Doing it Alone and Partner's Opinion Expressed (TMI)

[Catsongea]

I read this forum when I am going thru sad/angry phase of my now twelve year relationship with a wonderful - but asexual man. I have never been able to have sex without wanting a deeper relationship and it would be outside the current boundaries of our relationship so having a bit on the side wouldn't work for me. I have gone with an option that isn't mentioned much which is that I have developed a very close relationship with vibrators and pornography (erotic e-books) which I indulge in every couple of days - more regularly than I had sex in my previous marraige.

But it is hurtful to know that the one person in the world that should care about my sexuallity acts like I am bad and wrong for this which is the only way I can manage. Sort of as if I was an alcoholic. I feel he should be pleased that this solution works for me and encouraging me instead of dismissive.

[Lady Girl]

My husband is also against that for some reason. I suspect that he feels it would make me want more sex with him and I think he is possibly correct. I have never been into it, so it isn't a real problem to abstain.

[jojo2003]

I read this forum when I am going thru sad/angry phase of my now twelve year relationship with a wonderful - but asexual man. I have never been able to have sex without wanting a deeper relationship and it would be outside the current boundaries of our relationship so having a bit on the side wouldn't work for me. I have gone with an option that isn't mentioned much which is that I have developed a very close relationship with vibrators and pornography (erotic e-books) which I indulge in every couple of days - more regularly than I had sex in my previous marraige.

But it is hurtful to know that the one person in the world that should care about my sexuallity acts like I am bad and wrong for this which is the only way I can manage. Sort of as if I was an alcoholic. I feel he should be pleased that this solution works for me and encouraging me instead of dismissive.

My husband is also against that for some reason. I suspect that he feels it would make me want more sex with him and I think he is possibly correct. I have never been into it, so it isn't a real problem to abstain.

Hello Catsongea,

It is true that your option is not mentioned very much, although I think there are more sexuals using it. In my case not the vibrator-part though.

My partner is not capable of any sexual relations and I cannot be in a sexual relation with someone I don't have a deeper relationship with either, so for me the only relief is masturbation. And on some level it works, but sometimes the need only grows.

Somehow, my partner also is not a great fan of this release-option. You would say that as long as it does not concern them, they would not mind. I don't have a logical explanation for it. Maybe it is the way LG describes and does this also awakens a fear of wanting more.

[mrbeanatural]

Hi Catsongea,

I agree that this is the '4th option that shall not be named. ' If your asexual partner is not open to an open marriage, (mine isn't) then your options are limited to cheating and/or porn. Cheating is kind of up there with leaving, and if you're not there yet, that leaves porn and self gratification. I think I indulge in this more often now than I ever did as a single man. Perhaps because living with someone I'm sexually attracted to, I'm reminded of what I'm missing all the time. It does tend to help help, but as often as not, leaves me feeling empty, and a little pathetic. To make matters worse, my wife disappoves, and has even criticized me for it. I suspect this is out of her own insecurity, but I was and am a bit incredulous by her reaction. So not only is the partner unwilling to fulfill your needs, you're not allowed to fulfill them AT ALL? Seems callous and cruel to me.

But as I said, it's just as valid a way of dealing with the situation as any. The lesser evil as it were. I wish you luck with your situation.

[Einy]

So not only is the partner unwilling to fulfill your needs, you're not allowed to fulfill them AT ALL? Seems callous and cruel to me.

Yes.I find it quite selfish. If your partner doesn't want to have sex with you (or not as often as you would like to) and you're not allowed to masturbate/ watch porn/ use toys, that sounds very cruel to me. Your partner should accept your sexuality as well as you accept their asexuality.

[Catsongea]

He decided that masturbation was an acceptable solution. I indulge when he goes off to the gym (we work together in a business from our home). He knows I do this and it only gets tricky over the holidays and vacations. What sparked the snarky remark from him was when he asked what I wanted for christmas and I asked for a gift voucher for the adult toy store.

This was obviously too provocative - but part of me thinks 'it REALLY shouldn't be this way with my partner'.

I do get what you all are saying, it is not as fulfilling as real sex with someone who loves you and it does leave me always a bit 'hungry' - I refuse to think of it as pathetic and prefer to think of it as taking charge of myself. I tell myself that he and I have a great relationship apart from this and in my previous marraige we only had sex once or twice a week after the first couple of years, so this is really a small part of a long term relationship, and I am really just focusing on it because it isn't there and I want it. Most of the time it isn't a big deal and I just carry on, but sometimes I do get unhappy about it and feel the whole thing is unfair. I chose to stay in the relationship after it became clear that to do so meant I might never have sex with a real person again so it is really unfair of me and unproductive to complain. Thanks for listening.

As with many of the rest of you this forum has been a blessing to know that I am not alone and to help in understanding my partner.

[Guest]

So not only is the partner unwilling to fulfill your needs, you're not allowed to fulfill them AT ALL? Seems callous and cruel to me.

Yes.I find it quite selfish. If your partner doesn't want to have sex with you (or not as often as you would like to) and you're not allowed to masturbate/ watch porn/ use toys, that sounds very cruel to me. Your partner should accept your sexuality as well as you accept their asexuality.

Repulsed asexual here, and I agree 100%! "Allowing" the "right to masturbate" is a "compromise" that I think the sexual partner has every right to ultimatively demand - no discussion, end of story, my way or the highway (you do know where the door is, right, honey?). If you don't want to make that ultimatum... well, much as I'm for honesty, I'd say do it behind their back and let them sort out alone how they feel about it should they ever find out, without any need to be apologetic about it. You have every right to ignore presumptuous complaints in this case, and every right not to bother about any hurt feelings about it. It's their problem, don't make it yours - no matter whether you're partners or not.

It's ridiculous to me that any asexual partner thinks they should ever have right for a say in that matter, and astonishing that any sexual partner would ever put up with that control/meddling.

(Yeah, control-freaky jerkassery like this makes me angry. *takes ten deep breaths* )

[Notte stellata]

"Allowing" the "right to masturbate" is a "compromise" that I think the sexual partner has every right to ultimatively demand - no discussion, end of story, my way or the highway (you do know where the door is, right, honey?). If you don't want to make that ultimatum... well, much as I'm for honesty, I'd say do it behind their back and let them sort out alone how they feel about it should they ever find out, without any need to be apologetic about it. You have every right to ignore presumptuous complaints in this case, and every right not to bother about any hurt feelings about it. It's their problem, don't make it yours - no matter whether you're partners or not.

It's ridiculous to me that any asexual partner thinks they should ever have right for a say in that matter, and astonishing that any sexual partner would ever put up with that control/meddling.

(Yeah, control-freaky jerkassery like this makes me angry. *takes ten deep breaths* )

+1

I think masturbation is a 100% personal matter. It's your body - you don't need anyone's permission to do it, and no one has the right to say you can't. This isn't even a special issue in mixed relationships - even in sexual/sexual relationships, plenty of people still masturbate or watch porn for various reasons.

I really don't understand what's going on in some asexual partners' heads. No sex, no open relationship, and even no masturbation? Cruel indeed. They're trying to deny their partner's sexuality, which is part of their identity. If I was a sexual in such a relationship, I'd leave in a heartbeat, not only for lack of sex, but also for lack of respect.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

I really don't understand what's going on in some asexual partners' heads. No sex, no open relationship, and even no masturbation?

I had an ex who didn't like the idea of me masturbating - this was a "standard" sexual relationship basically by the way - someone I was already with long enough for it to be sexualised and all, etc. Anyways...

I asked her why it's a problem, and she couldn't really explain, just said something about it feelingly vaguely wrong to be "doing anything sexual at all unless it's with each other". This was only when we were near each other though, and easy to access, lol. I don't think she cared about masturbation when we were apart, like if one of us was out of town or whatever.

Another funny thing: my very first ex - who was a hardcore Christian and didn't believe in sex before marriage, was hugely into porn and masturbation. I always found that slightly bizarre.

But yeah, I totally agree that it's entirely a private thing. "Controlling" my masturbation habits is like telling me how to go to the toilet. :lol:

[Lady Girl]

"Allowing" the "right to masturbate" is a "compromise" that I think the sexual partner has every right to ultimatively demand - no discussion, end of story, my way or the highway (you do know where the door is, right, honey?). If you don't want to make that ultimatum... well, much as I'm for honesty, I'd say do it behind their back and let them sort out alone how they feel about it should they ever find out, without any need to be apologetic about it. You have every right to ignore presumptuous complaints in this case, and every right not to bother about any hurt feelings about it. It's their problem, don't make it yours - no matter whether you're partners or not.

It's ridiculous to me that any asexual partner thinks they should ever have right for a say in that matter, and astonishing that any sexual partner would ever put up with that control/meddling.

(Yeah, control-freaky jerkassery like this makes me angry. *takes ten deep breaths* )

+1

I think masturbation is a 100% personal matter. It's your body - you don't need anyone's permission to do it, and no one has the right to say you can't. This isn't even a special issue in mixed relationships - even in sexual/sexual relationships, plenty of people still masturbate or watch porn for various reasons.

I really don't understand what's going on in some asexual partners' heads. No sex, no open relationship, and even no masturbation? Cruel indeed. They're trying to deny their partner's sexuality, which is part of their identity. If I was a sexual in such a relationship, I'd leave in a heartbeat, not only for lack of sex, but also for lack of respect.

The thing is, he can have his opinion about it and it will probably have an affect on my decision (as I mentioned before, I'm not into it anyway). Almost all the sexuals talking about it have expressed the fact that it leaves them 'hungry', and this is not unfamiliar to me...him suspecting that it could lead to pressure from me again is not far fetched. As you have all mentioned it is ultimately my decision.

However, him expressing what he has about it is not a flag to me, and for sure not a time for the highway moment. I've noticed that some people have strong feelings of nobody will tell me about me or we are so over. The actual fact is, if you don't like it you do leave. Other people are okay telling each other stuff they would prefer they not do and they work with these sorts of issues in the relationship.

Expressing desires (reasonable or not!) doesn't always make the relationship unhealthy...I guess is my point.

[Lady Girl]

This thread has been split from "How do you handle it? Sad...depressed...(ideas appreciated)" because it was becoming a separate idea from the original topic. Since it seemed an interesting discussion was forming, this new thread will give it the space it deserves.

Lady Girl, Moderator

[mrbeanatural]

I didn't want to give anyone the impression that I was somehow forbidden from doing it. She has only expressed how it upsets her and asked that I be discreet about it. This can be a challenge all it's own living in a small house, but you do what you can. I think she feels as though it's somehow rubbing her nose in what she sees as 'her deficiency.' That if she weren't 'broken' then it wouldn't happen as much or even at all.

[jojo2003]

The thing is, he can have his opinion about it and it will probably have an affect on my decision (as I mentioned before, I'm not into it anyway). Almost all the sexuals talking about it have expressed the fact that it leaves them 'hungry', and this is not unfamiliar to me...him suspecting that it could lead to pressure from me again is not far fetched. As you have all mentioned it is ultimately my decision.

However, him expressing what he has about it is not a flag to me, and for sure not a time for the highway moment. I've noticed that some people have strong feelings of nobody will tell me about me or we are so over. The actual fact is, if you don't like it you do leave. Other people are okay telling each other stuff they would prefer they not do and they work with these sorts of issues in the relationship.

Expressing desires (reasonable or not!) doesn't always make the relationship unhealthy...I guess is my point.

I think LG there is major difference in explaining one's preferences to eachother and outright telling someone what (not) to do. As I said, my partner is not a big fan of the idea, which suprised me. And I see that the partner of Mrbeanatural feels along the same lines in this discussion. However, even if my partner would tell me that I could not masturbate (in that insensitive manner) I think talking about it would be a better option than the "highway" option.

I merely tried to express my suprise about this attitude of my partner. It does not involve her, so why would she bother to feel anything about it. But I do understand the point mrbeanatural makes. Maybe it does confront my partner with her deficiency. Then again, we are confronted with the descrepancy in our relations on all sorts of levels, so why make a big deal out of this?

You see, I am not getting my head around this at this moment.

[Lady Girl]

It's fine...my issue is this, what initially started out as someone saying their partner did not support them in their efforts to take care of it alone turned into people saying this was denying permission and how dare they!

My point is that there can be numerous reasons an asexual says they don't approve. Partners often don't approve of something the other does...this should be no different. I'm saying we can respect their view without following it or following it, either way. Expressing disapproval is not the same as permission granting to me and I feel that some of the statements implied it is.

That was all I meant.

[Vampyremage]

So not only is the partner unwilling to fulfill your needs, you're not allowed to fulfill them AT ALL? Seems callous and cruel to me.

Yes.I find it quite selfish. If your partner doesn't want to have sex with you (or not as often as you would like to) and you're not allowed to masturbate/ watch porn/ use toys, that sounds very cruel to me. Your partner should accept your sexuality as well as you accept their asexuality.

Repulsed asexual here, and I agree 100%! "Allowing" the "right to masturbate" is a "compromise" that I think the sexual partner has every right to ultimatively demand - no discussion, end of story, my way or the highway (you do know where the door is, right, honey?). If you don't want to make that ultimatum... well, much as I'm for honesty, I'd say do it behind their back and let them sort out alone how they feel about it should they ever find out, without any need to be apologetic about it. You have every right to ignore presumptuous complaints in this case, and every right not to bother about any hurt feelings about it. It's their problem, don't make it yours - no matter whether you're partners or not.

It's ridiculous to me that any asexual partner thinks they should ever have right for a say in that matter, and astonishing that any sexual partner would ever put up with that control/meddling.

(Yeah, control-freaky jerkassery like this makes me angry. *takes ten deep breaths* )

I would not even consider masturbation to be a matter of compromise at all. One has the right to do with one's own body as one pleases and that includes masturbation. Because no one else is involved in the act, no one else, and that includes the other partner, has the right to demand one stop. Even as an asexual, I would have a huge issue with any partner of mine who demanded that I stopped masturbating. I think its unfair and something that, in the vast majority of cases, shouldn't even be on the table as a part of any sort of compromise, it should be a given.

[jojo2003]

It's fine...my issue is this. What initially started out as someone saying their partner did not support them in their efforts to take care of it alone turned into people saying this was denying permission and how dare they!

My point is that there can be numerous reasons an asexual says they don't approve. Partners often don't approve of something the other does...this should be no different. I'm saying we can respect their view without following it or following it, either way. Expressing disapproval is not the same as permission granting to me and I feel that some of the statements implied it is.

That was all I meant.

I agree this was not your issue, but it seems to be an issue in some cases and the original post could be read as that the partner is denying the masturbation. Apparently there are two seperate discussions. Where one is absolutely right that you can not deny someone something he or she does to there own body and two you can not change the fact that the other partner feels uncomfortable with it.

But still in the second case I do not understand why our partners do not feel comfortable with it. I mean, I do not do it in front of my partner when she is watching TV or something. I try to consider my partners feelings and only "work out" when she is not around and still it seems to be uncomfortable. There is no proof that it makes me want more (although it sometimes does, I keep that to myself and do not bother my partner with it). So that was the issue I as trying to raise.

Difficult discussion we are getting into.... ;)

[Catsongea]

TMI

When I got my first vibrator I didn't mention it and he became quite upset when he found out about it, and at that point I was so horny I wanted to use it at least once a day and it was a hassle to hide the whole process (long baths with some splashing ).

I think he saw it as sneaking around behind his back and I saw it as dealing with the situation without bothering him. Frankly I feel that any mention of sex is 'a bad thing' around him and avoid it.

[mrbeanatural]

Exactly. No matter the context or the content, the subject of sex almost always leads to an argument, so I've learned to not even bring it up anymore.

[Guest]

@Lady Girl... Of course I think it's something you can (and should) talk about if one of the partners is uneasy about it; I'm all for honest communication, that's something I don't see any healthy 'ship work without. I also think that "don't do it in front of me/in the same room as me, and don't leave your 'tools' (toys, porn, etc.) lying around in the open" is a perfectly reasonable request if the idea of masturbation repulses you.

When it crosses the line into "I expect you as my partner not to do it, ever", that's horribly presumptuous in my eyes... and I do think you have every right to ignore that and ouright refuse to let your partner's issues become your own.

[Sally]

I didn't want to give anyone the impression that I was somehow forbidden from doing it. She has only expressed how it upsets her and asked that I be discreet about it. This can be a challenge all it's own living in a small house, but you do what you can. I think she feels as though it's somehow rubbing her nose in what she sees as 'her deficiency.' That if she weren't 'broken' then it wouldn't happen as much or even at all.

That sounds very likely to me. What asexuals get from society is that everyone likes sex. When you have a partner who likes it and you don't, and your partner needs to do "something" to stay in the relationship, then it just reminds you that you are depriving them of what they really want.

[Notte stellata]

I think she feels as though it's somehow rubbing her nose in what she sees as 'her deficiency.' That if she weren't 'broken' then it wouldn't happen as much or even at all.

The thing is, masturbation is quite normal even in many healthy sexual relationships. Maybe two partners have different levels of sex drive, maybe sometimes one of them isn't in the mood for sex, or maybe sometimes they just prefer to take care of themselves because it's faster. It doesn't have to be that one partner is "broken". For example, my partner needs sexual release at least twice a day. So even if I was a sexual who was up for sex once a day, he'd still need to masturbate every day. Let's face it: you can't fulfill a partner's desire 100%. It's like, suppose you want to go to a concert but your partner doesn't, so you go by yourself. What's the big deal?

@Lady Girl... Of course I think it's something you can (and should) talk about if one of the partners is uneasy about it; I'm all for honest communication, that's something I don't see any healthy 'ship work without. I also think that "don't do it in front of me/in the same room as me, and don't leave your 'tools' (toys, porn, etc.) lying around in the open" is a perfectly reasonable request if the idea of masturbation repulses you.

When it crosses the line into "I expect you as my partner not to do it, ever", that's horribly presumptuous in my eyes... and I do think you have every right to ignore that and ouright refuse to let your partner's issues become your own.

Yeah, it's okay to feel uncomfortable about a partner's masturbation, talk about it with them, or request them to do it in private. But demanding that they don't do it is simply unreasonable.

[Verocyn]

Being very very sexual, and hardly repulsed by anything, its obviously hard for me to get into this perspective - but I would imagine mutual masturbation might be a decent compromise asexuals and sexuals can have?

Masturbation is alot more fun with your partner then alone, and if me and my ex had multiple intercourses within a small timeframe, we both may be to tired to go at it again. Then it can be very nice to just cuddle while nude and both pleasuring ourselves - at the very least, the sexual could pleasure herself/himself and the asexual could just be there, cuddling.

I understand that some may see masturbation as repulsive, but I have a hard time getting my head around it. Even if I had a girlfriend who had a fetish that I found repulsive (lets say she wanted me present while going to the bathroom or something wierd like that) I would still happily do that on a weekly basis if that was really important to her - and I cant see that the repulsion of masturbation from an asexual could be that much stronger then my own repulsion to such actions.

[Verocyn]

CBC: Its quite interesting that you feel that way, and it makes me wonder if there is basically something about your pure wiering thats somewhat extremely differing from the norm. I dont mean that to be offensive, or personal in any way, but I remember seeing a documentary with some professer in California researching on how disgust has evolved in the human mind. Basically he showed the documentarymaker images created to really repulse you (older men in homosexual acts or something of that nature) and then trying to make him explain how that fealt and why he fealt that way.

Obviously our fealing of disgust is a survival mechanism to begin with, how we are programmed to be disgusted by rotten meat, dead bodies, etc. and how all our sensory functions are in tune with that (smell and vision in combination makes it disgusting) - is it possible that some aspects of anti-sexual attitudes stem from some sort of genetic mutation (only showing up 0.0x percent of the time, therefore surviving evolution by chance) that got this part wrong or exagerated to the point where you would find things that from a biological point should not be disgusting still to fall in that latter category?

Again, im not sure if this is considered offensive, im not trying to be - it just seems a possible explanation for a phenomenon that (beyond this forum) is quite rare.

I remember cleaning out my fridge after the power had been gone from it for three weeks (im somewhat lazy on house chores..) and the smell of those hamburgers, and fealing of taking them out as they had rotted made me puke - it was just awful. If that somewhat relates to how asexuals react to things like masturbation, I certainly see how it could be really hard if not impossible to endure on a regular basis.

[Guest]

Being very very sexual, and hardly repulsed by anything, its obviously hard for me to get into this perspective - but I would imagine mutual masturbation might be a decent compromise asexuals and sexuals can have?

Ugh. No. Absolutely not. Just subjectively speaking, of course - the limits are different for every ace, and there probably are quite a number for whom this would work fine and dandy - but that would be totally out of the question for me... on a hard limit/dealbreaker level.

-- TMI about how the limits would lie with me, personally --

• I'm perfectly fine with my partner (talking generally here, not just about R.) masturbating when I'm not there;
• I'd be uneasy, but certainly on a bearable level, if she did it while I'm present (it'd feel like I'm intruding on something private I shouldn't be a part of, like a peeping tom);
• I would theoretically be okay with giving her a handjob, one-sidedly, provided the conditions below are met (I've done so virtually - chat/phone - with other women before, was perfectly ok; the only reason not going down that route in my 'ship with with R. because she isn't really comfortable with the idea of virtual sex, so that form of compromise wasn't an option between us); I have serious doubt that I could get it to actually work in real life, but there is some small room for doubt that it wouldn't be outright impossible for me.

• I wouldn't be comfortable with being fully naked in front of my partner (topless yes, but not without pants);
• I would never masturbate in her presence;
• I would absolutely never tolerate her touching my genitals, or myself touch any part of her body with them. Ever. Period.

(btw... getting a bullet point list to work as intended inside spoiler tags? Pain in the ass. <_< )

[Sally]

Even if I had a girlfriend who had a fetish that I found repulsive (lets say she wanted me present while going to the bathroom or something wierd like that) I would still happily do that on a weekly basis if that was really important to her - and I cant see that the repulsion of masturbation from an asexual could be that much stronger then my own repulsion to such actions.

But true repulsion means you have mental, emotional, and very physical reactions to something, and if that's the case, I can't imagine doing something "happily". Or even doing it at all, if it wasn't necessary to save a life or something. If someone expects you to do something that's repulsive to you, then maybe the relationship needs to be rethought.

[Notte stellata]

Being very very sexual, and hardly repulsed by anything, its obviously hard for me to get into this perspective - but I would imagine mutual masturbation might be a decent compromise asexuals and sexuals can have?

Yeah, that's what me and my partner do most often. We both find manual stimulation more enjoyable than intercourse. But it doesn't work for every mixed couple (from what I've seen here, I don't think most mixed couples compromise this way). Some asexuals are very repulsed by masturbation, and some sexuals don't feel it's enough.

[< retired >]

TMI

When I got my first vibrator I didn't mention it and he became quite upset when he found out about it, and at that point I was so horny I wanted to use it at least once a day and it was a hassle to hide the whole process (long baths with some splashing ).

Do personal electronics and water mix? :o

I really don't understand what's going on in some asexual partners' heads. No sex, no open relationship, and even no masturbation? Cruel indeed. They're trying to deny their partner's sexuality, which is part of their identity.

As others have mentioned, I think the psychology here is straightforward: in these cases, the asexual may not like being reminded of his or her sexual inadequacies (as viewed from the sexual's perspective).

Many years ago I used to help my then-partner - a lovely hypersexual woman - masturbate. I thought that her raging libido was kind of cute, and that I had a responsibility to help her manage it. I suspect that she would have preferred the more conventional sexual tension release techniques. :)

[mrbeanatural]

You still have her number?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[< retired >]

You still have her number?

This woman had serious mental health issues not related to sex. You might be less excited if you knew the whole story. :)

[Nameless123]

I don't know whether I can add anything new to this topic, but speaking as the asexual partner of a sexual person I have absolutely no problem with my partner masturbating. In fact I sometimes asked him about it and was even worried when it seemed to me that he wasn't doing it often enough (whatever that really means) because he's just not that into it. I always thought it was a totally acceptable possibility of release for when I didn't want to provide it for him. I also don't mind when he gets himself off in my presence, because hey, less work for me!

Generally speaking I've never understood why some people feel like it reflects badly on the partnered sex they have when their partner is also masturbating alone. Aren't those two things different, even unrelated somewhat? They most certainly are to me. But maybe that is an asexual perspective, I don't know.