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Sexual Compromise & Support


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@ryn2 I think I did not express his ‘jokes and stuff’ clearly enough. When he gets to the topic with his friends, he talks basically from a position of a person who can’t live without sex, who consumes it and lives by it. And that is what makes it weird for me and then I assume he does not accept the fact sax is actually useless for him. Like he is covering behind all those words...

 

3 hours ago, ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

Yeah, this seems like a pretty solid observation.  But also, although my partner and I are openly communicative, I've learned that he doesn't like to dwell on one issue for very long.  I could sit here and chat for weeks.  He would have definitely moved on by now.  That's why I've developed a system of checking in roughly monthly regarding our sexuality and general love life (or lack thereof).

Well, I wish he said at least three solid sentences when we try to discuss the issue between us. He simply just does not. He is quiet and says nothing. He does not answer even to a direct question. It’s been 10 days since I tried to have the talk with him again (after a year since I promised him a year to find a working solution) and he did not come back to it even I told him it bothers me to the extend I am about to leave. His only thing he said was he did not want me to leave. And I even let him know ahead of time that I wanted to talk about it and let him decide when. I will try a letter tomorrow, maybe he will open up in a written form at least... 

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13 minutes ago, Sparkly said:

When he gets to the topic with his friends, he talks basically from a position of a person who can’t live without sex,

Yeah, this seems to be pretty normal “guy banter,” at least where I live.  There is a lot of pressure to come across as a top performer.

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21 minutes ago, Sparkly said:

I wish he said at least three solid sentences when we try to discuss the issue between us. He simply just does not. 

Not to say there isn’t a solution for this, but I never found one.  In private my partner would say nothing or get angry; in front of a counselor he would say whatever supported his position, even if it was wholly untrue, and then argue if I tried to point out the points that weren’t accurate.

 

For us this was much broader than a sexual mismatch issue, though.  We didn’t try counseling for that until he had already announced his initial intent to leave.

 

I’d have to guess that a couple who communicates well about other things and just struggles discussing sex might have better luck getting past the discomfort.

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anisotrophic
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

I’d have to guess that a couple who communicates well about other things and just struggles discussing sex might have better luck getting past the discomfort.

😕 yeah communication is pretty key

 

@Sparkly as for "could someone really not know": after learning about asexuality as something more than "not having sex", my partner and I had some pretty extensive communication about sexuality (and still do). We've been together for around 15 years, married for well over a decade, and he had a couple other sexual experiences before me (including one guy; we used to think he was bi -- not realizing a lack of preference might be lack of attraction.) I do think he/we didn't know.

 

One analogy that we came to -- and I've also seen in AVEN -- is someone knowing they're "colorblind" without having knowledge of the concept. They could be going through life knowing they're "bad at colors" and agreeing with people that something is red or green -- but based on what they've learned -- never quite realizing that they have a profoundly different experience. It took the concept of asexuality for us to realize how profoundly different our experiences were.

 

The "really didn't know" is separate to communication and I agree that it seems to be key to improving this issue in a relationship.

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TurnedTurtle

I think perhaps the principle of "you don't know what you don't know" may be a play. At least where I live, an asexual person likely grows up surrounded with a lot of heterosexual cultural programming, and thus may well have emotional/romantic attractions towards others that they might consider to be sexual attractions because they don't know any different....  Of course I am writing this as a sexual person, who feels a very strong sexual attraction to my wife, and am only just starting realize that she may not be able to relate to or understand at all the feelings I have for her! So it works both ways, I don't know what I don't know, either.

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7 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

One analogy that we came to -- and I've also seen in AVEN -- is someone knowing they're "colorblind" without having knowledge of the concept. They could be going through life knowing they're "bad at colors" and agreeing with people that something is red or green -- but based on what they've learned -- never quite realizing that they have a profoundly different experience. It took the concept of asexuality for us to realize how profoundly different our experiences were.

And with sexuality it even extends beyond that because - until you talk to someone who’s having that profoundly different experience, there often isn’t even any reason to think you are “bad at” anything.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Wood Ofthemorn
On 5/19/2019 at 11:19 AM, TurnedTurtle said:

I think perhaps the principle of "you don't know what you don't know" may be a play. At least where I live, an asexual person likely grows up surrounded with a lot of heterosexual cultural programming, and thus may well have emotional/romantic attractions towards others that they might consider to be sexual attractions because they don't know any different....  Of course I am writing this as a sexual person, who feels a very strong sexual attraction to my wife, and am only just starting realize that she may not be able to relate to or understand at all the feelings I have for her! So it works both ways, I don't know what I don't know, either.

I feel like we're in the same boat in the location!  And I agree wholeheartedly with the 'you don't know what you don't know' being at play.  My wife classifies me a someone with a 'high sex drive' (though I'd be plenty content with just 2x/week) and for the past few years, I've tended to see her has increasingly low-libido (since she seems less and less interested in sex, regardless of my best efforts to do all the right things both in and out of the bedroom).   Not having any real exposure to the concept of 'asexuality' previously, I really had no basis to understand how she tends to view the role of sex in our relationship (specifically its lack of importance).   And with her in essentially the same boat as me, but not even understanding her relative asexuality, she had no basis to understand why I view sex as such an important intimate component of our relationship. 

 

But having recently begun to suspect there was more going with our sexual disconnect, leading me to start researching what exactly it means to be 'asexual' and if this could apply to her, I just today discovered and joined this forum.  And man am I glad to have found it.  Reading through page after page  on this thread, I am finding my reality revealed with so much more clarity.   I do not know yet where this will lead (for my relationship).  But I do know I love my wife and I'm willing to compromise in order to keep this relationship.  I believe she is willing to (and has been) compromise to some extent - and up until now (through my lens of ignorance), I really felt like I was the one doing all the compromising; but I'm now starting to understand that she is compromising too...and just that basic little revelation I think bodes well for our future...even if she ultimately never adopts the label of asexual.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am struggling and its something I cant post in public. And I cant talk to anyone IRL about it. This really sucks. I wish I had never started feeling sexual anything. Its ruining everything. 

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49 minutes ago, Serran said:

I am struggling and its something I cant post in public. And I cant talk to anyone IRL about it. This really sucks. I wish I had never started feeling sexual anything. Its ruining everything. 

Can you change things enough that the situation isn't easily recognizable?   I've changed a bunch of details on things I post intentionally so  that even someone who knows me wouldn't recognize me here.   The ideas / situations are parallel, so they are still a way to get advice.

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Just now, uhtred said:

Can you change things enough that the situation isn't easily recognizable?   I've changed a bunch of details on things I post intentionally so  that even someone who knows me wouldn't recognize me here.   The ideas / situations are parallel, so they are still a way to get advice.

 

My partner is an AVEN user. So dont really want to air our dirty laundry in public on her. 

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4 minutes ago, Serran said:

 

My partner is an AVEN user. So dont really want to air our dirty laundry in public on her. 

Sorry, I didn't know that.   If you have your own private account here you can PM if you like. 

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4 hours ago, Serran said:

I am struggling and its something I cant post in public. And I cant talk to anyone IRL about it. This really sucks. I wish I had never started feeling sexual anything. Its ruining everything. 

*hugs*

 

I’m so sorry.

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Geekgoddess

When I first met my wife, I was strictly asexual. As we dated and the relationship progressed, I became demisexual as I had begun to love her and make compromises for her. We have now been married for a year now and I am extremely unhappy. Somewhere between the infidelity, domestic violence and lies, I began to fall out of love with her. We are now separated but we every now and then experience waves of happiness but they don't last long. We have been married for a year and I haven't received any of the benefits of the marriage. I still love at home with my parents and she is doing nothing to put a ring on my finger nor put a roof over my head. Even though we are married, I feel like I am still fighting for a spot in her life, and for that reason, I feel no connection to her or anyone for that matter. I don't even know if I believe in love anymore. I am confused. I am not sure whether I am considered as demisexual or asexual now. 

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Making compromises for your s/o doesn't make you not asexual.  If you actually started feeling sexual desire, then I would say demisexual sounds right.  But if you were having sex just for your partner that doesn't suddenly take away your ace identity.  I have sex with my ace and he is still very much ace.

 

That aside, you have bigger issues here.  It sounds like your wife is manipulative.  Now I don't know the whole story, but if there is violence and cheating and sexual coercion, get the heck out of that marriage.  Fast.

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Have made plans to have an imtimate encounter with my spouse today. Feeling a bit nervous that its going to go wrong. We both really need it to go right...

 

Still feeling like I wish sex was a thing that never existed. 

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10 hours ago, Serran said:

We both really need it to go right...

Wishing for you it goes as hoped, but try to remove all expectations for the best outcome.  Here’s to actually having scheduled the time!  That’s both good and clearly important. 

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18 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Wishing you it goes as hoped, but try to remove all expectations for the best outcome.  Here’s to actually having scheduled the time!  That’s both good and clearly important. 

Honestly, I just want to be able to do this without breaking down crying. If I focus too much on the negative, I very likely may. 

 

And the sad part is neither of us is ace. We both have desire. Hers is just having a block from external sources when it comes to directing it towards me. 

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I'm not going to go into details of what the issues are, for my partner's privacy. But, I feel like posting my own emotional discoveries from this whole mess. 

 

I finally understand the deep, soul crunching rejection that can exist around sexual intimacy. I still don't mind giving it up completely, but only under specific circumstances. If it feels like being rejected, I don't think I could take it. So, it would need to be a loss of libido situation. 

 

I finally get the stupid excitement that comes from being desired. My wife for the first time ever asked me for sex twice in a day and in every other relationship that would have driven me insane, being annoyed, not wanting to.. but with her it actually made me feel... giddy? I felt genuinely desired, not just a luke warm agreement from discussing it a day or three before (which has thus far been our sexual interactions, as nice as they are, it feels a bit clinical), but a spontaneous lets do this cause I want you. And I enjoyed that feeling. And she said she wouldn't want anything the next day cause twice is a lot for her, but when we were cuddling the next day it was .. well, very obvious she had gotten aroused (my wife is MtF so still has certain parts, she gave me permission to say that on AVEN) and I liked it. I always used to avoid physical intimacy with past partners cause I wanted to avoid just that reaction. 

 

I am still trying to figure out sexuality. It is quite new as an experience for me, honestly. And I think she is too, given we are each others firsts as far as sexual desire goes. I guess I have the benefit against discovering it as a teen in that Im older, more experienced and able to introspect a lot better. But, it is still weird and confusing. And the issue we are having is muddling me up even more. Gah. 

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Umm. I doubt it. Like... I experienced it and it still doesnt make much sense. Its just an emotional reaction and if you havent experienced it, no amount of explaining will likely help.

 

And knowing your partner doesnt want you isnt personal, it just isnt their natural impulse doesnt really help so trying to explain that side is ineffective. 

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Winged Whisperer
On 5/19/2019 at 3:30 AM, ryn2 said:

Most, if not all, of the successful mixed relationships people describe here are between couples who communicate well.

I don't know why, but this rubbed me off the wrong way and I felt like I needed to speak out. While I both agree theoretically and in practice that this is what happens, couples that do communicate well are successful and this goes well beyond the sexual component of relationships too, I feel a bit I dunno, accused? Like people are pointing their finger at me for not communicating well, but communication is itself complex and influenced by loads of different factors. My attempt at communicating my asexuality was met with denial, anger, hate and rage. So yeah my lesson was learned, don't "be" asexual. Now when I'm asked if I'm enjoying sex, if I want it, what am I supposed to say? I shrug and don't speak much, because that's what I've learned to do to cope. My point is, "git gud" at communication isn't really an available solution all the times. (And yes I'm super jealous of y'all that are in very successful mixed relationships with good communication)

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Winged Whisperer
25 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I really didn't read it like that - I read it that communication takes two people, and mixed relationships need both people to be at least trying to communicated positively. If one isn't, then the other isn't to blame. 

Definitely, it's more of my gut reaction than a straight and logical reading of it.

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Yeah, I didn’t scroll back to read it in context but my normal thought on the matter is that (while of course it’s ideal to have none) most relationships can weather one long-term, significant stressor... but as the long-term, significant stressors pile up the relationship is more and more likely to fail.  That’s even true with just (“just”?) two significant stressors.

 

A lack of good, effective two-way communication (whether that be one poor communicator, two poor communicators, or two great communicators who for whatever reason can’t or won’t successfully reach one another) is a long-term, significant stressor in any relationship.

 

A sexual mismatch (orientation, libido, even preferences) is a long-term, significant stressor in a relationship.

 

Both together makes it more likely the relationship will fail.

 

It’s not necessarily a question of fault/blame.

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2 hours ago, Winged Whisperer said:

My point is, "git gud" at communication isn't really an available solution all the times.

I don’t think getting better at communicating (where that’s possible) solves the mixed relationship issue; just that where communication is also a problem, any effective resolution is less likely.

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On 7/15/2019 at 6:30 AM, Winged Whisperer said:

I don't know why, but this rubbed me off the wrong way and I felt like I needed to speak out. While I both agree theoretically and in practice that this is what happens, couples that do communicate well are successful and this goes well beyond the sexual component of relationships too, I feel a bit I dunno, accused? Like people are pointing their finger at me for not communicating well, but communication is itself complex and influenced by loads of different factors. My attempt at communicating my asexuality was met with denial, anger, hate and rage. So yeah my lesson was learned, don't "be" asexual. Now when I'm asked if I'm enjoying sex, if I want it, what am I supposed to say? I shrug and don't speak much, because that's what I've learned to do to cope. My point is, "git gud" at communication isn't really an available solution all the times. (And yes I'm super jealous of y'all that are in very successful mixed relationships with good communication)

I think its more a case that communication is necessary but not sufficient.  Some couples may communicate well but there is still no reasonable compromise. 

 

There is also probably an effect that when the gulf is too wide, even communication is difficult.  If for one person sex is almost synonymous with love and romance, and for the other is is a disgusting activity, they can't even really communicate. 

 

In the end I think many people would be happier if they accepted that these mixed relationships sometimes don't work - no matter how hard both people try. 

 

 

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anisotrophic
39 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Well, they're no more likely to work than if a straight person was with a gay person. So ... not very.

But then my sex change might help! 😂

 

I do think it's like that. People coming out in a relationship should be aware it is, unfortunately, a similarly bfd.

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6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Well, they're no more likely to work than if a straight person was with a gay person. So ... not very.

Hmm. I think it is different. Maybe not enough for all relationships, but enough for some. 

 

The thing is when a gay person comes out, it isn't just I don't want you. It is I don't want you, but I want others. 

 

And I know for me... wanting others over me is the worst feeling in the world. Not wanting me, OK, I can at least take comfort in no one is wanted. Which, doesn't solve the issue for a lot of sexuals. But, I would be OK with I want no one. The I want others not you... yeah, no. 

 

So there is more hope for ace/sexual than gay/straight. Since there are no other people in the scenario. So makes it easier for some. 

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

For me, the important point is that the element that makes a marriage-type relationship uniquely intimate - being sexually desired - has been removed because of one partner's orientation. In both cases, something viscerally important is fundamentally, structurally, permanently absent. 

And you can flip  that: the element that would make a marriage relationship uniquely intimate for me as an asexual would be for sex to be removed from the relationship and intimacy be achieved emotionally, not sexually.  Because if sex is wanted by my partner, something viscerally important to me -- freedom from sex -- is fundamentally absent.  

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Winged Whisperer
4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

being sexually desired - has been removed because of one partner's orientation

How can the sexual even know if they're being sexually desired or not because of the asexual's orientation? All it takes is a couple of lies and acting and voila the sexual won't notice!

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Winged Whisperer
3 minutes ago, CBC said:

 Was your comment serious, or was it sarcasm? I took it seriously at first and was part way through writing a response about an hour ago, and then I concluded it must be meant jokingly.

No I was serious.

 

9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If you've been with a sexual person, there's a difference, and it's unmissable.

And what if they haven't?

 

And like, it depends right? While true a lot of the stories on here involve the sex being "off", it's also true that judging by the stories, most of the asexuals weren't really willing to put in much effort on the whole "lying and acting" part either.

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Winged Whisperer
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

but not have the point of comparison, I think.

I think that point of comparison would be very important.

 

5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Think of it this way - they're trying to portray something which they have no idea of how it feels, how most people act during it, how to read their partner's responses, how sexual activities progress, or what their partner is expecting to see in their behaviour. And they're doing it in a very intimate setting, with someone who knows them well, who's acutely aware of every nuance of their body language and unconscious signals. They'd have to do it several times a week for years.

How it feels is irrelevant I think because it's inside your mind. An asexual could know how most people act during it and they could read their partner's responses pretty easily too, and again this is all behavior which is distinct from orientation. An asexual can adopt the behavioral patterns of a sexual, just as I assume a heterosexual could adopt the behavioral patterns of a homosexual if they wanted to and put some effort in. As for the several times a week... yeah that's an obstacle, fortunately for me at least my partner has relatively low libido and coupled in with some push back by me, we have sex 1-3 times a month which is more bearable... and now that I think about it yeah I probably couldn't do it several times a week either.

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