or won't do. I don't think I ever expressed an issue with control anyway...

[Guest]

I just wonder if an asexual partner expressing a desire that the sexual partner not masturbate for whatever reason is that much different from a sexual partner asking the asexual partner to have sex with them. Aren't both simply examples of a partner asking the other to do or not do something with their body that they wouldn't choose if it weren't for the partner?

I think there's a massive difference in that the sexual asking for sex involves the partner's body by necessity, and thus naturally calls for a veto right. The sexual partner masturbating however doesn't involve the ace at all.

One is inherently mutual business, the other is "most definitely non'a yours!". ;)

[Lady Girl]

I just wonder if an asexual partner expressing a desire that the sexual partner not masturbate for whatever reason is that much different from a sexual partner asking the asexual partner to have sex with them. Aren't both simply examples of a partner asking the other to do or not do something with their body that they wouldn't choose if it weren't for the partner?

I think there's a massive difference in that the sexual asking for sex involves the partner's body by necessity, and thus naturally calls for a veto right. The sexual partner masturbating however doesn't involve the ace at all.

One is inherently mutual business, the other is "most definitely non'a yours!". ;)

I kind of think each person decides for themselves what is nobody else's business. Some people do allow, and may actually invite others into situations that you would always say is off limits.

I personally think they are similar, but I can see how you do not. -_-

[Guest]

I kind of think each person decides for themselves what is nobody else's business. Some people do allow, and may actually invite others into situations that you would always say is off limits.

I personally think they are similar, but I can see how you do not. -_-

Sorry, I guess I didn't mark for subjectivity enough.

I suppose everyone's different on the scale of autonomy vs. symbiosis they want in a 'ship... I'm pretty extreme on the autonomy side, so I'd be quick to reject such (as I see it) meddling from a partner. :)

[Nameless123]

I think there's a massive difference in that the sexual asking for sex involves the partner's body by necessity, and thus naturally calls for a veto right. The sexual partner masturbating however doesn't involve the ace at all.

One is inherently mutual business, the other is "most definitely non'a yours!". ;)

I have to say even though I understand the subjectivity issue raised, it is correct that the moment something does not only involve a person's own body but that of another person as well the rules are simply different.

Personally I insist on complete autonomy when it comes to my own body, and because of this fact I cannot in good conscience deny someone else that same autonomy. Which to me includes the right to masturbate.

[Lady Girl]

I guess I really don't get the difference between me saying to him do this with your body to assist me, and him saying to me I don't think you should do that with your body. It's all talk...we both get to ultimately decide autonomously what we will actually do. To me that is the bottom line, we both do decide for ourselves. I cannot in good conscience tell him he has no right to express to me his preference anymore than he would do that to me.

I don't have any more of an issue with this than him telling me how he likes my hair. It's okay for him to say. I still choose for myself if I will wear it that way or not.

[jojo2003]

With the risk of intruding in someone else's discussion I think LG and Mysticus, you both mean the same, but use different wordings or appraoches. Bottom line in both of your entries is that ultimately it is your own body and you who decides what to do.

Mysticus means to say that you can not prohibit someone from doing something that does not involve you and LG you are saying that freedom means that a partner can offer his or her opinion. That is a different angle to the partner's role.

To round it up. Mysticus, bearing in mind youre advocacy for freedom of opinion and body, you should also be an advocate for the asexual partner to be able to speak his or her opinion.

LG, being a keen advocate of compromise and talking about your relationship, you should also be adverse to one of the partners bluntly forbidding the other to do something which does not involve the other.

See, you guys do have the same opinion, it's just that you look at the issue from an different angle. ;)

And I still do not understand why my asexual partner is having problems with me doing it alone, but will discuss this at home sometime.

[Guest]

@jojo... you do have a point there.

I still think that what I said about the autonomy-symbiosis slide stands; I'd see reacting to a partner's opinion to the other's masturbation by "I heard and acknowledge your opinion, but that will have no bearing on my actions at all" as a perfectly respectful and healthy answer. Someone far towards the symbiosis end would feel ignored/invalidated by that reply, I guess, possibly even seeing it as a lack of love.

[Guest]

Any ACTIVE pursuit of a third party for sexual gratification, probably simplest way to define it for me. Stray thoughts, dreams etc are not in someones control and don't bother me. But, if my partner actively seeks out another person to look at / daydream about / pretend to do things with to be sexually aroused and masturbate, my ability to have sex with them becomes nil. Looking at videos of Sandy in another country, or having Stef from work do those things in front of him, he is still using a third party for sexual pleasure .

This is... well, for one thing, it's incorrect. thinking about someone isn't using them in any way. If Bob thinks about my image while jerking off, thats all it is... it's just an image that resembles my physicality. But it isn't ME. I can tell because I am not transported into Bob's bedroom everytime he thinks of my image.

Thinking of an image isn't the same thing as having physical interaction with someone. If you hate ice cream but I imagine you eating ice cream, you would have absolutely no moral ground to attack me for making you eat ice cream. Why? Because I didn't make YOU do anything... Images in our heads aren't real people. At the end of the day you're trying to police something you have no right or ability to police.

[Guest]

So, I can post images of myself naked online, because it isn't using ME it should be OK, yes?

Any ACTIVE pursuit of a third party for sexual gratification, probably simplest way to define it for me. Stray thoughts, dreams etc are not in someones control and don't bother me. But, if my partner actively seeks out another person to look at / daydream about / pretend to do things with to be sexually aroused and masturbate, my ability to have sex with them becomes nil. Looking at videos of Sandy in another country, or having Stef from work do those things in front of him, he is still using a third party for sexual pleasure .

This is... well, for one thing, it's incorrect. thinking about someone isn't using them in any way. If Bob thinks about my image while jerking off, thats all it is... it's just an image that resembles my physicality. But it isn't ME. I can tell because I am not transported into Bob's bedroom everytime he thinks of my image.

Thinking of an image isn't the same thing as having physical interaction with someone. If you hate ice cream but I imagine you eating ice cream, you would have absolutely no moral ground to attack me for making you eat ice cream. Why? Because I didn't make YOU do anything... Images in our heads aren't real people. At the end of the day you're trying to police something you have no right or ability to police.

By that logic, I can post pictures of myself naked masturbating online and since it's not using ME, my partner has no right to complain. But he'd call it cheating and end the relationship. Another guy wouldn't care. Another person might encourage it (I dated one guy once who would encourage it). Not everyone has the same viewpoints on a relationship. And if my partner doesn't care, I don't see how you can tell me what I have a right to feel or not, honestly. I can't _make_ myself have sex with someone I have no comfort having sex with. Porn makes sex off the table, it causes repulsion and extreme discomfort verging on the discomfort I felt during sexual abuse in my past. In the end, it's his decision, not mine. If he doesn't like it, he's perfectly within his right to end the relationship, or not begin it. To him no sex is no relationship, to me porn means no sex. So, no i'm not really "policing" anything, I am being honest with my partner about how I feel and then the balls in his court. I didn't hide it from him, at all, he knew my feelings on most subjects before anything started - kids, drugs, smoking, drinking, porn, I even told him I had little interest in sex especially after the first 6 months of a relationship, even though I didn't know asexual was a label. And feelings don't have to be logical, they just are. Logically, I shouldn't be with someone I disagree with on so much. Logically, I should be with someone who makes more money. Logically, I should be with another ace. Logically, I should be poly, because logically that philosophy makes the most sense to me. Well, you get the point.

But, honestly, he had stopped watching porn way before he started dating me, so it was a moot point to begin with. :P He's more the go to a bar and pickup random woman X, or keep a black book full of numbers and call through for random woman Y than go to a website and watch woman with fake boobs and too much makeup fake enjoying sex with some guy. Rare times he does masturbate, it's in the shower to something in his head. What is in his head is his business, I don't even ask. Though, sometimes he tells me anyways.

[Ariesmom07]

Honestly I think it is selfish of your partner to make comments or have issue with self gratification. You have excepted and loved him for who he is and he should realize that as much as being asexual is a part of him being sexual is a part of you. Luckily my husband doesn't mind at all and would actually go with me to pick out "toys" haha. If my husband did have a problem with my porn and toy addiction we would probably have a real issue in our marriage because I rely on those things to cope with our lack of sex.

[< retired >]

TMI

When I got my first vibrator I didn't mention it and he became quite upset when he found out about it, and at that point I was so horny I wanted to use it at least once a day and it was a hassle to hide the whole process (long baths with some splashing ).

Do personal electronics and water mix? :o

There are a plethora of waterproof vibrators! (I was interested in vibrators as a teen, but once I was old enough to buy a decent one...my libido had disappeared). *sigh*

Wikipedia on waterproof vibrators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterproof_vibrator

From someone's blog: (source - http://edgydesignstees.com/blog/?p=75)

Toronto- What started as an innocent affair nearly cost a Canadian woman her life. Twenty three year old Sherry Ann Cuppley, an out of work seamstress last employed by Interesting Apparel apparently began an affair last summer with a coworker at the same company. Lloyd Shipperman, 45, a night janitor, put the brakes on the tryst after he began receiving late night phone calls from Ms. Cuppley demanding immediate sexual satisfaction. Struck with the combined pain of losing her companion as well as her lover, the woman quit her job and retreated to her apartment with her only solace, her vibrator whom she affectionately called, “Peter.”

Ignoring the warnings clearly labeled on the device to use it for a maximum of one hour per session, Ms. Cuppley typically enjoyed the device for up to 4 ½ hours at a time all the while engaging in activities such as ironing, chatting on her cell phone, and preparing dinner. Last Thursday, at approximately 7:30 pm CST, the vibrator, a JoyToy model JT324 short circuited and nearly electrocuted the woman. She was immediately taken to Toronto’s Baptist Hospital, vibrator intact, where she was treated for minor burns and is expected to make a complete recovery.

JoyToy’s chief design engineer, Leonard Hazbro II issued the following statement, “While our products are certainly intended to provide maximum pleasure and can become addicting as demonstrated in this case, they must be used with caution and restraint which is understandably difficult. We at JoyToy Pleasure Products are thankful that Ms. Cuppley did not sustain major injuries and she will be given a complimentary JHD940, a heavy duty rechargeable model intended for long session use.” Both Cuppley and Lloyd Shippman were unavailable for comment.

[Purnkin Spurce]

Your partner should be more understanding and accepting of you you've managed to find your own way to get pleasure out of the relationship and yourself. I think you are being very considerate of his sexuality and by doing so, you have found other means of sexual actives It is YOUR body and your sexual urges and if you want to watch porn, use vibrators, then go right ahead. I don't think he has the right to make you feel like it's a problem or it's wrong. It's normal and I can understand why you do it.

[Flapdoodle21]

It may be that the asexual partners mentioned here simply feel like they are incapable of fulfilling their sexual partner's needs/desires. i have been in a relationship where I felt that way. Personally, I would never ask the person to stop gratifying themselves just because it made me feel crummy, but it did make me feel crummy.

Knowing that your partner wants something that you aren't giving them sort of pressures you to give it to them, even though in most cases the sexual partner is trying to do the opposite.