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Sexual Compromise & Support


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Hi, @ZiggyC!  Welcome to AVEN! There are a number of other posters here in similar situations; hopefully their advice will be helpful for you.  On the plus side it does sound like you and your wife are both trying to approach this in a positive way - no blame, loving relationship overall, trying to work towards improvement...

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15 hours ago, ZiggyC said:

Hi All!

 

i joined this forum because I believe my wife is asexual. We have been together for 9 years, and the first 2 years we had a good sex life (1-2 times a week). Beyond the lack of sex our relationship is wonderful. She is my best friend and we cuddle and have tons of fun together. Then my wife’s Dad got very sick and passed away, we went travelling for 4 months, came home she went to cooking school. At first I thought we weren’t having sex because she was mourning and then we were travelling, then school. In reality, I think we both thought life was just really busy. But by year 3 we very rarely had sex anymore.

Deep down I knew, I really knew on our wedding night, when she didn’t want to have sex. 

In the last 4 years I have made love to her 2 times and she has not made love to me. (We are lesbians) I have spoken to her a bunch of times, she feels bad and like something is wrong with her, but doesn’t want sex.

I want to support her and never pressure her. A few days ago I made a little flirty pass and she pulled away, and she felt bad. I comforted her and for the first time told her I thought she could be asexual. That I knew that her lack of sex drive had nothing to do with me, so not to feel guilty there.

However, I am heartbroken. It hit me today that I may never be intimate again. I have not had sex in 4 years and I feel so cheated, I know my wife didn’t know she was asexual, but I married her thinking we would have some intimacy. I would be thrilled to make love once a year, to feel connected and desired. 

I so love her and I know she loves me, I don’t want to sleep with anyone else, but I have given up hope  that she will want to be with me sexually.

I want to support her and make her feel loved and safe, but what about my needs? We go on dates and cuddle so there is romance and connection there, but I so so miss the connection you experience during sex. 

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you!

There is no "fault" but sex is vital for the happiness of some people, and in some cases a sexual / asexual relationship just can't work.   You need to figure out what level of sexual activity and what level of being sexually desired (a different thing) is enough to keep you happy. Then see if she can also be happy at that level. If there is no overlap, then I think divorce is the right answer.  Its no different that someone discovering that they are gay after getting married. 

 

I see no reason to stay in a relationship where one or both people are constantly unhappy. 

 

I'm in a marginal mixed relationship - there is just barely enough overlap, but its been a constant struggle for 30 years. I wouldn't recommend that to others. 

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30 minutes ago, uhtred said:

You need to figure out what level of sexual activity and what level of being sexually desired (a different thing) is enough to keep you happy. Then see if she can also be happy at that level.

Also keep in mind that, by definition, the level of desiring anyone sexually an ace partner can provide is zero.  That part isn’t really something anyone can compromise/meet in the middle on, because it’s something you feel (or don’t) rather than something you do.

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On 4/29/2019 at 4:01 PM, arani86 said:

...I've personally experienced too much discrimination at the hands of authority figures or medical staff to trust any of them implicitly, and when they are white I find it's even worse. Not every white cop or doctor is out to get me, but enough of them exist that don't care if I live or die that I don't want to risk it. If a doctor is black, or at least PoC, I feel like they're more likely to view me as a human being...

My quick apologizes to everyone for a brief derail of the thread, but I just wanted to discuss this, as I don't come across many other people who seem to have also noticed that they are treated better by POC than white people, in general, offline.

 

Yes. I've grown up noticing that, throughout my life, POC nurses, teachers and customers at my grocery store job showed more concern for me when I was injured and empathy and politeness for me at my job (they were the only two customers who decided to tip me, too), whereas the white teachers, nurses, doctors, and customers would either speak to me as though they didn't care about showing politeness to me; just looked and acted nonchalant, as though they didn't care (even white school staff and the principal, saying to each other that they thought I didn't need an ambulance called after I'd collapsed in elementary school and had been unconscious outside, due to heat exhaustion during a school fire drill), etc.

 

I've been puzzled and surprised all my life why it seemed like most white people I'd met or come across acted like that toward me (yet, I'd see them act with a lot more enthusiasm, politeness and friendliness toward other white people, who happened to have lighter skin and, generally, blond/light brown hair, as though they cared more about their white friends and other white people), especially since my family said we were white (but, for my relatives on my mother's side of the family, including me, have been asked by others whether we were POC, Asian or Latinx).

 

My only guess is that, due to my olive skin and dark hair, many white people treat me differently because they're assuming I'm a POC.

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anisotrophic

@ZiggyC welcome! the realization of permanence is a terrible one, I'm sorry. :( although you don't feel attracted to anyone else right now, it could happen -- life is long, and maybe your partner would want this for you -- my suggestion is that it's worth having a discussion now about how she feels about the possibility of you being intimate with others. (I think the conversation is a lot easier when it's planning for the future, rather than a heat-of-the-moment pressure.)

But also, as others said, do think seriously about whether you should continue in the relationship. It sounds like a large gap, larger than I live with. 9 years probably feels like a lot, but I expect there are many more years than that in front of you.

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9 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

My quick apologizes to everyone for a brief derail of the thread, but I just wanted to discuss this, as I don't come across many other people who seem to have also noticed that they are treated better by POC than white people, in general, offline.

 

Yes. I've grown up noticing that, throughout my life, POC nurses, teachers and customers at my grocery store job showed more concern for me when I was injured and empathy and politeness for me at my job (they were the only two customers who decided to tip me, too), whereas the white teachers, nurses, doctors, and customers would either speak to me as though they didn't care about showing politeness to me; just looked and acted nonchalant, as though they didn't care (even white school staff and the principal, saying to each other that they thought I didn't need an ambulance called after I'd collapsed in elementary school and had been unconscious outside, due to heat exhaustion during a school fire drill), etc.

 

I've been puzzled and surprised all my life why it seemed like most white people I'd met or come across acted like that toward me (yet, I'd see them act with a lot more enthusiasm, politeness and friendliness toward other white people, who happened to have lighter skin and, generally, blond/light brown hair, as though they cared more about their white friends and other white people), especially since my family said we were white (but, for my relatives on my mother's side of the family, including me, have been asked by others whether we were POC, Asian or Latinx).

 

My only guess is that, due to my olive skin and dark hair, many white people treat me differently because they're assuming I'm a POC.

LOL it's like you're POC passing! Then again, a lot of white passing POC have pretended to be white for enough generations that the family lore completely forgets their actual roots. You may want to consider genetic testing if you're really curious! I don't know where you're family is from, but basically everyone with significant family history from the south east US is at least a portion Black and a portion Cherokee. But regardless, whiteness is a social construct, so it's possible you get somewhat less white privilege extended to you when people assume you're POC. 

SIDENOTE: People always use the term olive skinned to refer to slightly darker caucasion complexions, but this is weird to me because olives are either green - which people aren't, or black, or very very dark brown. I wonder if the term olive skinned used to mean dark skinned, but the meaning changed over time with the white washing of history to make black and brown historical figures seem more white. 

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On 5/1/2019 at 6:17 PM, ZiggyC said:

Hi All!

 

i joined this forum because I believe my wife is asexual. We have been together for 9 years, and the first 2 years we had a good sex life (1-2 times a week). Beyond the lack of sex our relationship is wonderful. She is my best friend and we cuddle and have tons of fun together. Then my wife’s Dad got very sick and passed away, we went travelling for 4 months, came home she went to cooking school. At first I thought we weren’t having sex because she was mourning and then we were travelling, then school. In reality, I think we both thought life was just really busy. But by year 3 we very rarely had sex anymore.

Deep down I knew, I really knew on our wedding night, when she didn’t want to have sex. 

In the last 4 years I have made love to her 2 times and she has not made love to me. (We are lesbians) I have spoken to her a bunch of times, she feels bad and like something is wrong with her, but doesn’t want sex.

I want to support her and never pressure her. A few days ago I made a little flirty pass and she pulled away, and she felt bad. I comforted her and for the first time told her I thought she could be asexual. That I knew that her lack of sex drive had nothing to do with me, so not to feel guilty there.

However, I am heartbroken. It hit me today that I may never be intimate again. I have not had sex in 4 years and I feel so cheated, I know my wife didn’t know she was asexual, but I married her thinking we would have some intimacy. I would be thrilled to make love once a year, to feel connected and desired. 

I so love her and I know she loves me, I don’t want to sleep with anyone else, but I have given up hope  that she will want to be with me sexually.

I want to support her and make her feel loved and safe, but what about my needs? We go on dates and cuddle so there is romance and connection there, but I so so miss the connection you experience during sex. 

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you!

So, I don't know if this will help in your situation, but I've noticed that the less pressure I feel about sex the more likely I am to be open to it. I mean, this is probably true on some level for all humans, but I think for asexual people in relationships with allosexual people it's even more important. It sounds like you don't pressure your wife, but there is a chance she still feels pressure - and that pressure could be coming from something you don't even know your doing, or it could be coming from her own guilt over the issue. One thing I've been thinking of trying in my own relationship is making a short term celibacy agreement. Like, for one month, no sex no matter what. Even if you know you probably won't because you're not having sex anyway it seems, it might feel different for her if sex isn't even on the table. If she's putting pressure on herself, or experiencing guilt about it that's making it harder, making sex actually against the rules for a time this could lift the pressure and help her process some of those issues that might be coming from an internal place. If she resolves those things (if they exist) then maybe sexual compromise might be more of a feasible option for her. 

However it works out, I think it's really awesome that you're being such a supportive partner. 

For your own needs, maybe you could figure out some things that increase intimacy without sex, for the time being at least. There also might be things that feel sexual for you but just feel sensual and intimate to her. I don't know if you're into Kink, but I know allosexuals who feel like they get more out of a scene that might not even contain sex than they do out of vanilla sex. Just a thought. 

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n

1 hour ago, arani86 said:

It sounds like you don't pressure your wife, but there is a chance she still feels pressure.  

I doubt if there's a situation where an asexual partner doesn't feel pressure, simply because they know that their sexual partner wants sex.  That's enough to cause pressure, even though the sexual is being kind and thoughtful.  

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anisotrophic
4 hours ago, Sally said:

n

I doubt if there's a situation where an asexual partner doesn't feel pressure, simply because they know that their sexual partner wants sex.  That's enough to cause pressure, even though the sexual is being kind and thoughtful.  

Well, I was pretty excited about my celibacy experiment...! Ruined, he totally ruined it. 🤦‍♀️

 

(and I've become really reluctant to have sex because my partner doesn't want it. A repulsion on top of my desire: I get upset and it seems he needs to reassure me that it's ok to have sex. Fully appreciating how weird it is, doesn't seem sustainable/stable...)

 

But @ZiggyC described a nearly sexless state as the current status (two one-sided incidents in four years), so while @arani86's advice is generally good I'm skeptical that it's possible to reduce pressure further given this state. 😕

 

The prospect of never experiencing intimacy with anyone ever again -- that's a terrible new feeling to have -- personally, I don't think that's a sacrifice a sexual should try to make (and maybe can't) & hence recommend a poly/open conversation.

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2 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

Well, I was pretty excited about my celibacy experiment...! Ruined, he totally ruined it. 🤦‍♀️

 

(and I've become really reluctant to have sex because my partner doesn't want it. A repulsion on top of my desire: I get upset and it seems he needs to reassure me that it's ok to have sex. Fully appreciating how weird that is, doesn't seem sustainable/stable...)

 

But @ZiggyC described a nearly sexless state as the current status (two one-sided incidents in four years), so while @arani86's advice is generally good I'm skeptical that it's possible to reduce pressure further given this state. 😕

 

The prospect of never experiencing intimacy with anyone ever again -- that's a terrible new feeling to have -- personally, I don't think that's a sacrifice a sexual should try to make (and maybe can't) & hence recommend a poly/open conversation.

Talking about it, being asked for it, etc is still pressure and can ruin a day just as much as having sex ... and make you less into the idea of having it. A truly sexless state would be it not coming up. 

 

But yeah, dont know if that will help in the situation. Seems like the partner just isnt OK with sex. 

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anisotrophic

Tangent, but it's a general thread: in our relationship, when I feel desire now... I feel like I'm hungry, but upset by the idea of eating.

 

I guess that worries him and he feels bad for me. And it's why I think I might happier just avoiding sex, focusing on other things as best I can. It's all gotten backwards.

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4 hours ago, Sally said:

I doubt if there's a situation where an asexual partner doesn't feel pressure, simply because they know that their sexual partner wants sex.  That's enough to cause pressure, even though the sexual is being kind and thoughtful.  

 

41 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I'm skeptical that it's possible to reduce pressure further given this state.

Both of these things can be true, since the pressure sometimes isn’t coming from anything the sexual is doing (beyond existing).

 

The ace might be able to work in therapy on letting go of unproductive guilt but I don’t know if that would really help in this kind of situation.

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14 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

when I feel desire now... I feel like I'm hungry, but upset by the idea of eating.

As someone who was punished as a child for masturbating and who has battled an eating disorder I 100% relate to this.  It’s not a fun way to feel.

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8 hours ago, ryn2 said:

 

Both of these things can be true, since the pressure sometimes isn’t coming from anything the sexual is doing (beyond existing).

 

The ace might be able to work in therapy on letting go of unproductive guilt but I don’t know if that would really help in this kind of situation.

It wouldn't, not really, because often the pressure isn't from guilt.  It's from the idea that someone is wanting you to do something that you really don't want to do -- and in fact, they're wanting you to be something you're not.  

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Or, conversely, you’re wanting to be someone you’re not in order to be better suited to them.

 

Same issue, though.

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Radest Unicorn

I’m ace and my partner is very hyper sexual. We’ve recently had a conversation about compromise. Reading these comments have really helped me to understand my feelings as well as some of the things he may be feeling. I’m so happy I found AVEN

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, I follow this forum on and off but I finally registered and want to be active since things reached the critical stage in my relationship. I am a woman and sexual. My husband is asexual. After years and years (15) addressing the incompatibility between us, I just don’t know what other option than leaving I have. We’ve tried million times but our compromise always turns into my compromise when we have zero intimacy. Last year we had a talk and both agreed to divorce if we don’t find a working compromise. A year later, now, we are still on the zero satisfaction and 100% frustration on my side. We have three kids so just packing and leaving is not that easy but at this level more than possible. Now he keeps saying he does not want me to leave but within last 15 years he was proving on and on that he is not capable of compromising :(. Of course the whole situation makes me feel bad because in the end I will

be the one who is breaking the family :(. Anybody having any insight? Advice? Thank you

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Anthracite_Impreza

@Sparkly I'm ace, but I want you to know this isn't your fault. You're clearly miserable and the two of you are simply incompatible. No one is at fault, it's just one of those things.

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anisotrophic

@Sparkly buncha dumb questions: does he identify as ace? do you talk much about the topic? (or does he shut you down?) has he or you or both tried therapy about this? (or rejected the idea? Not saying it'll do magic, but it's also one rough indicator of willingness to improve/change a situation.) Where is he on open/poly, and you? I think it's right to want out if you feel unloved or neglected. (I have kids too.)

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I know none of us opted for our (a)sexuality. I am just heartbroken that we are just not capable to find a happy

medium. It feels like we (well, I) either will say bye to any intimacy what so ever or break up. He is a nice person but is absolutely ignoring my needs. And that is a choice :(. And that hurts more than not being intimate. 

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@anisotrophic After like 12 years he finally admitted sex was never his thing. We tried therapies but any chance for excuse he gets, he is done trying. And after all those years I just feel so done. We had countless of talks but it is more of a monologue from my side. He always

promises more effort and then, after a couple weeks, it all dies. It is either me doing everything intimacy related or nobody :(. I am so exhausted after all those years that I actually feel like I don’t even want to try anymore. I want to have sex and intimacy but not with him anymore :(. 

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anisotrophic
32 minutes ago, Sparkly said:

@anisotrophic After like 12 years he finally admitted sex was never his thing. We tried therapies but any chance for excuse he gets, he is done trying. And after all those years I just feel so done. We had countless of talks but it is more of a monologue from my side. He always

promises more effort and then, after a couple weeks, it all dies. It is either me doing everything intimacy related or nobody :(. I am so exhausted after all those years that I actually feel like I don’t even want to try anymore. I want to have sex and intimacy but not with him anymore :(. 

I guess for us our approach changed dramatically when we learned about asexuality (which is why I asked about that), because our understanding changed: it wasn't a choice he could make or negligence, it was something he couldn't change about himself. He also realized that I was experiencing something very different to his own experience. We worked with LGBTQIA+ therapists with the context of asexuality. He's also become more supportive of me someday having someone that does desire me sexually (which is why I asked about open/poly). I think it's very normal and reasonable to cease feeling desire for someone that can't desire you back.

I think if one can't find an approach where both partners feel loved for who they are -- and their sexuality is part of who they are -- then it makes sense to look into parting ways.

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2 hours ago, Sparkly said:

Hi, I follow this forum on and off but I finally registered and want to be active since things reached the critical stage in my relationship. I am a woman and sexual. My husband is asexual. After years and years (15) addressing the incompatibility between us, I just don’t know what other option than leaving I have. We’ve tried million times but our compromise always turns into my compromise when we have zero intimacy. Last year we had a talk and both agreed to divorce if we don’t find a working compromise. A year later, now, we are still on the zero satisfaction and 100% frustration on my side. We have three kids so just packing and leaving is not that easy but at this level more than possible. Now he keeps saying he does not want me to leave but within last 15 years he was proving on and on that he is not capable of compromising :(. Of course the whole situation makes me feel bad because in the end I will

be the one who is breaking the family :(. Anybody having any insight? Advice? Thank you

I think you, and probably he would be happier divorced. It doesn't have to be hostile.   I also think your children would be better.  The second may sound strange but children pick things up.   I grew up with parents who had not physical interest in each other - and it colored my idea of what typical "loving" relationships were like for many years.  The kept describing what they had as "love", when at least in their case it was nothing of the sort.   Children might be happy with happy ace parents, but not with parents whose relationship was constantly strained due to a bad sexual mismatch .

 

This is very unlikely to ever get better.  You talked about divorcing if you didn't find an answer, and you didn't find one.

 

He doesn't want you to leave, but he is unable to provide what you need to be happy.  BTW, from experience don't pay any attention to a short term improvement when you say you are leaving - it won't last (even if he honestly thinks it will)

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@uhtred yes, that is my worry that we will try to compromise again and it will turn into solely my compromise again. As always. I understand he does not miss anything in our relationship, he has it all (according to his words) but is not able to see things from my perspective. And also I don’t have any desire of mechanical sex when I feel he wants to be done with it. It has zero benefit for me, it feels humiliating. 

@anisotrophic I need deeper connection with somebody I would sleep with. I just can’t hop on anybody and feel satisfied. So open marriage will either give me zero satisfaction or I will develop feelings for the other man. 

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anisotrophic

@Sparkly yeah, that's normal too -- which is why I mentioned poly. I'm probably that way. Sometimes people can manage to love more than one person, sometimes they can't. (It feels really weird...) And sometimes people feel hurt by another partner, and sometimes it's ok. So far my partner has not been very upset when I fell in love with another, so that's lucky for me...

 

Not everyone gives a gives a green light. I think it's legit ok to say "I'm going to date other people, divorce or stay together". If you've tried other things and done trying, you can lay those options out.

 

@Traveler40 found a lover, she has an ongoing thread somewhere...

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1 hour ago, Sparkly said:

I will develop feelings for the other man. 

Agreed with @anisotrophic... if you are poly, and your existing partner is poly or poly-friendly, this is both expected and not an insurmountable problem.  It’s when you are mono - so developing feelings for a new partner means losing feelings for your existing partner - that it’s not workable.

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Traveler40
1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

@Traveler40 found a lover, she has an ongoing thread somewhere...

The thread is here:

 

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/161076-sexual-wifeasexual-husband-truce/

 

 

44 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

...It’s when you are mono - so developing feelings for a new partner means losing feelings for your existing partner - that it’s not workable.

I completely disagree with this.  I am mono who’s found a way to work with it.  My options were split up the family or find a way.  It’s less than ideal, but I am doing it rather successfully so far FWIW.

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4 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

I completely disagree with this.  I am mono who’s found a way to work with it.  My options were split up the family or find a way.  It’s less than ideal, but I am doing it rather successfully so far FWIW.

I probably should be more specific about what I meant by “unworkable.”

 

If the goal is to maintain a romantic relationship with the original partner, but you’re mono and falling in love with a new partner means falling out of love with the first one, that’s not going to work.

 

If the goal is to preserve other things about the original relationship - to move the breakup to a more suitable time, to continue living somewhere you can’t alone, to finish out a shared responsibility to children, elderly parents, etc. - without also sustaining the romantic relationship, sure, it can work fine.

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Traveler40
18 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

If the goal is to preserve other things about the original relationship - to move the breakup to a more suitable time, to continue living somewhere you can’t alone, to finish out a shared responsibility to children, elderly parents, etc. - without also sustaining the romantic relationship, sure, it can work fine.

At least in my case, the romance with and for my husband died ages ago.  When a partner doesn’t commit to meeting needs (even a fraction of the way) then the slow drip eventually works it’s way to the foundation.  The fallout from that is real and happens to BOTH partners.

 

With that said, I love and deeply respect my husband. He is a good man and a great father.  He’s a partner in many ways, but romance and intimacy aren’t part of what he contributes.

 

Edit: So yes, I see what you’re saying.  What happens when the kids fly the coop?  I don’t know.  A life entwined is a funny thing.  If my partners look then the way they look now, I likely will change the course of my life.

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7 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

At least in my case, the romance with and for my husband died ages ago.  When a partner doesn’t commit to meeting needs (even a fraction of the way) then the slow drip eventually works it’s way to the foundation.  The fallout from that is real and happens to BOTH partners.

 

With that said, I love and deeply respect my husband. He is a good man and a great father.  He’s a partner in many ways, but romance and intimacy aren’t part of what he contributes.

 

Edit: So yes, I see what you’re saying.  What happens when the kids fly the coop?  I don’t know.  A life entwined is a funny thing.  If my partners look then the way they look now, I likely will change the course of my life.

That sounds to me more like you "broke up" and changed the marriage to friendship without changing title or living arrangements?

 

Which isnt exactly the same as poly - multiple loves in the romantic / sexual sense, which is more what ryn was referencing doesnt work for monos. 

 

10 hours ago, Sparkly said:

@uhtred yes, that is my worry that we will try to compromise again and it will turn into solely my compromise again. As always. I understand he does not miss anything in our relationship, he has it all (according to his words) but is not able to see things from my perspective. And also I don’t have any desire of mechanical sex when I feel he wants to be done with it. It has zero benefit for me, it feels humiliating. 

 

Well. If he is ace it isnt as much ignoring your needs as you likely have differing needs. When I dated (and was married) to people with no sexual attraction to them it was tiring trying to remember to do sex things. Compromises can fall away just because you are trying to actively remind yourself to be what you arent for your detriment and partner's gain. I work special needs education now and running 7.65 miles in a day chasing after students, lifting them, being hit and punched and screamed at daily is actually less tiring than just having to have sex I didnt want daily. *shrug* So if he would feel that way about frequent sex, seeing things from your perspective wouldn't help, anymore than you seeing things from his could make you not want more. 

 

Of course, I am now married to someone I am attracted to that way. So sex stuff is easy now and adds to our relationship. So, I get wanting that instead of it being this big chore. 

 

As a kid of divorced parents, I personally think staying for the kids is always an awful choice.  Kids notice their parents arent happy. And their mom (or dad if close to them, but using mom here for this case) being happy is something they care about. A lot of students tell you they saw mom crying or whatever, but she doesnt know they saw. And it changes their behavior remarkably. A fight at school or bad grade can simply be down to their parent is miserable and they feel bad over it. 

 

So if you are miserable and cant get it to work, no shame in breaking it up. Two happy single parents is better than two miserable together ones. 

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